Network waivers on the HR21?

[TigerDriver]

I have HD network waivers for ABCE, CBSE, and NBCE.

A day or two ago, it was annouced that many several MPEG2 channels in the 70/80 range (TNT, the four networks, HBO, etc), were now mirrored in MPEG4 in the 390-channels.

I confirmed these mirrors on my HR20-100, then adjusted my Favorites list and and a few SL's accordingly.

Today, I started to make the same changes on wife's HR21-700, but discovered that while the three network channels are still available in MPEG2 in the 80's, the new MPEG4 in the 390's are not available. (They don't show up in CIR, and are grayed out in the Guide.)

My first impulse was to call DirecTV to correct the oversight. Before doing so, I went over the following conversation in my head:

ME: I have network waivers for ABC, CBS, and NBC, but I don't get the new mirrored MPEG4 network feeds in the 390's on my HR21.

CSR: That's correct sir because the HR21 doesn't have tuners.

ME: But the HR21 has always gotten the MPEG2 versions in the 80's.

CSR: I'm afraid that has been an oversight on our part, so I'm going to have to disable them at this time. I do apologize for the inconvenience.

So, I haven't made the call.

The questions, then, are:
(1) Do other folks get MPEG2 network waivers on their HR21s?
(2) Are you now getting the MPEG4 versions in the 390's?

[Dirac]

Yes. Try calling DirecTV and entering 711 at the "how may I help you" prompt to reauthorize your access cards (you may want to check your online account to make sure your HD networks are still on there before doing so).

[grizzly]

Directv has always been clueless on the waiver situation.

I'm a former fed employee and I speak bureaucrat fluently.

I went round and round with them over what the SHIVA and SHEVERA actually say. They blame the gov for not being able to do it. In fact for at least half the country they could have been much less stringent on their policy, but that would have pissed off the left coasters and made the right coasters happy. They missed out on a good revenue stream for a policy, not a law.

I have the SD DNS waivers and get both the LA and NY feeds, but not the HD LA ones and I should have been able to get them in both LA and NY versions because of my grandfathering, but becuase of the way their ordering system is, I couldn't , ..thats a policy, not a law.

The part that keeps the left coasters from getting is the part that says that you can't get the DNS stations from a timezone before you are able to get them locally....since LA is two hours behind me there is no such danger....like my daddy always said, you have to know the rules to be able to use them to your advantage...

My 390 HDs are greyed out as well, even the NY ones


Kevin

[Doug Brott]

Try refreshing your services from the following link:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/mydirectv/mysystem/mySystemResendAuthorization.jsp

If that doesn't work, then reboot your receiver, let it come all the way back to Live TV and then reboot it a second time.

Hopefully one of those two things will get you going.

[sbl]

Or you may be one of the many who will lose distant networks come next week, if you get your locals in HD from DirecTV.

[Doug Brott]

Or you may be one of the many who will lose distant networks come next week, if you get your locals in HD from DirecTV.

That is very true ..

[Maruuk]

Local-into-local HD is coming next week for new regions? Do tell!

[man215]

Or you may be one of the many who will lose distant networks come next week, if you get your locals in HD from DirecTV.

I have my HD Locals here in Fort Lauderdale Florida from Direct TV but want to get the Distant Networks out of the New York/New Jersey area. Is there anyway to get them if I have the Local HD Channels here in Fort Lauderdale? I want them basically for the NY/NJ local news. (I am originally form N.J.) Thanks, Mark.

[Jin So]

I have my HD Locals here in Fort Lauderdale Florida from Direct TV but want to get the Distant Networks out of the New York/New Jersey area. Is there anyway to get them if I have the Local HD Channels here in Fort Lauderdale? I want them basically for the NY/NJ local news. (I am originally form N.J.) Thanks, Mark.


Nope, sry m8 FCC regulations, if you already have locals or hd locals in your area, you are not able to get DNS, now if you live on the edge of your zip and in the middle of two markets and could not get them, then the local FCC guys would do a signal test and make sure you can not get them with a off-air antenna

But be execpting some chagnes done to the DNS here in about 3 - 5 wks for the worst, even the gandfather ones.

[sbl]

As Jin says, if DirecTV provides your locals, you are not eligible for ANY distant locals. Those who have had waivers in the past and where DirecTV has since added HD locals have been informed that they will lose the distant networks this coming week.

My advice to you is to look to see if one of the NY/NJ TV stations offers web streaming of their news programs.

[Doug Brott]

... now if you live on the edge of your zip and in the middle of two markets and could not get them, then the local FCC guys would do a signal test and make sure you can not get them with a off-air antenna

Actually, the rules have changed .. If DIRECTV offers HD channels in your DMA then you are not eligible for Distant Network Service (DNS). Since DMAs pretty much butt up against each other, there is no "in-between" zone anymore.

By the end of the year, DIRECTV will offer HD service to 88% of the country, so this will apply to virtually everyone.

[ryno2292]

Actually, the rules have changed .. If DIRECTV offers HD channels in your DMA then you are not eligible for Distant Network Service (DNS). Since DMAs pretty much butt up against each other, there is no "in-between" zone anymore.

By the end of the year, DIRECTV will offer HD service to 88% of the country, so this will apply to virtually everyone.
If I get locals via D* but not HD locals can I get HD DNS service? I checked their DNS eligibility page on the D* website and it says I'm eligible for CBSE HD and ABCE HD. Is that actually correct or would I still have to apply for waivers? My DMA (99) doesn't fall in that 88% of the country so who knows when I'll actually get my locals in HD.

[Doug Brott]

If I get locals via D* but not HD locals can I get HD DNS service? I checked their DNS eligibility page on the D* website and it says I'm eligible for CBSE HD and ABCE HD. Is that actually correct or would I still have to apply for waivers? My DMA (99) doesn't fall in that 88% of the country so who knows when I'll actually get my locals in HD.

I do know that it is per-station vs. per-market, so if HD locals are not available in your area at all (for a station), then you've got a shot, yes. If the web page says you are eligible, then that's a good thing for you.

[ryno2292]

I do know that it is per-station vs. per-market, so if HD locals are not available in your area at all (for a station), then you've got a shot, yes. If the web page says you are eligible, then that's a good thing for you.

Thanks for the info Doug. I guess I'll give D* a call and see what happens.

[blc]

If I get locals via D* but not HD locals can I get HD DNS service? I checked their DNS eligibility page on the D* website and it says I'm eligible for CBSE HD and ABCE HD. Is that actually correct or would I still have to apply for waivers? My DMA (99) doesn't fall in that 88% of the country so who knows when I'll actually get my locals in HD.

If you get a competent upper level csr who is familiar with DNS service, they should turn on the ones that you are eligible for immediately. There is no waiver to be requested or granted. You must first be ineligible to require a waiver. This is the entire purpose of the waiver. However, more often than not, the csrs don't completely understand this. Some do, and hopefully you will get one of those.

As to not being able to get HD distants if HD locals are offered, that would be purely a DirecTV choice for some subscribers. Many on these forums need to understand that the statute does allow subscribers to HD DNS before Dec. 8, 2004 to continue to receive the HD DNS. Another catagory the statute allows to continue to receive the HD DNS after HD locals are available are those who lived beyond a grade b signal, did not have HD local before Dec. 8, 2004, and add HD DNS before local HD became available. There is one catch to this last catagory, they MUST also add the HD local when they become available in order to keep the HD DNS-but the statute allows them to maintain both. The first catagory of "grandfathered HD DNS subscribers (before Dec. 8, 2004) do not have to also subscribe to HD locals in order to keep their HD DNS. DirecTV has tried to blame this newest policy on the "new FCC regs" or a "recent change in the law." Neither of these are correct because some subscribers can legally continue to receive HD DNS even after local HD becomes available if they meet certain statutory requirements.

Anyone can google 47 U.S.C. § 339(a)(2)(D). This is the statute for HD DNS. Subparagraph (E) is the paragraph that preserved the waiver process for HD DNS should a subscriber not qualify under any of the subparagraph (D) eligibility standards. Subparagraph (E) also preserved the waiver process for analog DNS.

edit: Also, what could be considered a third catagory of those able to continue to receive HD DNS are those who secured station specific waivers under subparagraph (E). These are not blanket or owner/operator waivers. Rather, these are waivers a specific station grants to a specific subscriber. These are the "rarely granted" waivers that most stations don't grant. Some do though and those stations have waived their exclusivity rights. Thus, those subscribers can receive both until the station pulls the waiver.

[TedBarrett]

As Jin says, if DirecTV provides your locals, you are not eligible for ANY distant locals. Those who have had waivers in the past and where DirecTV has since added HD locals have been informed that they will lose the distant networks this coming week.


I've had the 380s, both coasts for 12 years - I live behind a small mountain in Phoenix. For several years I've also had my locals on DirecTv - life is good.

Couldn't convince them to give me the HD 390s last year when I went HR2x. oh well.

I haven't been informed that the 380s are going away. Should the message have been in a bill or an email?

[Doug Brott]

I've had the 380s, both coasts for 12 years - I live behind a small mountain in Phoenix. For several years I've also had my locals on DirecTv - life is good.

Couldn't convince them to give me the HD 390s last year when I went HR2x. oh well.

I haven't been informed that the 380s are going away. Should the message have been in a bill or an email?

You are likely grandfathered for the SD channels. The recording was for the HD channels .. typically waivers granted to entire DMAs as part of an agreement between DIRECTV and the networks. Those markets will lose access on 8/7 .. which reminds me I need to go change a couple of Series Links.

[clueless]

If I get locals via D* but not HD locals can I get HD DNS service? I checked their DNS eligibility page on the D* website and it says I'm eligible for CBSE HD and ABCE HD. Is that actually correct or would I still have to apply for waivers? My DMA (99) doesn't fall in that 88% of the country so who knows when I'll actually get my locals in HD.

Yes. I am in the same situation as you. I get my local SD locals from D* but they do not offer them in HD. D* web site says I can get 3 out of the 4 networks in HD via DNS and I do (withOUT waivers). The one network their web site says I am not eligible for I do not get. I have tried to get waivers from the local network affiliate - with no luck.

All you have to do is call D* and pay the monthly fee. I think it's $1.50 / network.

[Jin So]

If you get a competent upper level csr who is familiar with DNS service, they should turn on the ones that you are eligible for immediately. There is no waiver to be requested or granted. You must first be ineligible to require a waiver. This is the entire purpose of the waiver. However, more often than not, the csrs don't completely understand this. Some do, and hopefully you will get one of those.

As to not being able to get HD distants if HD locals are offered, that would be purely a DirecTV choice for some subscribers. Many on these forums need to understand that the statute does allow subscribers to HD DNS before Dec. 8, 2004 to continue to receive the HD DNS. Another catagory the statute allows to continue to receive the HD DNS after HD locals are available are those who lived beyond a grade b signal, did not have HD local before Dec. 8, 2004, and add HD DNS before local HD became available. There is one catch to this last catagory, they MUST also add the HD local when they become available in order to keep the HD DNS-but the statute allows them to maintain both. The first catagory of "grandfathered HD DNS subscribers (before Dec. 8, 2004) do not have to also subscribe to HD locals in order to keep their HD DNS. DirecTV has tried to blame this newest policy on the "new FCC regs" or a "recent change in the law." Neither of these are correct because some subscribers can legally continue to receive HD DNS even after local HD becomes available if they meet certain statutory requirements.

Anyone can google 47 U.S.C. § 339(a)(2)(D). This is the statute for HD DNS. Subparagraph (E) is the paragraph that preserved the waiver process for HD DNS should a subscriber not qualify under any of the subparagraph (D) eligibility standards. Subparagraph (E) also preserved the waiver process for analog DNS.

edit: Also, what could be considered a third catagory of those able to continue to receive HD DNS are those who secured station specific waivers under subparagraph (E). These are not blanket or owner/operator waivers. Rather, these are waivers a specific station grants to a specific subscriber. These are the "rarely granted" waivers that most stations don't grant. Some do though and those stations have waived their exclusivity rights. Thus, those subscribers can receive both until the station pulls the waiver.


Pls, this is false info, if they do they are breaking the law and D* and the cust will be held repsonsed for the charges that can be received if the FCC want to file charges

if thyeare added, they will be disconnected with in a matter of hrs to days, this can be comfirned by calling D* and talking to a supervisor

[blc]

Pls, this is false info, if they do they are breaking the law and D* and the cust will be held repsonsed for the charges that can be received if the FCC want to file charges

if thyeare added, they will be disconnected with in a matter of hrs to days, this can be comfirned by calling D* and talking to a supervisor

Read the statute. Talk to all the supervisors you want, they are misinformed. Regardless, DirecTV has the choice and can discontinue any DNS they so choose at any time. But this information above is correct. Again, read the statute and stop listening to csrs that only know what they have been told by fellow csrs.

[Jin So]

Read the statute. Talk to all the supervisors you want, they are misinformed. Regardless, DirecTV has the choice and can discontinue any DNS they so choose at any time. But this information above is correct. Again, read the statute and stop listening to csrs that only know what they have been told by fellow csrs.

I know what the statue says, i was refereing to his comment about "talking to a upper csr" didn't want to modify the quote

[jdspencer]

..
By the end of the year, DIRECTV will offer HD service to 88% of the country, so this will apply to virtually everyone.I'm in the 12% group (DMA is 156).:( But, maybe that's not bad. It'll give my locals that aren't yet digital time to get to full power. Then I might be able to get them OTA and not need DirecTV for the networks.

[gocardinals]

I've had the 380s, both coasts for 12 years - I live behind a small mountain in Phoenix. For several years I've also had my locals on DirecTv - life is good.

Couldn't convince them to give me the HD 390s last year when I went HR2x. oh well.

I haven't been informed that the 380s are going away. Should the message have been in a bill or an email?

I'm in the same boat .. I have received the 380s, both costs, for at least 12 years. I live in Illinois. I would really HATE to lose the LA and NY feeds. I have heard nothing that I will.

[hdtvfan0001]

I'm in the same boat .. I have received the 380s, both costs, for at least 12 years. I live in Illinois. I would really HATE to lose the LA and NY feeds. I have heard nothing that I will.
The DNS feeds will be going bye bye as more LIL HD channels are launched in those areas....by year end...very few areas will have the National feeds.

Please see Doug's post #11 above...it tells it like it is...

[Doug Brott]

I'm in the same boat .. I have received the 380s, both costs, for at least 12 years. I live in Illinois. I would really HATE to lose the LA and NY feeds. I have heard nothing that I will.

I haven't heard what DIRECTV is planning on doing with regard to the SD locals. In February 2009, all of the local stations will stop sending out analog signals .. all of the waivers that people obtained in the early days were for analog. Will DIRECTV continue to send you those signals when the waivers are technically moot? I'm not sure they will, but again - I haven't heard an announcement one way or another.

Digital waivers are different and I believe some people have individually obtained digital waivers so that they can continue to receive HD DNS channels. Most folks will lose that in a few days because most folks had O&O blanket waivers .. I fall into this category myself.

[ryno2292]

Yes. I am in the same situation as you. I get my local SD locals from D* but they do not offer them in HD. D* web site says I can get 3 out of the 4 networks in HD via DNS and I do (withOUT waivers). The one network their web site says I am not eligible for I do not get. I have tried to get waivers from the local network affiliate - with no luck.

All you have to do is call D* and pay the monthly fee. I think it's $1.50 / network.

Thanks Clueless, now I just have to talk to someone competent enough to actually turn on the ones I'm ELIGIBLE for. I just called D* and talked to someone about adding the two HD DNS stations I can get from D* and first I was asked if I wanted my locals in HD or if I wanted the LA/NY networks in HD? Hmmm since my locals aren't available in HD from D* and I can't get the West coast stations I guess I'll just go with NY.

So after putting me on hold for a little while they come back and say I can't get them, it won't let them submit the waiver, whatever IT is. Which is the same response I got again after explaining that according to their very own website I don't need a waiver for any stations labeled eligible according to their DNS review page. After a few more minutes and the person on the other end not having a clue what I was talking about I figure I'll just try again tomorrow.

I'm not a complainer but how hard is it to turn on two channels that I can receive according to their own rules. I'm just getting tired of watching anything on network TV in a lousy stretched SD format.

[paulman182]

Thanks Clueless, now I just have to talk to someone competent enough to actually turn on the ones I'm ELIGIBLE for. I just called D* and talked to someone about adding the two HD DNS stations I can get from D* and first I was asked if I wanted my locals in HD or if I wanted the LA/NY networks in HD? Hmmm since my locals aren't available in HD from D* and I can't get the West coast stations I guess I'll just go with NY.

So after putting me on hold for a little while they come back and say I can't get them, it won't let them submit the waiver, whatever IT is. Which is the same response I got again after explaining that according to their very own website I don't need a waiver for any stations labeled eligible according to their DNS review page. After a few more minutes and the person on the other end not having a clue what I was talking about I figure I'll just try again tomorrow.

I'm not a complainer but how hard is it to turn on two channels that I can receive according to their own rules. I'm just getting tired of watching anything on network TV in a lousy stretched SD format.

It took me several phone calls to get the NY DNS, but I finally got thru to what they called the "HD DNS Qualification Department." They knew exactly what to do and turned them on instantly.

Someone has recently posted that there is no such department, however. I don't know if that means it does not exist or that the CSR did not know about it.

Since my HD locals are not scheduled to be added by DirecTV and I have no OTA here due to terrain and distance, I have received no notices that my HD DNS will be discontinued. However, the automatic waivers apply to "digital" stations, not necessarily "HD" stations, and beginning February 2009, DirecTV will be carrying the "digital" versions of my locals, since the analog versions will no longer exist. I don't know what that means for my NY DNS.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the "88%" figure refers to percent of the population, not percent of the country, unfortunately. That percentage is far lower.

[Brian Hanasky]

I'm in the 12% group (DMA is 156).:( But, maybe that's not bad. It'll give my locals that aren't yet digital time to get to full power. Then I might be able to get them OTA and not need DirecTV for the networks.

Me too. DMA 159. But although I don't get HD locals I do enjoy having E and W coast SD DNS. Having E/W coast DNS SD sure does make it easier to resolve those Network TV scheduling conflicts.

[cbearnm]

OK, I have had waivers in place since about 2000. I was getting both NY/LA feeds in SD

When the HD hit the bird, I had both for a period of time. Since then, I lost the NY HD feeds. When my locals (80 miles away, Albuquerque) went HD (about a year ago?), nothing changed. I still have SD from both and HD from LA.

I have received no notification that I am losing anything.

I know that it has been increasingly hard to get waivers, but if the local affiliates grant them (or pull them), don't they actually control who gets them. I think that theoretically, they (the local affiliates) could grant them regardless of signal, not that they will. Isn't this why NY customers can get LA and vice versa? As long as the 'locals' are owned by the network(s), you could request both (but not necessarily in HD, if it is 'ahead' of your time zone).

I guess we will see what happens when it happens. I found that the best method to get waivers is to email or call the local affiliate and explain the terrain problems, distance, etc. The engineers there will usually be able to determine if you can't get their signal well and tend to help out. At least, that's what worked for me. I'm not saying you will get them, they are tougher to get, but it's still worth a try.