Reinstall slimline on wall instead of fascia?

[mikefeuer]

My new neighbors got a nice install yesterday with a wall bracket. I went over to speak to the installer, and he told me they started using them recently. Mine is shown installed on the fascia.

Mine is tucked away nicely in my front courtyard out of view. While I would like the wall mount it would make it more obvious, but I'm thinking it's going to do better in a hurricane. Depending on the storm, of course nothing is going to do well.

Does anyone have any thoughts on these different installations, and would anyone guess at what Directv would charge me to come out and remount ?

Thank you.

[armophob]

The wall mount is basically what I did using 2 standard 45 arms connected together. Good windstorm will rock that fascia right off.

See post #2 here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82853).

[mikefeuer]

The wall mount is basically what I did using 2 standard 45 arms connected together. Good windstorm will rock that fascia right off.

See post #2 here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=82853).

Many thanks for your reply and the link. That looks great, very secure. I would like that. I was not given any options 2-1/2 years ago, and now I'm concerned that the stronger installation would allow it to be seen from the front of the house (HOA). I'm on a corner of a cul de sac and still think it's better than everyone being able to see it on the passing street or from the back of the house. Thanks again.

I'll have to find out about a 're-install' fee.

[Mike500]

If at least two three inch screws are driven into the facia and the rafter tail, and the mounts of the two adjacent monopole feet are mounted with at least two inch lag screws into the ajacent rafters, you are as secure as any wall mount like the one your neighbor has.

[raoul5788]

If at least two three inch screws are driven into the facia and the rafter tail, and the mounts of the two adjacent monopole feet are mounted with at least two inch lag screws into the ajacent rafters, you are as secure as any wall mount like the one your neighbor has.

I disagree completely. From a building point of view, even though it is a thicker than normal fascia, it is a fascia. By that I mean it is not very securely affixed to the rafter tails. Plus the rafter tails by nature will skew eventually. If you were pointing an ota antenna it would be no issue, but those sats are 22,500 miles away. With the difficulty of aligning a ka signal, you want the most secure base you can get.

[Mike500]

I disagree completely. From a building point of view, even though it is a thicker than normal fascia, it is a fascia. By that I mean it is not very securely affixed to the rafter tails. Plus the rafter tails by nature will skew eventually. If you were pointing an ota antenna it would be no issue, but those sats are 22,500 miles away. With the difficulty of aligning a ka signal, you want the most secure base you can get.


As one who is experenced in structual engineering, I know that I can make that mount on the facia as strong as or even stronger than that mpint with the foot on the wall. Just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean that it can't be done.

[Mertzen]

How about moisture seeping in though?

[raoul5788]

As one who is experenced in structual engineering, I know that I can make that mount on the facia as strong as or even stronger than that mpint with the foot on the wall. Just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean that it can't be done.

I didn't say I couldn't do it, or that you couldn't, for that matter. I also won't go into comparing my experience in building with yours. That isn't the issue. My comments were to the op, and I stand by them.

[BattleZone]

I've seen more than one dish sitting on the ground, with a nice 6x10" hole in the stucco wall where it used to be. I guarentee you that most techs aren't going to be able to find the stud behind the stucco (most won't even look), so all you've got securing the dish is 3/4" of stucco and some chicken wire.

I would leave the dish on the fascia, especially THAT fascia.

[Mike500]

I've seen more than one dish sitting on the ground, with a nice 6x10" hole in the stucco wall where it used to be. I guarentee you that most techs aren't going to be able to find the stud behind the stucco (most won't even look), so all you've got securing the dish is 3/4" of stucco and some chicken wire.

I would leave the dish on the fascia, especially THAT fascia.

Well said.... I'll with you. Just because stucco liiks like it's strong, does not mean that it is. Long screws into three 2x6 rafters is definitely stronger than two long screws into one 2x4 stud in a wall, with the four corner screws of the mounting foot into crumbly "plaster" and "chickenwire."

[Birdman79]

White cable shouldn't be used outside,I've ran into tons of repeat service calls caused by worn out white cable in which moisture gets into it corroding fittings,ground blocks,and switches.I don't believe it has any uv protection.

[Mike500]

White cable shouldn't be used outside,I've ran into tons of repeat service calls caused by worn out white cable in which moisture gets into it corroding fittings,ground blocks,and switches.I don't believe it has any uv protection.

That might have been true 15 years ago.

Carbon black might be the cheapest UV inhibitor that has been out there, since the early days of Bakelite and natural rubber tires.

UV inhibitors in vinyl siding and NEMA approved and UL and ETL grey conduit has a design life of over 25 years. Some vinyl sidings have a lfietime warranty.

UV inhibitors have been improved in the past 10 years. White cable is often used in the South, West and Southwest. Just be sure that it bears the UL, CSA or UL label.

[mgtr]

You folks seem to have missed that the OP is in Florida, which means that the stucco is almost certainly over concrete block. That is a lot stronger than a 2x4 wall with stucco over styrofoam. I have a slimline mounted into such stucco in Florida, and I could do chinups on it (if I could do chinups).

[davring]

You folks seem to have missed that the OP is in Florida, which means that the stucco is almost certainly over concrete block. That is a lot stronger than a 2x4 wall with stucco over styrofoam. I have a slimline mounted into such stucco in Florida, and I could do chinups on it (if I could do chinups).

Ditto....

I have many heavy Tapcons in the base and mono-poles, I could probably hang an engine hoist from it. Previous dish, with the same mounting, did fine with huricane Wilma.

[Mike500]

Still, I would in a situation, such as yours, and especially if the rafters are open to access under the roof, I would get "hurricane" type galvanized steel brackets from Home Depot or Lowes, and reinforce the connections between the rafters, the facia and the tip of the wall.

This is an easy "do-it-yourself" job, since you do not move the dish or the mount.

[kevinm34232]

The "Under Eave Mount" shown above is used on houses with tile roofs or where the customer is dead set against the dish on the roof. I've done quite a few of these since Im in FL and there are plenty of tile roofs around.
To be done right, you'll need to drill 6 holes (1/2") in the concrete block and use 5/16" lag sleeves and lag bolts. I've seen tapcons used but wouldn't trust them with that heavy mount and dish.
Usually you can lag the monopoles into the fascia even if there's a gutter. All in all it's very strong when done.

[thespaceghost]

As one who is experenced in structual engineering, I know that I can make that mount on the facia as strong as or even stronger than that mpint with the foot on the wall. Just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean that it can't be done.

structual engineer or not, the fact remains most facia boards are simply slapped up and held together by a few nails, regardless of size. Not only will that setup eventually become a service call, but the dish is also causing stress on that facia board. From the pics, there appears to be no support for several feet.

Secondly, there are no lag bolts on the lower end of the mast. When the wind blows from behind the dish, it will constantly rock it, weakening the upper end of the mast.

[raoul5788]

structual engineer or not, the fact remains most facia boards are simply slapped up and held together by a few nails, regardless of size. Not only will that setup eventually become a service call, but the dish is also causing stress on that facia board. From the pics, there appears to be no support for several feet.

Secondly, there are no lag bolts on the lower end of the mast. When the wind blows from behind the dish, it will constantly rock it, weakening the upper end of the mast.

This is exactly my point, Spaceghost. BTW, I loved your cartoon show! :lol: :lol:

[Birdman79]

That might have been true 15 years ago.

Carbon black might be the cheapest UV inhibitor that has been out there, since the early days of Bakelite and natural rubber tires.

UV inhibitors in vinyl siding and NEMA approved and UL and ETL grey conduit has a design life of over 25 years. Some vinyl sidings have a lfietime warranty.

UV inhibitors have been improved in the past 10 years. White cable is often used in the South, West and Southwest. Just be sure that it bears the UL, CSA or UL label.


I know 3-4 service calls that had that problem ,the installation was any where from 2-3 yrs old.I could say that a high percent of the jobs that i roll too wired with white coax there's a cut or scrape in it.And a lot of 'em don't look like it's been installed a long time ago either.

[Grydlok]

I know 3-4 service calls that had that problem ,the installation was any where from 2-3 yrs old.I could say that a high percent of the jobs that i roll too wired with white coax there's a cut or scrape in it.And a lot of 'em don't look like it's been installed a long time ago either.

I take it you never been to Florida.
They do make dual white cable that is UL approved.

[mikefeuer]

Thanks for all the comments, I didn't expect to start a food fight. From my viewpoint, I can't imagine that a wall mounted install with tapcons in to the block isn't the preferred installation. I've written to Directv, curious what they will say. Thank you all.

[armophob]

As one who is experenced in structual engineering, I know that I can make that mount on the facia as strong as or even stronger than that mpint with the foot on the wall. Just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean that it can't be done.

As mentioned above, most stucco homes down here are CBS.
The foot of the new dishes are too large to fit on the fascia. Only 2/3 of the foot can be fastened and causes it to rock back and forth. This also gives no ideal location to attach the monopole. Regardless, the fascia mounted dish is no match for a tropical storm with sustained winds of 50mph and up.

[mikefeuer]

My reply from Directv:

"Thanks for writing. I understand you concerns with your dish.

As long as our installers can get a clear line of sight from our satellite, you can consider pole mount or custom mounts on balcony, tripods, brackets, etc. for your dish.

Please be informed that your dish was installed on the best position where it can get satellite signal with less or without interference. If you still would like to send a technician and have your satellite dish relocated, please call us at 1-800-531-5000 and a representative will assist you. However, this maybe considered as a chargeable service call.

Thanks again for writing."

[mikefeuer]

My reply from Directv:

"Thanks for writing. I understand you concerns with your dish.

As long as our installers can get a clear line of sight from our satellite, you can consider pole mount or custom mounts on balcony, tripods, brackets, etc. for your dish.

Please be informed that your dish was installed on the best position where it can get satellite signal with less or without interference. If you still would like to send a technician and have your satellite dish relocated, please call us at 1-800-531-5000 and a representative will assist you. However, this maybe considered as a chargeable service call.

Thanks again for writing."

In another follow up message to me they say the following (below in quotes). I replied again and told them to have someone contact me which will will save us all a lot of time, rather than me trying to get hold of an individual who can or wants to deal with this. I'm not looking to nickel and dime anyone, and I'm not looking for something for nothing. I believe that dish should have been properly mounted to the block wall, and it is their liability to correct the error. We'll see. Thanks to all who replied or listened...

"Thanks for writing. Currently, dish relocations for any reason other than technical problems cost $49 (plus applicable tax). In some cases, relocations for cosmetic reasons will incur multiple custom labor charges by the technician. Some of these costs may include labor for wiring, cost of cabling, special mounting bracket and or pole mounts.

We appreciate your business and we want to keep you as a customer. We'd like to speak with you to see how we can help you, so please call us at 800-531-5000 so we can assist you.

Thanks again for writing.

Sincerely,"

[Mike500]

When the comments started getting emotional, I bowed out.

If you want it relocated, then get it relocated.

Peace of mind is more important that anything else.

I never argue with a customer, as long as it is not illegal and dangerouus to his or her health.

Also, as long as they pay for the conversion.

[flipptyfloppity]

I strap a larger board to the fascia before attaching the dish. It's worked fine for me, even with an AU9 (with the braces) now.

However, with that board hanging down, generally your dish WILL droop a bit as the board flexes, at least over the first year. You'll have to readjust it and then probably never again after that.

I personally noticed when adjusting my dish this week that the entire small roof section (it really only hangs over non-living space) the dish is attached to can be lifted up a tiny bit, enough to mess up my signal. So attaching to the roof might not fix all problems anyway.

We don't get a ton of wind around here, but the wind hit 40+ for most of two days this year and it didn't have problems.

[BattleZone]

I believe that dish should have been properly mounted to the block wall, and it is their liability to correct the error. We'll see.

If you want the dish relocated, no problem; pay them to move it and they will if it can reasonably be done.

Having said that, the way it is installed now is NOT in error, is extraordinarily common, rarely ever a problem, and nothing that DirecTV or anyone under them is going to consider "bad" or "out-of-spec".

Also, you or someone acting as your agent signed off on the original work, and presumably accepted the initial site survey. Changing your mind later generally means you pay for the changes you want.

I'm not trying to be difficult; just letting you know what you should expect.

[mikefeuer]

If you want the dish relocated, no problem; pay them to move it and they will if it can reasonably be done.

Having said that, the way it is installed now is NOT in error, is extraordinarily common, rarely ever a problem, and nothing that DirecTV or anyone under them is going to consider "bad" or "out-of-spec".

Also, you or someone acting as your agent signed off on the original work, and presumably accepted the initial site survey. Changing your mind later generally means you pay for the changes you want.

I'm not trying to be difficult; just letting you know what you should expect.

Yes, you're quite right, it is my liability. There is clearly a better way I believe, and if I pursue that its a mere $49.00 to correct. Having said that, I tried to get the local vendor to find out what the "extras" are. I would need the wall pole, fittings, cable etc. They weren't available. I don't think it can be that much on top of the $49.00. Anyone have an idea ? Another $50 perhaps ? Thanks

[mjtville]

Nowhere in the DirecTV antenna installation manual for the Slimline dish does it show or even recommend the install of this dish on a fascia board. HSP in this area doesn't allow for mounting on fascia unless the entire foot of the mount can go on a solid surface ( must not hang over edge of fascia board ) with at least 6 lags, The 2 in the center have to go into the rafter, 2 lags on each side of center are to help stabilize along with 2 monopoles (2 lags each also into rafters.
Tapcons in masonry for mast mount, no, no, no. Always lead anchors with lag screws.

[mikefeuer]

Nowhere in the DirecTV antenna installation manual for the Slimline dish does it show or even recommend the install of this dish on a fascia board. HSP in this area doesn't allow for mounting on fascia unless the entire foot of the mount can go on a solid surface ( must not hang over edge of fascia board ) with at least 6 lags, The 2 in the center have to go into the rafter, 2 lags on each side of center are to help stabilize along with 2 monopoles (2 lags each also into rafters.
Tapcons in masonry for mast mount, no, no, no. Always lead anchors with lag screws.

I don't know if you can see from my pictures; approximately 3-1/4 inches of the bracket are below the fascia, with the bottom two and the bottom middle holes not in use.

While of course common sense tells me this isn't right, Directv advises the the "statue of limitations" has expired to complain. I take responsibility for letting it go this far of course. Mastec is the installation vendor here in south Florida. I can have a word with them and see what their manual says, but they might not have one :lol:
Thanks for your comments

[mjtville]

I don't know if you can see from my pictures; approximately 3-1/4 inches of the bracket are below the fascia, with the bottom two and the bottom middle holes not in use.

While of course common sense tells me this isn't right, Directv advises the the "statue of limitations" has expired to complain. I take responsibility for letting it go this far of course. Mastec is the installation vendor here in south Florida. I can have a word with them and see what their manual says, but they might not have one :lol:
Thanks for your comments

Oh, I hear you. Over the past 8 years I have seen some humdinger installs.
Me myself, would call Mastec and get a supervisor out there to take a look. I'm not familiar with the company but I would assume as a whole they know how to do it right.
I think that DirecTV is trying to get everyone on the same page as far as standard installations nationwide but it will still be a while.

[mikefeuer]

Oh, I hear you. Over the past 8 years I have seen some humdinger installs.
Me myself, would call Mastec and get a supervisor out there to take a look. I'm not familiar with the company but I would assume as a whole they know how to do it right.
I think that DirecTV is trying to get everyone on the same page as far as standard installations nationwide but it will still be a while.

I'm guessing there are many worse than mine. Mastec is a pretty good size outfit. Public company (not that it means much) http://www.mastec.com/

I intended to give them a call next week to see if I could do just as you suggested. Downside really is perhaps $100. Not the end of the world. . . Or I could just go back to cable and give me one less thing to worry about in a hurricane :hurah:
Thanks again for your time.

[mjtville]

Did Tropical Storm Fay effect you at all? How goes it with your request to Mastec?

[fl panthers]

You folks seem to have missed that the OP is in Florida, which means that the stucco is almost certainly over concrete block. That is a lot stronger than a 2x4 wall with stucco over styrofoam. I have a slimline mounted into such stucco in Florida, and I could do chinups on it (if I could do chinups).

thank you, i was going to say the same thing, stucco over concrete block(poured solid in some cases)is way stronger.hurricane wilma 10/24/05 93 mph wind gust at my home(davis 6163 weather station)at the time i had a 3lnb and did not remove it because wilma hit the west coast first and was supposed to be weakend.never even needed realignment on my dish. neighbors on facia, couldn't even find it

[mikefeuer]

Did Tropical Storm Fay effect you at all? How goes it with your request to Mastec?

No, we had no effect whatsoever from Fay. The dish is actually quite secure for waht it is. We also had miminal rain fade which I thought was interesting. I tried ot get hold of someone last week and was directed to someone to speak wtih but was unavailable. I have not had an opportunity this week to follow up with them. .