Screen Format

[erict]

I have a question about screen format. On my hr21, when I go into setup then select HDTV tab and then under my video tab I have my “native” set to off which I want. Underneath that there is a setting for screen format, which I have set to stretch. What is this function for? Since I have native off does the screen format play any role?

[compnurd]

Curious, why do you want native off?

[loudo]

Curious, why do you want native off?
One thing, channel changes are a lot faster with "Native Off".

[loudo]

I have a question about screen format. On my hr21, when I go into setup then select HDTV tab and then under my video tab I have my “native” set to off which I want. Underneath that there is a setting for screen format, which I have set to stretch. What is this function for? Since I have native off does the screen format play any role?
It is for how the HR21 will treat non HD (SD) channels.

[compnurd]

One thing, channel changes are a lot faster with "Native Off".

I havent channel changed since i had a box with a guide

[hdtvfan0001]

One thing, channel changes are a lot faster with "Native Off".
Which is why I have had native off now for years. :)

[loudo]

I havent channel changed since i had a box with a guide
Mine changes channels faster, with Native Off, using either the direct entry or selecting it from the guide.

[veryoldschool]

Curious, why do you want native off?
To answer the reverse: why use native, because some TVs do a better job scaling the image to fit the display.
If yours doesn't or you can't tell any difference, then native off can speed up the channel changing since neither the TV or DVR needs to re-sync to a new resolution.

[dcowboy7]

I havent channel changed since i had a box with a guide

so u never even use "previous channel" u go to the guide everytime ?

[compnurd]

so u never even use "previous channel" u go to the guide everytime ?

well if i do that doesnt matter because more then likely i am changing a resoulution so there is a delay

[dlt4]

I havent channel changed since i had a box with a guide

Even using the guide, with Native off, switching to a local channel sometimes takes up to a minute. :confused:

[BattleZone]

It is for how the HR21 will treat non HD (SD) channels.

Not quite. It determines how the receiver will handle 4:3 content (which may be SD or HD). Not all HD is 16:9, and not all SD is 4:3.

[veryoldschool]

Not quite. It determines how the receiver will handle 4:3 content (which may be SD or HD). Not all HD is 16:9, and not all SD is 4:3.
What SD from DirecTV isn't 4:3? :confused:

[texasbrit]

Not quite. It determines how the receiver will handle 4:3 content (which may be SD or HD). Not all HD is 16:9, and not all SD is 4:3.

All HD is 16:9. It may have a 4:3 picture embedded in it, but the sidebars are added by the station so as far as the receiver and TV is concerned it is 16:9.

All DirecTV SD is 4:3. There have been a couple of occasions when DirecTV transmitted SD in 16:9 (World Cup Cricket a couple of years ago was one) but it was a big problem for most TVs so I don't think it will happen again. Similarly there have been a couple of OTA stations that did this in the past.
There may be a 16"9 picture embedded in the 4:3 picture but, again, the receiver and TV have no way of knowing that, it just looks like any other 4:3 signal.

[dcowboy7]

well if i do that doesnt matter because more then likely i am changing a resoulution so there is a delay

right....so with native off there would be less delay.

[curt8403]

I have a question about screen format. On my hr21, when I go into setup then select HDTV tab and then under my video tab I have my “native” set to off which I want. Underneath that there is a setting for screen format, which I have set to stretch. What is this function for? Since I have native off does the screen format play any role?

HD comes in 2 flavors. Wide screen, and non wide screen

wide screen fills the TV without adjustments, but non wide screen does not, and some people want it to so they stretch it. It does distort the image, but if does fill the screen.

[compnurd]

right....so with native off there would be less delay.

it is what, maybe 3 sec now, and drops to 2.5

[BattleZone]

What SD from DirecTV isn't 4:3? :confused:

Many 16:9 shows on HD channels are really widescreen SD, and get up-converted by the receiver.

Similarly, some HD programming IS 4:3 and doesn't have pillar bars added to the signal; those bars are created by the receiver. Obviously, some channels (ESPN is the best example) transmits everything in 16:9 and adds pillar bars to all 4:3 content from the studio. This is not the standard, though, and many channels don't.

This vast inconsistancy and lack of a single standard is why there has to be stretch and zoom modes on TVs and receivers, and for many, that choice is a good thing. For others, they are just confused, because they don't understand that not all content on an HD channel is not necessarily HD, or even 16:9. It will get even more interesting when broadcast goes to digital, and many stations turn off their SD feeds. Lots of people with SDTVs will either have to zoom the HD feed using their converter box or deal with tiny, unreadable (on their SDTV) graphics.

5 years from now, most of this will have been sorted out, and nearly everything will be broadcast in 16:9 HD, but during this transition, everyone is doing their own thing, and it's a mess.

[dcowboy7]

it is what, maybe 3 sec now, and drops to 2.5

its a bigger gap than that for me.

[gully_foyle]

I have a question about screen format. On my hr21, when I go into setup then select HDTV tab and then under my video tab I have my “native” set to off which I want. Underneath that there is a setting for screen format, which I have set to stretch. What is this function for? Since I have native off does the screen format play any role?

Stretch, pillar, original, etc have no effect on HD broadcasts. Only SD. None of the H2x or HR2x boxes change the format of an HD picture. Native or not native (other than the resolution of the output).

YOUR TV might, however.

Basically it goes like this (assuming you have the TV type set for 16:9):

Pillar box: the DirecTV box takes the 4:3 signal and adds pillars and outputs a 16:9 signal with black bars on the side to your TV.

Stretch: the DirecTV box takes the 4:3 signal and reformats it to a stretched 16:9 signal.

Original: the DirecTV box does nothing. It passes the received 4:3 signal to your TV. Your TV, however, may detect the 4:3 signal and do its own processing. You may be able to select what it does with a 4:3 input.

Many TVs will stretch a 4:3 signal themselves, making the Stretch mode and Original mode look the same to the user. Others can be set to add pillars.

Note: NONE of this applies to a 480p, 720p or 1080i signal, which is always passed unaltered to the TV. Many TVs also have different capabilities when it comes to the SD/HD boundary.

[veryoldschool]

Many 16:9 shows on HD channels are really widescreen SD, and get up-converted by the receiver.

Similarly, some HD programming IS 4:3 and doesn't have pillar bars added to the signal; those bars are created by the receiver. Obviously, some channels (ESPN is the best example) transmits everything in 16:9 and adds pillar bars to all 4:3 content from the studio. This is not the standard, though, and many channels don't.

This vast inconsistancy and lack of a single standard is why there has to be stretch and zoom modes on TVs and receivers, and for many, that choice is a good thing. For others, they are just confused, because they don't understand that not all content on an HD channel is not necessarily HD, or even 16:9. It will get even more interesting when broadcast goes to digital, and many stations turn off their SD feeds. Lots of people with SDTVs will either have to zoom the HD feed using their converter box or deal with tiny, unreadable (on their SDTV) graphics.

5 years from now, most of this will have been sorted out, and nearly everything will be broadcast in 16:9 HD, but during this transition, everyone is doing their own thing, and it's a mess.
I'm not sure what DirecTV system you're using since:
#1 HD never has pillarbars added by a receiver. It will have letterbox added if set to a 4:3 TV. ALL pillarbars on HD are added by the broadcaster on their end.
#2 since they're broadcast in HD resolution, the receiver isn't doing the upconvertion, but again it's being done by the broadcaster.
#3 all DirecTV SD comes in 4:3, though some is 4:3 and letterbox.

[veryoldschool]

Stretch, pillar, original, etc have no effect on HD broadcasts. Only SD. None of the H2x or HR2x boxes change the format of an HD picture. Native or not native (other than the resolution of the output).
This is only true when the DVR is set to a 16:9 TV. Change to a 4:3 and the format changes to the HD resolutions.
"Some" may set the DVR to a 4:3 even though they use a 16:9, as the format functions can work better with their TV/scaler.

[Ken S]

On my sets I've noticed the difference to be a second or two...I don't surf channels at all though and the picture looks better with Native On. Most of the delay seems to be a function of the DVR...especially evident when I see a title bar pop up with the old show, then black and then a title bar with the new show during a channel change.

[heisman]

To answer the reverse: why use native, because some TVs do a better job scaling the image to fit the display.


Bingo....anyone with a high end panel should be using native.

[heisman]

"Some" may set the DVR to a 4:3 even though they use a 16:9, as the format functions can work better with their TV/scaler.

VOS is all over it today. Once again, best to set it up this way with any high end panel.

[Drew2k]

HD comes in 2 flavors. Wide screen, and non wide screen

wide screen fills the TV without adjustments, but non wide screen does not, and some people want it to so they stretch it. It does distort the image, but if does fill the screen.I'm glad after 14 posts, someone finally addressed the OP's question about "stretch". :up:

[erict]

Stretch, pillar, original, etc have no effect on HD broadcasts. Only SD. None of the H2x or HR2x boxes change the format of an HD picture. Native or not native (other than the resolution of the output).

YOUR TV might, however.

Basically it goes like this (assuming you have the TV type set for 16:9):

Pillar box: the DirecTV box takes the 4:3 signal and adds pillars and outputs a 16:9 signal with black bars on the side to your TV.

Stretch: the DirecTV box takes the 4:3 signal and reformats it to a stretched 16:9 signal.

Original: the DirecTV box does nothing. It passes the received 4:3 signal to your TV. Your TV, however, may detect the 4:3 signal and do its own processing. You may be able to select what it does with a 4:3 input.

Many TVs will stretch a 4:3 signal themselves, making the Stretch mode and Original mode look the same to the user. Others can be set to add pillars.

Note: NONE of this applies to a 480p, 720p or 1080i signal, which is always passed unaltered to the TV. Many TVs also have different capabilities when it comes to the SD/HD boundary.

This #20 post sums it up for me. Thank you:D
Stretch, pillar, original, etc have no effect on HD broadcasts. Only SD. None of the H2x or HR2x boxes change the format of an HD picture. Native or not native (other than the resolution of the output).

[texasbrit]

Many 16:9 shows on HD channels are really widescreen SD, and get up-converted by the receiver.

Similarly, some HD programming IS 4:3 and doesn't have pillar bars added to the signal; those bars are created by the receiver. Obviously, some channels (ESPN is the best example) transmits everything in 16:9 and adds pillar bars to all 4:3 content from the studio. This is not the standard, though, and many channels don't.

This vast inconsistancy and lack of a single standard is why there has to be stretch and zoom modes on TVs and receivers, and for many, that choice is a good thing. For others, they are just confused, because they don't understand that not all content on an HD channel is not necessarily HD, or even 16:9. It will get even more interesting when broadcast goes to digital, and many stations turn off their SD feeds. Lots of people with SDTVs will either have to zoom the HD feed using their converter box or deal with tiny, unreadable (on their SDTV) graphics.

5 years from now, most of this will have been sorted out, and nearly everything will be broadcast in 16:9 HD, but during this transition, everyone is doing their own thing, and it's a mess.


No, this simply is not true, you are misunderstanding how this works. Read VOS's post. All HD channel transmit a 16:9 signal. ALL of them. And all of the 16:9 signals are in an HD resolution, the DirecTV receiver does not upconvert any of them from SD to HD. If the program was originally SD, the station adds the sidebars before the signal is upconverted to an HD resolution, the DirecTV receiver does NOT add the sidebars. Sometimes the original SD signal is actually a 16:9 widescreen frame inside a 4:3 frame - this happens usually when the channel does not have rights to the HD signal so they have to downconvert it and frame it in 4:3, so at that point the HD channel is transmitting a 16:9 picture, downconverted to SD and inserted into a 4:3 frame, with sidebars then added by the channel before upconverting to an HD resolution. It's a mess but that's how it is. Similarly all SD channels broadcast a 4:3 signal. It may have a 16:9 frame inside it but the DirecTV receiver and the TV , don't know that.

[heisman]

This #20 post sums it up for me. Thank you:D
Stretch, pillar, original, etc have no effect on HD broadcasts. Only SD. None of the H2x or HR2x boxes change the format of an HD picture. Native or not native (other than the resolution of the output).

I'd look for a different summation, since the information you are quoting is not accurate.

[drx792]

I'll just add this to the SD 4:3 discussion.

all SD has to be 4:3. 16:9 (or any other widescreen AR) content is squished into a 4:3 frame for SD. Since were not dealing with anamorphic widescreen here it is impossible to have "widescreen SD" without distortion.

[texasbrit]

I'll just add this to the SD 4:3 discussion.

all SD has to be 4:3. 16:9 (or any other widescreen AR) content is squished into a 4:3 frame for SD. Since were not dealing with anamorphic widescreen here it is impossible to have "widescreen SD" without distortion.

Just to complicate the issues, that's not entirely true. A couple of years ago DirecTV broadcast the World Cup cricket games in 16:9 SD, primarily I think because most of the subscribers were sports bars or restaurants catering mainly to people from India/Pakistan, and they wanted wide-screen. The source was widescreen SD (UK television). There were many problems because a lot of 4:3 SDTVs could not handle the signal correctly (as you say there was distortion) although many were OK, and of course 16:9 HDTVs did not have a problem.

Around the same time there were also a couple of local OTA stations transmitting 16:9 SD with the same problems - people with HDTVs loved it, some people with SDTVs were OK (displayed a 16:9 picture in a 4:3 frame) and some TVs could not handle it at all, just squished the picture into a 4:3 frame horizontally.

My guess is that we won't see any more 16:9 SD but you never know.

[erict]

I'd look for a different summation, since the information you are quoting is not accurate.

A quote from my op. Underneath that there is a setting for screen format, which I have set to stretch. What is this function for? Since I have native off does the screen format play any role? I understand 4.3,16.9 and all that stuff. What I am trying to find out from my post is this function in the stb menu. It seems to have no effect on HD programs. So by reading the post by kcmurphy88 it seems like a logical explanation of this feature. We have ventured away from my original question in this post.

[crawdad62]

VOS is all over it today. Once again, best to set it up this way with any high end panel.

This is only true when the DVR is set to a 16:9 TV. Change to a 4:3 and the format changes to the HD resolutions.
"Some" may set the DVR to a 4:3 even though they use a 16:9, as the format functions can work better with their TV/scaler.

It took me awhile to figure this set up out. It's exactly what I was wanting. I couldn't figure out why I could change resolutions in SD but not HD. Typically I don't want to stretch HD content but my kids watch animated shows and they want it to fill the screen regardless.

Finally I figured out changing the HD setting to 4:3 allows you to change HD resolutions. I prefer it this way since with the exception of Comedy Central and Turner Classic movies I don't really watch any SD channels if I can help it and I'd rather have more control over the HD content. So I have my box set to Native and 4:3 screen resolution and it's about as good as I can hope for.

I do wish it would allow resolution changes across content regardless (something my old SA8300 would do) but this seems to work well. I guess my TV does a nice job of handling it.