View Full Version : Diagram of DirecTV Satellites?
I've been having a heckuva time with my DirecTV lately. First, some of my HD channels started going out, now all my locals are out - both standard and HD.
I think I have some trees growing up in the way.
If I go to my HR20's satellite signal meter, here's what I see:
101° - Signal not acquired
110° - 56-57% on both tuners
119° - 94-95% on both tuners
99°(s) - Signal not acquired
103°(s) - Signal not acquired
103°(c) - Signal not acquired
If I knew where in the sky that the satellites were located it should help me figure out which trees to cut down. Has anyone seen such a diagram?
www.dishpointer.com should help you out.
Mertzen
07-10-08, 12:42 PM
I'd say your dish is loose and has shifted. I've seen similar levels on loose dishes that moved an inch or so.
Can you get to your dish? Does it look loose? Does it have two support brackets ?
Plus in your neck of the woods trees would firts take out 119 and 110 in most situations.
I'd say your dish is loose and has shifted. I've seen similar levels on loose dishes that moved an inch or so.
Can you get to your dish? Does it look loose? Does it have two support brackets ?
Plus in your neck of the woods trees would firts take out 119 and 110 in most situations.
It's possible that it's loose although it was just aligned about a month ago.
There are no support brackets. It's a 4x4 post I cemented into the ground 9 years ago.
Just to give you an idea - here's what my treeline looks like (just took this picture 10 minutes ago).
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2655662535_04853edd30.jpg
RobertE
07-10-08, 01:25 PM
Not the trees. Alignment or the LNB/switch has died.
It is possible that the 4x4 has warped, especially considering it is 9 years old and in the middle of a GA summer. May be time to get it up on the house, or a pole mount.
Trees look far enough away.....
EricJRW
07-10-08, 01:29 PM
It is possible that the 4x4 has warped, especially considering it is 9 years old and in the middle of a GA summer. May be time to get it up on the house, or a pole mount.
Trees look far enough away.....
Steel is real... I would not trust a wood pole. :up_to_som :new_cussi
BattleZone
07-10-08, 02:07 PM
Yes, there is a reason why installers use steel posts instead of wood: you can count on a wooden post to warp and misalign the dish.
It is possible that the 4x4 has warped, especially considering it is 9 years old and in the middle of a GA summer. May be time to get it up on the house, or a pole mount.
Trees look far enough away.....
A pressure treated 4x4 is going to do all its warping in the first six months or so after being put in the ground or attached to a deck. You would probably have to tweek the dish at 3 and/or 6 months after install (why D* doesn't like them) but should be stable after that with a rain cap on the top. Water is just not absorbed from the sides of the post much because of the way Mother Nature designed trees (water goes up, not left to right).
From the picture, although camera angles can be deceiving, it looks like the dish is seeing sats well above the trees.
EricJRW
07-10-08, 02:40 PM
A pressure treated 4x4 is going to do all its warping in the first six months or so after being put in the ground or attached to a deck. You would probably have to tweek the dish at 3 and/or 6 months after install (why D* doesn't like them) but should be stable after that with a rain cap on the top. Water is just not absorbed from the sides of the post much because of the way Mother Nature designed trees (water goes up, not left to right)..
And as long as it's sunk in the ground properly, and the ground is stable (granted this would affect steel as well). I have seen many a wooden post with a nice indentation in the concrete (above or below ground), which acts a wonderful place for water to sit, greatly adding to the rotting process. Ensuring water does not collect at the base is kinda important.
ps. Why is there only one dog in your avatar?
Mertzen
07-10-08, 03:05 PM
It's possible that it's loose although it was just aligned about a month ago.
There are no support brackets. It's a 4x4 post I cemented into the ground 9 years ago.
Just to give you an idea - here's what my treeline looks like (just took this picture 10 minutes ago).
Yeah that 'shouldn't' be a problem for the 99 - 101 - 103. If you have easy acces I'd play around with it and see if you can regain signal.
And as long as it's sunk in the ground properly, and the ground is stable (granted this would affect steel as well). I have seen many a wooden post with a nice indentation in the concrete (above or below ground), which acts a wonderful place for water to sit, greatly adding to the rotting process. Ensuring water does not collect at the base is kinda important.
ps. Why is there only one dog in your avatar?
Good point on drainage. Dig hole, put in post, then put in cement, thus leaving a path for any water in post to escape into the ground. Stops rotting.
Also, when you buy PT lumber it is often dripping wet from the PT process. Best to allow it to air dry under cover from weather for a month or so to minimize warping.
I could go on about fence post and deck construction.
The avatar is my yellow lab, Banjo. My other dog, Lil-bit, is a black lab mix, and so black that most photos look like a black hole with two eyes looking at you. Tough to get them to pose together, also.
ironwood
07-10-08, 07:39 PM
One problem with a 4x4 post. There is no place to attach monopoles. Dish wont be stable even if post is solid.
With metal poles dish sits right on top of it so its only the matter of how solid the pole is itself. With wooden pole dish is probably attached with a regular foot/mast which is sticking out for about 2-3 feet. That creates more leverage and wind with bounce it around.
Well, I took the advice and went out with the old DeWalt drill with a socket attachment and re-aligned. Turns out that was the problem.
I would turn a bolt, run inside and check the signal, run back out to the dish, turn again, etc...
I finally got most of my channels then it started thundering again so I went inside.
After it cleared up a little I went back out and did a little more work and got every single channel I'm paying for - standard AND HD channels.
I was really proud of myself.
Then another storm rolled through about an hour ago and I have lost all signal to every satellite (even 119, which I was getting before).
I'll wait 'til the sky clears up a little but it sounds like I do need that metal pole.
I tell you what, times like this I wish cable was offered where I live.
ironwood
07-10-08, 09:40 PM
If wood post is sturdy enough then all you need is attach metal pole to. It has to stick out just a foot above the post and you wanna make sure pole doesnt spin, you basically need just a few bolts or two metal straps on top and bottom and few screws.
Well, last night around 11:30 I couldn't stand it any longer so I went out and adjusted some more. This time I never could get a signal on my HD receiver but my old DirecTV Tivo unit worked fine.
Not sure why I couldn't get 101° on my HR20 but could on the other receiver when they were both working great just a couple hours before.
I don't believe that my receiver just got fried. We did have lightning in the area but I didn't notice any power surges in the house.
Ah well. I'm going to try again this evening when I get home from work.
I'm also going to send a nasty-gram to DirecTV for making me wait 18 days before a technician will come out. That's right - I called yesterday and their earliest appointment to come out is July 28. In the meantime, I'm without local news and weather. I know it's just TV, but jeez...
I agree. 18 days. Jeez. He must be at the beach.
Having 101W on one of two recivers usually points to something other than the dish. You need to check out the wiring looking for loose connections, etc.
Please describe your layout. How many total receivers, model numbers, receivers wired directly from dish, or are they wired from a multiswitch, which, in turn, is wired to the dish? OTA antenna?
Except for failure of some major part like the dish LNB, you can most likely get things working a whole lot sooner than 18 days yourself. There are lots of people on this forum that will help.
Okay, I have one receiver in the living room - the HR20 HD-DVR receiver.
It has two lines coming into it - dual tuners.
In the bedroom I have one of the old DirecTV Tivo receivers. It also has dual tuners but I'm only bringing one line into it.
From the dish, I'm bringing 4 lines into the attic. One is not connected to anything. At one time I had it connected to a WB68 multiswitch but I think it was faulty because I had some major problems with it it, so I've just put female to female connectors on all the lines and all three are going to their respective receivers.
I have no OTA antenna. I live in the sticks where no signal could reach.
I just tried adjusting again. I got a 95% signal on the D*Tivo but still zero on any satellite on the HR20 (101, 110, 119, 103(c) ).
I took the b-band converters out and bypassed them altogether (I can get away with that for testing, right?) and rebooted the HR20. No luck. I only did that because I did have a bbc go bad on me in the past.
Just now I took the D*Tivo from the bedroom into the living room and connected up to the lines that were going to the HR20 - works like a charm. I tried both of the lines that were going to the HR20 - both work great.
A reasonable man would assume that the HR20's tuners are toast.
So, I can't believe my luck but it looks to me that an hour after I got my satellite aligned nearly perfectly, a storm knocked out my HR20.
It's a little uncanny for that to be the case but I can think of no other explanation.
Okay, I have one receiver in the living room - the HR20 HD-DVR receiver.
It has two lines coming into it - dual tuners.
In the bedroom I have one of the old DirecTV Tivo receivers. It also has dual tuners but I'm only bringing one line into it.
From the dish, I'm bringing 4 lines into the attic. One is not connected to anything. At one time I had it connected to a WB68 multiswitch but I think it was faulty because I had some major problems with it it, so I've just put female to female connectors on all the lines and all three are going to their respective receivers.
I have no OTA antenna. I live in the sticks where no signal could reach.
I just tried adjusting again. I got a 95% signal on the D*Tivo but still zero on any satellite on the HR20 (101, 110, 119, 103(c) ).
I took the b-band converters out and bypassed them altogether (I can get away with that for testing, right?) and rebooted the HR20. No luck. I only did that because I did have a bbc go bad on me in the past.
Just now I took the D*Tivo from the bedroom into the living room and connected up to the lines that were going to the HR20 - works like a charm. I tried both of the lines that were going to the HR20 - both work great.
A reasonable man would assume that the HR20's tuners are toast.
So, I can't believe my luck but it looks to me that an hour after I got my satellite aligned nearly perfectly, a storm knocked out my HR20.
It's a little uncanny for that to be the case but I can think of no other explanation.
It sure does look like the HR20 has fliped over, all four feet up in the air, tongue hanging out. I had an HR20-100 die on me the exact same way the beginning of May. That you brought the DTivo and got it to work on the HR20s cables says it is not the wiring or dish.
What I did and what I recommend that you do is call D* with the old receiver sitting on top of the HR20 and explain that one works while the other doesn't. You need to expect that they will run through their troubleshooting flowchart, have to connect, reboot, disconnect, connect, reboot, etc. to demo that it's the box and not anything else. Expect to spend an hour going through this, be nice, be polite, it's a pain but they'll ship you a replacement box. Only cost you $20 shipping unless you have the protection plan, where it is free.
You'll get the box in a couple of business days, but much better than 18 days.
ironwood
07-11-08, 10:41 PM
HD DVR sitting without signal for a long time will not pick up signal even dish is realigned. It has to be reset but sometimes you need hard reset.
Unplug receiver for 15 minutes and try again. If it still doesnt show any signal then probably its dead
I had the receiver unplugged all night, just went in and plugged the RG6 cables back into the HR20 and booted up. No luck.
Still working great on the DirecTivo.
Called DirecTV told them what I did and why I believe I need a new receiver and they said they don't just send receivers out. They have to send a technician out to troubleshoot. They have sent me one before. About a year ago I lost an HR20 after a storm and they just shipped me a new one.
I'm really beginning to think DirecTV is trying to lose my business.
I guess I'm going to have to look at Dish. These guys are getting really bad.
I had the receiver unplugged all night, just went in and plugged the RG6 cables back into the HR20 and booted up. No luck.
Still working great on the DirecTivo.
Called DirecTV told them what I did and why I believe I need a new receiver and they said they don't just send receivers out. They have to send a technician out to troubleshoot. They have sent me one before. About a year ago I lost an HR20 after a storm and they just shipped me a new one.
I'm really beginning to think DirecTV is trying to lose my business.
I guess I'm going to have to look at Dish. These guys are getting really bad.
No, thats actually typical. CSR's who just drop ship receivers without troubleshooting are wasting aot of DirecTV's time and Money.
Have you tried putting the HR20 where the HR10-250 is?
They're not trying to lose your business, this has nothing to do with you, they just typically dont generally send out replacement receivers.
It sounds like you refused to troubleshoot with them too, and simply told them you already did all the troubleshooting yourself. That's a good way to get a CSR uncooperative.
It sounds like you refused to troubleshoot with them too, and simply told them you already did all the troubleshooting yourself. That's a good way to get a CSR uncooperative.
The CSR never asked me to do anything.
I started the call of telling him I had a service call placed for July 28 but that I think I had narrowed it down to a bad HR20. I asked him if they could just send me a new one so I didn't have to wait for the service call.
He said that the tech would need to come out and make that determination. I never refused any troubleshooting because none was ever offered.
Have you tried putting the HR20 where the HR10-250 is?
I didn't think of that - but that's a good idea. Not that it matters, but it's not an HR10-250. It's a Hughes SD-DVR80 (that I've upgraded to a 250GB hard drive because the original drive went bad).
I had the receiver unplugged all night, just went in and plugged the RG6 cables back into the HR20 and booted up. No luck.
Still working great on the DirecTivo.
Called DirecTV told them what I did and why I believe I need a new receiver and they said they don't just send receivers out. They have to send a technician out to troubleshoot. They have sent me one before. About a year ago I lost an HR20 after a storm and they just shipped me a new one.
I'm really beginning to think DirecTV is trying to lose my business.
I guess I'm going to have to look at Dish. These guys are getting really bad.
Well, that sucks. I googled Dahlonega, GA for my own enlightment, about 100 miles NNE of Atlanta, and about the same SE of Chattanooga, way out there. Sounds like they might be scheduling visits to your area like twice a month.
I don't blame you for thinking Dish. You might call them and after discussing packages and prices, ask what the lead time is for an install. With this information, call D* back and ask for retention. Explain the problem and tell them 18 DAYS! is unacceptable. Retention seems to have a lot of authority to get things done. Maybe they can kick a** and take names.
Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
Also think that the last tech you spoke with saw you had a truckroll scheduled and just blew you off. Next call.
...and after I sent my second e-mail to DirecTV letting them know how disappointed and frustrated I am about this situation, here's the response I got back.
Thank you for writing us back. I'm sorry for the frustration this may have caused you.
I know how important it is for you to get your new equipment installed. I'm sorry for the wait and I assure you that our technicians are working overtime to get to you as soon as possible.
Sincerely,
Emil T. - 100185357
DIRECTV Customer Service
So, as you can see, they're not even reading my e-mails. This is not new equipment. This is a service call for existing equipment.
The CSR never asked me to do anything.
I started the call of telling him I had a service call placed for July 28 but that I think I had narrowed it down to a bad HR20. I asked him if they could just send me a new one so I didn't have to wait for the service call.
He said that the tech would need to come out and make that determination. I never refused any troubleshooting because none was ever offered.
Im sorry, I guess I didn't completely compile the information.
CSRs rarely cancel techs and send out a replacement receiver. If the tech is already scheduled and they cancel it and it has to be scheduled again, they (The CSR) get penalized. Its safer (for the CSR) just to have the tech go out.
I didn't think of that - but that's a good idea. Not that it matters, but it's not an HR10-250. It's a Hughes SD-DVR80 (that I've upgraded to a 250GB hard drive because the original drive went bad).
My bad. I thought you said HR10 somewhere...
VOLBEAT
07-12-08, 11:48 PM
Well, that sucks. I googled Dahlonega, GA for my own enlightment, about 100 miles NNE of Atlanta, and about the same SE of Chattanooga, way out there. Sounds like they might be scheduling visits to your area like twice a month.
I don't blame you for thinking Dish. You might call them and after discussing packages and prices, ask what the lead time is for an install. With this information, call D* back and ask for retention. Explain the problem and tell them 18 DAYS! is unacceptable. Retention seems to have a lot of authority to get things done. Maybe they can kick a** and take names.
I agree 100% with this post...........I'd have retention on the phone in no time and I'd have a new box on it's way.
I'd have retention on the phone in no time and I'd have a new box on it's way.
Do they work on sunday?
Otherwise, I can wait 'til tomorrow.
A pressure treated 4x4 is going to do all its warping in the first six months or so after being put in the ground or attached to a deck.Actually a PT post is going to act like a cat gut barometer. When it drys it will twist and as it gets damp, it will straighten out.
The photo doesn't give a very good sense of the relative position of the dish with respect to the tree line. If those trees are within 40' or so, there's a pretty good chance of blockage that will eventually consume 101W.
Do they work on sunday?
Otherwise, I can wait 'til tomorrow.
Weekdays during regular business hours would be the better choice.
Okay, I hooked up the HR20 in the bedroom, where the SD-DVR80 was working fine and it has no signal there either.
...and let me ask you guys a question. It's kind of embarrassing but when I was adjusting the tilt of my dish, it was a little tough to move but I didn't think much of it. The next day when I went out and adjusted the tilt again, the head of the adjusting bolt turned...but the rest of the bolt did not.
So, I had neglected to loosen the top bolts that holds the alignment steady and ended up twisting the bolt in two. Yes, I used an 18V cordless drill instead of a ratchet.
Anyways, I don't suppose any of you have access to a broken dish or know if I can buy just that bolt somewhere, do you? It looks to be a bit proprietary. I haven't taken the remaining bolt out but it looks like under that black sheath that it's in, it has a little notch in it.
See the bolt at the far right of this picture with that little black plastic piece over it - that's the bolt I broke and the one I need. Anyone know where I can find one?
(pay no attention to the arrow - I found this image via google images so that's not mine).
http://www.tv4rv.com/slimline-kit1.jpg
Tiger62
07-14-08, 06:10 AM
So, I had neglected to loosen the top bolts that holds the alignment steady and ended up twisting the bolt in two. Yes, I used an 18V cordless drill instead of a ratchet.
I don't mean to "pile on", but why in the world would you use an electric drill to make the fine adjustments? We're talking SMALL adjustments! I'm not even sure that I could do it with an electric drill!
Sorry if that sounds http://www.dbstalk.com/image.php?u=2932&dateline=1103084154. :)
(You can get a replacement Az/El on eBay for $22 here. (http://cgi.ebay.com/SLIMLINE-AZ-EL-BACK-HEADS-5-LNB-KA-KU-DISHES-FOR-DTV_W0QQitemZ320272610106QQihZ011QQcategoryZ32841Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
RobertE
07-14-08, 06:17 AM
Okay, I hooked up the HR20 in the bedroom, where the SD-DVR80 was working fine and it has no signal there either.
...and let me ask you guys a question. It's kind of embarrassing but when I was adjusting the tilt of my dish, it was a little tough to move but I didn't think much of it. The next day when I went out and adjusted the tilt again, the head of the adjusting bolt turned...but the rest of the bolt did not.
So, I had neglected to loosen the top bolts that holds the alignment steady and ended up twisting the bolt in two. Yes, I used an 18V cordless drill instead of a ratchet.
Anyways, I don't suppose any of you have access to a broken dish or know if I can buy just that bolt somewhere, do you? It looks to be a bit proprietary. I haven't taken the remaining bolt out but it looks like under that black sheath that it's in, it has a little notch in it.
See the bolt at the far right of this picture with that little black plastic piece over it - that's the bolt I broke and the one I need. Anyone know where I can find one?
(pay no attention to the arrow - I found this image via google images so that's not mine).
http://www.tv4rv.com/slimline-kit1.jpg
The AZ/EL assembly is screwed. You need a new one.
Good luck.
houskamp
07-14-08, 07:05 AM
Sorry if that sounds http://www.dbstalk.com/image.php?u=2932&dateline=1103084154. :)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't mean to "pile on", but why in the world would you use an electric drill to make the fine adjustments?
Yeah, I know. The reason I used the drill is because I saw the installer using a drill last time he aligned my dish. I didn't realize how small the adjustments were. Live and learn.
Thanks for the link. Just ordered it.
I spoke with a nice young lady named Amanda at retention and told her everything that was going on.
She said she would try and get my service call bumped up. I told her that I had already tried that and was told repeatedly the earliest they could get out here was July 28 and ideally, I just want them to ship me a new receiver.
She said she would request that and send me back over to the protection plan line. So, I spoke with a rep and she said she would take care of it and out of the blue she says "well, I can get a technician out there tomorrow."
Wow...only one problem. I can't stay home tomorrow. I have to go into the office (50 miles away) and on top of that have a noon doctor's appointment (another 20 miles away from the office).
So I tell her that and she says "I also have one available wednesday."
When the hell did all these appointments open up?
So I snagged the wednesday 8-12 timeslot.
Hopefully I'll be back in HD-heaven by wednesday afternoon.
I've always been DirecTV's biggest fan but this whole experience has really soured me.
It's like when you realized that wrestling was fake or finding out that William Shatner is really a jerk in real life.
The guy just left here.
He re-aligned the dish. Saw that the receiver was bad, replaced it with a sexy new black one and leaves.
5 minutes later my wife turns it to the local CBS HD channel. "Searching for satellite..."
Grrr....
The guy just left here.
He re-aligned the dish. Saw that the receiver was bad, replaced it with a sexy new black one and leaves.
5 minutes later my wife turns it to the local CBS HD channel. "Searching for satellite..."
Grrr....
Did the tech leave you his number? He'd rather you call him back than D*, where he'll get dinged for the callback.
No, he didn't leave a number.
What satellite are local HD channels on?
I'm going to try and tune it in myself. I had it all working before my receiver went out.
Locals are on either 99s or 103 s depending on your area. Best thing to do is peak the 103c transponders since you know you should be receiving all of those and it should peak 99s and 103s at the same time.
103c no longer shows up on this new receiver. I just took pictures of signal strength of all the sats that show up. Check it out. What's up with 103b? Why would only tuner 2 be getting a signal on it?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3040/2674420889_b1039b47ce.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/2674420795_273643647a.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3168/2675239052_22bec848a2.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2674420565_25933c71e6.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3155/2675238798_20fd611e7f.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2675238690_a61302fdd3.jpg
Sorry I missed that the H series us a and b not S and C. 103a should be the conus and 103b and 99b should be the spots.
If you have an HR series you might need to force a download of the newest software. You can do this by rebooting the receiver and pressing 0 2 4 6 8 as soon as the blue ring comes back on or you see the blue screen show up.
If it's a new receiver, I'd try re-running guided sat setup once before you go and tweak on the dish. I had to run twice on my bedroom HR20 before it picked up the 99 spots - it's been fine since then.
ironwood
07-16-08, 03:44 PM
Looks like a bad B-Band. Swap B-bands on tuners 1 and 2 see if it reverses.
Looks like a bad B-Band. Swap B-bands on tuners 1 and 2 see if it reverses.
You, sir, are a genius.
I don't know why, but after the guy left I noticed that he left a BBC in front of my TV. I'm guessing he pulled a bad one out of my setup and left it there but he also installed a bad one.
I put the one in that was in front of the TV and the signal cut in and out on that channel - which was better than the zero signal I was getting before but still not good.
Fortunately, I still have a couple of the old gray ones in my garage so I grabbed one of those and put it on line 2. Everything is working now.
I think the guy stiffed me on a remote control though. He didn't leave a new remote with me. I've got the old white one from the old HR20. No big deal - I use a Logitech Harmony but it's the principal of the thing.
Good to hear you got it working. And a lot sooner than July 28th, too. Suspect you spent more time and effort on the problem than D*, but my opinion is that the more you can service your own install, the less you have to depend on a D* truck roll.
Thanks, I couldn't have done it without the help from you guys.
Now, lets hope those trees don't grow much more.
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