Bay Area Folks: Audio drops on Fox and ABC

[INHUMANITY]

I searched the forums for previous posts, but could not find anything.

I have been experiencing this problem for the past few weeks. I will DVR The Simpsons, Family Guys, American Dad and the audio drops on playback every few seconds. It also happens on commercials, but not as much as the TV shows.

A couple DVR'ed episodes of Hell's Kitchen showed no problems.

I also noticed it on ABC. A couple episodes of Eli Stone had the audio drops and they seemed to be even worse.

Before I send off an e-mail to dishquality, I wanted to see if it is just me or are others experiencing the same problem.

Thanks! :)

[RTCDude]

I searched the forums for previous posts, but could not find anything.

I have been experiencing this problem for the past few weeks. I will DVR The Simpsons, Family Guys, American Dad and the audio drops on playback every few seconds. It also happens on commercials, but not as much as the TV shows.

A couple DVR'ed episodes of Hell's Kitchen showed no problems.

I also noticed it on ABC. A couple episodes of Eli Stone had the audio drops and they seemed to be even worse.

Before I send off an e-mail to dishquality, I wanted to see if it is just me or are others experiencing the same problem.

Thanks! :)
Yep! This started occurring with 5.11 on my 722. It only happens with the HD feeds, not the SD versions. It's worse when there is a static video image, such as a seven day forcast during the weather. Also, this doesn't happen on ANY other HD channel, just FOX (2) and ABC (7).

[whatchel1]

This is a little off topic but my brother is going to go E* this fall. I would like to know what dish is working well in the area now. Thanks.

[Doug E]

I have a 722 and am also experiencing audio dropouts on ABC (channel 7) on their HD feed. I don't watch FOX (channel 2) except for NFL, so no experience there. I do find that the sound on channel 11 (NBC) is true surround, and their HD picture is dazzling. Also, don't you hate the change in volume levels when changing between the stations? I purchased a "volume regulator"....it proved to be worthless.

[barenjager]

I also have noticed the sound drop outs on ABC. I especially notice it during the ABC National News. I am learing how to be a good lip reader. It is very annoying since it may occurr every couple of seconds. I also noticed it when I received 5.51 on my two 622's. I only watch recorded shows so don't know if it also occurs on live broadcast. It will be very annoying once Lost returns.

[phrelin]

Since I'm not watching much broadcast network TV, I haven't had much of it. But what I did experience I chalked up to the local station having problems. This sounds a bit more than that, though.

[INHUMANITY]

So, this may warrant an e-mail to dishquality.

[elbodude]

I searched the forums for previous posts, but could not find anything.

I have been experiencing this problem for the past few weeks. I will DVR The Simpsons, Family Guys, American Dad and the audio drops on playback every few seconds. It also happens on commercials, but not as much as the TV shows.

A couple DVR'ed episodes of Hell's Kitchen showed no problems.

I also noticed it on ABC. A couple episodes of Eli Stone had the audio drops and they seemed to be even worse.

Before I send off an e-mail to dishquality, I wanted to see if it is just me or are others experiencing the same problem.

Thanks! :)

Yep, I have experienced the same issues with the same channels.

[bobl]

Me too, both channels!

[vis_vis]

So, this may warrant an e-mail to dishquality.

I began having major audio issues with ViP622 about 5-6 weeks ago (and reported them in the forum in another thread) when 5.11 was installed. I did not have major problems with this receiver after subscribing the HD package (15 months ago) but now it is slowly turning into an unpleasant experience.

After 5.11 (and now 5.12) all HD local channels are unwatchable due to the above mentioned audio issues. KTVU (FOX2), CBS5, ABC7 and NBC11 (in Bay Area) all have drastic audio interruptions, of 1-2 seconds for 2-3 minutes, then it would work for another minute then start again to drop, etc...

Live TV works fine, delayed and recorded have the issues. Standard feed of the same channels does not have the issue, only the HD feed.

A few days ago I setup an antenna and scanned for the OTA channels in the area. All channels that have audio issues with the feed coming from Dish -KTVU (FOX2), CBS5, ABC7 and NBC11, DO NOT have any problem when watched in OTA, I can pause, skip, record, etc.. without audio interruptions.

Needless to say that calls, chat with Dish Tech support were a waste of time. Here is what I got from them last week after I called, sent email and chatted with a tech support lady.

"Thank you for your email. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. Thank you for providing the information for our engineering department. They are currently working towards a resolution for this issue. Unfortunately, we do not have a status report for this situation at this time. Generally these issues are resolved via software information sent directly to the receiver. Please remember to turn off your receiver when you are not watching TV, so that it can receive the update when it becomes available."

ViP622, LCD TV with HDMI and Antenna out to another TV - sharing the tuner. Both TVs exhibit the same behavior.

Regards,

[phrelin]

While I'm sure Dish is "working on it" I sent a message to KGO 7 from their web site advising them of the problem so that they put pressure on Dish through their own engineering folks. KGO has always been responsive to my input.

Edit: received the following response about an hour after my message:Your email has been forwarded to our Engineering Department.
Carol Mc Elroy
KGO-TV/DT ABC7

[INHUMANITY]

As of this past weekend the problem is still there. Both on ABC and FOX.

[Jak Crow]

I've got a VIP622 and the audio on ABC/KGO is dropping sporadically. I reported it to Dish and the woman I got in TS tried to say it was my hardware, but clearly it's not. It shouldn't be alien there's an issue with one of the feeds.

[INHUMANITY]

I thought the drops had lessened in the past few weeks, but after watching Eli Stone it's still there.

Fox is still dropping terribly.

No response from Dish Quality or the local ABC affiliate. I haven't e-mailed KTVU.

[RTCDude]

I thought the drops had lessened in the past few weeks, but after watching Eli Stone it's still there.

Fox is still dropping terribly.

No response from Dish Quality or the local ABC affiliate. I haven't e-mailed KTVU.
Please post back any responses you get. Channel 7 and 2 are now at times unwatchable with this audio staccato.

[SteveinDanville]

I am seeing the same thing as of Monday, 8/18 on KGO (don't really watch Fox). It is unbelievable, and it's been going on at least a month now? Unwatchable. I now have to watch KPIX-5 for news...at least they finally went Hi-Def. What's up, Dish?

[phrelin]

Go to this web page (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/feature?section=resources/inside_station/station_info&id=5792275), fill out the form (select "other" from the pulldown menu). Describe the problem with the Dish Network feed. I have always gotten a response that the message is being passed on to engineering and usually get a followup from engineering saying they are contacting Dish to work out a solution to the problem. KGO is interested in getting their channel viewed, and the upcoming fall season is important. The more people they receive "expressions of concern" from, the more likely they are to work it out with Dish.

[Doug E]

Thanks phrelin.....I just wrote them. Sure hope they correct it SOON.

[SteveinDanville]

I just wrote them also.

[Doug E]

An engineer responded promptly to my email. He advises that the problem is with the DISH and not the station. How do we complain to DISH??

[phrelin]

For what it's worth, I just sent the following email to the addresses I have used in the past at Dish:

Subject: It's Time to Fix San Francisco Bay Area Audio Problems with ABC and Fox HD
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:12:30 -0700
From: (Me)
To: Dish Technical Support <tech@echostar.com>, Dish Quality <dishquality@echostar.com>
CC: Dish Network <ceo@dishnetwork.com>


I think we've all been reasonably patient this Summer, but the new Fall Season is rapidly approaching. KGO and KTVU have both been notified of the problem now repeatedly described in this thread on DBSTalk Bay Area Folks: Audio drops on Fox and ABC (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=133727) as well as in numerous other threads. The stations' engineering staffs are now indicating the problem is with your end. So please fix it.

Now that all the marketing is in place, let's get in there and make the TurboHD actually work.

Sincerely

(Me)
20-year Echostar Customer

[Doug E]

For what it's worth, I just sent the following email to the addresses I have used in the past at Dish:

Well Done! They have no excuses now to pass the buck. Please let us know when/if you receive a response...

[moman19]

You guys are not alone. Check out the following link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343

I live in St. Louis and experience similar issues on ABC, Fox and certain events that are stored on my external drive but are now "unlistenable". This was not an issue before rel 5.xx was introduced.

[phrelin]

You guys are not alone. Check out the following link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343

I live in St. Louis and experience similar issues on ABC, Fox and certain events that are stored on my external drive but are now "unlistenable". This was not an issue before rel 5.xx was introduced.I'm aware we're not alone, but I figure if they can fix one set of locals, they'll finally be able to fix the problem. And I can't imagine the locals being pleased with Dish - pressure from two directions. Of course, they probably have the whole engineering department struggling with the one 1080p/24 movie offering because marketing gambled big time on it. In the meantime, TV doesn't work.:nono2:

[Banin]

I have this same issue. Every Sunday I record the ru-run of the family guy on Fox2. 75% of the time sound drop out makes the show unwatchable. I really hope they fix this. Also, when I hear audio drop out I can see my reciever switch from Dolby 5.1 to Stereo, and when the audio signal returns it goes back to Dolby 5.1 (which indicates to me sound actually stops being recieved, instead of simply be warped).

I send audio over the optical link instead of HDMI, if that matters.

[SteveinDanville]

Just received this reply from KGO-7 Engineering:

Dear Viewer,

We've forwarded your complaint to your signal provider, Dish network.
The audio dropouts that you're experiencing is a Dish Network set top
box problem and not with the KGO signal.
The KGO signal is carried by cable and satellite companies serving the
Bay Area and the only network that is having issues is Dish Network.
As a Dish subscriber, I encourage you to take this up with Dish network.

Let's see what Dish has to say about this...

[KEEFP]

I am having the same sound drop outs on ABC Sacramento (Channel 10). The OTA channel works just fine. The Dish HD channel is so bad I acnnot listen (or watch) it.

[phrelin]

OK, guys, here's the response from DishQuality@echostar.com: Thank you for your email.

We are aware of these audio issues and our engineering folks are actively working on them. In fact, the software team plans to partially release software version L613 pretty soon, perhaps this week or next week. We will test our department's receiver(s) once they're hit with new software. Would you mind helping us test the software by answering these questions - as observed by you - both before and after your receivers are upgraded?

1. When did you first start to notice this issue?
2. Please give a basic description, with brand names, of your audio setup, e.g. optical input into "X brand" stereo system with HDMI to "X brand" tv.
3. Do you notice the dropouts in live mode, playback mode, or both?
4. Do you experience this with other HD channels such as HDNET, USA, HBO, TNTHD, and MAX?
5. If you skip back or rewind one or more times, do you hear the dropouts at the same spot each time?
6. If you turn off your stereo surround system, do you hear the issue? If so, does it happen in live mode, playback mode, or both?

Thank you in advance for helping us track this to resolution. Your assistance is greatly appreciated!

Kind regards,
EchoStar Technologies LLC
Quality Assurance Department
dishquality@echostar.comI don't think having my information only is going to be real helpful. But I will try to help them. I think others should try to help also.

[RTCDude]

OK, guys, here's the response from DishQuality@echostar.com: I don't think having my information only is going to be real helpful. But I will try to help them. I think others should try to help also.

phrelin,

I've been tracking some of these very questions with my 722. Please forward
this on to Dish. If they would like more info, or would like me to do more tests
for them, PM me and I will send you my contact info to you to forward to them.

---------

Dish,

Something that is very very consistent; the audio dropouts almost never occur
during video that has motion in the entire frame. However, video that has almost
no motion (such as a 5 day temperature weather graphic during the news) will
be riddle with dropouts after about a half a second into the still frame. When
motion video comse back, the dropouts (almost) disappear. I've tested this again
and again; it's very reproducible.

1. When did you first start to notice this issue?

As soon as 610 showed up. Currently have 612.

2. Please give a basic description, with brand names, of your audio setup, e.g.
optical input into "X brand" stereo system with HDMI to "X brand" tv.

The audio equipment seems to make no difference. I've tried several receivers
and got the same problem; two Sonys, a Yamaha and a Onkyo. However, this
only occurs with an optical cable from the 722. If I using Left/Right RCA jacks
form the 722, the dropouts DO NOT occur.

3. Do you notice the dropouts in live mode, playback mode, or both?

Recorded playback and buffered live modes only. Live mode (no buffering) has
NO dropouts.

4. Do you experience this with other HD channels such as HDNET, USA, HBO,
TNTHD, and MAX?

No, I've done repeated testing and have only found these problems on FOX 2
and ABC 7.

5. If you skip back or rewind one or more times, do you hear the dropouts at
the same spot each time?

Not consistently, but almost. The dropout point tends to change slightly with
each replay. Also, if paused and unpaused, the dropouts that occurred before
will not occur, and will cease for about half a second and then start up again.
The dropouts tend to occur once or more times a second, and for just a syllable
or a whole words.

6. If you turn off your stereo surround system, do you hear the issue? If so,
does it happen in live mode, playback mode, or both?

Yes. The dropouts occur regardless of the audio receiver being in surround,
Dolby Digtal, or mono mode. And again, they only occur during recorded
playback and buffered live modes only. Not during live mode (no buffering)
mode.

[phrelin]

Done. I put your responses in as a separate addition to mine, along with a few notes based on what others report. Since you've spend time reproducing the problem, keep posting and we'll see what happens with L6.13.

[phrelin]

Incidentally, I have L6.13 this morning, so if any of you on this thread get it, report in. I set my recorder for mid-day news on KGO and KTVU. I record some things tonight off both since I'm not recording much anyway.

[SteveinDanville]

OK, guys, here's the response from DishQuality@echostar.com: I don't think having my information only is going to be real helpful. But I will try to help them. I think others should try to help also.
I got the same email, and I responded yesterday.

[RTCDude]

Done. I put your responses in as a separate addition to mine, along with a few notes based on what others report. Since you've spend time reproducing the problem, keep posting and we'll see what happens with L6.13.
Great. I hope this helps.

Incidently, as long as it doesn't violate any confidentiality, it would be interesting to see what comments you made and you got from others. Just curious.

[phrelin]

Great. I hope this helps.

Incidently, as long as it doesn't violate and confidentiality, it would be interesting to see what comments you made and you got from others. Just curious.No confidentiality involved. I sent the following plus what you posted above.
I'm probably not the best person to respond to this so I'm going to offer not only my answers to your questions, but below mine the observations of another who has spent time on this issue.

My observations:

When did you first start to notice this issue?
I think I started noticing it with L5.12, but I'm not certain and it appears that many seem to think it began with L6.10. The problem to me seems related to video, but I couldn't put my finger on the how. So you may get more from the additional observations I've added.

Please give a basic description, with brand names, of your audio setup, e.g. optical input into "X brand" stereo system with HDMI to "X brand" tv.
My system:
Dish 722 ViP PVR (w/ 3 WD MyBook Essential 750GB Hard Drives)
component/optical connected to
Yamaha RXV2700 AV Receiver
direct audio output to
Bose Acoustimass 10 Series
component output
Panasonic Plasma Display TH42PWD5UY
The display has no audio

Note: Their are those with HDMI who report the problem also. For instance one forum member described his system as "ViP622, LCD TV with HDMI and Antenna out to another TV - sharing the tuner. Both TVs exhibit the same behavior. DO NOT have any problem when watched in OTA, I can pause, skip, record, etc.. without audio interruptions."

Do you notice the dropouts in live mode, playback mode, or both?
I don't watch anything live.

Do you experience this with other HD channels such as HDNET, USA, HBO, TNTHD, and MAX?
Here's the thing. I believe I'm hearing it on channels other than KGO and KTVU, but I don't know for certain which and when. Someone else started the thread I originally referred you to. My guess is that if that problem can be solved, the rest will be.

If you skip back or rewind one or more times, do you hear the dropouts at the same spot each time?
The most accurate description of the dropouts was posted on the ViP622/ViP722 - L5.12/L6.10/L6.12 Audio Related Issues Discussions (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343) thread as follows:

I can report that the dropouts remain in the same spot when replayed. However, I find that the location of the drops can and do vary slightly. This is what helps me decipher words I cannot understand. My dropouts tend to be very short and may mute only a portion of a word or syllable. One time I might hear "The quick brown f__ jumped over the lazy dogs" Then when played back a second time, I might hear The quick brown _ox jumped over the lazy dogs" A third try might sound like "The quick brow_ fox jumped over the lazy dogs". etc. I find that it sometimes shifts.

If you turn off your stereo surround system, do you hear the issue? If so, does it happen in live mode, playback mode, or both?
I can't turn off my stereo surround system and still get sound.

Thank you in advance for helping us track this to resolution. Your assistance is greatly appreciated!
You're welcome and good luck.

[phrelin]

Sigh. I just sent the following to Dish and KGO engineering: Well, here's the update. I can say with great confidence that your update L6.13 did nothing to alter the audio dropout situation. I recorded the 11:00 am local news on KGO 7 ABC. Live there were no problems. But recorded I had audio dropouts.

If you do communicate with KGO engineering, for specificity I can report that some dropout began in the weather portion beginning as the weather guy gave the temperature for Livermore and for a few seconds after that point the number of audio dropouts were enough to make the report worthless were he not standing next to a weather map.

The weird thing is I hooked a boom box up to the RCA audio outs and still get dropouts. But not exactly in the same place though still during the same general time frame on the weather.

[phrelin]

Double sigh. This morning I received a form email from Tech indicating they just read my original email that spurred the exchange with Dish Quality. It's what I call the "busy work" email requesting information they should be able to get off their own systems. Here's my response: Dear tech@echostar.com:

It appears that you do not have my ongoing correspondence with dishquality@echostar with more technical information as part of your file on my original email. So I have included that information below. Here also is the information you requested in your non-case-specific form email.

• Model ID: ViP722 DVR HD
• Software Version: L6.13
• Receiver CA ID: R00XXXXXXXX-XX
• Smart Card CA: S19XXXXXXXX-XX

This is the information associated with our account which is also associated with our phone number XXX-XXX-XXXX.

I am also copying this to dishquality@echostar and ceo@dishnetwork so everyone is on the same page.

It was very disappointing the L6.13 didn't address this problem. Hopefully, L6.14 will be released over the weekend solving this problem as Fox is starting their new season Monday.

Me

[phrelin]

Just got this:
Dear Us,

Thank you for your research and prompt response! We realized that our response from yesterday was misleading. We should have clarified that today's partial release of L613 might contain a fix for these audio dropouts. We have since learned that L613 does not address this particular issue and we know that engineering continues to research the matter on a daily basis.

That said, the information you provided today is exactly what we needed and it's on the way to our software teams now. These folks are researching this issue on a daily basis and we are confident that it will be fixed as quickly as possible.

Again, thank you for your patience and the time you have taken so far in helping us figure this out.

Kind regards,

EchoStar Technologies LLC
Quality Assurance Department
dishquality@echostar.com

[SteveinDanville]

Looks like I better go to the Cal-Michigan St. game instead of record it. I'll be a raving lunatic after non-stop audion drop-outs for the entire game.....

[RTCDude]

Looks like I better go to the Cal-Michigan St. game instead of record it. I'll be a raving lunatic after non-stop audion drop-outs for the entire game.....
Steve,

Are you using an optical cable for your audio? I found (at least in my case) that if I used an old analog right/left stereo cable, the audio dropouts didn't occur. The sound isn't as rich, but at least it's all there. This is my backup for now.

[plasmacat]

I just haven't watched anything on KGO for a loooong time until the Cal-Michigan St. game and yes I got the audio drops when watching on Dish. I switched to OTA thru the 622 and the audio was fine.

[KingJerky]

I have this problem as well, but it just started (that I noticed about a week ago).

HD feed network TV station and the audio drops intermittently. Ruined my college football experience on Saturday...

I called Dish and they instructed me to contact my surround sound manufacturer...doh!

I told the CSR that is NOT the problem as it does not occur on any of my other HD feeds, but ignorance is bliss and she elected not to listen. The call ended soon thereafter.

-KJ

[phrelin]

I haven't had a chance to watch the whole show yet, but since it was the first premier on Fox or ABC I recorded it. This morning I tested it. An audio drop occurred immediate at the beginning in the local promo for news then again with the "Viewer discretion advised" warning. I watched about a minute more - no audio drops. I rewound back to the the "Viewer discretion advised" warning - no audio drop. I stopped the playback and started over. The audio drops occurred. Rewound, no audio drop nor any in the intro recap of the show. Haven't had this happen before.

So if anyone else watches the show, report in.

[plasmacat]

I had the audio drop issue with Bones season premiere last night. This was the first time I watched anything on Fox in ages. I have 613 on a 622. I was viewing recorded material.

[phrelin]

Unfortunately, because we have family visiting, I haven't had much chance to watch TV, but we did watch Bones last night and had the audio drop. Stupidly I deleted it. Then I woke up this morning with a thought.

I do have Prison Break, which I haven't watched, but had checked and it has a consistent audio drop at the beginning during the "Viewer discretion advised" announcement. I double checked and the drop was still there.

I had my DVR set to 1080i. I changed it to 720p. No audio drop. I went back and forth changing the settings. It consistently dropped when the DVR was set to 1080i, but not on 720p.

I'm hoping someone can either verify my experience or find that their experience is not the same as mine.

[RTCDude]

Unfortunately, because we have family visiting, I haven't had much chance to watch TV, but we did watch Bones last night and had the audio drop. Stupidly I deleted it. Then I woke up this morning with a thought.

I do have Prison Break, which I haven't watched, but had checked and it has a consistent audio drop at the beginning during the "Viewer discretion advised" announcement. I double checked and the drop was still there.

I had my DVR set to 1080i. I changed it to 720p. No audio drop. I went back and forth changing the settings. It consistently dropped when the DVR was set to 1080i, but not on 720p.

I'm hoping someone can either verify my experience or find that their experience is not the same as mine.
phrelin,

Just so that there isn't any confusion doing a test, let me check two facts.

1) You were testing with a HD program "recorded" from from one of your Dish provided local channels, NOT an OTA recording. Correct?

2) Please give me the 722 navigation numbers to the menu screen you were changing to 720p, and exactly which option on the screen.

If you can get me those answers this evening, I will test this later tonight and post the results.

Here's hoping!!!!!

[phrelin]

phrelin,

Just so that there isn't any confusion doing a test, let me check two facts.

1) You were testing with a HD program "recorded" from from one of your Dish provided local channels, NOT an OTA recording. Correct?Correct.

2) Please give me the 722 navigation numbers to the menu screen you were changing to 720p, and exactly which option on the screen.

6,8, TV Type switching back and forth between 1080i and 720p

If you can get me those answers this evening, I will test this later tonight and post the results.

Here's hoping!!!!!I'd be curious to see what happens if you have any Fox or ABC network programming to test it on. Also, I don't have an HDMI connection. I'm using component with optical audio. Someone on another thread uses HDMI and indicated he uses the 720p setting and has the problem. So I fear my experience was just a quirk of some kind.

[RTCDude]

I'd be curious to see what happens if you have any Fox or ABC network programming to test it on. Also, I don't have an HDMI connection. I'm using component with optical audio. Someone on another thread uses HDMI and indicated he uses the 720p setting and has the problem. So I fear my experience was just a quirk of some kind.

Well, sadly it didn't work for me. I tried both the 10:00 oclock news on FOX and the 11:00 oclock news on ABC. The dropouts were no more or less with 720p as they were with 1080i. And also, I'm using HMDI with and optical cable. I guess you're just lucky. However, I'm wondering if it could be your using a component cable.

Maybe somebody else could do the test.

[phrelin]

Well, sadly it didn't work for me. I tried both the 10:00 oclock news on FOX and the 11:00 oclock news on ABC. The dropouts were no more or less with 720p as they were with 1080i. And also, I'm using HMDI with and optical cable. I guess you're just lucky. However, I'm wondering if it could be your using a component cable.

Maybe somebody else could do the test.My guess is that it was a quirk of that particular recording, unfortunately. But thanks for trying. I'm not going to communicate with Dish tech about it until someone makes it happen on another recording.

[phrelin]

I sent this followup on my ongoing exchange to tech@echostar.com , dishquality@echostar.com , ceo@dishnetwork.com , with a cc to KGO-TV.Engineering@abc.com for what it's worth.
Folks at Dish Network:

I recognize that complaints are difficult to prioritize. But even though my complaint is focused on the San Francisco Bay Area, the problem is widespread in many DMA's throughout the country and it will become the serious problem for you this month.

HD customers not being able to watch ABC and Fox HD feeds as the fall season starts rolling out is a real problem compared to your effort at 1080p for a handful of HD customers. It might be irritating for some 1080p-enabled TV owners not to be able to watch a couple of movies on demand in 1080p, but if you haven't solved this broadcast TV audio problem before the last week of this month, you are going to lose alot of HD customers and defeat the whole purpose of your TurboHD rollout.

For example, someone from the Midwest posted today in the ViP622/ViP722 - L5.12/L6.10/L6.12 Audio Related Issues Discussions (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343) thread on DBSTalk:

"Today's Fox News Sunday was unwatchable. I recorded it from the HD sat Channel and for some reason, the show was in SD (no way knowing if this was a network issue or if someone just forgot to throw a local switch). Regardless, the audio was as bad as I have ever seen (heard?) it. It was very under-water-sounding and just chock full of dropouts throughout the hour. Even the wife (who is pretty oblivious at times) was furious and asked why we must keep putting up with this.

"I'm at my wit's end......"


This expression of family frustration is no small matter as the Summer comes to an end. The audio problem deserves to be the only problem solved by a focused L6.14 software release. At this time, I don't read about any other problems with HD on the 622/722 series on DBSTalk forum that are as basic to TV viewing as this one problem.

Sincerely

(ME)

[plasmacat]

The audio seemed fine on Fox for the Niners game Sunday.

[phrelin]

OK. This is weird. I had no problem with "Terminator: Sarah Conner" on Fox 2 when watching the show itself, but did have audio drops in the breaks. Did anyone else experience this?

[plasmacat]

OK. This is weird. I had no problem with "Terminator: Sarah Conner" on Fox 2 when watching the show itself, but did have audio drops in the breaks. Did anyone else experience this?

Yes but there were some drops in the show near the beginning. I tested out all options - switching from 1080i to 720p, switching from listening on optical output to my receiver to HDMI output directly to my TV - nothing made any difference - still got the dropouts. Since I was watching a recorded show I rewound the trouble spots to test those options and the audio drops and garbles were always there.

[phrelin]

Yes but there were some drops in the show near the beginning. I tested out all options - switching from 1080i to 720p, switching from listening on optical output to my receiver to HDMI output directly to my TV - nothing made any difference - still got the dropouts. Since I was watching a recorded show I rewound the trouble spots to test those options and the audio drops and garbles were always there.Were those drops in the "previously on" scenes?

[plasmacat]

Um - not sure. I was so intent on the audio problem I wasn't paying attention.

[plasmacat]

Since I was able to get a good signal last night with my rabbit ears I watched Fringe OTA to my 622 and no audio problems at all.
So am interested to hear if there were dropouts from those who watched it on Dish.

[phrelin]

Since I was able to get a good signal last night with my rabbit ears I watched Fringe OTA to my 622 and no audio problems at all.
So am interested to hear if there were dropouts from those who watched it on Dish.The show itself was clean for me. But the "slates" they put up leading to breaks and commercials were dropout filled. Of couse this is a recording. Did you watch a recorded OTA?

[dmspen]

I've been getting the drops also. Most of the time they are miniscule - less than a second. Irritating though...

[RTCDude]

Since I was able to get a good signal last night with my rabbit ears I watched Fringe OTA to my 622 and no audio problems at all.
So am interested to hear if there were dropouts from those who watched it on Dish.
While I don't have direct evidence, I think the general trend is that anything OTA has no dropouts, either watched live or recorded.

Could someone try to confirm this? Record channel 2 10:00 news OTA. During playback, see if there are any dropouts during the weather; particularly during the 7 day forcast slate.

[plasmacat]

The show itself was clean for me. But the "slates" they put up leading to breaks and commercials were dropout filled. Of couse this is a recording. Did you watch a recorded OTA?

Yes, it was a recorded OTA.

[Banin]

I experienced the exact same things watching Terminator and Fringe. On Terminator the show as fine except for the very beginning, but the ads had drop outs. And on Fringe the show was fine, but the splash page saying when the show would be back and the ads had dropouts. Both shows I watched through Dish, not OTA, and recorded on the DVR.

[dmspen]

Ditto for me.

I experienced the exact same things watching Terminator and Fringe. On Terminator the show as fine except for the very beginning, but the ads had drop outs. And on Fringe the show was fine, but the splash page saying when the show would be back and the ads had dropouts. Both shows I watched through Dish, not OTA, and recorded on the DVR.

[SteveinDanville]

Tried watching the recording of the Sarah Palin interview and the audio drops drove me crazy. Dish, when are you going to fix this thing? The election hangs on this!!!

[phrelin]

Just to let everyone here know, I posted this message (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1795523#post1795523) on the sticky 622/722 audio problem thread that Dish Quality is trading me 722's because they could not recreate the problem and needed the recordings with dropout.

Also, I did replace my trusty old 508's with a ViP612 yesterday, recorded the same shows on the 722 and 612, and had no dropouts on the 612.

[phrelin]

For everyone's information, L6.14 did not solve the momentary audio dropout problem but I didn't expect it to. I have L6.14 on my 722 and the recording of KGO7 (San Francisco Bay Area ABC affiliate) 11 a.m. news has many, many dropouts.

Supposedly I'll be getting my replacement 722 today so that I can send mine with defective recordings on it to Dish.

[Doug E]

Thanks Phrelin for your consistent updates. FYI, I continue to experience excessive audio dropouts on my 722 KGO recordings as well.

[phrelin]

I just sent this email to the Dish Quality folks I've been working with: The replacement ViP722 went into a boot loop and wouldn't work. It went through the download process, rebooted and then kept rebooting never going to another screen. I spent over an hour on the phone with a very knowledgeable tech support representative trying a few of the usual and some not so usual things to try to get control of the box, but no luck. He's arranged for another replacement to be shipped. My current ViP722 worked fine when I reconnected it.

This is, of course, rather frustrating for all involved. The replacement was a remanufactured unit. Perhaps a new one might have been a better choice, but it's your call.I don't even know what to say here.:nono2:

[dmspen]

Yesterday, my 15 year old daughter asked me why the sound skipped on commercials. If she can notice, it's getting bad. We were watching a recorded episode of House.

[Paul Secic]

OK. This is weird. I had no problem with "Terminator: Sarah Conner" on Fox 2 when watching the show itself, but did have audio drops in the breaks. Did anyone else experience this?

I get picture and audio drops from KRON4 on my HD set and on my analog set. But I get drop out on some premiums.

[Kevin Brown]

Does everyone have this problem? I just got upgraded to a 722 (well, 3 weeks ago), and I had the guy come again to reorient the Dish because the signal from 129 was low, and yes, sometimes I see this during commercial breaks, but it is really rare. And I haven't seen it at all during any shows. Sarah Connor, Fringe, etc. ??

[phrelin]

Does everyone have this problem? I just got upgraded to a 722 (well, 3 weeks ago), and I had the guy come again to reorient the Dish because the signal from 129 was low, and yes, sometimes I see this during commercial breaks, but it is really rare. And I haven't seen it at all during any shows. Sarah Connor, Fringe, etc. ??Except for local news, and on KGO (ABC) it's been really bad at times, it has been mostly commercials. At one point this past summer it was worse on the network stuff. But not as much now with Fox. I have recording conflicts, so I'm recording KGO and KTVU on my 612. If there was a problem with "Dancing With The Stars" on ABC I'd appreciate it if someone would let us know here.

[RTCDude]

Except for local news, and on KGO (ABC) it's been really bad at times, it has been mostly commercials. At one point this past summer it was worse on the network stuff. But not as much now with Fox. I have recording conflicts, so I'm recording KGO and KTVU on my 612. If there was a problem with "Dancing With The Stars" on ABC I'd appreciate it if someone would let us know here.
With my 722, it's as bad as it every was for both ABC and FOX. It's absolutely the worst during the 10 and 11 o'clock news. As other have said, you don't have many, if any, dropouts during video with lots of motion over the entire scene. But still images (like the five day forcast, or a mugshot graphic) will drop half or more of the audio. Since the news has lots of both, it's almost un-watchable.

[Todd Nicholson]

I'm still getting terrible dropouts on Jeopardy on Komo4 ABC in Seattle. I've had to resort to recording the SD version now instead of the HD version.

[lee635]

So I wonder what the technical problem is? Maybe the video is driving the mpeg equipment, because you lose sound during periods of still (or nearly still) video.

On a related note, one of my personal pet peeves with terrestrial digitial tv is that when the signal drops low you lose audio and video. I wish that there was maybe more correction data (i.e. parity files?) dedicated to the audio, so that audio would be the last to go. There's so little data invovled in audio versus video that if even very small increase in correction data for the audio would allow you to keep the audio for much longer as the signal level falls.

Alas, I've become something of a generalist, so I'm not so involved in the technical stuff anymore.

[SteveinDanville]

I'm sure that others have seen this, but it is really frustrating with my 622. If I'm watching KGO news live on the HD feed, and then pause to catch a quick phone call, when I resume play, the audio dropouts start immediately. If I then hit "Stop" to go back to live with no buffering, the dropouts stop. How is it that Dish can't recreate this problem? Now I'm getting no response from their technical site after a week...

[Kevin Brown]

Does everyone have this problem? I just got upgraded to a 722 (well, 3 weeks ago), and I had the guy come again to reorient the Dish because the signal from 129 was low, and yes, sometimes I see this during commercial breaks, but it is really rare. And I haven't seen it at all during any shows. Sarah Connor, Fringe, etc. ??

I shouldn't have said anything, because it was a lot worse this week during Sarah Connor. Really bad at the beginning, OK during the episode for the most part, and then got a little bit bad at the end. Yeah, worst during non-motion frames. Wierd.

Any correlation to whether the drive is recording something else at the same time? In my case this week, it was, and it seemed worse for me than before, when maybe watching the recorded show was the only thing I was doing. ??

[dward]

Its not just happening on the west coast....happening on the east coast also....

All kinds of audio drops with recorded material.

I sent an email complaining to E*....

D

[tcatdbs]

I've been noticing audio problems the past 2 weeks, as far as I can tell it's only on local HD channels. It's also not an "audio drop", it's more like there's a little guy inside my TV with an Arc Welder. Something is "zapping" the audio for a few seconds, very randomly (very loud). Happened a lot on Knight Rider, live and recorded. It's happening on both my 722 and 211. I haven't noticed it on anything other than Local HD.

Could this be any of my equipment, or more likely something from the local stations?

[Banin]

it was a lot worse this week during Sarah Connor. Really bad at the beginning, OK during the episode for the most part, and then got a little bit bad at the end. Yeah, worst during non-motion frames.

Same for me. I was glad it cleared up some after the beginning, because it was so bad then I almost gave up.

[phrelin]

Just to let everyone know. FedEx picked up my ViP722 at 3:02 pm PDT. Hopefully Echostar Engineering will receive it Monday and can begin working with the recordings on it that have the audio dropout.

[tsanders3]

I have the ViP 612 installed about three weeks ago. I am in SC and on the Eastern Arc. It is plugged into my Sony Bravia via HDMI. No other external speakers other than the internals. Also have the box plugged into the internet. Recorded the Office Thursday. Was watching other things while it was recording. Went to watch today and it had MANY audio drops. Most for 2 to three seconds. This is local HD threw Dish not OTA. I can also get it to drop while I am browsing the guide. Has done it on other programs. Downloaded a movie from the DISHOnline and it had some audio drops. I am thinking it could be the receiver. I am planning on calling as it is a new box and it is not getting better. Could it be software? have tried the reset and force reset by holding power in 10 seconds. Leave it off at night for any updates. That is my experience.

[phrelin]

I have the ViP 612 installed about three weeks ago. I am in SC and on the Eastern Arc. It is plugged into my Sony Bravia via HDMI. No other external speakers other than the internals. Also have the box plugged into the internet. Recorded the Office Thursday. Was watching other things while it was recording. Went to watch today and it had MANY audio drops. Most for 2 to three seconds. This is local HD threw Dish not OTA. I can also get it to drop while I am browsing the guide. Has done it on other programs. Downloaded a movie from the DISHOnline and it had some audio drops. I am thinking it could be the receiver. I am planning on calling as it is a new box and it is not getting better. Could it be software? have tried the reset and force reset by holding power in 10 seconds. Leave it off at night for any updates. That is my experience.My new 612 is giving me video/audio frame loss on my 612. It isn't like the audio dropouts on the 722 that when skipped back occur on different words or syllables. I also am thinking about asking for a replacement 612.

[tsanders3]

I called Dish about the below problem and they wanted me to check my signal strength. It usually between 34 to 47 either sat. They told me it should at least be in the 50s and if it get low if could cause video or sound drops. We will see


I have the ViP 612 installed about three weeks ago. I am in SC and on the Eastern Arc. It is plugged into my Sony Bravia via HDMI. No other external speakers other than the internals. Also have the box plugged into the internet. Recorded the Office Thursday. Was watching other things while it was recording. Went to watch today and it had MANY audio drops. Most for 2 to three seconds. This is local HD threw Dish not OTA. I can also get it to drop while I am browsing the guide. Has done it on other programs. Downloaded a movie from the DISHOnline and it had some audio drops. I am thinking it could be the receiver. I am planning on calling as it is a new box and it is not getting better. Could it be software? have tried the reset and force reset by holding power in 10 seconds. Leave it off at night for any updates. That is my experience.

[phrelin]

I called Dish about the below problem and they wanted me to check my signal strength. It usually between 34 to 47 either sat. They told me it should at least be in the 50s and if it get low if could cause video or sound drops. We will seeMy HD locals are on 119 with signals well above 50 as are most transponders for other channels not on 129. The ones on 129 range from a low of 29 to a high of 52. The problems I'm having on my ViP612 are occuring on the channels with a high signal and channels with a low signal. Playing a bit, I'm testing to see if the problem occurs when I don't watch something else (skipping commercials, of course) while two HD channels are recording as the problem has all the feel of a processor/ram/hard drive miscue that can cause even my dual processor PC to struggle when I have six or seven windows open with two or three working with video and graphics.

[Banin]

Simpsons and Family Guy were pretty much unwatchable last night. Thankfully I caught Family Guy when it was starting and was able to switch to OTA, which had no drop outs.

phrelin, now that you have a new 722 (assuming you do since you sent your old one) do you still get dropouts? Is a replacement box the answer?

[phrelin]

Simpsons and Family Guy were pretty much unwatchable last night. Thankfully I caught Family Guy when it was starting and was able to switch to OTA, which had no drop outs.

phrelin, now that you have a new 722 (assuming you do since you sent your old one) do you still get dropouts? Is a replacement box the answer?The replacement 722 has the dropouts. That doesn't appear to be a solution unless I just have terrible luck.;)

[Kevin Brown]

Phrelin- I'm hoping something will come out of you giving your 722 to them with recordings on it with dropouts. :)

[dmspen]

I watched the season premier of Grey's Anatomy last night. It was almost unwatchable due to the audio dropouts. Signal strength is high. It almost seems like an audio decoding problem. I'm running my audio through a receiver. Does anyone have the problem with a direct line to their TV?

I'm really thinking of calling DISH and asking for a refund for locals. 2 of the 4 or 5 locals have bad audio.

[phrelin]

The Engineering Supervisor has promised to let me know if they make a progress on the problem. I'm not holding my breath as I think it probably is a decoding problem which could be complicated. But who knows.

[RTCDude]

The Engineering Supervisor has promised to let me know if they make a progress on the problem. I'm not holding my breath as I think it probably is a decoding problem which could be complicated. But who knows.
Having the supervisor promising to let you know "IF" they make progress isn't very encouraging!?!?!?!

--------

Also, having been in the realtime embedded software industry for more than 25 years now, I'd guess this is a data overrun problem. That is, Dish has now got the 722/622's CPU so busy (with that latest frimware updates) that it doesn't always get back to capturing all of the audio data packets coming from the satellite data stream. When watching the stream live, there may be just enough time to get each audio packet as they come in. When buffering or recording, the CPU is now somehow doing enough extra work to miss some audio data packets before the next one comes in.

Why this would be triggered by LESS motion in the video is still a bit of a mystery. But it could be that Dish is using some aspect of the MPEG4 decompression trigger getting audio packets. Less motion would mean less I-video packets per second (video packets that contain only the differences from the previous video packet). Hence, less opportunities per second to look for and capture audio data packets.

I also suspect that this problem is triggered by the video that is delivered to Dish, and how it is encoded. Perhaps some particular brand of encoder, or maybe a specific data format. And it could just happen that this encoding is the same that some ABC and FOX affiliates uses system wide. This could explain why only ABC and FOX channels seem to be effected, and why only some markets.

All of this is still just speculation, but when you've been in this industry for long enough, you get to be able to recognize characteristic classes of problems. Of course only Dish can say for sure. I suspect they will actually be able to quite quickly diagnose "why" this is a problem. However, it might be some time before they know how to "fix" it.

[phrelin]

Having the supervisor promising to let you know "IF" they make progress isn't very encouraging!?!?!?!

--------

Also, having been in the realtime embedded software industry for more than 25 years now, I'd guess this is a data overrun problem. That is, Dish has now got the 722/622's CPU so busy (with that latest frimware updates) that it doesn't always get back to capturing all of the audio data packets coming from the satellite data stream. When watching the stream live, there may be just enough time to get each audio packet as they come in. When buffering or recording, the CPU is now somehow doing enough extra work to miss some audio data packets before the next one comes in.

Why this would be triggered by LESS motion in the video is still a bit of a mystery. But it could be that Dish is using some aspect of the MPEG4 decompression trigger getting audio packets. Less motion would mean less I-video packets per second (video packets that contain only the differences from the previous video packet). Hence, less opportunities per second to look for and capture audio data packets.

I also suspect that this problem is triggered by the video that is delivered to Dish, and how it is encoded. Perhaps some particular brand of encoder, or maybe a specific data format. And it could just happen that this encoding is the same that some ABC and FOX affiliates uses system wide. This could explain why only ABC and FOX channels seem to be effected, and why only some markets.

All of this is still just speculation, but when you've been in this industry for long enough, you get to be able to recognize characteristic classes of problems. Of course only Dish can say for sure. I suspect they will actually be able to quite quickly diagnose "why" this is a problem. However, it might be some time before they know how to "fix" it.That's an interesting analysis. It "feels" like that, a computer "overworked". Some of the other things that I'm experiencing with the 722 and the 612 "feel" like a similar problem.

That's one of the reason why inside my head I groaned when I started reading about the "722S" (or 922), marrying a Slingbox and a 722 with a larger hard drive. At some point it seems to me within the video media community there are just too many variables in hardware combined with compression utilities to make all that work well in one box. It may seem cool to the tech community. But it's the historical down side of Windows as opposed to Apple within the average home. It's supposed to work when you hook up a few wires to a wide variety of audio and video equipment manufactured by hundreds of companies and turn it on, without having to know anything about 720p/1080i, much less algorithms.

But what do I know? I started with computers in 1970 when they filled rooms and somewhere around 1995 I began to be more and more removed from the details of the technical elements and programming.

In the 1980's I used to be called "magnetic fingers" because I could sit down at any troubled computer and "feel it out" to get it to run. That sense of "feel" tells me the current ViP's are underpowered for what is expected of them, even if they are the best out there. And I suspect this feeling would disappear if they were using algorithms that are similar to TiVo's patents. Or in the alternative quadruple the processor capabilities and cache.

I also know this stuff is well beyond my ancient technical expertise. So it's good to read analytical comments from someone more familiar with the computer industry today.

[Kevin Brown]

Ah HA !!

I noted that I thought my dropouts were worse when I was recording something else while watching a recorded Fox show. Hmmm... But are the dropouts recorded, or we are just experiencing them on decoding/playback of the raw stream?

Also, and I admit I can't remember, but Fox and ABC are 720p, the rest are all 1080i? 720p does take more bandwitch. ??

[phrelin]

Ah HA !!

I noted that I thought my dropouts were worse when I was recording something else while watching a recorded Fox show. Hmmm... But are the dropouts recorded, or we are just experiencing them on decoding/playback of the raw stream?

Also, and I admit I can't remember, but Fox and ABC are 720p, the rest are all 1080i? 720p does take more bandwitch. ??Whatever causes the dropouts is actually recorded. My ViP612 does not have dropouts. But I moved a recording from my ViP722 to my EHD and then played it on my 612 - the dropout was there. It is true that Fox and ABC are 720p. There are some in other DMA's that say they are experiencing the problem on NBC, but I have not seen this exact problem on anything but Fox and ABC.

[RTCDude]

Whatever causes the dropouts is actually recorded. My ViP612 does not have dropouts. But I moved a recording from my ViP722 to my EHD and then played it on my 612 - the dropout was there. It is true that Fox and ABC are 720p. There are some in other DMA's that say they are experiencing the problem on NBC, but I have not seen this exact problem on anything but Fox and ABC.
Just a thought. What happens if you move a recording made on your 612 to your 722?

[Paul Secic]

The Engineering Supervisor has promised to let me know if they make a progress on the problem. I'm not holding my breath as I think it probably is a decoding problem which could be complicated. But who knows.

I don't have problems with 7 except for their HD bug which is indented 3/4 from the right side of my screen.

[beachcamp]

Whatever causes the dropouts is actually recorded. My ViP612 does not have dropouts. But I moved a recording from my ViP722 to my EHD and then played it on my 612 - the dropout was there. It is true that Fox and ABC are 720p. There are some in other DMA's that say they are experiencing the problem on NBC, but I have not seen this exact problem on anything but Fox and ABC.

I am in Dallas, and I have seen this problem on NBC, CBS, FOX and ABC at various times. This is really getting old!!

[Kevin Brown]

I wonder if it's a *sensitivity* type thing. In other words, 1st, it doesn't seem to affect all HD DVR users (boxes). But when it does happen, it hits Fox and ABC 1st, just because 720p requires more bandwidth than 1080i. But if it's bad enough, *then* it starts to affect other channels. Variability in DVRs? Electronics? For example, I just watched this week's Sarah Connor and Fringe, and I don't think I saw any this week. (DVR box gets hot, dropouts get worse? Etc.)

[phrelin]

Truthfully, I've recently gotten some audio dropout on NBC and CBS but when I skip back it isn't there which makes it different in "appearance" than ABC and Fox dropout which when skipped back occur on different syllables.

Also it is there on ABC and Fox on my replacement box. But it's not there on my 612.

So for now, I'm recording CBS and NBC on my 722 and ABC and Fox on my 612. I'd like to say this makes it problem-free but I get video dropout/pixelation on my 722 and "frame jumping" on my 612. HBO and HDNet are fine on either. There's just so many variables, it's hard to figure what to complain about and none of these problems are bad enough yet to make a show unwatchable.

But at least in the San Francisco Bay Area, there are times that the ABC and Fox affiliates have had so much audio dropout on my 722 that you couldn't watch the show you've recorded.

[snappingturtle]

My understanding is that 720p content is 60fps rather than 30fps. I imagine that it may be a 60fps video buffering issue of some sort. That might explain why we don't see this type of audio dropout problems with 480i or 1080i broadcasts.

I'm glad to hear they've addressed this on the 612. I hope they get on the ball and fix this soon on the 722.

[tsanders3]

Review: I called Dish on the audio drops and they thought it was the lower signal strength I was getting. Usually in the high 30s and low 40s.

Dish sent someone out and they said the signal strength was low and then they moved the dish a little. This got the signal up to between 40-50.

Since then I have not had as much audio drops as before. I still get it frequently when I am in the guide with the picture in the corner. It is better than before.

On the Eastern Arc with new ViP612. HDMI cable to 1080p Sony Bravia 40inch.

[Todd Nicholson]

My locals come through 110 and my signal strengths on the ABC and Fox transponders vary between 68-72. Audio drops are still very bad, especially on ABC. Again, it's only recorded or buffered material. Not live, so I don't see how signal strength has anything to do with this issue. Something is up with the software and hopefully they'll get to the bottom of it.

[feffer]

I've been experiencing the same audio drops on ABC and Fox that others have noted. Level 1 tech support seems unaware of it, but an email to dishquality@echostar.com was answered this way a few days ago: Dear Mr. Pepper,

Thank you for your information! We are aware of the issue. Our
Software Team for the 622/722 receivers is currently looking into it.
To investigate this issue, our Software Engineering team is currently
dissecting one of the boxes that we have retrieved from a customer. We
are also in the process of retrieving another box for that same team.
Hopefully, they will find a resolution soon. The fix will most likely
come in the form of a software download. We will keep looking into the
issue and trying to get it resolved. It will be a matter of getting the
problem identified and then corrected. Unfortunately, sometimes these
things take awhile and then other times it is a matter of a few minutes.

We appreciate the time DISH Network customers take to email their
audio/video quality concerns. Thank you for your patience, information,
and for being a valued customer.

EchoStar Technologies LLC

Quality Assurance Department

dishquality@echostar.com
It is disconcerting that Dish has delayed this for so long, it's hard to imagine that they couldn't have recreated it, if they were serious. I tend to agree that this might be an encoding/decoding issue which means the best way to resolve it would be cooperation between ABC and Dish. I saw a previous comment from ABC that stated essentially that their feed was fine since Cable and DirectTV didn't have a problem. Perhaps some more pressure on ABC would help--maybe something to the effect that finger pointing is not appreciated, and that we viewers are getting a bad experience from their new Fall shows, please cooperate with Dish to fix this!

Regards,
feffer

[phrelin]

Because the dropout appears to occur in less than a dozen of DMA's across the country, I accept the fact that they couldn't recreate it in Denver. I also accept the response from KGO 7, ABC San Francisco, that they couldn't figure out the problem from their side of the feed to Dish.

Because there are more than a few posts around about the problem occurring on ESPN, my gut tells me it's something to do with the way Dish handles incoming 720p feeds. But who knows? It could also be some piece of equipment used by Fox and ABC in these DMA's doesn't interface properly with Dish.

[dalycitymike]

Ok, after much experimentation, here is what I found....

The audio drop-outs are most frequent in the following situations:

When watching the KTVU HD Satellite feed, if the program being watched (like simpsons, family guy, american dad) is actually in STANDARD DEFINITION, the audio dropouts make the show unwatchable.

When the program is being broadcast in HD, the audio is usually pretty good (like House, Fringe, etc) but just before going to a SD commercial and just after coming back to the HD programming, the audio will usually blip out once or twice.

Sooooo.... I decided last sunday to try recording the sunday evening 'toons block on FOX from the KTVU SD satellite feed -- and what do you know? No audio dropouts at all.....

What this tells me is that there's some serious problem with how Dish is processing audio for the HD feed, especially for content that's not "actually" in HD (commercials, cartoons, etc).

At least I can actually watch my favorite sunday evening shows now, though -- they weren't really in HD anyhow, so it doesn't bother me to record the in SD -- but Dish seriously needs to get this fixed.

[phrelin]

Just a thought. What happens if you move a recording made on your 612 to your 722?I didn't think to try this before you suggested it. :icon_dumm

So Thursday I recorded Ugly Betty from ABC on my 612. Today I moved it to my EHD and restored it to my 722. Dropouts galore.

Unfortunately, I was too stupid to have first tried watching it on my 612. :icon_dumm

So I have to move it back tomorrow and see if the dropouts aren't there or perhaps are there but just too subtle for this old guy to notice without cranking the volume a bit.

[Matt20V]

Ok, after much experimentation, here is what I found....

The audio drop-outs are most frequent in the following situations:

When watching the KTVU HD Satellite feed, if the program being watched (like simpsons, family guy, american dad) is actually in STANDARD DEFINITION, the audio dropouts make the show unwatchable.

When the program is being broadcast in HD, the audio is usually pretty good (like House, Fringe, etc) but just before going to a SD commercial and just after coming back to the HD programming, the audio will usually blip out once or twice.



That is exactly consistent with my experience. We haven't been able to watch The Simpsons in some time now:mad: I'll try your suggestion for recording from the SD version of KTVU.

Matt
San Jose

[phrelin]

On different threads I've received different questions about the audio dropout which I finally found time to followup on.

In my initial report I said that my recordings from my ViP722 when moved via EHD to my ViP612 had dropouts when played. Per a question, I recorded Thursday's Ugly Betty (ABC KGO 7) on my ViP612. It appears to play without dropouts on my ViP612, but when moved to my ViP722 and played it was unwatchable because there were so many dropouts.

And, in response to another question, the dropouts occur when the show is watched on our kitchen TV from the ViP722's TV1 analog coax RF output.

[INHUMANITY]

I started this thread back in July and I am STILL getting audio drops on both FOX and ABC.

This is beyond unacceptable. I’ve been sending E* e-mail’s a few times a month since July with the same canned responses you guys have been getting.

One user mentioned Terminator being OK, but commercials dropping. I have that problem as well. There are audio drops with Terminator, but it is not overwhelming like in Family Guy, American Dad, and The Simpsons.

I am watching Sunday's The Simpsons right now and it’s torture.

I have had to resort to Hulu and other sources.

Real smooth E*.

I went over to my cousins to see if he was experiecing the same problem on his 722 setup. He is. :mad:

[phrelin]

I'm posting this in the three threads related to the audio problem. I have been hearing some slight audio dropout in channels other than ABC and Fox locals. Nothing real obvious, but it was there. Tonight on NCIS (recorded on my 722 from the San Francisco local CBS local KPIX 5) there was a significant dropout during the previews for next week which I could "skip" back on and have dropout again but in different spots.

Sigh.... Yes, I reported it to Echostar Engineering.

Anyone else seeing this specific problem on CBS or NBC, yet? If so would you post an answer on the ViP622/ViP722 - L5.12/L6.10/L6.12 Audio Related Issues Discussions (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343) sticky thread as the moderators would like to start keeping this information together in one place and it will keep me from having to post on multiple threads.

[Todd Nicholson]

I have yet to notice it on any other stations other than Fox and ABC. And honestly, it seems to only happen when SD material is being broadcast on the HD channel. For instance, Terminator is fine, but drops in the SD commercials. Simpsons is bad and that's SD. No problems with Cops, which is HD. No problems with Fox NFL football (HD) or ABC college football (when HD). Jeopardy is terrible, too. Yet again SD. At least on my end, it seems that if it's an actual HD broadcast, no audio drops, but if it's an SD broadcast on the HD channel, then audio drops. No audio drops on the SD version the channel (recording Jeopardy on ABC SD now). And of course this is for buffered or recorded Fox and ABC programming. No issues live.

[Ron Barry]

Ok... It has become obvisous that we it appears we are talking about the same thing as the Audio thread in our support forums. So to avoid the need to cross post which is a violation of forum rules I am going to close this thread. Please continue to post in the Sticky thread below and thanks for all the feedback. Hopefully they will be able to get a handle on this one an squash it soon.

ViP622/ViP722 - L5.12/L6.10/L6.12 Audio Related Issues Discussions (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134343)