Microsoft Finally Begins to Build Marketing Campaign for Vista

[LarryFlowers]

Microsoft has been quiet about Vista and frankly they have been hammered in the press, on the internet and in those MAC TV ads.

They may have been quiet, but they have been building a campaign.

Microsoft recently went to San Francisco and recruited a group of Windows XP users who had expressed negative comments about Vista. They were taken to a facility and shown a "new" Windows Operating System, code name Mojave. They were asked to evaluate the system.

90% of the group had positive feedback and were pleased with the "new" system. Only then were they told it was Vista.

The effort was video taped. You can expect it will be used in ads.

Word is that Steve Balmer has decided that "enough is enough" with the MAC advertising which has definitely crossed the line. Be prepared to see a counter campaign.

[Hansen]

It's about time. Vista really has gotten such an undeserved bad rap.

[Shardin]

I agree, my wife and I both have new laptops (Intel Duo, 2 Gb ram) and they work and run fine. My wife is not a technical person and she has had no problems with Vista. It was a little harder for me as I moved from XP. Now (about 30 days) I am having no issues. It does take some horsepower, but if you have enough computer it seems to work fine. Oh Yes Vista Home Premium on both.

Just my opinion.

[Ken S]

Microsoft has really been suffering with Vista they've only sold 180 million licenses so far.

[Drew2k]

I like Vista, but they need to address the annoying pop-up UAC messages - Mom and Pop Sixpack will not suffer those gladly ...

[MikeW]

I turned UAC off. That fixed the popups!

[Jason Nipp]

I didn't upgrade because all I hear is negativity in regards to Vista.

[Drew2k]

I turned UAC off. That fixed the popups!Well I did the same, but I know what I'm doing and am willing to accept any "risks" of doing so. At my mother's house, though, where there's always someone playing on her PC, I'd want to keep the benefits of UAC without the annoyance of UAC.

[Greg Alsobrook]

too little too late... :D :p

I will admit that Vista is a decent operating system. I don't really have any trouble with it... But the more people that try out mac's, the more people that are going to switch.

[Michael D'Angelo]

I didn't upgrade because all I hear is negativity in regards to Vista.

I have upgraded all of my PC's from XP to Vista and I personally like Vista much better and do not have any problems at all.

I still have XP at work and hate using it now.

[Jason Nipp]

My wife has a relative at Microsoft. I may have to call to get Vista Ultimate and try it out. MS employees get awesome discounts.

[machavez00]

I think most of the issues were with PCs that were labeled "Vista ready" and weren't. PCs that come loaded with Vista run fine.

[PatentBoy]

While I use macs more often, I was part of the Vista beta program and my only real gripe was the over-the-top constant "are you sure you want to do this?" types of reminders - it really gets annoying.

Aside from that, Vista is generally OK with me, except for its complexity. While not really directed specifically to Vista, one thing MS can do, IMO, is simplify the experience - for example don't give me 15 different settings, including access to the software drivers, to fiddle with in the Displays control panel - just those 5 that 99.9% of us actually use. The OS is replete with this type of complexity - IMO, providing this extra complexity is an unnecessary negative for the Vista/XP OS experience.

[Dave]

I think that Microsoft has finally decided that they no longer sell or allow any businesses to sell Windows XP, that they had better start getting out ahead of the new sales that are going to be made with new computers that will have to have Vista loaded. All the Windows XP disc were supposed to be pulled from the shelves in the stores a couple of weeks ago. So if you are buying a new Windows Version it will have to be Windows Vista.

[MikeW]

While I use macs more often, I was part of the Vista beta program and my only real gripe was the over-the-top constant "are you sure you want to do this?" types of reminders - it really gets annoying.

Aside from that, Vista is generally OK with me, except for its complexity. While not really directed specifically to Vista, one thing MS can do, IMO, is simplify the experience - for example don't give me 15 different settings, including access to the software drivers, to fiddle with in the Displays control panel - just those 5 that 99.9% of us actually use. The OS is replete with this type of complexity - IMO, providing this extra complexity is an unnecessary negative for the Vista/XP OS experience.

You hit the nail in the head with this post. Another area that is too complex is browsing for a file. The folder navigation in the right pane is too small. Names get cut off and you need to know where you are going. To a novice, that may be very difficult.

[Brandon428]

I honestly loved Vista. I have Vista Ultimate and while it was a little irritating learning new shortcuts for this and that,overall it was a great OS. That's until I got a Mac. To me Mac OSX is superior to Vista in a lot of ways. The more I used Leopard,the more I became frustrated with Vista. Xp is better IMHO. Vista is a great OS but If you really want a powerful,intuitive,and reliable OS I suggest giving Mac a shot.

[ITrot]

Thanks guys... I didn't know I could turn the 'UAC' off... I found it to be annoyijng as well.

[Mustang Dave]

Does Microsoft even advertise their products? I can't remember the last time I saw or heard something on TV or Radio since the Windows 95 "Start Me Up" blitz. I see those Mac commercials at least once a week.

For home use buy a new computer get Vista on it no real issues now that the rest of the world has updated their software and drivers. Maybe the bad rap Vista received early on should have been directed at the third party vendors for not having their products ready?

From a business perspective I feel no incentive to invest in Vista for our environment. I "might" allow Vista to trickle in when desktops and laptops are replaced but other than that I am in no real rush to go out and get Vista. Start your ad campaign there MS.

[Nick]

With all the rhetoric about Vista, both pro & con, I have yet to see or hear a
compelling reason for me to "upgrade" to Vista from XP. I recently bought a
new Dell laptop that came with XP Pro factory-installed. If the day ever comes
when MS forces me to upgrade to a new OS, that's the day I go get a Mac

If you already own a late-model car that still runs fine, goes up to 90 MPH and
gets up to 30 MPG, why on earth would you spend money on a more expensive,
more complex vehicle that goes 91 MPH, gets 31 MPG and has the gear shift in
the glove box?? :shrug:

Color me dubious 'cuz I am not convinced!

[harsh]

I'd like to know if the test machines were off-the-shelf or severely custom configured (disabling key security features and the like). I'd also be interested in knowing what applications were installed and if they were the kinds of software that a typical user would use day-to-day.

If W2K weren't as good at (and so much faster than) Vista for doing what most people do...

If Vista didn't require so much new hardware...

[harsh]

So if you are buying a new Windows Version it will have to be Windows Vista.It won't take long for the discerning public to react to having the rug pulled out from under their feet.

There's a reason that the #3 bestselling computer brand in the U.S. is Macintosh. That reason is that Vista isn't the answer that everyone was looking for.

[Steve Mehs]

I think most of the issues were with PCs that were labeled "Vista ready" and weren't. PCs that come loaded with Vista run fine.

My nearing 5 year old Compaq Presario wasn't labeled Vista Ready, and it run superbly, I see significant performance improvements over XP Pro. My 2 month old HP that came with Vista SP1 also run terrific. I'd say 90% of all anti Vista remarks fall under 2 categories. 1) Ignorance and buying into hearsay and 2) Operator Error. Vista is a great operating system.

[Ken S]

I'm not interested in starting an OS war by any means. I have Leopard, Ubuntu, XP, Vista and Server 2003 running in my home. They're all good in some ways and bad in others...this especially includes Mac. Apple does great work on interfaces, but they'll also remove abilities from the user in order to make things simpler...that's not always a good thing.

There's another issue...and this is a biggie in the home market. You have to be running XP/Vista if you want to be playing the latest games with the hottest video cards.

The web and email sell low-priced home computers/netbooks.
Games sell the high-end stuff into the home.

Yes, I know there are some games for the Mac.

[Mark Holtz]

Does Microsoft even advertise their products? I can't remember the last time I saw or heard something on TV or Radio since the Windows 95 "Start Me Up" blitz. I see those Mac commercials at least once a week.During the launch of Vista last year, I saw that Microsoft bought some significant advertising time on CSI: NY.

Sigh.... I still do not like Vista for the following reasons: UAC. I have been using computers for ages, and kinda have an idea of what's good and bad. I don't need a babysitter to ask me "Are you sure you want to do this?" Steep hardware requirements. Windows XP can run fine on 256MB of ram, and run decently, while Vista requires 1 GB. XP requires 512MB-1GB of RAM to run smoothly. Vista at least 2 GB. Last week, Firefox was auto-upgraded from 3.0 to 3.0.1. The install ran smoothly on my XP machine. I had to run Firefox as an administrator to get it to install on Vista 64-bit. In XP, the display properties were consolidated into one control panel. In Vista, you have more mouse clicks to try and find the same functionality. The eye candy is nice, but I find it distracting and harmful to my productivity.So, once again, what are the compelling reasons to upgrade from XP to Vista?

And, we now have machines coming out with 64-bit processors. Why is Vista 32-bit still loaded on those machines? Wouldn't 64-bit be better?

[Yoda-DBSguy]

I recently upgraded a couple of computers at the house and office. Of course they came with Vista since XP is no longer available at retailers.

Although the machines are great the OS sucks.


It is incompatible with my NEC laser printer (no drivers for vista and it won't be supported in the future).
It is incompatible with my HP "all-in-one" printer/scanner/copier/fax (no drivers for vista and it won't be supported in the future).
It is incompatible with my webcam (which I really liked since it incorporated a composite video input for me to run additional distributed video signals to the net).
It isn't compatible with my Motorola bluetooth adapter (again, no drivers for vista and it won't be supported in the future).



Furthermore I spent more for a system with Vista 64 bit OS, which has several issues in itself.


There is no flash/shockwave or java player for any 64 bit OS; so about 1/2 the content on the net is unviewable at this point (crippeling my surfing experience on the net).

Not all hardware works with the Vista 64 bit OS even if indicated that it works with all releases of vista (they mean all 32 bit releases).

Not all software, even though branded compatible with vista, works on the 64 bit version of the OS----yes even in 32 bit emulation/compatibility mode)


Another Total BS release by Gates, that ended up costing me so much more then a few new PCs worth......

[OverThereTooMuch]

Yoda-DBSguy - If you're looking for help with these problems, please let me know.

I hope you realize that most of the time it's up to the device manufacturers to provide the drivers for their devices, not Microsoft. With limited resources available to them, the vendors can't support ALL of their previously release products with every new operating system. You should make sure to voice your concerns to all of these hardware vendors.

Could you please provide the model numbers for all of these devices? It may be possible to get the XP drivers working. If you can provide that info, I'll do what I can to help you get all of these devices working.

Browsing experience - I believe the default web browser on the 64-bit Microsoft OS's has always been the 32-bit version of IE. Java and Flash/Shockwave will work there. There are 2 shortcuts on the Vista menu...Internet Explorer and Internet Explorer (64-bit). Have you tried just using the first one?

64-bit hardware support - If a device has the "Certified for Windows Vista" logo (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winlogo/WLP30program.mspx), then my understanding is that it MUST have 64-bit drivers. There's also a new Windows Vista Compatibility website (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/) that will help you determine if there are Vista-compatible drivers available for your device. Are there other devices you have that have 32-bit Vista drivers but not 64-bit drivers?

32-bit software - Again, you should look for the "Certified for Windows Vista logo". These apps must work on both 32-bit and 64-bit machines. There are a small number of applications that I've heard of that do not work on a 64-bit OS. Mainly it's things like older versions of antivirus apps, or CD/DVD burning apps that install a driver. Typically though there's an updated version of these apps available that will work with the 64-bit version of Vista. Are there some specific applications that you've had problems with?

[Yoda-DBSguy]

Yoda-DBSguy - If you're looking for help with these problems, please let me know.

I hope you realize that most of the time it's up to the device manufacturers to provide the drivers for their devices, not Microsoft. With limited resources available to them, the vendors can't support ALL of their previously release products with every new operating system. You should make sure to voice your concerns to all of these hardware vendors.

Could you please provide the model numbers for all of these devices? It may be possible to get the XP drivers working. If you can provide that info, I'll do what I can to help you get all of these devices working.

Browsing experience - I believe the default web browser on the 64-bit Microsoft OS's has always been the 32-bit version of IE. Java and Flash/Shockwave will work there. There are 2 shortcuts on the Vista menu...Internet Explorer and Internet Explorer (64-bit). Have you tried just using the first one?

64-bit hardware support - If a device has the "Certified for Windows Vista" logo (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winlogo/WLP30program.mspx), then my understanding is that it MUST have 64-bit drivers. There's also a new Windows Vista Compatibility website (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/) that will help you determine if there are Vista-compatible drivers available for your device. Are there other devices you have that have 32-bit Vista drivers but not 64-bit drivers?

32-bit software - Again, you should look for the "Certified for Windows Vista logo". These apps must work on both 32-bit and 64-bit machines. There are a small number of applications that I've heard of that do not work on a 64-bit OS. Mainly it's things like older versions of antivirus apps, or CD/DVD burning apps that install a driver. Typically though there's an updated version of these apps available that will work with the 64-bit version of Vista. Are there some specific applications that you've had problems with?


LOL... okie, but you'll find the same answers I did, there is none....

HP T45 (all in one Printer/Scanner/Fax/Copier)
NEC Superscript 860 (Laser Printer)
Intel CS430 Pro Webcam
Motorola PC850 Bluetooth Dongle

Just FYI, others reported the same issues and I contacted each manufacturer's website to find they clearly state that they will not produce a vista driver for these devices. They further more stated for me to buy new equipment when I contacted each via phone as well.

On a second note, to clarify, for a software or hardware device to be compatible with the 64 bit OS version it must specify just that----compatible not only with vista, but the 64 bit logo must appear on it as well.....

PS shockwave flash and flash player by adove also state on their site that NO 64 bit clint is available, and that vista 64 bit runing in 32 bit emulation mose will NOT work.... They state that they have plans to support it in the future but list no release time frame...

[LarryFlowers]

During the launch of Vista last year, I saw that Microsoft bought some significant advertising time on CSI: NY.

Sigh.... I still do not like Vista for the following reasons: UAC. I have been using computers for ages, and kinda have an idea of what's good and bad. I don't need a babysitter to ask me "Are you sure you want to do this?" Steep hardware requirements. Windows XP can run fine on 256MB of ram, and run decently, while Vista requires 1 GB. XP requires 512MB-1GB of RAM to run smoothly. Vista at least 2 GB. Last week, Firefox was auto-upgraded from 3.0 to 3.0.1. The install ran smoothly on my XP machine. I had to run Firefox as an administrator to get it to install on Vista 64-bit. In XP, the display properties were consolidated into one control panel. In Vista, you have more mouse clicks to try and find the same functionality. The eye candy is nice, but I find it distracting and harmful to my productivity.So, once again, what are the compelling reasons to upgrade from XP to Vista?

And, we now have machines coming out with 64-bit processors. Why is Vista 32-bit still loaded on those machines? Wouldn't 64-bit be better?

1. Don't like UAC.. turn it off.
2. Never in my entire career with XP have I seen a PC with 256MB run XP in any manner acceptable to a normal human being.
3. 1GB of Ram sells today for less than 256MB of ram did when XP came out, so whats the dif?
4. Sounds like a FIrefox issue not a Vista issue.
5. Vista display properties are more complex... they have given you greater control over the appearance of your desktop than ever before. Why is that an issue, once you get the screen the way you want it, you will rarely go there again and if you don't like the eye candy, turn aero off and you dont have to see it.

I have a lsit of literally hundreds of things I like about Vista over XP, but here are my top 5:

1. Memory Management: You NEVER have to reboot Vista to clear the memory, you will never see a warning about system resources being low and nothing is open.
2. Security: Vista security, to date has proven to be superior to XP's, so far. Only time will tell if this will remain true, but If I had kids, Vista would be a no brainer, the UAC that so many find annoying would keep your kids from ever downloading something like that "Free" Emoticon download that nearly cripples your PC.
3. Networking: As an administrator of numerous company networks, Vista has been a true breath of fresh air. One client completed their move to Vista a year ahead of schedule because of the improvements in Network management made possible with Vista.
4. Productivity: An interesting side effect of Vista's hardware requirements.. people are getting things done faster because of the higher memory requirements of Vista. Think about it.
5. this is kind of a multiple feature thing: I love: the snipping tool, the sidebar, the sticky notes, the new control panel and the ability to adjust drive sizes (not all Vista versions) without 3rd party software.

I have been amazed by the number of people who constantly slam Vista and have never spent a single hour with it. When Vista was first released there were a lot of driver issues, people raised holy H about that.. but was that Vista's fault? The manufacturers had plenty of time to have their drivers ready for Vista, the failure was theirs. The fact that some legacy hardware will never get Vista drivers is a sign of the times. Companies aren't willing to spend money writing new drivers for old equipment when they can sell you new equipment. Vista's fault?

But the major driver and software compatibilities have been resolved, and yeah, I know your {insert name here} doesn't work. Sorry, if its deal breaker for you then don't upgrade. That's your choice and I'm ok with that, but it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with Vista. YOU made that choice.

Keep in mind, your favorite whatever will still not work 2 years from now when the next Microsoft OS comes out.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Vista is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It has its flaws.

Is it better than XP.. yes, ask anyone who has used it for a year. Is there anything wrong with XP? Well after all the time it has been out, there shouldn't be, but time marches on, XP will not survive the end of this decade.

[OverThereTooMuch]

LOL... okie, but you'll find the same answers I did, there is none....

HP T45 (all in one Printer/Scanner/Fax/Copier)
NEC Superscript 860 (Laser Printer)
Intel CS430 Pro Webcam
Motorola PC850 Bluetooth Dongle

Thanks Yoda.

Hardware vendors are really in a no-win situation here. They want to make quality products that will last. But they have to make a decision at some point to end support for a device. Many times that's many years before the devices stop working. But since in most cases they aren't generating new revenue on that old product, it's often an easy call to EOL it. Microsoft has absolutely no control over that.

Here's what I found for your examples:

HP T45 printer
Link1 (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00364959&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=60398) - The printer never had XP x64 support, so no drivers to try on Vista. :(

Last driver (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=228&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=60398)provided by them was in 2004. It's been an end of life'd product for quite a while.

HP states that most of the products not supported in Vista are > 7 years old. I couldn't find a press release stating when this thing came out, but this review (http://www.epinions.com/offc-review-2B9-730F837-39D95063-prod1)was done in October 2000. That means the printer unfortunately falls in this > 7 year old bucket.

-----
NEC Superscript 860 printer

Drivers (http://printers.necsam.com/printers/drivers/driver_display.cfm?p=361) were included with Windows XP, but there are no standalone driver packages to try on Vista :(

NEC considers all of their printers to be end of life'd (http://printers.necsam.com/support.cfm). They state that there are no Vista printer drivers available for ANY of their printers. I guess they decided to get out of the business completely, and I assume that would be why the driver is not included on the Vista CD like it was on the XP CD.
---------
Intel CS430

Last driver (http://support.intel.com/support/createshare/sb/CS-015583.htm)posted in 2002, never had an XP x64 driver.

Intel announced almost exactly 5 years ago that there would be no more drivers for these devices. They haven't made the product in more than 6 years.
-------
Motorola PC850 Bluetooth Dongle
I couldn't find info on Motorola's site about Vista support, but I found several threads online discussing the same problem you're seeing.
You might want to review this thread (http://forums.techarena.in/vista-help/803861.htm). It links to a driver package that some say works for this device.


What you can do now:
For the printers, you really don't have a choice. If you want to use Vista, you'll need to upgrade. Sorry.

For the webcam, I couldn't find anything comparable to that camera. Looks like you'd have to get 2 devices - one webcam, one video capture card.

For the bluetooth radio, take a look at a site like dealextreme.com. They have many bluetooth radios under $10 that they list as supporting Vista. If you read the user comments, you'll see which ones support the drivers included with Vista, and which ones use another vendor's drivers.

On a second note, to clarify, for a software or hardware device to be compatible with the 64 bit OS version it must specify just that----compatible not only with vista, but the 64 bit logo must appear on it as well.....There was never a 64-bit logo for Vista. That was for earlier OS's (like XP x64 and I believe Server 2003 x64). Please see this page (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/get/look-for-the-logo.aspx) for more info.

PS shockwave flash and flash player by adove also state on their site that NO 64 bit clint is available, and that vista 64 bit runing in 32 bit emulation mose will NOT work.... They state that they have plans to support it in the future but list no release time frame...I've personally used the flash player on Vista Ultimate x64 when running the 32-bit version of IE. More info on Adobe's website here (http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=6b3af6c9&sliceId=2) for Flash, and here (http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb403291&sliceId=1) for other Adobe apps.


So to summarize...you had problems with 4 products. 3 of them haven't been supported by the company that makes them in 3+ years (they were all EOL'd before Vista was released). For the 4th, it looks like there is a solution available.

Sorry that you had such a poor experience. Hopefully sites like the Vista Compatibility website will help others figure out whether or not their hardware is supported before they attempt an upgrade.

[HIPAR]

I have two XP computers, a Win2000 and, yes, one that's still running Windows 98 that I keep running. They all work fine and they aren't going to be updated.

Why? The actual combined monetary worth of these machines is near zero so the cost of one VISTA license, plus the cost of upgrading hardware and peripherals is way out of proportion to anything I can gain.

I would buy a copy of VISTA for my aging, but still reasonably capable, desktop if Microsoft didn't 'marry' it to that obsolete machine and allowed me to transfer it, at least once, when I build a more modern computer.

That's why I'm staying with what I have.

--- CHAS

[Doug Brott]

I've been running Vista for quite a while now .. pretty much since the "New Day" Launch.

For Me, Vista runs much better than XP ..

[smiddy]

I concur, Vista has been refreshing on my older machine. Though I do need to do a backup and refresh/restart my wife's XPS One, it doesn't recognize the Tuner any longer and the Go Back thingy doesn't work, ARGH!

[OverThereTooMuch]

I would buy a copy of VISTA for my aging, but still reasonably capable, desktop if Microsoft didn't 'marry' it to that obsolete machine and allowed me to transfer it, at least once, when I build a more modern computer. You might want to take a look at this (http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2006/11/02/news-revision-to-windows-vista-retail-licensing-terms.aspx) and see if it addresses your concern.

[sshams95]

All:

I am enjoying reading this thread. I am looking at new laptops and worried about going to Vista. All of my experience with Vista is nothing but what other people have stated about it...mainly negative. Reading this has put my mind at ease.

My simple question is this: Is it worth the extra $ to get Vista Ultimate? What are the benefits? Or is Vista Home just good enough?

Just as a background, I use my laptop for work and pleasure....I'm a CPA and have all of my client files on my laptop...tax and financial. But I also enjoy playing games, playing DVDs/MP3's, Slingboxing, etc.

[Michael D'Angelo]

All:

I am enjoying reading this thread. I am looking at new laptops and worried about going to Vista. All of my experience with Vista is nothing but what other people have stated about it...mainly negative. Reading this has put my mind at ease.

My simple question is this: Is it worth the extra $ to get Vista Ultimate? What are the benefits? Or is Vista Home just good enough?

Just as a background, I use my laptop for work and pleasure....I'm a CPA and have all of my client files on my laptop...tax and financial. But I also enjoy playing games, playing DVDs/MP3's, Slingboxing, etc.

I would not get Vista Home. Get at least Vista Home Premium.

I have Vista Ultimate on my Desktop and Vista Home Premium on a few laptops. For what I do there is not much of a difference to me. The OS is a bit faster on Vista Ultimate but I am using 64-bit on my desktop.

Either way you go I think you will be happy.