DBSTalk First Look: Slimline3 ODU

[RobertE]

Back at the end of March, Earl opened a thread about the Slimline 3 aka SL3 after it showed up in the CE releases. See thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=124403

Well, now more information is available about the Slimline 3.

So, I’m presenting you all with a Sneak Peak/Preview of the Slimline 3.

First I’ll go over known items then I’ll go into some personal speculation.

SL3 LNB. “Sees” 3 orbital locations 99/101/103. Does not and will not see 110/119 locations.

Four outputs on the LNB. Just like today’s Phase III, AT9 & AU9 ODUs.

Fully compatible with the WB68, WB616 & SWM5/8 switches. Also compatible with current receivers. Note: You will need a H20, HR20 or R22 or newer receiver to get any programming from the 99/103 locations. A future D series receiver may or may not be released that will see 99/103.

Installation is nearly identical to that of the AT9/AU9 with the exception that the tilt is preset on the ground based on zip code. There is no “need” to adjust the tilt after installation. That is of course predicated on the mast being plumb.

Update 7/24
Beginning on 7/31, HSPs in 72.5 and SD Local markets will start seeing Work Order Activities with the SL3

The SL3 began shipping this week to the affected HSP offices.

Now for my speculation/educated guesses.

This dish is set to be the standard installation dish for both SD & HD installs in markets where locals are beamed from the 99/101/103 locations. In those markets where locals come from 110/119, you will still get the AU9.
This should simplify and reduce the number of dishes that should have to be stocked and carried daily by techs. DirecTv will go from four ODUs being installed: 18”, Phase III, World Direct, & Ka/Ku ODUs down to just two: SL3 & AU9. I’m assuming that at some point international programming will be moved either to 99/103 or to 110/119 or both. My bet will be 99/103. You can put a good number of SD channels on a few Ka transponders. DirecTv 12 maybe?

While I don’t have exact measurements of the ODU itself, from the material I do have, it appears to be identical in size and shape of the current Slimline. So for those of you (me included) hoping for a smaller lighter ODU, sorry.

The LNB is pretty simple as well. Take the AT9 LNB, remove the 110/119 sidecar jumpers and there you go. The illustration looks very similar. At this point, don’t assume that you can re-run the sat setup and select the Slimline 3 from the setup and expect things to work ok. It is unknown at this point as to what changes, if any, have been made to the control signals.

I do also believe there will be a SWM version of the LNB as well.

I do not have a time frame for availability or cost.

The pictures were photoshopped to add the DBSTalk.com Text. Other than that, they are as they appear in the training materials.

Enjoy & discuss.

http://hr20.dbstalk.com/images/SL3/SL3%20LNB.jpg

http://hr20.dbstalk.com/images/SL3/SL3%20ODU%20LNB.jpg

[Mertzen]

So will it still use 2" mast and require monopoles ? I think that is the main concern from techs.

[RobertE]

So will it still use 2" mast and require monopoles ? I think that is the main concern from techs.

From what I can tell, yes. :(

The only difference that I've been able to discern so far is that it's just a different LNB. Everything else is the same.

[Tom Robertson]

The dish, base, and mast are identical to the other Slimline units, as far as I know.

(And anyone with a sidecar, please don't unplug your sidecar. It will not work the same as the Slimline 3.)

Cheers,
Tom

[hdtvfan0001]

Before anyone brings it up...yes...it also includes HR21 series HD DVR support...

Great Job Robert!

[Mertzen]

Meh, That really is a bummer. Many of us hoped that once this dish came out it would use the same OD as the phase 3 / 18" so upgrades would be dish off dish on. Oh well as long as HD jobs get extra pay it makes not that much difference.
So where's he pics at ?

[Stuart Sweet]

Well done Robert! I'm pleased to change the title of this thread and include it with other first looks!

[MIAMI1683]

Robert,

Thanks again for all the information. As always it's a big help

[Greg Alsobrook]

Nice job Robert! Thanks for the info.!

[jodyguercio]

Robert,

Thanks again for all the information. As always it's a big help

Nice job Robert! Thanks for the info.!

These two beat me to it but still good job. Keep us updated.

[Michael D'Angelo]

Nice job Robert and thanks for the info!!!

[Doug Brott]

Robert, thanks for the update.

[Mertzen]

This really looks rather quickly done. With the viewing angle so vastly reduced I don't see why they don't work on a smaller reflector.

[RobertE]

This really looks rather quickly done. With the viewing angle so vastly reduced I don't see why they don't work on a smaller reflector.

Somewhat surprised myself that it's doesn't appear smaller.

While I'm no engineer, I imagine the kept it the same size for a couple of reasons. One they need as much space as OTARD will allow to get the most gain from the Ka beam. Then they already have the design & manufacturing process in place for everything other than the LNB. Some minor tweaks to the AT9 LNB and presto, a cheaper dish.

[evan_s]

(And anyone with a sidecar, please don't unplug your sidecar. It will not work the same as the Slimline 3.)

Cheers,
Tom

Can you provide any info on why you say this now that the slimline is released? My assumption is it has to do with the guide data and the simplest solution I see for the Slimline 3 is to just put 101 on both the no tone and tone sides of things.

[kevinturcotte]

So is this going to be as simple as an LNB swap out if we already have a peaked AU9 dish?

[RobertE]

So is this going to be as simple as an LNB swap out if we already have a peaked AU9 dish?

I would assume so, but I don't see any reason why one would want to do so. You won't gain anything.

[Mertzen]

So is this going to be as simple as an LNB swap out if we already have a peaked AU9 dish?

I doubt any swaps will be done as all existing Ka/Ku dishes are already getting 99 / 101 / 103.

This is just a new product for markets with SD locals on 101 that have no need for 110/119.

[kevinturcotte]

I doubt any swaps will be done as all existing Ka/Ku dishes are already getting 99 / 101 / 103.

This is just a new product for markets with SD locals on 101 that have no need for 110/119.

They get our local CW in HD on D11, I have no more use for 110 or 119.

[Tom Robertson]

Can you provide any info on why you say this now that the slimline is released? My assumption is it has to do with the guide data and the simplest solution I see for the Slimline 3 is to just put 101 on both the no tone and tone sides of things.

You choose wisely... ;)

[harsh]

This really looks rather quickly done. With the viewing angle so vastly reduced I don't see why they don't work on a smaller reflector.The existing Slimline dish is essentially all about 99W and 103W. The SL3 is no different. If it didn't need all that surface area to grab a reliable Ka signal, they could have cut the dish down to a D shape or centered it at 110W. As it is, the Ka band is dictating the dish area and the Ku band is just fine with what it gets.

[evan_s]

I doubt any swaps will be done as all existing Ka/Ku dishes are already getting 99 / 101 / 103.

This is just a new product for markets with SD locals on 101 that have no need for 110/119.

I'm not sure if DTv will do the swap for me but I may have to break down and buy one of these LNBs once they are available. Simply because I've lost LOS on 119 now and even if I don't care about any of the channels on there anymore it does prevent me from receiving guide data while on a channel from 110 or 103 which can effect the reliability of the DVR to record.

[Brent04]

Why would DirecTV want to put out a new standard dish that does not have access to two of their locations (110 and 119). Couldn't DirecTV eventually use those two locations for more HD as more people get HD receivers and more channels switch to HD. DirecTV could just dropped the 18”, Phase III, World Direct, & Ka/Ku ODUs and just had one dish the AU9. I've installed two AU9 dishes and they are not that hard to install.

[Tom Robertson]

Why would DirecTV want to put out a new standard dish that does not have access to two of their locations (110 and 119). Couldn't DirecTV eventually use those two locations for more HD as more people get HD receivers and more channels switch to HD. DirecTV could just dropped the 18”, Phase III, World Direct, & Ka/Ku ODUs and just had one dish the AU9. I've installed two AU9 dishes and they are not that hard to install.The locations are and will continue to be used.
What will happen (we think) is all the international programming will move to 110/119 and those people will now need a single 5lnb dish instead of the world direct dish.

I'm assuming that for the bulk of people, the SL3 will be cheaper, hence the change.

Cheers,
Tom

[DarinC]

it does prevent me from receiving guide data while on a channel from 110 or 103 which can effect the reliability of the DVR to record.

I have a slimline (current, obviously), but it can't see 110 or 119 (I had a two dish setup until the slimline "upgrade"). But I seem to get full guide data for 103/110/119. I've seen posts before suggesting that lack of 119 will cause guide problems for HD, but I've not experienced that. It appears to me that I'm getting all of it from 99/101/103. :confused:

[Tom Robertson]

Do you have SWMLine? Or the Slimline.

SWM based systems already get their guide data from 101 and don't need LOS to 110/119.

Cheers,
Tom

[DarinC]

No, just the regular slimline.

[JACKIEGAGA]

Once again very well done by our First Look Team. Robert thanks for the info

[cartrivision]

I'm not sure if DTv will do the swap for me but I may have to break down and buy one of these LNBs once they are available. Simply because I've lost LOS on 119 now and even if I don't care about any of the channels on there anymore it does prevent me from receiving guide data while on a channel from 110 or 103 which can effect the reliability of the DVR to record.

No need to buy anything. Just re-run your satellite setup and select the Slimline-3 as your dish type even though you have a Slimline-5.

[DarinC]

Oh, and fwiw, mine is setup as slimline-5.

[Mike Bertelson]

Nice review Robert.

Thanks for doing the work and putting it together for us.

Mike

[evan_s]

I have a slimline (current, obviously), but it can't see 110 or 119 (I had a two dish setup until the slimline "upgrade"). But I seem to get full guide data for 103/110/119. I've seen posts before suggesting that lack of 119 will cause guide problems for HD, but I've not experienced that. It appears to me that I'm getting all of it from 99/101/103. :confused:

I've had mine that way for a month or two now also with out any significant issues. From what I can gather when you are tuned to something on 99 or 101 your receiver is always watching guide data coming from someplace on 101 and updating the information. When you are on 103, 110 or 119 that information is suppose to come from 119. Either source is suppose to carry all the guide information for all 5. I don't know if this is only on one particular tuner or both tuners but if one or both tuners is left on the 103, 110, 119 tuners for too long you would eventually end up seeing missing information in the guide at least that is how I understand it. Over a shorter time frame your receiver might miss any last minute guide updates and that could effect how or what it records. EG it misses a last minute update to the guide info that say a show is a new show instead of a rerun and doesn't record it because your SL is set to new shows only.

With that said I haven't noticed significant problems running it that way either but I have been trying to leave it on a SD channel so that it's getting guide data when I'm not watching something. The main reason I'm thinking about the Slimline 3 is because I'd rather be safe knowing I'm running a supported and functional setup than an unsupported one that could be causing issues that wouldn't necessarily be obvious. Enough people complain about problems with the series recording I don't need to make it harder for the box to get accurate guide data.

[Drew2k]

Thanks for the write-up, Robert. Great job! :up:

[Grentz]

Well I was hoping for a smaller dish, so that kinda stinks.

But on the plus side I dont have to fret or desire to replace my dish and have to go through all that ;)

[gulfwarvet]

Robert good job on the First Look and the extra info. I'm sure when you find out the cost you'll let us know.

[Tom Robertson]

No need to buy anything. Just re-run your satellite setup and select the Slimline-3 as your dish type even though you have a Slimline-5.
Wrong! The SL3 is especially designed to handle the loss of data mirrored on 119. Telling your receiver to ignore 110/119 doesn't get you the data.

Cheers,
Tom

[cartrivision]

Wrong! The SL3 is especially designed to handle the loss of data mirrored on 119. Telling your receiver to ignore 110/119 doesn't get you the data.

Cheers,
Tom

Details please.

[Tom Robertson]

I guess I don't know what details you are looking for that aren't already in several posts of this thread. (If it were a longer thread, I could understand missing them.) :)

Cheers,
Tom

[cartrivision]

I guess I don't know what details you are looking for that aren't already in several posts of this thread. (If it were a longer thread, I could understand missing them.) :)

Cheers,
Tom

Sorry, I only saw your similarly vague "don't unplug your sidecar" post that also lacked details, and didn't see the reply that speculated that 101 was possibly being duplicated in the 22khz tone slots of the stack plan that 110/119 occupied, which you then confirmed (at least I think that's what you saying "you chose wisely" was meant to do :grin: )

Regardless of the above nonsense, that's an odd and seeming wasteful way to get around mirroring the guide data on 103. I would think that the bandwidth required for the guide data is a small fraction of a HD channel that could be easily placed almost anywhere on 103 even if all its transponders were maxed out with no room for any more HD video channels.

Mirroring the guide data on 103 would have left them with a nice big hole in the Slimline3 stack plan that could have been filled with something that would be an astronomically more beneficial use of those two slots in the stack plan…. like.... oh, I don't know.... like a KA feed from D12 at 101. I guess this Slimline3 ends the speculation that D12 might be parked at 101. Sure, they could still come out with another triple LNB assembly that could accommodate that, but if that was the plan for D12 you would think that KA@101 capability would have been integrated into this LNB assembly... although, do we really know that it hasn’t been?

[LarryW]

I have a Fifth Wheel Travel Trailer and have been using an old style dish mounted on a portable tripod. I have been waiting for the Slimline 3, because I assume that it will be easier to setup and align, in order to go HD.

I hope that this dish will be available for purchase at some point in time.

Nice work Robert!

[doctor j]

LNB looks strikingly similar to the DTVAHKAKUKIT which is the lnb assembly for the Alaska/Hawaii 1.2 m dish which receives 99/101/103 only

Doctor j

[doctor j]

Picture:

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12287&d=1201986293

Doctor j

[DarinC]

Ok, I understood how 101/110/119 were mixed together. But I haven't followed any of those details since 99/103 came out. But, if I try to piece the little tidbits in this thread together, what I gather is:

In the Slimline-5, Signals from 99 are stacked with the signals on 101.
103 is stacked with 110/119.

But in the Slimline-3, 101 is always there, and the 22khz tone only determines whether 99 or 103 is stacked with it.

So the concern with a SL-5 with no 110/119 visibility is: any time you are watching content on 103 (on both, or possibly just one tuner), you are not receiving guide data. Correct?

That would explain why I haven't experienced any issues. I just got the Ka upgrade about a month ago. My partner has been out of town the entire month. I watch very little TV on my own... but I've been playing a lot of XM, giving me a fairly frequent signal from 101. So when he gets back on 8-2, and suddenly we're watching a bunch of content from 103 and playing much less XM (he doesn't appreciate my music!), we may start getting holes in our guide data, or start missing last minute updates. Though perhaps if enough channels get migrated to D11, it won't be as bad.

When I ordered the HRs, I told them I couldn't get 110/119 from the same location that I get 101, and told them if I could get an AT-9 dish I could make it work. Of course, they didn't really understand what I was telling them, but gave me the installer's # (Mastech), and said if they had one available, I could request they bring one out. I made several calls to them, but the calls never got returned. So the installer came out with the slimline, but by then I had learned that the HD channels on 110/119 were going to eventually be migrated, so I became less concerned about it.

So I guess I'm in the same boat as Evan, wondering if they'd swap the LNB. I've thought about getting the AK/HI dish with the 99/101/103 LNB, but by the time you get all the bits and pieces, those are damn expensive just to get a few less minutes of rain fade. Although I guess if I had to pay for a slimline-3 LNB out of pocket, the AK/HI dish would be a little more attractive. Hmmm.

[Wisegoat]

I have a Fifth Wheel Travel Trailer and have been using an old style dish mounted on a portable tripod. I have been waiting for the Slimline 3, because I assume that it will be easier to setup and align, in order to go HD.

I hope that this dish will be available for purchase at some point in time.

Nice work Robert!

I too hope this will be available for purchase. I would like to see Winegard use this for their RV lines.

I use an old 18" dish, with the coordinates of all the places I have been written in Sharpie on the back, just cause it is easiest to point and use. One of these would make it easier to move up to an HD setup when camping.

[barryb]

My motorhome just smiled at me.

[evan_s]

Ok, I understood how 101/110/119 were mixed together. But I haven't followed any of those details since 99/103 came out. But, if I try to piece the little tidbits in this thread together, what I gather is:

In the Slimline-5, Signals from 99 are stacked with the signals on 101.
103 is stacked with 110/119.

But in the Slimline-3, 101 is always there, and the 22khz tone only determines whether 99 or 103 is stacked with it.

So the concern with a SL-5 with no 110/119 visibility is: any time you are watching content on 103 (on both, or possibly just one tuner), you are not receiving guide data. Correct?

That is the way I understand it

That would explain why I haven't experienced any issues. I just got the Ka upgrade about a month ago. My partner has been out of town the entire month. I watch very little TV on my own... but I've been playing a lot of XM, giving me a fairly frequent signal from 101. So when he gets back on 8-2, and suddenly we're watching a bunch of content from 103 and playing much less XM (he doesn't appreciate my music!), we may start getting holes in our guide data, or start missing last minute updates. Though perhaps if enough channels get migrated to D11, it won't be as bad.

When I ordered the HRs, I told them I couldn't get 110/119 from the same location that I get 101, and told them if I could get an AT-9 dish I could make it work. Of course, they didn't really understand what I was telling them, but gave me the installer's # (Mastech), and said if they had one available, I could request they bring one out. I made several calls to them, but the calls never got returned. So the installer came out with the slimline, but by then I had learned that the HD channels on 110/119 were going to eventually be migrated, so I became less concerned about it.

So I guess I'm in the same boat as Evan, wondering if they'd swap the LNB. I've thought about getting the AK/HI dish with the 99/101/103 LNB, but by the time you get all the bits and pieces, those are damn expensive just to get a few less minutes of rain fade. Although I guess if I had to pay for a slimline-3 LNB out of pocket, the AK/HI dish would be a little more attractive. Hmmm.

I haven't noticed anything obvious on my setup but yes we are both theoretically not receiving the guide data at least some of the time and that may cause problems but it would be hard to tell unless you actually started seeing totally missing guide data.

[drx792]

I kinda understand this guide data stuff, but im not sure how the SL3 has this special ability to not need 119 for guide data. Does it have a part from the SWM that sets to look for 101 all the time or somethin? im confused:confused:

[DarinC]

I kinda understand this guide data stuff, but im not sure how the SL3 has this special ability to not need 119 for guide data.

If my interpretation is correct, it's because the SL-3 doesn't ever pick up 110/119. Therefore, it's free to always send 101 down the line. On the SL-5, it sends either a mix of 101 and 99, or a mix of 103 and 110/119, depending on what the receiver (or multiswitch) is asking for. In the SL-3, you get either a mix of 99/101, or 103/101. So you're always getting 101. With the SL-5, your always getting EITHER 101 OR 119... the two sats that carry guide data. But if 119 is blocked, then you're missing guide data when you're tuned to 103.

[doctor j]

Directv has developed this "stacking plan" to switch satellite bands between the 12 options presently available from the 5 major satellites.


Voltage/tone 18 v 13v 18v&22Mhz 13v&22MHz


Ka Low 99LHCP 99RHCP 103LHCP 103RHCP
250-750 MHz

Ku 101LHCP 101RHCP 110/119LHCP 119 RHCP
950-1450MHz

Ka High 99LHCP 99RHCP 103LHCP 103RHCP
1650-2150MHz

On any one line 3 bands are available always(Ka low, Ku, Ka high)
Switching 13/18 volts and no tone/22MHz tone gives one of the 4 options above.

Doctor j

[Christopher Gould]

Sorry, I only saw your similarly vague "don't unplug your sidecar" post that also lacked details, and didn't see the reply that speculated that 101 was possibly being duplicated in the 22khz tone slots of the stack plan that 110/119 occupied, which you then confirmed (at least I think that's what you saying "you chose wisely" was meant to do :grin: )

Regardless of the above nonsense, that's an odd and seeming wasteful way to get around mirroring the guide data on 103. I would think that the bandwidth required for the guide data is a small fraction of a HD channel that could be easily placed almost anywhere on 103 even if all its transponders were maxed out with no room for any more HD video channels.

Mirroring the guide data on 103 would have left them with a nice big hole in the Slimline3 stack plan that could have been filled with something that would be an astronomically more beneficial use of those two slots in the stack plan…. like.... oh, I don't know.... like a KA feed from D12 at 101. I guess this Slimline3 ends the speculation that D12 might be parked at 101. Sure, they could still come out with another triple LNB assembly that could accommodate that, but if that was the plan for D12 you would think that KA@101 capability would have been integrated into this LNB assembly... although, do we really know that it hasn’t been?

i don't think they will kill off 110/119 in the stack plan because u would be killing off all those custmers whos locals are there, plus any future international channels

[evan_s]

i don't think they will kill off 110/119 in the stack plan because u would be killing off all those custmers whos locals are there, plus any future international channels

This was in reference to the Slimline 3 which doesn't receive 110 and 119 but you are right that if they did put a KA sat at 101 they would need some way to fit it in the stack plan both on the Slimline3 and the standard slimline.

I fully expect d12 to go at 99 or 103. D* has 4 stats at 101 and only has a single block to fill up there. They have 2 Ka blocks at 99 and 103 to fill up and currently only 1 sat in each block (the d10/11 use ka lo and spaceways use ka hi). There is pleanty of room there for another sat or 2 at each location.

[ironwood]

This will be interesting. Most techs still stay in the field because it makes sense to balance basic installs with HD installs. Pay/difficulty ratio on those is very different. If every install becomes a big dish there will be more damage claims, more cancelled jobs, much much more service calls and of course more people quitting since productivity rate will go down.

If Directv wants to keep a bigger dish they should at least move towards International type of dish with big reflector but small and light Az/El and Lnb.

I dont understand why install big dishes for people with standard programming?

[RobertE]

Update

Beginning on 7/31, HSPs in 72.5 and SD Local markets will start seeing Work Order Activities with the SL3

The SL3 began shipping this week to the affected HSP offices.

The HSPs have been instructed NOT to use the SL3 until they get a workorder with the appropriate line item (just like the SWMLine LNB).

So what does this mean? Making a few educated guesses, I come up with this.

D11 will have some channels on it on or before 7/30. Those channels will be most likely the legacy HD channels being mirrored if not totally moved to D10/11. The next few weeks should be interesting.

:)

[evan_s]

Update

Beginning on 7/31, HSPs in 72.5 and SD Local markets will start seeing Work Order Activities with the SL3

The SL3 began shipping this week to the affected HSP offices.

The HSPs have been instructed NOT to use the SL3 until they get a workorder with the appropriate line item (just like the SWMLine LNB).

Hmm that would all but confirm that they expect the mpeg 4 mirrors on D11 to be active by 7/31. Have to assume they are HD customers if they are getting a slimline of any sort and if they can't see 110/119 the mirror would have to be up.

[DarinC]

D11 will have some channels on it on or before 7/30. Those channels will be most likely the legacy HD channels being mirrored if not totally moved to D10/11.

I don't understand what the legacy HD channels have to do with 72.5. If they are giving the 72.5 customers SL3, that seems to me that it means they are moving those locals to 99 (and would also seem to suggest that those customers would need MPEG4 capable receivers). For it to be relevent to the legacy HD channels, that would mean that they were moving the 72.5 locals to 110/119, after making room by moving the legacy HD to 99. But that can't be, or they'd give them SL5, not SL3. :confused:

[CJTE]

I don't understand what the legacy HD channels have to do with 72.5. If they are giving the 72.5 customers SL3, that seems to me that it means they are moving those locals to 99 (and would also seem to suggest that those customers would need MPEG4 capable receivers). For it to be relevent to the legacy HD channels, that would mean that they were moving the 72.5 locals to 110/119, after making room by moving the legacy HD to 99. But that can't be, or they'd give them SL5, not SL3. :confused:

The lease on 72.5 is up soon, so those customers locals will be moving, probably to D11.
Those same customers wont be able to see 110/119, so those channels will have to be mirrored/moved off to D11.

[RobertE]

I don't understand what the legacy HD channels have to do with 72.5. If they are giving the 72.5 customers SL3, that seems to me that it means they are moving those locals to 99 (and would also seem to suggest that those customers would need MPEG4 capable receivers). For it to be relevent to the legacy HD channels, that would mean that they were moving the 72.5 locals to 110/119, after making room by moving the legacy HD to 99. But that can't be, or they'd give them SL5, not SL3. :confused:


The 72.5 & legacy channels are related and not related at the same time.

The lease time on the 72.5 slot is running out. Those markets need to be moved somewhere.

So where can they go? 99/101/103/110/119.

With that information I got earlier, we can scratch off 110/119. The 72.5 markets don't have to go on D11 or D10 for that matter. Both Spaceway 1 & 2 have some really cool spotbeam features. So I expect some of the 72.5 markets to go to D11, some will go to S1 & S2 after some markets are moved to D11/10. They have a lot of options to them.

I don't believe that DirecTv will start installing the SL3 until those legacy channels are at least mirrored to 99/103

[cartrivision]

i don't think they will kill off 110/119 in the stack plan because u would be killing off all those custmers whos locals are there, plus any future international channels

But there are already different stack plans for different dishes and not only has 110/119 been removed from the Slimline3 stack plan, it has been replaced with a duplication of the 101 signals.

If they could park D12 at 101W and use a Slimline3 dish to receive it and send it down the cable in place of the 110/119 signals in the stack plan, they could use more of the spectrum on D10 & D11 for conus coverage and move more spot beams to D12.

Aren't one or both of 110 & 119 supposed to be going away in a few years anyway, or are they going to be used in the long term?

[RobertE]

But there are already different stack plans for different dishes and not only has 110/119 been removed from the Slimline3 stack plan, it has been replaced with a duplication of the 101 signals.

If they could park D12 at 101W and use a Slimline3 dish to receive it and send it down the cable in place of the 110/119 signals in the stack plan, they could use more of the spectrum on D10 & D11 for conus coverage and move more spot beams to D12.

Aren't one or both of 110 & 119 supposed to be going away in a few years anyway, or are they going to be used in the long term?

As far as I know, the 110/119 are going to be around for a long, long time. The 72.5 days are numbered, the space on G3C (95 - Internationals) that one I'm not sure on.

[cartrivision]

As far as I know, the 110/119 are going to be around for a long, long time. The 72.5 days are numbered, the space on G3C (95 - Internationals) that one I'm not sure on.

So are there LIL spotbeams on both 110 and 119? Do you know about how many LIL markets are served by those satellites?

[CJTE]

Its going to be very interesting when a customer with an SL3 calls in to DirecTV and they rerun the sat setup and then dont know if the customer has a 5LNB or a SL3.

[RobertE]

So are there LIL spotbeams on both 110 and 119? Do you know about how many LIL markets are served by those satellites?

Not sure. I just know that Cleveland is not one of them, but where my parents are is. :)

[Alan Gordon]

So are there LIL spotbeams on both 110 and 119? Do you know about how many LIL markets are served by those satellites?

110 doesn't have spot-beams (to my knowledge)... 119 does though, and there are a considerable amount (40+ I think) on 119.

~Alan

[Christopher Gould]

this is a very old subject but D* and E* need to work out that long ago transponder swap. D* gives E* the 3 at 110 giving them all 32 and E* gives 3 from 119 for D* a total of 14 at 119. Cuts one satellite for D* and give E* a little more room on there largest Ku slot.

[CJTE]

this is a very old subject but D* and E* need to work out that long ago transponder swap. D* gives E* the 3 at 110 giving them all 32 and E* gives 3 from 119 for D* a total of 14 at 119. Cuts one satellite for D* and give E* a little more room on there largest Ku slot.

And the people who cant receive 119?

[TheRatPatrol]

.....If they could park D12 at 101W and use a Slimline3 dish to receive it....
Does the SL3 have an LNB that can receive Ka signals from 101? I know the current LNB's can't.

Thanks

[Tom Robertson]

Does the SL3 have an LNB that can receive Ka signals from 101? I know the current LNB's can't.

Thanks

No, no Ka from 101° on any of the current dishes for the home. Only for the regional and national broadcast centers. (And they are typically 9m, more than 9x a home dish.) :)

Cheers,
Tom

[harsh]

I too hope this will be available for purchase.They should be available before the end of the year through the normal retail channelsOne of these would make it easier to move up to an HD setup when camping.It is no easier to set up than the AU9 but it should be a little lighter. You won't be able to set the dish and level it and hope that it will work. It will have to be dialed in.

[cartrivision]

They should be available before the end of the year through the normal retail channelsIt is no easier to set up than the AU9 but it should be a little lighter. You won't be able to set the dish and level it and hope that it will work. It will have to be dialed in.

It's a little bit easier since the tilt doesn't have to be as precise.

[harsh]

It's a little bit easier since the tilt doesn't have to be as precise.Tilt is not a parameter that typically requires dialing in. Set it carefully according to the numbers and it will probably work well enough without fine tuning. If you are someone who likes to dial it in, having 119W out there to shoot at is a bonus reference point.

[tkrandall]

Why would DirecTV want to put out a new standard dish that does not have access to two of their locations (110 and 119). Couldn't DirecTV eventually use those two locations for more HD as more people get HD receivers and more channels switch to HD. DirecTV could just dropped the 18”, Phase III, World Direct, & Ka/Ku ODUs and just had one dish the AU9. I've installed two AU9 dishes and they are not that hard to install.

Because there are likely many existing or potential core and HD programming customers east of the Mississippi who cannot get a good line sight to 110w or 119w, or cannot simultaneously get 99/101/103 AND 110 AND 119 all at the same time from one spot. That is a large look angle and trees and terrain in the eastern U.S. can make that very difficult at times. I, for one, a 5 year customer, am starting to lose 110W due to a large oak tree's growth, and I have no other location on my property to pick up 101/110/119 or 110/119 at the same time. DISH is not an option for me either.

another example from this thread, also in the Atlanta area:
I have a slimline (current, obviously), but it can't see 110 or 119 (I had a two dish setup until the slimline "upgrade")...

It makes sense to me for DTV to put all of the ethnic programming on 110 and 119, along with perhaps keeping some SD locals there for some markets, especially in the west. Making only 99/101/103 required for 80% or 90% of its SD/HD customers base would seem like a smart thing for them to do, and even would be a competetive advantage for them over DISH in the eastern U.S. (higher elevation line of sight means the abilty to serve more potential customers).

[tkrandall]

Do you have SWMLine? Or the Slimline.

SWM based systems already get their guide data from 101 and don't need LOS to 110/119.

Cheers,
Tom

I have two SD TIVOs and an HR20, along with a Slimline AU9. I am losing 110W signal due to an oak tree's growth (still comes in but weak - 50s/60s). So ESPN, HD theater and a couple others are less reliable now. I shoot a gap between tree for 119W which is still strong. So if I understand it right, I get some of my guide data now off of 119? What about after D11 goes live and all legacy HD's are at least mirrored on 99/103? If I keep my AU9 dish will I still "need" LOS to 119 for the guide data?

If that would be the only use of 119 at that point, then a SL3 would seem to make sense for my situation.

[bobnielsen]

Do you have SWMLine? Or the Slimline.

SWM based systems already get their guide data from 101 and don't need LOS to 110/119.

Cheers,
Tom

So with a SWM, the sidecar could be removed from an AT-9? I'm not planning to do that, but one wonders.

[Matt9876]

Well I was hoping for a smaller dish, so that kinda stinks.

;)


This will be a home brew project but I'm going to build a 99/101/103 dish with the smallest reflector I can get, I have one out of a tracker unit thats around 12"x 15" square just for starters.

It will only be for good weather (clear sky).

I will post pictures and signal levels if successful. :)

[demisod]

By odd coincidence, a DTV installer was at my house yesterday for a free upgrade to HD, and canceled the installation because he could not get a LOS to all five locations. There are places, however, that will pick up 99/101/103. My locals are listed on the DTV website as being available in HD, so I am assuming they come from one of those three satellites. Any guesses on when D* will be willing to install one of these dishes in my area?

[evan_s]

Posted earlier in the thread it might be possible as soon as 7/30.

[tkrandall]

By odd coincidence, a DTV installer was at my house yesterday for a free upgrade to HD, and canceled the installation because he could not get a LOS to all five locations. There are places, however, that will pick up 99/101/103. My locals are listed on the DTV website as being available in HD, so I am assuming they come from one of those three satellites. Any guesses on when D* will be willing to install one of these dishes in my area?

Someone on this board should know which sat locations Chapel Hill NC std def locals come from. If they are 101 and not 119, you should be good with the new SL3.

[demisod]

Thanks, I'm pretty sure that the SD locals for my area come from 101, if Lyngsat is to be believed, and I think that it is in this case. I was wondering if there was any chance that HD locals could be beamed from 110 or 119. I wouldn't think so, but I don't know enough about the subject to rule that out.

I was also unsure about this wording:

"HSPs in 72.5 and SD Local markets will start seeing Work Order Activities with the SL3"

If SD Local markets means SD-only locals, then technically my area would not apply, since my zip is listed as having HD locals on D*'s website (though Lyngsat doesn't show any HD locals for my area on any of the satellites). I'm not sure why there would be such a restriction, unless some HD locals do come from 110 or 119. Is there another reason?

[evan_s]

The only hd "Locals" on 110/119 are the New York and LA locals that are used as distant feeds. All other locals are on 99 or 103 off of one of the Ka Sats.

[Birdman79]

We were told that by the beginning of next year we would have a new slimline as small as an 18x20 for 99,101,103,that won't require the use of monopoles.I cross my fingers and hope it's true.:)

[Tebbens]

Is the SWM version of the LNB out now also ?

[Michael D'Angelo]

Is the SWM version of the LNB out now also ?

Yes but it is only being installed in a few areas right now.

I don't know any place online besides eBay that has them but there is a member here dave29 that can get them.

[Tom Robertson]

We were told that by the beginning of next year we would have a new slimline as small as an 18x20 for 99,101,103,that won't require the use of monopoles.I cross my fingers and hope it's true.:)

My questions is who were "we told" by? I don't know of any smaller dish being planned, I think most of the reflective area of the existing dish is for the Ka at 99 and 103.

Cheers,
Tom

[RobertE]

Is the SWM version of the LNB out now also ?

The SL5(5 LNB with SWM built in) is out and should be available nationwide sometime this August.

As far as the SL3 with SWM, no. The standard SL3 is just starting to be shipped to HSPs let alone being installed.

Patience.

[Tom Robertson]

Is the SWM version of the LNB out now also ?

Yes but it is only being installed in a few areas right now.

I don't know any place online besides eBay that has them but there is a member here dave29 that can get them.

The SWM version of the SL3 has not been announced yet. I fully expect one, of course, someday.

Cheers,
Tom

[hdtvfan0001]

Boy...we sure can get some great information on this stuff....and far in advance of what is generally know to "the public"...whoever those folks are...:D :lol:

[Michael D'Angelo]

Thanks for the correction Robert and Tom. I thought the poster was talking about the SWMLine (5 LNB version). I wasn't even thinking about the 3 LNB version.

[texasbrit]

i don't think they will kill off 110/119 in the stack plan because u would be killing off all those custmers whos locals are there, plus any future international channels

They can't change the stacking plan because none of the multiswitches would work. My guess is that they are just going to mirror the guide data on 103 as well as on 119 (they can't remove it from 119 because of SD receivers that don't see 103, and will be tuned to 119 for their locals, or the hispanic package. This may already have been done, without our knowing it, it would be just a software change I think.
Maybe someone can check this by leaving a reciver tuned to a 103c transponder for a while and see if they still lose the guide. I would do it but I am using an SWM which gets the guide from 101 all the time.

[Doug Brott]

The SWM version of the SL3 has not been announced yet. I fully expect one, of course, someday.

Later this year is looking like a possibility .. There is nothing firm, though.

[RobertE]

Later this year is looking like a possibility .. There is nothing firm, though.

;)

[jmh139]

I am in Cary, NC, the Raleigh locals in SD come from 101 and HD from 103S. I cannot see 110 or 119 due to trees, and am looking forward to the mpeg4 swap over on Thursday, I will gain a bunch of new channels :-)

I have never noticed any missing guide due to not seeing 119, but I record a lot from TVLand, so the tuners are always switching to the 101 sat.

Thanks, I'm pretty sure that the SD locals for my area come from 101, if Lyngsat is to be believed, and I think that it is in this case. I was wondering if there was any chance that HD locals could be beamed from 110 or 119. I wouldn't think so, but I don't know enough about the subject to rule that out.

I was also unsure about this wording:

"HSPs in 72.5 and SD Local markets will start seeing Work Order Activities with the SL3"

If SD Local markets means SD-only locals, then technically my area would not apply, since my zip is listed as having HD locals on D*'s website (though Lyngsat doesn't show any HD locals for my area on any of the satellites). I'm not sure why there would be such a restriction, unless some HD locals do come from 110 or 119. Is there another reason?

[saryon]

Random thought, if you go into the setup and tell it you have a Slimline-3 instead of a Slimline-5 (where a -5 is really installed), wouldn't that fix the 110/119 guide data issue since the box wouldn't be attempting to locate sats that it doesn't think you can get since you've told it to ignore them?

[evan_s]

No it wouldn't because the switch in the LNB wouldn't be putting 101 in the place of 110/119 so the receiver still wouldn't be able to find guide data while tuned to 103.

[doctor j]

No it wouldn't because the switch in the LNB wouldn't be putting 101 in the place of 110/119 so the receiver still wouldn't be able to find guide data while tuned to 103.


I'm not questioning the accuracy of this 119 guide data debate but would like to see the technical data to support it.
To my mind it does make more sense to (in the future) have guide data on 103 rather than duplicating 101 down the KU pipe in the 4 port 12 band stack plan.
I would think Directv has other plans for the middle pipeline on the tone routes, ?BSS from ? 101 or something.
Is transponder 22 on 119 just guide data?
Is the same true on 101?

Technical details bother me (OCD) so any further references would be appreciated.

Doctor j

[evan_s]

It's definitely possible they will have some different solution in the future but currently there isn't anything else a Slimline3 would be able to receive to put in that spot in the stack plan as far as we know. Once they have a new lnb and switch that has something to put there they obviously will have to do something about the guide data and changing the stack plan again.

Keep in mind that 103c is not accessible at the same time that 103s is since the BBC moves the 103c stack to take the place of 103c. So putting the guide data on 103c still wouldn't solve the issue while watching 103s channels unless other further changes where made to the stack plan.

The way I see it is why would they want to waste space on 103c for guide data now when they have nothing to put in the 101/119 spot in the stack anyway. Better to use that space for channels now and change the stack plan and guide data source again later when it's actually needed.

I don't know where tom got his information from but I assume it's from DirecTV since he seems confident in it.

[bobnielsen]

I suspect that the bandwidth required for all of the guide data is much less than that required for a single channel.

[DarinC]

I would tend to wonder why they don't put it everywhere... it's got to be a very tiny amount of data, relatively speaking.

[P Smith]

I suspect that the bandwidth required for all of the guide data is much less than that required for a single channel.
Correct. And pieces of APG scattered between sats and tpns.

[tkrandall]

Any pictures of the SL3 dish yet? If it is being shipped out surely we can get some hard specs and photos?!?

I'd like a side by side with the slimline 5.

[RobertE]

Any pictures of the SL3 dish yet? If it is being shipped out surely we can get some hard specs and photos?!?

I'd like a side by side with the slimline 5.

It's the same dish. Just a different LNB.

[tkrandall]

OK.

If I lose line of sight to 119w, as I am starting to with 110w, then getting a SL3 would be in order for the guide data reason.

Does it have a model number, (like the AU9s model number for the SL5)?


On second thought, if I have a SL5 now, to make a SL3 would I need a new dish or could I just swap out the LNB assembly? Would that work correctly?

[evan_s]

The SL3 is a new lnb that could just be dropped in place. Not having the guide data from 119 can cause problems and missing info. With that said I've had no LOS on 119 for a couple months and it hasn't caused any major problems either.

[jmh139]

Since I do not have line of site to 110 or 119, I redid the satellite setup and told my receiver I had the Slimline3. After setup, It downloaded a small amount of guide data. I left the receiver on two channels on 103 overnight and had NO guide data the next day. I changed to 101 channels and started getting data again.

I think this proves (at least to me!) that with a slimline5 you will not get guide data by just changing the setup to slimline3. I record a bunch on TVLand and have never had a problem no seeing 119.

I will probably invest in a slimline3 LNB when I can buy one.

I'm not questioning the accuracy of this 119 guide data debate but would like to see the technical data to support it.
To my mind it does make more sense to (in the future) have guide data on 103 rather than duplicating 101 down the KU pipe in the 4 port 12 band stack plan.
I would think Directv has other plans for the middle pipeline on the tone routes, ?BSS from ? 101 or something.
Is transponder 22 on 119 just guide data?
Is the same true on 101?

Technical details bother me (OCD) so any further references would be appreciated.

Doctor j

[cartrivision]

Since I do not have line of site to 110 or 119, I redid the satellite setup and told my receiver I had the Slimline3. After setup, It downloaded a small amount of guide data. I left the receiver on two channels on 103 overnight and had NO guide data the next day. I changed to 101 channels and started getting data again.

I think this proves (at least to me!) that with a slimline5 you will not get guide data by just changing the setup to slimline3. I record a bunch on TVLand and have never had a problem no seeing 119.

I will probably invest in a slimline3 LNB when I can buy one.

That's probably not necessary. Since the HD channels are now going to be split between 99 and 103, having both tuners on channels belonging to stacks that don't have guide data is a lot less likely to happen for long periods of time, so only getting guide data while on a 99/101 stack is going to be less problematic. Between recording SD channels on 101 and HD channels on 99, going without 119 guide data from a Slimline5 probably won't cause any significant guide data issues.

[litzdog911]

Can someone with their Receiver/DVR setup for the SlimLine3 dish let us know if you see any of the channels beamed from 110 or 119º in your Guide (e.g. HD channels in the 70's)? This question popped up in another thread. I'm assuming that the SlimLine3 setup would tell the Receiver to not show un-received channels in the Guide.

[litzdog911]

Can someone with their Receiver/DVR setup for the SlimLine3 dish let us know if you see any of the channels beamed from 110 or 119º in your Guide (e.g. HD channels in the 70's)? This question popped up in another thread. I'm assuming that the SlimLine3 setup would tell the Receiver to not show un-received channels in the Guide.

Nevermind. The person that stated this realized they actually were setup for Slimline5, not Slimline3.

[tkrandall]

interesting question though

[jmh139]

The channels do not show up, and you cannot tune to them (channel not available). 110 and 119 do not show in the sat strength test either....

Nevermind. The person that stated this realized they actually were setup for Slimline5, not Slimline3.

[imbie]

So, when is this slimline3 going to be available??????????????

[RobertE]

So, when is this slimline3 going to be available??????????????

July 31 2008. Give or take a week or two depending on the market.

[imbie]

When will D* authorize a 99 101 103 HD install???? I cant see 110 119

July 31 2008. Give or take a week or two depending on the market.

[Tom Robertson]

My understanding is they won't authorize an SL3 in locations that have SD locals from 119°. So where in CA are you located?

Cheers,
Tom

[imbie]

My understanding is they won't authorize an SL3 in locations that have SD locals from 119°. So where in CA are you located?

Cheers,
Tom

I am in 95335. I am currently a SD setup with a single sat dish pointed at 101. So, all my SD locals are coming off 101. There is a gap in the trees big enough for 99 101 103.. and am hoping to just call D* and have them hook me up in HD. I dont want the guy to come all the way out here and tell me I cant have it, cause he cant see 110 119.

[tsanga]

Do you think they'll authorize a LNB swap for a Slimline that was installed earlier this year knowingly without access to 119 (with my concurrence)? (Locals aren't currently coming from there.)

[tkrandall]

I'd like to know the same. I am losing 110w already this year (oak tree growth vertically) and am close to losing 119 - probably next year from the same tree. I shoot a gap for 119 now as it is lower and to the right of 110. I found out this weekend I am so close to losing 119 when it's signals got 25 points lower after a thunderstorm blew through and temporarily rearranged the limbs a bit, until the tree settled back to its normal form the next day. 99c and 103c have come just in time.

[tkrandall]

Do any retailers stock the slimline 3 yet?

Does anyone know if they are showing up with the installers yet?

Is there training info available yet for the installers to install the new dish without requiring line of site to 110w and 119w?

[harsh]

Do any retailers stock the slimline 3 yet?Not for retail sale.Does anyone know if they are showing up with the installers yet?Not for mere mortals.Is there training info available yet for the installers to install the new dish without requiring line of site to 110w and 119w?Is such information really necessary? The setup process is practically the same except you don't have 119W to lean on for tilt.

The SWMLine isn't much out in the wild yet and your looking for an SL3???

SL3 availability at retail may not be practical as there are many markets that require 119W for SD LIL. I suspect that they will hold them to areas that don't need 119W for their basic programming. Getting HD locals but not SD locals presents some major difficulties with their pricing model; especially when they carry half or less of the locals in HD.

[tkrandall]

I was just curious about the training in the context of "is the word out yet" on this new dish.

As I have said, I am at risk of losing 119. My HD locals and most popular HD channels come off of the 103 birds. So I am interested in getting a slimline 3 LNB in due course.

[Matt9876]

Both the slimline and side car will work as a 99/101/103 Dish, the tricky part is getting someone to install it without line of sight to 110 or 119.

A local retailer may be able to assist you with that type of install as long as you communicate up front about not having proper line of sight and you don't care about any missing channels, If you complain to DirecTV about missing channels they will loose their money on the install.

Any location without SD locals on 119 should be able to get the Slimline3 install as soon as the stock hits the shelves in the local warehouse.

[RobertE]

Both the slimline and side car will work as a 99/101/103 Dish, the tricky part is getting someone to install it without line of sight to 110 or 119.

A local retailer may be able to assist you with that type of install as long as you communicate up front about not having proper line of sight and you don't care about any missing channels, If you complain to DirecTV about missing channels they will loose their money on the install.

Any location without SD locals on 119 should be able to get the Slimline3 install as soon as the stock hits the shelves in the local warehouse.

But what we don't know yet for sure is how the receivers will react when set to a Slimline 3 when it really is connected to a Slimline 5.

[jmh139]

I have been running mine this way for a week or more. No problems. The channels from 110 and 119 just do not show up at all. Seems to work great. I did a test when I switched over to Slimline3 and left the receiver tuned to two channels on 103 and had no guide data the next morning. I'd like to get a SL3 LNB some day so I don't have to worry about guide data.

But what we don't know yet for sure is how the receivers will react when set to a Slimline 3 when it really is connected to a Slimline 5.

[RobertE]

I have been running mine this way for a week or more. No problems. The channels from 110 and 119 just do not show up at all. Seems to work great. I did a test when I switched over to Slimline3 and left the receiver tuned to two channels on 103 and had no guide data the next morning. I'd like to get a SL3 LNB some day so I don't have to worry about guide data.

Thats a very good reason to not advise people to switch the LNB type in the setup. Sure, you may know that the guide data may stop, but what about everyone in the house? Such a simple thing could cause some negative impressions on those that don't know what is going on.

[saryon]

But what we don't know yet for sure is how the receivers will react when set to a Slimline 3 when it really is connected to a Slimline 5.

Can't look right now since the GF is watching, but don't the new HD (H2x HR2x)receivers have both Slimeline-3 and Slimline-5 as dish options in the setup menu?

[RobertE]

Can't look right now since the GF is watching, but don't the new HD (H2x HR2x)receivers have both Slimeline-3 and Slimline-5 as dish options in the setup menu?

yes as do a good number of other receivers

[FarNorth]

The only hd "Locals" on 110/119 are the New York and LA locals that are used as distant feeds. All other locals are on 99 or 103 off of one of the Ka Sats.

Aren't those moving to D11 too?

[jmh139]

I have never been able to get 110 or 119 because of trees, so it makes no difference for my setup. It has always been this way for me. I record a bunch of stuff off TVLand over night to make sure guide data is not a problem...

Thats a very good reason to not advise people to switch the LNB type in the setup. Sure, you may know that the guide data may stop, but what about everyone in the house? Such a simple thing could cause some negative impressions on those that don't know what is going on.

[tkrandall]

What about a SL3 dish with legacy SD receivers like the DirecTIVO units? I have two of them.

If I install a SL3, what type dish should I tell the TIVOs that I have? I guess selecting an 18" round dish would be the best selection in that case, so the units don't think they can go look for 110 and 119.

[Matt9876]

What about a SL3 dish with legacy SD receivers like the DirecTIVO units? I have two of them.

If I install a SL3, what type dish should I tell the TIVOs that I have? I guess selecting an 18" round dish would be the best selection in that case, so the units don't think they can go look for 110 and 119.

+1 You are correct.

[evan_s]

Aren't those moving to D11 too?

Yeah they are on D11 but I believe they are currently mirrored in in both locations.

[texasbrit]

I have been running mine this way for a week or more. No problems. The channels from 110 and 119 just do not show up at all. Seems to work great. I did a test when I switched over to Slimline3 and left the receiver tuned to two channels on 103 and had no guide data the next morning. I'd like to get a SL3 LNB some day so I don't have to worry about guide data.


Don't forget you can work around the guide data issue.
On HD receivers, set a daily autotune for (say) 3am to a channel on the 101 satellite.
On DVRs, set to manually record two programs at 3am daily, both from the 101 satellite. You need to set both tuners because it's the only way to make sure that tuner 1 (which handles the guide data) is on the 101 satellite.

[Doug Brott]

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14933&stc=1&d=1218240707

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14934&stc=1&d=1218240729

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14935&stc=1&d=1218240729

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14936&stc=1&d=1218240729

[Drew2k]

Is that on the surface of the moon?!

Cooll pics. :)

[tkrandall]

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14933&stc=1&d=1218240707



Doug - so how much to buy that LNB from you? :)

[tkrandall]

fyi - Solid Signal emailed me and said 4-8 weeks for availability.

[turey22]

will these be easier to align? does it have a wider window to retrive the signal?

[tkrandall]

should be about the same as the SL5, except there is no step to adjust tilt to peak 119 (since the dish only gets 99/101/103).

That said, this will make having a plumb mast as important as ever, as you will set the tilt per your zip code and then leave it there before fine tuning elevation and azimuth.

[tkrandall]

RobertE - do you know that the model number is for the slimline 3? (AU9-S being the slimline 5 for example)

[Doug Brott]

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15329&stc=1&d=1219728212
http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15330&stc=1&d=1219728172

[Grentz]

Wow, that looks really good. Amazing how the smaller LNB assembly really changes the look of the whole dish!

[Tom Robertson]

Thanks Doug!

Cheers,
Tom

BTW, where's the monopoles on that SL3? :)

[l8er]

And Doug, are you getting a head start on the Christmas lights this year? :D

(Back to lurking now, only slightly medicated from breaking my neck and it's back to work part time starting tomorrow :hurah: ).

[Doug Brott]

And Doug, are you getting a head start on the Christmas lights this year? :D

(Back to lurking now, only slightly medicated from breaking my neck and it's back to work part time starting tomorrow :hurah: ).

Party lights .. :)

[Doug Brott]

Thanks Doug!

Cheers,
Tom

BTW, where's the monopoles on that SL3? :)

Under Eave mount .. I should snap some shots from the bottom, too. I'll try to do that today.

I still may put them on, though ..

[Mertzen]

Under Eave mount .. I should snap some shots from the bottom, too. I'll try to do that today.

I still may put them on, though ..

Who places the monopole from the chimney mount into the shingles??? :nono:

[Doug Brott]

Who places the monopole from the chimney mount into the shingles??? :nono:

Ironwood .. been that way for a couple of years now ..

[billcushman]

Doug's picture in post 138 showing both the AT9 and AU9 clearly shows that the LNB offset angle is very different, so that the Slimline dish surface is tilted higher, which reduces wind loading. Both are pointed to exactly the same position in the sky from a signal standpoint. My measurements of the LNB offset angle shows 23 degrees for the AT9 and 16 degrees for the AU9. This results in the Slimline dish surface being tilted 7 degrees higher in elevation, while still pointing (electromagnetic signal) to exactly the same position in the sky.

[cartrivision]

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15329&stc=1&d=1219728212


Sign you are watching too much DirecTV.... it's August and you still haven't taken down your Christmas lights :D

[techrep]

Sign you are watching too much DirecTV.... it's August and you still haven't taken down your Christmas lights :D

He was told the same thing last year. :lol:

[Doug Brott]

Sign you are watching too much DirecTV.... it's August and you still haven't taken down your Christmas lights :D

Those are up year round :) ..

[Doug Brott]

More Pictures ..

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15421&stc=1&d=1220036280

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15422&stc=1&d=1220036241

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15423&stc=1&d=1220036241

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15424&stc=1&d=1220036241

And what do I get out of it .. :)

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15425&stc=1&d=1220036241

[Tebbens]

Will the SL3 with an SWM LNB ever be available ?

[evan_s]

It is expected. There has been some reference in different materials to a SL3 with SWM.

[Doug Brott]

Will the SL3 with an SWM LNB ever be available ?

yes, but I'm not sure of the exact timeline

[Tebbens]

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14935&stc=1&d=1218240729[/img]


I have a Slimline 5LNB dish, but the LNB is going bad and I need to replace it.

Is the SL3 the exact same dish as the SL5, just a dfferent LNB ?

Is the above LNB available and can I drop it in without realigning ?
If not, where can I buy just the SL5 LNB ?

Thanks !
Matthew

[Doug Brott]

I have a Slimline 5LNB dish, but the LNB is going bad and I need to replace it.

Is the SL3 the exact same dish as the SL5, just a dfferent LNB ?

Is the above LNB available and can I drop it in without realigning ?
If not, where can I buy just the SL5 LNB ?

Thanks !
Matthew

The SL3 and the soon to be available SL3S should slip right into the same dish alignment. Just two screws and swap the LNBs. The SL5 is more readily available at the moment and should work just fine unless you have LOS issues with 119. As for where? I don't think DIRECTV will send one out to you, but if it's not functioning properly, DIRECTV could send someone out to take a look.

[tadfad]

This will be a home brew project but I'm going to build a 99/101/103 dish with the smallest reflector I can get, I have one out of a tracker unit thats around 12"x 15" square just for starters.

It will only be for good weather (clear sky).

I will post pictures and signal levels if successful. :)

Interesting idea.

Will the new 99/101/103 lnb fit into the arm of any dish other than the slimline? For example the phase III dish? Or as another test, does the 99/101/103 lnb from the AT9 (minus sidecar) fit into the arm of any dish other than the AT9?

Would be interesting to see what signal strengths could be obtained from 99 & 103 with a smaller reflector. Am wondering how easy it would be to test a smaller dish for 99/101/103 only with minimal modifications / home brewing.

[harsh]

This will be a home brew project but I'm going to build a 99/101/103 dish with the smallest reflector I can get, I have one out of a tracker unit thats around 12"x 15" square just for starters.My guess is that if you cut the reflector area by a factor of four, your signal be cut to around 25-30.

My recollection is that signals below 25 may not even register.

[tadfad]

My guess is that if you cut the reflector area by a factor of four, your signal be cut to around 25-30.

Are any of the older, smaller dishes of sufficient size for decent signal from 99 & 103 presuming they could be fitted with the SL3 lnb?

phase III: 18-1/2"" H x 21-1/8"" W
para todos: 18" h x 24"w ?? (estimated dimensions)
vs.
AT-9: 25.5 h x 29.5 w
AU-9: 22.5 h x 32.5 w

Or is there an older, smaller dish whose features (shape, lnb arm length, lnb arm opening size, ease of modification, or other) might be better suited to test signal strength of 99 & 103?

Has anyone tried this? Or is there no getting around using the larger dish (AT9 or AU9) for receiving 99 & 103?

[harsh]

Before anyone gets excited about replacing a dish, make sure you've experienced a couple of seasons of poor weather. If DIRECTV thought you could get away with a smaller dish, they would have done it.

If you must experiment, how about trying a larger dish?

[Doug Brott]

Interesting idea.

Will the new 99/101/103 lnb fit into the arm of any dish other than the slimline? For example the phase III dish? Or as another test, does the 99/101/103 lnb from the AT9 (minus sidecar) fit into the arm of any dish other than the AT9?

Would be interesting to see what signal strengths could be obtained from 99 & 103 with a smaller reflector. Am wondering how easy it would be to test a smaller dish for 99/101/103 only with minimal modifications / home brewing.

No .. there is a key in the LNB assembly that won't let you mate the wrong dish to the LNB. If you have the Sidecar, then this LNB will not work. You would need to get the Slimline antenna.

In addition, if you note the differing angles of my two dishes in the photos above, you can see why it wouldn't work even if you broke the key. The angles are all wrong, so you'd be reflecting towards a point that doesn't even hit the LNB assembly.

[tadfad]

On the top is a CalAmp (Model 151647) sitting above an Eagle Aspen (shows SL3PIG-P on label). The two are "back to back" in the second photo where you can see that the SL3 99/101/103 lnb isn't as wide. It's just under 2.5" wide whereas the CalAmp is over 3" (measuring the inside cover width, not the outer plastic shield which is nearly 4" wide). Overall the SL3 is 6 5/8" wide and the CalAmp is a little over 16".

[Tom Robertson]

Nice set of comparisons, tadfad. Thanks.

Cheers,
Tom

[tadfad]

On the left is a "Triple Sat" 101/110/119 Thomson Model No. 150946 LNB (also referred to as a Phase III 18x20 oval dish lnb), and on the right is an Eagle Aspen SL3. In the second photo is a bottom view with the same 2 lnbs back to back.

They are very similar in size. It's difficult to tell from the photos, but the rear casing of the SL3 is slightly wider than the triple sat's, while the triple sat's casing is about 1/2" taller/higher than the SL3. The feed horns themselves (the metal portion) extend out roughly the same distance, but the plastic covers are distinctly different with the SL3 having an upper plastic shield that extends out which is more visible in photo #4 of post #131 of this thread.

Perhaps most interesting is that the feed horn openings of the SL3 for 99 & 103 are oval in shape. This is better seen in photos 3 & 4 of post #131 of this thread. Whereas the triple sat's are circular as are the 99 & 103 horns of the Cal Amp 5 lnb as seen in photo 2 of post 161 of this thread.

In other words, the 99 & 103 feed horn openings on the SL3 are taller but narrower in comparison to the CalAmp 5 lnb. I would describe the openings as football shaped. I haven't seen any comments about this apparent new shape, but it is visible in the post 131 photos.

Are there 4 different makes of the 5 lnb and does each have circular shaped openings for the 99 & 103 feed horns? Could an oval shaped feed horn produce better signal reception with the current slimline dish?

Or this has me wondering if this is an indication that a future slimline 3 dish will be slightly taller than the current slimline 5 dish and less wide than the current model. It seems like you could gain the reflector area needed for ka by going a bit taller while cutting the width considerably since the beam angle for 99 to 103 is narrower vs. 99 to 119. Plus it looks like the narrow width of the new 99 & 103 feed horns would not benefit from signal reflecting from the outside edges at the far widths of the 32" oval reflector. I am not an engineer (perhaps one could comment) but I will try blocking the outside edges of the slimline dish to see how it affects signal strength on 99 & 103 with an SL3 installed.

Also, has anyone noticed that the graphic representation for the dish change in setup if you select slimline 3 vs. slimline 5? Not only is it a different looking lnb (obviously) but the dish looks to be a different shape as well. I hadn't noticed this before, but never really paid attention before either. Perhaps the graphic changed with a software update? Is DirecTV tipping their hand or is it just a combination of my imagination & wishful thinking on my part for a smaller dish that is shaped specifically for 99/101/103?

By the way, does anyone know the size/specs on the sl3s lnb (slimline 3 swm)? How many tuners will it support? Will it be made by Eagle Aspen as well? Will anyone else produce either version of the SL3? WNC, CalAmp?

Finally, the SL3 is noticeably lighter than the triple sat lnb and considerably lighter than the 5lnb.

[tadfad]

No .. there is a key in the LNB assembly that won't let you mate the wrong dish to the LNB. If you have the Sidecar, then this LNB will not work. You would need to get the Slimline antenna.

Both the SL3 and 5lnb will slide into the arm of a "Triple Sat" 101/110/119 Phase III 18x20 oval dish. Photo 1 attached is a CalAmp 5lnb inserted into an RCA Phase III dish. In photo 2 you can see the bottom key of the 5lnb as well as the mounting holes. The SL3 has a similar key. The Slimline AU-9 dish arm has a matching slot that the key slides into. However, with the Phase III arm, the holes line up such that the mounting bolts can be passed through to secure the lnb with the key flush against the arm rather than fully inserted. A single bolt passing through is shown in Photo 3.

[tadfad]

This will be a home brew project but I'm going to build a 99/101/103 dish with the smallest reflector I can get, I have one out of a tracker unit thats around 12"x 15" square just for starters.

It will only be for good weather (clear sky).

I will post pictures and signal levels if successful. :)

As a follow up, Matt posted the above early on (back in July) in this thread and took the lead on this and should be credited for doing some impressive pioneer work. Plus he has inspired others to also test, contribute, and further the project - myself included. Hope these pictures are of help/interest to others.

If you are interested in a smaller / more portable (rv/tailgate) 99/103 capable dish , it's well worth checking out the thread Matt started entitled "Experimental Small Slimline3 Dish": http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=139735

In photo 1 attached, I am hoping to replace the dish on the right with the dish on the left (or one similar to it once more testing has been done) for portable rv / tailgate use. On the right is a Slimline AU-9 with 5 lnb mounted on a portable tripod with adjustable legs. On the left is a Phase III 18x20 oval dish with an SL3 lnb. In comparison, the "Slimline" hardly looks slim. That's why a homebrew experimental "slimmerline 3" is being tested.

In addition, if you note the differing angles of my two dishes in the photos above, you can see why it wouldn't work even if you broke the key. The angles are all wrong, so you'd be reflecting towards a point that doesn't even hit the LNB assembly.

Yes, the photos in post 150 demonstrate the angle difference well - Thanks. Also, this was an interesting analysis/calculation:

Doug's picture in post 138 showing both the AT9 and AU9 clearly shows that the LNB offset angle is very different, so that the Slimline dish surface is tilted higher, which reduces wind loading. Both are pointed to exactly the same position in the sky from a signal standpoint. My measurements of the LNB offset angle shows 23 degrees for the AT9 and 16 degrees for the AU9. This results in the Slimline dish surface being tilted 7 degrees higher in elevation, while still pointing (electromagnetic signal) to exactly the same position in the sky.

The above led me to modify the lnb arm mouth of the phase III to be able to tilt the lnb to a different angle toward the phase III dish and hold it at that better angle first with wire then self tapping screws. I also cut a slot in the arm for key insertion to try to adjust focal length as well as the angle. I can post pictures of the modifications in the experimental thread linked above since that is veering off topic for this thread. But for this thread, photo 2 attached may be of interest. It shows in an overhead shot the size difference of the dishes and lnbs and in particular, the longer arm length of the AU-9 vs. the Phase III. Measured from the base of the front of the dish, the AU-9 arm extends 18 5/8" while the Phase III length is 13 3/8". So in addition to the differing focal angle, the focal length is significantly different as well between the 2 dishes.

You can also see that the 99/101/103 lnb differs between the SL3 and 5lnb and how the oval 99/103 feed horns of the SL3 are oriented toward the dish.

[br408408]

Perhaps most interesting is that the feed horn openings of the SL3 for 99 & 103 are oval in shape. This is better seen in photos 3 & 4 of post #131 of this thread. Whereas the triple sat's are circular as are the 99 & 103 horns of the Cal Amp 5 lnb as seen in photo 2 of post 161 of this thread.

In other words, the 99 & 103 feed horn openings on the SL3 are taller but narrower in comparison to the CalAmp 5 lnb. I would describe the openings as football shaped.

I have an Eagle Aspen 5 LNB unit and the center 3 feed horns are identical to your Eagle Aspen SL3. I looked at you photos and then went out and looked at my dish (it's only 7 feet of the ground...not on the roof). They are also oval. By eye, I would say that you could swap the plastic cap between the two.

[harsh]

The SL3 is physically the same as an SL5 with the 110W and 119W horns chopped off. If you think about it, it has to be. The oval apertures have more to do with the fact that the satellites are so close together.

Making the dish taller would reduce the twisting load in a wind storm, but it would significantly increase the lever arm when it comes to tearing the dish off of its mount.

[doctor j]

The above led me to modify the lnb arm mouth of the phase III to be able to tilt the lnb to a different angle toward the phase III dish and hold it at that better angle first with wire then self tapping screws. I also cut a slot in the arm for key insertion to try to adjust focal length as well as the angle. I can post pictures of the modifications in the experimental thread linked above since that is veering off topic for this thread. But for this thread, photo 2 attached may be of interest. It shows in an overhead shot the size difference of the dishes and lnbs and in particular, the longer arm length of the AU-9 vs. the Phase III. Measured from the base of the front of the dish, the AU-9 arm extends 18 5/8" while the Phase III length is 13 3/8". So in addition to the differing focal angle, the focal length is significantly different as well between the 2 dishes.

You can also see that the 99/101/103 lnb differs between the SL3 and 5lnb and how the oval 99/103 feed horns of the SL3 are oriented toward the dish.


Please do post pixs.
I too noticed the "look" of the Ka lnb's on the phase III arm appears off. I extended the LNB out to 18+ inches and brought in 110 and 119 but still with trouble getting good signals on 99 & 103 at the same time.
Whats the best you've got so far??

Doctor j

[harsh]

Please do post pixs.
I too noticed the "look" of the Ka lnb's on the phase III arm appears off. I extended the LNB out to 18+ inches and brought in 110 and 119 but still with trouble getting good signals on 99 & 103 at the same time.The problem is that you can't change the focus of the reflector by making the arm longer. The more distant focus is required to direct the adjacent signals at the desired angle into the segregated feed horns.

A paper simulation would pretty readily show that cutting and pasting isn't going to work. A dish with a similar focal distance must be used to direct the signal down the throat.

[doctor j]

The problem is that you can't change the focus of the reflector by making the arm longer. The more distant focus is required to direct the adjacent signals at the desired angle into the segregated feed horns.

A paper simulation would pretty readily show that cutting and pasting isn't going to work. A dish with a similar focal distance must be used to direct the signal down the throat.

I agree however was attemting to "adust" the site of the lnb on the phase III arm to see if some improvement could be made. It was variable and an optimum point was obtained but was not adequate for long term usage.
My next variable is the angle of the lnb on the arm and the dish. Maybe some adequate compromise can be obtained. It is clear that under good sky conditions a smaller dish can get good Ka signals. Several of us particularly for temporary setups such as tailgating wound relish a smaller, easier to carry dish even if setup was a little more precise and signal stength not perfect (ie: >90's on all sats)

Doctor j

[tadfad]

The SL3 is physically the same as an SL5 with the 110W and 119W horns chopped off. If you think about it, it has to be. The oval apertures have more to do with the fact that the satellites are so close together.

harsh, I believe you would have to agree that the CalAmp 5lnb model 151647 is physically different than the Eagle Aspen SL3 when it comes to the 99/103 feed horns. Both the width and shape of the openings are different. Even the 101 opening and horn is different but I'm more interested in the ka horns. The CalAmp 5lnb has circular openings for 99 & 103 which are visible through the cover. Take a look at photo2 from post 161 in full size:

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15757&d=1222653765

Perhaps this design difference is part of the reason for the CalAmp's poor reported performance/reputation. For example, see:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=138309

Anyone know if there is a CalAmp model that replaced the 151647?

I have an Eagle Aspen 5 LNB unit and the center 3 feed horns are identical to your Eagle Aspen SL3. I looked at you photos and then went out and looked at my dish (it's only 7 feet of the ground...not on the roof). They are also oval. By eye, I would say that you could swap the plastic cap between the two.

br, thanks for confirming that when it comes to the Eagle Aspen 5LNB it has an identical 99/101/103 LNB to the Eagle Aspen SL3. What about the other 5lnb makes? Can anyone comment as to the design of the WNC? Is the WNC 99/101/103 feed horn identical to the SL3? Andrew?

Making the dish taller would reduce the twisting load in a wind storm, but it would significantly increase the lever arm when it comes to tearing the dish off of its mount.

A taller dish than the slimline already exists:
AT-9: 25.5 h x 29.5 w
AU-9: 22.5 h x 32.5 w

As discussed in this thread, the SL3 has a different look angle of the LNB than the AT-9 (see calculations posted by billcushman) which reduces wind load.

Can anyone confirm if the AT-9 lnb has oval or circular feed horns for 99 & 103?

[tadfad]

Please do post pixs.
I too noticed the "look" of the Ka lnb's on the phase III arm appears off. I extended the LNB out to 18+ inches and brought in 110 and 119 but still with trouble getting good signals on 99 & 103 at the same time.
Whats the best you've got so far??

Doctor j

Doctor j, my initial testing was done with the CalAmp 5lnb, but because of the design difference for the 99 & 103 horns vs. the SL3, I'm not sure how relevant my tests are for other lnbs. Plus, the CalAmp is supposedly reported as having the worst signal strengths of the available 5 lnb models so combining the CalAmp and the Phase III would have poor figures in theory. That's why I'm hoping to get a better understanding of the differences in the LNBs through this thread.

I can tell you though that the Cal Amp feed horns pointed too high from optimal on the phase III dish when the lnb was bolted into the regular mounts. Still though I got workable results with steady audio/video although the 99/103 balance issue is a clear hurdle.

By angling the lnb more downward (pointing more toward the center of the dish) the strength jumped up. The signal was being reflected more down the throat. You can do this by pulling the lnb out ever so slightly from flush at the bottom and using hand pressure to adjust the angle and you'll see the signal meter jump up immediately as you do it. I haven't been too worried about drilling into my CalAmp 5lnb base mount to experiment but it will only take so many holes so I used wire and other methods to keep it in place. I have been more gentle with the SL3 since it's a keeper.

Plus I have been bending around the mouth of the phase III lnb arm to adjust angle and focal length. Likewise with the dish, putting pressure on the outside edges of the phase III dish to increase the curvature to compensate for the 99/103 imbalance while watching the signal meter. May need to get a fresh phase III or my results may be atypical and difficult to duplicate. Luckily people are giving away/dumping the phase III when they mount a slimline.

So another way I experimented was to turn the lnb completely upside down and hold it steady as best I could by hand to find the sweet spot in terms of look angle and focal length. Of course it reverses the 99 & 103 reception, but you don't have the arm in the way and are free to move the lnb around. but you do end up seemingly blocking signal as well since the lower portion of the lnb (where the cables connect) gets in the way of the incoming beam before it's reflected. I tried going to a longer focal length to avoid interference but that quickly dropped signal even with the better look angle. Even with blocking of signal, you still can "freehand" experiment to get an idea of where the sweet spot is. It helps to look at the triple sat head design as well for the throat angle to try to replicate.

With the 18 5/8" arm on the AU-9 the lnb isn't in the way. But with the 5lnb on the shorter Phase III arm, I'm wondering if the extra 10" width of the 5lnb vs. the SL3 blocks some of the incoming beam. Am meaning to test that by putting a 5" wide metal object on the side of the SL3 (to duplicate the 5lnb extension) and watching the meter. Also meaning to test covering/blocking the sides of the AU-9 with the SL3 mounted while watching the signal meter to see how much of the dish is actually reflecting into the 99 & 103 horns. In other words, if I block the outer 3" (for example) of the AU-9 how much, if any, does that affect signal strength.

Once the sweet spot is found through testing hopefully there is an existing arm or Dish that's just right or easily modified. I started looking at arms & mounts from Dish Network and the bolt pattern appears to be the same - the 4 flat carriage bolts that mount the arm to the dish.

Or perhaps a universal bracket/magic bracket that will keep the lnb in exactly the right spot and angle. The combined 99/101/103 throat is 2 1/8" wide at its narrowest point and about 5/8" high. Don't know if there is a bracket holder that will clamp over this size horn.

I did get my hands on a Dish 500. It is the same height as the AU-9 - 22.5"high. But the Dish 500 is 20.5" wide. Looks like the phase III lnb arm should mount to it. The Dish arm has a Y adapter on the end so I'd need to modify it or get one of the other Dish brackets that would accept the SL3 if I want to try using the Dish arm with the Dish 500 with the SL3. The adapter bracket that mounts on the end is easy to change out since instead of being a 1 piece arm like with DirecTV models, for Dish there is an arm that the bracket mounts to. Then the lnb slides into the bracket. Probably better explained with photos.

I also have a para todas dish that I can get my hands on. It's oval 18x24 roughly. I don't know the arm length, but it does have a bracket mount. This is the model where the separate 101/110/119 lnbs are mounted to the bracket. Used for the "Sat C" kit. That arm has tilt and can likely be fitted with a different bracket.

Tilting the skew had a big impact as well on the 99/103 balance. Could be that the 5lnb was getting out of the way of the incoming beam as it was tilted - need to test that further. In other words, tilting one way got the lnb out of the way of the 103 beam. Tilting the other way got the lnb out of the way for the 99 beam. In other words, tilting the 119 and 110 heads down may increase the received beam. Don't know if that's the case or if it's simply the shape of the reflector. Obviously the narrower SL3 would make a difference if it is the case. But my comparing a SL3 to a CalAmp signal strength on a phase III probably isn't a fair comparison. Need to get a baseline comparison with the AU-9 first which I haven't done yet since the whole goal is to be more portable and avoid having to cart around the heavier, larger AU-9 along with it's heavier supporting tripod.

I could post further comments and pictures, but I'm veering too much into the experimental topic when there is another thread. Doctor J - I will post there with more and see you there.

However, for this thread, which is probably more read/watched than the experimental one, I am hoping to to get more feedback on the 5lnb designs (WNC, Andrew, AT-9) in comparison to the SL3. THANKS - Tad.

[tadfad]

br, thanks for confirming that when it comes to the Eagle Aspen 5LNB it has an identical 99/101/103 LNB to the Eagle Aspen SL3. What about the other 5lnb makes? Can anyone comment as to the design of the WNC? Is the WNC 99/101/103 feed horn identical to the SL3? Andrew?

In trying to answer my own earlier posted question, I did find some posted photos of the 5 lnb Eagle Aspen, WNC, and Andrew:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=108918
http://lh6.ggpht.com/dtvtek/RYdJGijMXWI/AAAAAAAAAAo/A7XrGcPLKHM/s288/DSCN2623.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/dtvtek/RYdI_SjMXVI/AAAAAAAAAAg/x_eS1-ImcZA/s288/DSCN2624.JPG
http://lh5.ggpht.com/dtvtek/RYdJLSjMXXI/AAAAAAAAAAw/u0tD1Q9ZKeQ/s288/DSCN2622.JPG

The shape of the feed horns looks physically a bit different for each, although it does appear nothing is different between the Eagle Aspen SL3 vs. the Eagle Aspen 5 lnb as far as the 99/101/103 lnb.

However, I can't tell if any of the other makes have circular horn openings for 99 & 103 like the CalAmp as shown in post 161 (above) of this thread. The white covers keep you from seeing inside on the WNC & Andrew. Clearly the Eagle Aspen has oval openings though. I can't tell on the AT-9 sidecar (circular vs. oval) for 99 & 103 either:
http://www.solidsignal.com/images/products/AT59_det_zoomA.gif

I did find some photos of the differing inside circuitry for the CalAmp & WNC:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1322936&postcount=275
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1333611&postcount=321

In addition to the link in post 171 of this thread, here is another thread on issues with the CalAmp 5lnb:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=106894

5 LNB Comparisons are also made in this long thread:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=104141

Readers with CalAmps may be looking to this thread thinking about replacing their CalAmp. If they are going to replace it, why not the SL3 vs any other lnb presuming they don't want 110/119 and aren't wanting to wait for the SL3S.

I have seen more than 1 post saying that it is recommended (per instructional videos) to realign after swapping lnbs on the slimline. Is that the consensus? If so, why would it be the case unless the lnbs were slightly physically different? This would seem to make sense unless you were swapping an Eagle Aspen 5 LNB for an Eagle Aspen SL3.

So my question is this: Is it a fair comparison to peak a slimline with a CalAmp 5lnb, measure signal, then swap to the Eagle Aspen SL3 and measure signal without realigning? Otherwise you introduce the variable of the alignment as well as the different LNB. I suppose you could peak with the SL3 first, then swap to the CalAmp and measure without realigning as a second test for a more thorough comparison.

I may be willing to do this and post results if anyone is interested but as I mentioned in my previous post, I am more interested in trying to get away from the slimline 32" dish as a portable and go to something smaller. But others may be simply looking to simply replace their CalAmp and swap LNB's. If they were to do that and end up with the same strengths (due to lack of realignment) that may be something they would want to know in advance. In other words, perhaps the SL3 needs some realignment to outperform an existing CalAmp and it's more involved than just a lnb swap. The difference in the lnb size & shape between the CalAmp 5 lnb and SL3 (as I have posted) has me thinking this may be the case though but I haven't tested yet on the slimline. Any thoughts/suggestions on how to make the best comparison would be appreciated although I prefer to only try things/experiment on the tripod dish and not mess with the rooftop dish and interrupt reception/change alignment.

I do at the moment have my portable tripod and slimline pointing out the window next to an H21 and television. I don't have line of sight out the window to 119, but that shouldn't matter.

[doctor j]

Tried briefly again tonight with phase III and WNC 5 LNB head. ( I have an SL3 but haven't worked with it yet).
Tried changing dish angle up or down.
Struck by difficulty in getting 99 & 103 together. Even significant differences in odd/even transponders.
I can get all channels but 99/103 odd/evens range from 50's to 70's on H-23 receiver.
Very sensitive. 1/4 inch may send signal from 60 to 0.
Not what I want but I agree goal to get more portable "tailgate" Ka dish is a desire!!

Doctor j

[harsh]

harsh, I believe you would have to agree that the CalAmp 5lnb model 151647 is physically different than the Eagle Aspen SL3 when it comes to the 99/103 feed horns. Both the width and shape of the openings are different. Even the 101 opening and horn is different but I'm more interested in the ka horns.Regardless of the outward appearance of the two LNB assemblies, they are geometrically and functionally identical as far as the Ka horns and 101 horn. We know this because they are interchangeable.

[Tebbens]

Just spoke to SolidSignal.... they are suppose have the SL3 in stock at the end of this month.

[tkrandall]

Just spoke to SolidSignal.... they are suppose have the SL3 in stock at the end of this month.

I emailed them last week and they told me "very soon"

[Doug Brott]

Just spoke to SolidSignal.... they are suppose have the SL3 in stock at the end of this month.

Thanks .. Folks will find this helpful I'm sure.

[HDTVFreak07]

I called DirecTV technical support and specifically asked for a SL3 replacement because I have no need for sats 110 and 119. Also specifically said that I am having problems with the dish itself, not cable, bbc's or anything else. I have been having troubles with pixelating on my tv's. They transferred me to a technician specialist and they're still clueless about the newest SL3!!! Are they out yet? A technician said that DirecTV is recalling all H20-600 so they're shipping me a replacement receiver. I told the person on the phone that even when I had HR20-100 in this house (particularly this one room), I have had nothing but problems. How in the whole wide world can I ever get SL3???? Any suggestions? Solid Signal only shows that I have to get 12 pack?

[skylox]

I purchased an SL3, just the LNB unit, off of Ebay. It was $50 shipped.
Works great.
Here is one
http://cgi.ebay.com/DirecTV-Slimline-3-LNB-99-101-103-Ka-Ku-HDTV-Mpeg4-SL3P_W0QQitemZ290265554052QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 290265554052&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[tkrandall]

SL-3 LNB now being carried retail!

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SL-3

[jimmyv2000]

read the description a misprint fom the old 3lnb dish
looks like they copied and pasted wrong info.

[tadfad]

SL-3 LNB now being carried retail!

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SL-3

Nice find - Solid Signal price of $39.99 (+shipping) for the SL-3.

Also they are showing the SL3-SWM for $89.99:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SL3-SWM

[tadfad]

read the description a misprint fom the old 3lnb dish
looks like they copied and pasted wrong info.

Yes, it shows 101/110/119 instead of 99/101/103. Here is the Solid Signal description of the SL3-SWM:

This is the SL3-SWM LNB designed with an integrated single wire multiswitch (SWM) which allows you to have multiple satellite Feeds at Once.This LNB has 1 output for the new Slimline dish from DIRECTV. This LNB is lighter and better looking. The Slimline encompasses three LNBs to receive 101°, 110°, 119° degree satellites.

[tkrandall]

Yes, it shows 101/110/119 instead of 99/101/103. Here is the Solid Signal description of the SL3-SWM:

This is the SL3-SWM LNB designed with an integrated single wire multiswitch (SWM) which allows you to have multiple satellite Feeds at Once.This LNB has 1 output for the new Slimline dish from DIRECTV. This LNB is lighter and better looking. The Slimline encompasses three LNBs to receive 101°, 110°, 119° degree satellites.

I contacted them about the listing and they will correct the info.

[Doug Brott]

Nice find - Solid Signal price of $39.99 (+shipping) for the SL-3.

Also they are showing the SL3-SWM for $89.99:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SL3-SWM

Interesting .. I have heard that the SL3-S went national just in the last few days.

[Shades228]

I called DirecTV technical support and specifically asked for a SL3 replacement because I have no need for sats 110 and 119. Also specifically said that I am having problems with the dish itself, not cable, bbc's or anything else. I have been having troubles with pixelating on my tv's. They transferred me to a technician specialist and they're still clueless about the newest SL3!!! Are they out yet? A technician said that DirecTV is recalling all H20-600 so they're shipping me a replacement receiver. I told the person on the phone that even when I had HR20-100 in this house (particularly this one room), I have had nothing but problems. How in the whole wide world can I ever get SL3???? Any suggestions? Solid Signal only shows that I have to get 12 pack?

If it's 1 room and not others a new dish will more then likely not fix the problem unless it's just a bad connection off the dish that gets replaced. By replacing the dish you might fix the problem on other TV's because you peak the new dish. I'm not saying it can't be your dish but bent reflector plates are very rare unless something severe happened.

[David MacLeod]

I called DirecTV technical support and specifically asked for a SL3 replacement because I have no need for sats 110 and 119. Also specifically said that I am having problems with the dish itself, not cable, bbc's or anything else. I have been having troubles with pixelating on my tv's. They transferred me to a technician specialist and they're still clueless about the newest SL3!!! Are they out yet? A technician said that DirecTV is recalling all H20-600 so they're shipping me a replacement receiver. I told the person on the phone that even when I had HR20-100 in this house (particularly this one room), I have had nothing but problems. How in the whole wide world can I ever get SL3???? Any suggestions? Solid Signal only shows that I have to get 12 pack?

they sell single, replacement lnb $ 89

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SL3-SWM

or the whole dish for $ 124

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AU9-SL3-SWM

[tkrandall]

they sell single, replacement lnb $ 89

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SL3-SWM

or the whole dish for $ 124

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AU9-SL3-SWM

Did he want the $39.99 non-SWM SL3, or the SL3 with the SWM?

[Satellite Samurai]

Is there any possibility of a multi switch for this dish for more outputs. Possibly using an SWS-4 to split to four, then running that into one of those SWM 2 or 4 way Expander like the one from PDI SAT. SWME2 and SWME4.

I know its probably theoretical, but any opinions on a similar concept for the SL5 SWM LINE?

[David MacLeod]

Did he want the $39.99 non-SWM SL3, or the SL3 with the SWM?

I may have missed it but did not see a sl3 12 pack, only the sl3-swm 12 pak so thats what I was looking at.
they do carry the non-swm sl3 too.
my laptop is bogging so the page wasn't loading right when I looked.

[bobnielsen]

The Solid Signal pages on the SL3 SWM have links to installation videos. It looks like an Alignment Signal Locator is required, although I understand that you can get around this with a power passing splitter if you use a Birddog or Super Buddy meter. I haven't seen any sources of the ASL, so they may not have hit the retailers yet.

[bobnielsen]

I may have missed it but did not see a sl3 12 pack, only the sl3-swm 12 pak so thats what I was looking at.
they do carry the non-swm sl3 too.
my laptop is bogging so the page wasn't loading right when I looked.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SL3-12PK

[Tebbens]

The Solid Signal pages on the SL3 SWM have links to installation videos. It looks like an Alignment Signal Locator is required, although I understand that you can get around this with a power passing splitter if you use a Birddog or Super Buddy meter. I haven't seen any sources of the ASL, so they may not have hit the retailers yet.


I have the ACUTRAC III Plus.
Will that work to align the SL3-S ?

Just watched the install videos.
How would I install the SL3-S if the ASL is not available ?

[Tebbens]

Complete SL3-SWM Kit at SolidSignal:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AU9-SL3-SWM-B

Includes:
Slimline Dish with Long and Short Braces
SL3-SWM LNB
SL3-SWM LNB Power Inserter (21V)
SWS-8 Splitter

[TheRatPatrol]

Complete SL3-SWM Kit at SolidSignal:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AU9-SL3-SWM-B

Includes:
Slimline Dish with Long and Short Braces
SL3-SWM LNB
SL3-SWM LNB Power Inserter (21V)
SWS-8 Splitter
Wow that kit even comes with monopoles.

[ocrts]

I just looked at the videos. It uses the ASL w/101 and 119 output ports. How would the alignment work with SL3-SWM, since it only sees 99, 101 and 103?

Also, what are the chances that the DTV contractor in my area (DC metro) would be able to install it?

[dieguy]

If you replace the LNB on a Slimline 5 LNB with the SL 3 LNB, do you have to realign the dish?

[evan_s]

You shouldn't have to but if you want the best peaked signal possible you might need to tweak it a little. I just swapped mine out and didn't do any realignment and it has worked just fine.

[dieguy]

Thanks! We'll give it a try.

[tadfad]

A couple of updates I noticed on the Solid Signal site:

SL-3 LNB now being carried retail!

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SL-3

1. The url changed slightly from before. Hyphen is now gone for the SL3 (single unit purchase). New link:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SL3

2. The description is now accurate. Formerly had read 101/110/119. Now shows 99/101/103 for both the SL3 and SL3-SWM

[tadfad]

I noticed an SL3 made by WNC on ebay (search SL3PIG-WNC or SL3 WNC) being offered for $22 with free shipping. Listing shows more than 10 available. The outer casing and plastic shield over the feed horns both look different than the Eagle Aspen SL3.

Anyone know if CalAmp & Andrew are making SL3's as well? Has anyone seen an SL3 for less?

[WB6PWJ]

Anyone want an Eagle Aspen SL3 cheap? I purchased two on ebay and only need one. $20 shipped

[knew001]

I just had my old sidecar replaced on Friday Nov 28. They replaced it with a Slimline 3. I did the sat setup and with it set to SL3 it no longer looks for the 110 sat or 119. It doesn't seem to change my programming in the least. All sat signals in the 90's now. No more rain fade for me!!

[tsanga]

Anyone want an Eagle Aspen SL3 cheap? I purchased two on ebay and only need one. $20 shipped

PMed.

[Tebbens]

Just watched the solidsignal video for aligning SWM.

If the ASL-1 is used for aligning the SL5-SWM (ASL-1 has 119 & 101 outputs),
how does someone align the SL3-SWM which doesn't see 119 ?
(I'm specifically using the AcutracPro III)

I'd like to switch from NON-SWM to SWM (because of single wire)
How do I determine if I should install the SL5-SWM or the SL3-SWM ?
I'm in 12540 w/HD and DNS on all 4 (SD of course).

Thanks!

[DFDureiko]

trying to follow this thread, as I was trying to understand if an old phase three could see 99 and 103 if the reciever is set to SL3.
I'm taking it that if the LNB was swapped out to an SL3 than I would work? it is in fact the LNBS that decide what sattellites they recieve, not the inside reciever?
Dan

[Michael D'Angelo]

trying to follow this thread, as I was trying to understand if an old phase three could see 99 and 103 if the reciever is set to SL3.
I'm taking it that if the LNB was swapped out to an SL3 than I would work? it is in fact the LNBS that decide what sattellites they recieve, not the inside reciever?
Dan

The old phase three dish received SAT's 101, 110, and 119.

The Slimline 3 dish receives 99, 101, and 103.

You need a Slimline dish for it to work with that LNB assembly. The old phase three dish will not work with it.

[harsh]

The Phase III dish has at least two strikes against it:

1. It is much too small to provide consistent all-weather reception.

2. It is designed to receive signals from satellites that are much wider spread as pointed out above. The foci of the dish just aren't set up to properly reflect 99W and 103W as they are so close to 101W.

[raoul5788]

The Phase III dish has at least two strikes against it:

1. It is much too small to provide consistent all-weather reception.

2. It is designed to receive signals from satellites that are much wider spread as pointed out above. The foci of the dish just aren't set up to properly reflect 99W and 103W as they are so close to 101W.

If a Slimline can get 101, 110, and 119, then a Phase 3 COULD get 99, 101, and 103. The lnbs would have to be offset, like the AT9 has them, but it could be done. Like you said, the size of the dish would not be good for marginal reception conditions.

[harsh]

If a Slimline can get 101, 110, and 119, then a Phase 3 COULD get 99, 101, and 103.No. The Slimline is set up to receive 99W, 101W, and 103W as well as 110W and 119W. Much of the Ku reception is based on just being a really big dish as 119 comes from just one edge of the dish. You may remember hearing "the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection" and the Phase III is set up for angles of incidence that are much wider spread.

Certainly you can get it to work under ideal conditions using aperture effect to bend the signal, but the point is that conditions are not ideal far too much of the time to make it a practical solution.

The Ku/Ka dishes are big because they MUST be.

[peano]

Just watched the solidsignal video for aligning SWM.

If the ASL-1 is used for aligning the SL5-SWM (ASL-1 has 119 & 101 outputs),
how does someone align the SL3-SWM which doesn't see 119 ?
(I'm specifically using the AcutracPro III)

I'd like to switch from NON-SWM to SWM (because of single wire)
How do I determine if I should install the SL5-SWM or the SL3-SWM ?
I'm in 12540 w/HD and DNS on all 4 (SD of course).

Thanks!


Aim it with the standard 5 LNB and just switch it out to the SL3. Will work perfectly if you don't move the dish.

[peano]

trying to follow this thread, as I was trying to understand if an old phase three could see 99 and 103 if the reciever is set to SL3.
I'm taking it that if the LNB was swapped out to an SL3 than I would work? it is in fact the LNBS that decide what sattellites they recieve, not the inside reciever?
Dan

It WILL work. Lots of folks do it for tailgating. You just have to make a small notch in the LNB support arm to accept the SL3. Its quite tricky to aim though.

[raoul5788]

No. The Slimline is set up to receive 99W, 101W, and 103W as well as 110W and 119W. Much of the Ku reception is based on just being a really big dish as 119 comes from just one edge of the dish. You may remember hearing "the angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection" and the Phase III is set up for angles of incidence that are much wider spread.

Certainly you can get it to work under ideal conditions using aperture effect to bend the signal, but the point is that conditions are not ideal far too much of the time to make it a practical solution.

The Ku/Ka dishes are big because they MUST be.

So you talked in circles and then said, yes it can be done. Didn't I say that? :confused:

[Doug Brott]

It WILL work. Lots of folks do it for tailgating. You just have to make a small notch in the LNB support arm to accept the SL3. Its quite tricky to aim though.

Which is why this shouldn't be a standard application ;) .. but sure, if you can make it work, I say go for it. It's a very clever way to recycle an old dish and can be useful in a number of special purpose situations.

[harsh]

Many who do this aim for a single satellite, so the multi-satellite capability of the dish doesn't come into play.

[peano]

Works for multi sats:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=139735&highlight=sl3+phase+III


From post 10:

"Done !! and it works great 85 signal strength for 103(c) & 99(c) 90-100 for 101.

Very simple I just used a flat blade screw driver to allow the key on the bottom of the LNB to pass into the metal tube,fits like a glove and secured it with two short self taping screws from the bottom. Note LNB must be flush and fully seated in the tube!

Elevation is 5 degrees higher than normal,phase 3 dish normal setting is 40 for this area,with new head found strong signals at 45.

Tilt should start at normal setting but small movements change the balance between 103 and 99 signals."

[Maui]

I currently have two dishes. One on the house and one on the shop next to the garage. I use two dishes because it's too far to run a wire from the house to the shop. Anyway, the dish on the shop is an older three LNB setup but I have an HD television in the shop. I noticed I can't pick up most of the HD channels in the shop and looking for the easiest conversion. I can pick up some HD but no locals. So, can I correct this by installing an SL3 on the old dish or do I need to replace the dish too?

Yes this is my first post here.

[harsh]

Your best solution to getting HD is to install some sort of Ku/Ka dish assembly. As you're only using it with one TV, you don't need anything exotic. Whether or not your SD locals come from 119W determines whether you can get away with an SL3.

[Jeremy W]

Whether or not your SD locals come from 119W determines whether you can get away with an SL3.
SD locals don't matter if HD locals are available, which they are for his location. He will be fine with an SL3.

[Tom Robertson]

SD locals don't matter if HD locals are available, which they are for his location. He will be fine with an SL3.

I don't quite agree with that entirely. Some CBS affiliates are having lots of problems with their HD feed lately (new equipment?) and I had to rely upon my backup SD version once this week. Definitely was not a DIRECTV "problem", the OTA was messed up too.

Cheers,
Tom

[RobertE]

SD locals don't matter if HD locals are available, which they are for his location. He will be fine with an SL3.

I don't quite agree with that entirely. Some CBS affiliates are having lots of problems with their HD feed lately (new equipment?) and I had to rely upon my backup SD version once this week. Definitely was not a DIRECTV "problem", the OTA was messed up too.

Cheers,
Tom

Just to expand a bit more. The HSP won't (read shouldn't) install a SL3/SL3S in a market that needs SD locals from 119. The QC (if there was one) will fail and they will be charged back for the install/upgrade.

Now, if this is a DIY project, then by all means the OP can use the SL3/SL3S. But he will lose all SD locals.

[harsh]

SD locals don't matter if HD locals are available, which they are for his location.Being an HD LIL "available" market doesn't necessarily mean that a market has 100% HD coverage. More than a few markets have a network affiliate or independent channel that isn't yet available in HD. Unless there are insurmountable LOS issues, a fully capable dish should be installed.

Given that the reflector is the same and a weight difference of a few ounces, what would be the point of doing otherwise?

[Maui]

With the dish on my shop I'm getting 101, 110, 119. I get nothing on 99a, 99b, 103a or 103b. I'm guessing my local HD channels are on 103. My zip code is 97086.

So back to my original question. Can I replace my current LNB setup with an SL3? Thanks for the replies. I don't want to purchase the wrong thing. I don't care about locals in SD. I want to pick up as much HD as possible with the least investment in new gear as possible. I've seen the SL3's on that auction site for about $25.

Here is a picture of my current shop dish.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/ilovemaui/dishphoto.jpg

[Jeremy W]

Can I replace my current LNB setup with an SL3?
You need to replace the entire assembly, including the mast. You can't just stick on an SL3 LNB.

[skylox]

You need to replace the entire assembly, including the mast. You can't just stick on an SL3 LNB.

I have to disagree with you, I purchased SL3 LNB and the intaller came with the regular dish, we just swapped out the LNB and I was all set.

Unless I am missing something here

[bwaldron]

I have to disagree with you, I purchased SL3 LNB and the intaller came with the regular dish, we just swapped out the LNB and I was all set.

Unless I am missing something here

I think the missing part is that the person doesn't have a Slimline dish already installed, but rather an older Phase III.

[Jeremy W]

I think the missing part is that the person doesn't have a Slimline dish already installed, but rather an older Phase III.
Exactly. You need to have a Slimline reflector in order to use the SL3 or the SL5 LNB.

[Justin23]

Is the SL-3 the standard dish used now for new HD installs or upgrades from SD?

J

[harsh]

Is the SL-3 the standard dish used now for new HD installs or upgrades from SD?It is used where both SD and HD LIL are both available to an SL3.

[personalt]

I am trying to figure out if I need a 3 LNB or 5 LNB setup. I read a lot of threads and they talk about you losing 119 but how do I know if I need to have 119?

I am just outside of NYC in NJ

I have 4 fairly new receivers.
H21, R15, HR20, HR22

but have two older untis
DSR704, DRD435RH

[jwd45244]

I am trying to figure out if I need a 3 LNB or 5 LNB setup. I read a lot of threads and they talk about you losing 119 but how do I know if I need to have 119?

I am just outside of NYC in NJ

I have 4 fairly new receivers.
H21, R15, HR20, HR22

but have two older untis
DSR704, DRD435RH

R15 and your older units will not work at all with a Slimline with an SWM LNB. I'll bet that you don't need the 110 or 119 birds. Someone smarter than me will chime in.

[personalt]

For that reason I wasnt going to go with SWM LNB

I was looking at this antenna
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=AU9-SL3

Was wondering if this would work with these older boxes and would I miss anything.


R15 and your older units will not work at all with a Slimline with an SWM LNB. I'll bet that you don't need the 110 or 119 birds. Someone smarter than me will chime in.

[GP245]

I am trying to figure out if I need a 3 LNB or 5 LNB setup. I read a lot of threads and they talk about you losing 119 but how do I know if I need to have 119?

I am just outside of NYC in NJ

I have 4 fairly new receivers.
H21, R15, HR20, HR22

but have two older untis
DSR704, DRD435RH

The New York DMA does not need the 110 or the 119 satellites.

[harsh]

Was wondering if this would work with these older boxes and would I miss anything.I was wondering why you would want to spend almost $100 and go through the pain and suffering of installing it when you already have a serviceable dish.