View Full Version : Flat Cables not safe????
whynot83706
07-06-08, 06:33 PM
I had a service call (3 hours late) since my dish moved and DirecTV installer removed flat cables because DTV told them flat cables are not safe any more (fire hazard) and now I cant close my balcony.
Is this really case or???
NYCEGUY01
07-06-08, 06:40 PM
They are no longer an approved material. Not because of fire but because they are a major cause of problems.
Once the window or door gets opened and closed 1 too many times they are dead and will no longer pass signal.
All DTV techs have been advised not to use them anymore under any circumstances.
I have had 2 or 3 svc calls in the last 2 months where a flat cable was at fault and the customers got the same offer each time. I will drill a hole and run the cable through it and install a proper wallplate for FREE or you will have to replace the flatcables with some purchased by the customer.
All have declined the hole drilling and I instructed them where they could purchase some locally.
He shouldnt have taken your cables but he apparently was told to get rid of them he just went about it the wrong way.
joe diamond
07-06-08, 06:51 PM
Why do they have to lie?
There is no fire issue...Anybody cite just one!.......The flat cable is just prone to dings. They fail when hit by doors etc.
My experiences with HSPs = if the customer calls for an ETA they always lie; "running late" truck broken" or "called in sick".....and a few others. They never say we double booked that route so someone will get there, just deal with the first guy and tell the next tech to move on.
The flat cable is one little problem. There are many installs out there with a 5LNB dish and something other that a WB6x8........."just tell them something..we don't have the right switch today.......hit the road!"
Joe
houskamp
07-06-08, 06:56 PM
maybe not fire but a shorted cable could smoke a reciever..
NYCEGUY01
07-06-08, 07:01 PM
Im on your side with why do they lie.
The problem is that untill DTV gets that HSP back up and running correctly this will continue. The tech was probably told they were a fire hazard by his sup.
His HSP is Ironwood and there are many changes happening very soon. Starting on 7-8-08 DTV takes control of them completely. They are even throwing a Welcome party at all the locations. lol
There has been some pretty drastic changes at some locations allready like site managers and other supervisors " moving on "
whynot83706
07-06-08, 07:12 PM
maybe not fire but a shorted cable could smoke a reciever..
So where can I get flat cables, because if the cables are not fire hazard I really don't understand why he had to tell me that bs.... acording to him it was DTV who told them it was fire hazzard.... Also I just realized he removed ground wire when he was moving antena and he never placed it back.
NYCEGUY01
07-06-08, 07:25 PM
online, circuit city, bestbuy, etc...
litzdog911
07-06-08, 08:59 PM
So where can I get flat cables, because if the cables are not fire hazard I really don't understand why he had to tell me that bs.... acording to him it was DTV who told them it was fire hazzard.... Also I just realized he removed ground wire when he was moving antena and he never placed it back.
http://www.solidsignal.com has them.
Radio Enginerd
07-06-08, 09:05 PM
I had no idea flat cables existed. Wow, very cool.
NYCEGUY01
07-06-08, 09:08 PM
As far as Dtv is concerned anymore they dont. lol
Funny, I just had a directv installer replace mine 5 days ago. They did say though that they would not use the sliding door but the side that doesn't move.
spartanstew
07-06-08, 10:07 PM
Why do they have to lie?
Why do people have to throw out that accusation all the time??
How do you know he lied? Do you know for a fact that he knew it was supposed to be removed because they damage too easily and instead of stating that decided to say they cause fires? Or do you think it's possible he was just told to remove them because they lead to problems? As happens with stories, one thing led to another while techs were talking and someone mentioned the fire theory. He believed it.
Don't assume someone is lying just because they don't know the truth.
Or were you not aware of what lying really means?
AntAltMike
07-06-08, 10:41 PM
As I've said many times, the flattest of flat cables can be made by taking the chinciest 300 ohm cable you can find, which will be the stuff used in forming an FM dipole antenna, and pigtailing it at each end to stripped coax wire ends. I have never enountered any problems when I do this. But if you ever have to call DirecTV for service, you should remove and hide that piece of cable and substitute a round coax and leave your door or window slightly open so he will not try to blame it for your problem. You might also have a roll of wide tape handy and tell him that you tape the gap to keep out the elements. It will make your installation seem more credible.
BattleZone
07-06-08, 10:55 PM
As I've said many times, the flattest of flat cables can be made by taking the chinciest 300 ohm cable you can find, which will be the stuff used in forming an FM dipole antenna, and pigtailing it at each end to stripped coax wire ends.
You may have gotten it to work, just like you might be able to fix a car with bailing wire and duct tape, but it's not the right way to do it.
west99999
07-06-08, 11:14 PM
there actually was a huge damage claim regarding flat cables and a fire it was proven that lightning caused the flat cable to catch fire therefore directv directed all hsp to no longer use them this was in an internal memo from directv not sure the exacts on it but it was something like this
Radio Enginerd
07-07-08, 12:09 AM
there actually was a huge damage claim regarding flat cables and a fire it was proven that lightning caused the flat cable to catch fire therefore directv directed all hsp to no longer use them this was in an internal memo from directv not sure the exacts on it but it was something like thisI don't see how flat cable is any more unsafe (in the above explanation) than regular coax?
No dig on you west99999, I just think this sounds more like an urban myth.
litzdog911
07-07-08, 01:08 AM
there actually was a huge damage claim regarding flat cables and a fire it was proven that lightning caused the flat cable to catch fire therefore directv directed all hsp to no longer use them this was in an internal memo from directv not sure the exacts on it but it was something like this
I don't believe it. Can you link to a credible reference?
whynot83706
07-07-08, 03:28 AM
http://www.solidsignal.com has them.
Wow they are even cheap....I ordered one, thanks. I know he removed connectors which were going to the flat cables and he did put some new ones, so I am hoping it is going to work.
Although, flat cables are removed for the one or the another reason I just dont understand how this is going to work for the customers who live in apartments. Now I cant close my balcony door and its pain in the rear end. Most of the apartments will not let you drill the walls at all....
DesertFlyer
07-07-08, 03:35 AM
I just bought a bunch from Amazon. If it seems one is going bad (and this has only happened once in two years- we don't use that door much) I just replace it. No biggie. KU/KA seem to travel fine through them and they have worked well for me.
Fire hazzard or not, I would be pretty POed if DirecTV took any of my propoerty from my house. Sure, warn me all you want, but nothing in the customer agreement allows them to steal.
joe diamond
07-07-08, 09:46 AM
Why do people have to throw out that accusation all the time??
How do you know he lied? Do you know for a fact that he knew it was supposed to be removed because they damage too easily and instead of stating that decided to say they cause fires? Or do you think it's possible he was just told to remove them because they lead to problems? As happens with stories, one thing led to another while techs were talking and someone mentioned the fire theory. He believed it.
Don't assume someone is lying just because they don't know the truth.
Or were you not aware of what lying really means?
Ok, Stew,
THEY.........are the call center folks & the HSP offices. THEY just make up stuff. Not every one but I have arrived at jobs and the customer asked if I was well enough to work...stuff like that. People who repeat incorrect or untruthful statements are not lying unless they discover a more correct position and continue.
Receivers will not catch fire if not connected to phone lines. I have been doing this work for many years and my truck has never broken down. Flat cables are prone to problems but also will not damage the system. These are true statements.
But I see what you mean.
Joe
I've been using three 18" flat cables to transition through a window. The window
has, for the most part, been closed and locked for over four years. I would not
hesitate to use a flat cable in a sliding door situation, but I would monitor its
condition from time to time and would keep a spare on hand.
RobertE
07-07-08, 02:19 PM
I don't believe it. Can you link to a credible reference?
It was sent out in a Blast Facts to all dealers/HSP on 5/30/08
REMINDER: Proper use of DIRECTV approved drop materials from the Approved Materials List IS REQUIRED. This includes, but is not limited to, the use of approved coaxial cable and F81 barrel connectors. Flat Cable Jumpers from any manufacturer are NOT APPROVED!
Recent cases of non-approved flat cable usage have caused property damage and unnecessary claims.
litzdog911
07-07-08, 04:42 PM
It was sent out in a Blast Facts to all dealers/HSP on 5/30/08
Thanks RobertE. That's hardly proof that a flat cable caused a fire, though.
RobertE
07-07-08, 04:45 PM
Thanks RobertE. That's hardly proof that a flat cable caused a fire, though.
You are correct. It never mentions fire. With that being said, what other types of damage could be caused by an electrical short with up to 20 volts running through it? ;)
We have:
Shocks
Smoke/Fire at receiver/flat cable
Everyone embellishes stories so...
It says property damage.
I think water damage is a strong possibility...and not from putting out the fire.
houskamp
07-07-08, 07:47 PM
You are correct. It never mentions fire. With that being said, what other types of damage could be caused by an electrical short with up to 20 volts running through it? ;)
We have:
Shocks
Smoke/Fire at receiver/flat cable
Everyone embellishes stories so...
or 30v at 1.5 amps for SWM..
whynot83706
07-07-08, 08:01 PM
Fire hazzard or not, I would be pretty POed if DirecTV took any of my propoerty from my house. Sure, warn me all you want, but nothing in the customer agreement allows them to steal.
Although cables were mine I dont want to say he stole them (even if he was 3 hours late and IMO he was not professional), maybe he just took them to disposed them...but he left other stuff (cables he cut). :(
Now when I think more I have to say I did not like that guy at all.....but the first installer was great and very professional.
joe diamond
07-07-08, 09:52 PM
Although cables were mine I dont want to say he stole them (even if he was 3 hours late and IMO he was not professional), maybe he just took them to disposed them...but he left other stuff (cables he cut). :(
Now when I think more I have to say I did not like that guy at all.....but the first installer was great and very professional.
Small stuff!
I once called a customer to tell him his toddler probably had a sharp tool that was in my box just before I left his house. It took some time to bring him to understand that I didn't want the little knife or to bring charges against his three year old kid....."Sir, take the knife from your daughter if you find it. If I find that sharp item in my truck or elsewhere I will call you."
And he said....she is not MY daughter.
Stolen cable?.......grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Joe
dmurphy
07-07-08, 10:01 PM
Small stuff!
I once called a customer to tell him his toddler probably had a sharp tool that was in my box just before I left his house. It took some time to bring him to understand that I didn't want the little knife or to bring charges against his three year old kid....."Sir, take the knife from your daughter if you find it. If I find that sharp item in my truck or elsewhere I will call you."
And he said....she is not MY daughter.
Stolen cable?.......grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Joe
Could be worse... had an installer once who left his entire tool bag in my family room... everything, including his sat meter!
I called DirecTV, who called the HSP, who called the installer, who drove back 20 minutes to come get it.
The best part though is what I found later in my lawn, right next to the driveway where his van was parked... his empty bottle of Jack Daniel's. Unreal.
Incompetent
07-07-08, 10:25 PM
Flat cable does not work with KA/KU. That is why they were kicked.
texasbrit
07-08-08, 08:02 AM
Flat cable does not work with KA/KU. That is why they were kicked.
Flat cable works fine with Ka/Ku. That is an installer "urban legend".
Snippet posted by RobertE:
REMINDER: Proper use of DIRECTV approved drop materials from the Approved Materials List IS REQUIRED. This includes, but is not limited to, the use of approved coaxial cable and F81 barrel connectors. Flat Cable Jumpers from any manufacturer are NOT APPROVED!
Does anyone have an electronic copy of this Approved Materials List? I've never seen it. On-line vendors sometime describe an item as "Directv Approved" which drops clues, but it would be nice to see the whole thing. I would think it a handy thing to have in the "tips" section for self installers like myself.
Also, are the installers "religous" in following the brand names specified?
joe diamond
07-08-08, 06:23 PM
Snippet posted by RobertE:
REMINDER: Proper use of DIRECTV approved drop materials from the Approved Materials List IS REQUIRED. This includes, but is not limited to, the use of approved coaxial cable and F81 barrel connectors. Flat Cable Jumpers from any manufacturer are NOT APPROVED!
Does anyone have an electronic copy of this Approved Materials List? I've never seen it. On-line vendors sometime describe an item as "Directv Approved" which drops clues, but it would be nice to see the whole thing. I would think it a handy thing to have in the "tips" section for self installers like myself.
Also, are the installers "religous" in following the brand names specified?
2dogz,
Excellent point!
I too have heard of approved lists but never seen one. One wise man showed me pictures of an installation I did with an "unapproved" push through bushing I had used. I asked for the approved list at that point and..........wait for it......." that list is on a need to know basis".........Idiots!
So contractors are (maybe) given a specification. Then they are told what methods and parts to attain the desired result. They are told when to arrive.
Ordered to phone report results and pay is denied for failure to comply. ....People who work like this are employees. DTV issues (or not) what parts they want installed. The PAID BY THE HOUR tech goes out and works until done. The competent will work for wages...the incompetent need training or out placement counseling.
Joe
RobertE
07-08-08, 06:43 PM
Snippet posted by RobertE:
REMINDER: Proper use of DIRECTV approved drop materials from the Approved Materials List IS REQUIRED. This includes, but is not limited to, the use of approved coaxial cable and F81 barrel connectors. Flat Cable Jumpers from any manufacturer are NOT APPROVED!
Does anyone have an electronic copy of this Approved Materials List? I've never seen it. On-line vendors sometime describe an item as "Directv Approved" which drops clues, but it would be nice to see the whole thing. I would think it a handy thing to have in the "tips" section for self installers like myself.
Also, are the installers "religous" in following the brand names specified?
It's available for download (Excel file) on the retailer web site. Any site manager or FOM should have it available as well.
As for following it to the letter. Well...sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. ;)
What's the retailer web site? URL?
TIA
Birdman79
07-08-08, 07:33 PM
I read on a different forum that an installing company was/is being sued because an apartment they installed using flat cable got broken into .The reason was the customer wasn't able to lock his patio door cause the flat cable was in the way. :rolleyes:
It's available for download (Excel file) on the retailer web site. Any site manager or FOM should have it available as well.
As for following it to the letter. Well...sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. ;)
RobertE:
Please explain what is the retailer web site? or a FOM?
RobertE
07-10-08, 06:20 AM
RobertE:
Please explain what is the retailer web site? or a FOM?
retailer.directv.com
It won't do you any good though without a login/password.
FOM = Field Operations Manager. The DirecTv guy that looks over a particular region. HSPs, contractors, etc answer to him.
joe diamond
07-10-08, 02:48 PM
I read on a different forum that an installing company was/is being sued because an apartment they installed using flat cable got broken into .The reason was the customer wasn't able to lock his patio door cause the flat cable was in the way. :rolleyes:
I ran into that the other way.
A DTV customer hired a cable guy to install her DTV equipment. The list of incorrect items was long. What brought the service call was the coax going through the window. The alarm system wouldn't work.
The HSP offered me thirty dollars to fix everything. That was my first hint I was in the wrong business. I said I needed three hours and pay for a complete reinstall.....and I wouldn't repair the roof or window.
Joe
retailer.directv.com
It won't do you any good though without a login/password.
FOM = Field Operations Manager. The DirecTv guy that looks over a particular region. HSPs, contractors, etc answer to him.
Thanks for the answer, but it doesn't do me much good. You go to the door, find it's locked, and there is no doorbell.
Is there a list of FOMs and their phone numbers laying around someplace? Chuckle, last thing they would want.
RobertE
07-10-08, 04:27 PM
Thanks for the answer, but it doesn't do me much good. You go to the door, find it's locked, and there is no doorbell.
Is there a list of FOMs and their phone numbers laying around someplace? Chuckle, last thing they would want.
Not to sound snarky, but the retailer/dealer web site is for, well...retailers/dealers, not the general public.
There is a list of FOMs with contact info, but, you guessed it, it's on the web site. ;)
Not to sound snarky, but the retailer/dealer web site is for, well...retailers/dealers, not the general public.
There is a list of FOMs with contact info, but, you guessed it, it's on the web site. ;)
No snark taken. :) But why do they hold their cards so close to the vest? I wonder.
NYCEGUY01
07-10-08, 05:31 PM
Cause they are busy enough dealing with the hsp's etc.. They dont talk to customers. They have csr's for that. lol
Cause they are busy enough dealing with the hsp's etc.. They dont talk to customers. They have csr's for that. lol
The issue is not access to their phone numbers. I made sure that only my boss knew my home/cell/pager numbers and not my customers. Ah, peace.
The issue is why this Approved Materials List is not readily available to the public.
My fox quick brain, keen sense of smell, and wagging tail conjures up some D* exec approving vendor X connectors. In return, vendor X VP of Marketing supplies said exec with 100" flat screen, new swimming pool, and marries his ugly daughter.
TimG517
07-10-08, 06:18 PM
I have had DirecTV for almost 3 years. Flat cables the whole time with HD.
The first place it was behind the sliding door on my balcony, never broke (1.5 years) and through a window that I stopped using - never broke.
Now it is through a window in a laundry room - 4 of them - and they have been there for over a year flawlesly.
I had a tech come to install a multi - switch and he threatened to remove my flat cables.
I told him to just leave the equipment (multi-switch) and leave. He was probably the ruddest installer I have ever dealt with. I have seen a few installers, most if not all (except this dou**e bag) were great to work WITH.
He said HD can't pass through flat cables - that has been proven from many posts on this site.
He said that flat cables will break, even if the window is never opened. 14 months later, still going strong? huh.
Now, I would LOVE to have wall plates, and not have 500 feet of cable running through my apartment (townhouse).
That is not possible, and I prefer DirecTV over cable any day.
I feel since we are paying for the service, we should have the choice to use the flat cable.
Radio Enginerd
07-10-08, 08:15 PM
I'll say it.
:beatdeadhorse:
yep we got the fire story as to why we weren't supposed to use flat cable anymore. On the other hand I have had sup's tell me that if that the only option and I have some its really up to me...
joe diamond
08-05-08, 12:09 AM
Contractors produce a result at a specific time and place. They use their own competitive methods (materials) for a fixed price.
Employees work for an employer until the result is achieved. Employers MANAGE the employees and supply cost effective supplies.
What am I missing?
Joe
thebeev
08-05-08, 11:13 AM
the installer that came out to my condo said he had a flat cable he could use for my install. Never said anything about it not being safe.
So where can I get flat cables, because if the cables are not fire hazard I really don't understand why he had to tell me that bs.... acording to him it was DTV who told them it was fire hazzard.... Also I just realized he removed ground wire when he was moving antena and he never placed it back.
how many u want? contact me joshua_duff@msn.com
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