HD TiVO to HD DVR Plus Upgrade: SWM Ordering Problems

[erehm]

I called DirecTV Tuesday and got an almost immediate free upgrade + install to change out my two HD TiVo's (HR10-250's) with two HD DVR Plus's + a new dish. I specifically requested SWM technology since I have single cable drop infrastructure already built into my house and I didn't want new holes in my house, ugly wires, etc. Yes sir, DirecTV replied. Being a bit skeptical, I requested that the Home Service Provider (HSP) give me a call before the truck roll. Yes sir, DirecTV replied. I was ecstatic -- so easy!

After not getting a call this morning (Wed) from the HSP (the install was scheduled for Thurs a.m.), I got nervous and got the phone number for the HSP (Ironwood Communications, Colorado).

HSP: The work order says that two new cables will be installed

ME: I asked for SWM technology.

HSP: It doesn't say that, but I'll make a note. Maybe you should call DirecTV and get it noted on the work order.

ME: OK, I'll call.

I call DirecTV. The DirecTV CSR escalates me to "Technical", who can't (or won't) change anything. I to speak to Customer Retention. She can't or won't do anything. I ask her to call the HSP and ask them to install the SWM...I am willing to pay for it. We do a three-way call: me, DirecTV Customer Rentention, Ironwood in Colorado. (I live in Washington State). Ironwood agrees to have the local Washington State HSP (where the truck would roll from) call me before the end of the day. Here's what happens:

HSP: The work order says that two new cables will be installed.

ME: I asked for SWM technology.

HSP: It doesn't say that, so I can't do that.

ME: Can I pay you for the parts?

HSP: No, I can't do that. That would be different than the work order.

ME: Can you come and do everything *but* install the second cable. I'll buy and install the SWM8 myself.

HSP: No, I can't do that. That would be different than the work order and would mean we did a non-compliant installation.

ME: I'll call DirecTV and get the work order changed to remove the second cable install for each HD DVR Plus

HSP: I don't think they will do that.

ME: I'll try anyway and call you with the result.

Now, I think "this is getting absurd". They won't just let me have one cable to each DVR? Or, I am going to have to buy two HD DVR Plus's, a SWM8 and a 5LNB dish to get the installation I want? I really don't mind doing the installation work and I really do want the two free HD DVR Plus's and free new dish. So, I call back DirecTV Customer Rention again, speaking to a rep and his supervisor

ME: Can you change the work order so that the HSP does not install a second cable for each new HD DVR Plus?

DirecTV: No, you must have a second cable to the two DVRs.

ME: You have SWM technology; I don't need a second cable...

DirecTV: You don't qualify.

ME: I am willing to buy and install it myself.

DirecTV: We can't help you.

I hang up thinking this is getting even more absurd. They are willing to lose me as a customer over this? So, I call back DirecTV Customer Rentention about 4-5 more times until, on gut instinct, I hear a voice that sounds nice and informed.

ME: Can you change the work order so that the HSP does not install a second cable for each new HD DVR Plus?

DirecTV: You don't need a second cable. We have SWM technology.

ME (after a few moments of breathlessness): Yes, I know. I was told by other DirecTV reps that I couldn't get SWM.

DirecTV: They were misinformed. My supervisor will send the HSP an email indicating you want a SlimLine dish.

ME (I know that SlimLine dish is not the same as SWMline dish.): And the email will explicitly authorize SWM technology, right? I don't care if it's the 5LNB+SWM8 or the new SWMline.

DirecTV: Yes sir. It will state SWM technology.
I have not talked to the local Ironwood (HSP) person yet to a) confirm that they got the email, that b) it explicitly states SWM technology to be installed and c) that IRonwood will actually accept the DirecTV email as a change to the work order


What could I have done differently? Yes, I read the DBStalk "HD DVR (HR20/21) Ordering Tips", but they didn't address this situation...

Any suggestions on what to do if tomorrow I find out that Ironwood Comm still won't do the SWM install? They seemed bound and determined to drill some more holes in my house.

Any suggestions on how to make it easier for people in the future? There must be thousands of DirecTV HD TiVO owners going through the same absurd drill.


/eric

[Mertzen]

AFAIK SWM can not be ordered. It only gets generated when the system deems you are eligible and you are in a target market. SWM8s really are only for commercial projects at this point.

You might have to go DIY on this.

[RobertE]

You could have actually read all the information that I and other have posted stating that regardless of what a CSR says, SWMLine LNBs are designated for ONLY NEW CUSTOMERS.

[erehm]

You could have actually read all the information that I and other have posted stating that regardless of what a CSR says, SWMLine LNBs are designated for ONLY NEW CUSTOMERS.

I read your post. I didn't ask for a SWMline dish. I simply asked for a SWM8. The HSP was unwilling to sell me one. I said, I'll buy one and have it here for you to install. The HSP said they could not install it, and they could not do an installation without putting in the two additional cables.

Am I alone here thinking this is an absurd situtation?

[RobertE]

I read your post. I didn't ask for a SWMline dish. I simply asked for a SWM8. The HSP was unwilling to sell me one. I said, I'll buy one have here for you. The HSP said they could not install it, and they could not do an installation without putting in the two additional cables.

Am I alone here thinking this is an absurd situtation?


HSPs don't have them. As it has been pointed out multiple times, the SWM8s are going nearly exclusivly to MDU installations.

Yes, I think it's absurd that the situation is what it is.

I also think it's absurd that people read about stuff here and think that somehow, because they have just a tiny bit of knowledge, that they are entitled to get stuff that are outside of normal operations. Be it freebies, programming, equipment whatever.

Right or wrong, they got their rules.

[Mertzen]

I'd say. Buy one. Read up and make sure how everything needs to be done. Have HSP guy over. Offer him some green and instruct him every single step. Otherwise you're going to get nowhere but up the wall.

[beavis]

Solidsignal.com sells the SWM8. But like others have said, D*'s back end systems determine if the SWM gets put on the order. No CSR has the authority to just add it to the order.

[erehm]

HSPs don't have them.

That's not true. While I was on hold with the last (and more flexible) Customer Retention person, I called back my local Ironwood HSP and asked if she could find out if they had SWM technology available. "Yes, we have it in our warehouse", she replied. So, there is some wiggle room in the "nearly exclusivly to MDU installations" part.


Yes, I think it's absurd that the situation is what it is.

I also think it's absurd that people read about stuff here and think that somehow, because they have just a tiny bit of knowledge, that they are entitled to get stuff that are outside of normal operations. Be it freebies, programming, equipment whatever.


Well, I am not trying to be a idiot, here, but a) I do have two degrees in EE, b) have done a lot of Ham Radio, therefore have RF knowledge, c) Used to work for Thomson/RCA and have done due diligence investigations on firms that designed SWM technology, and d) have done my own MDU installation, including complete RF loss calcs, using Spaun cascading multiplexers, launch amplifiers, etc.

Remember, in the end, I DID NOT ASK FOR SWM TECHNOLOGY. I simply asked that the work order be changed such that the HSP only install one (existing!!!) cable to each HD DVR Plus. No less, no more. Neither DirecTV nor the HSP was willing to simply do less work.


Right or wrong, they got their rules

When someone says "we must drill two more holes in your house for you to get a free upgrade", then that's not rules, it's a recipe for disasterous customer relations.

[RobertE]

That's not true. While I was on hold with the last (and more flexible) Customer Retention person, I called back my local Ironwood HSP and asked if she could find out if they had SWM technology available. "Yes, we have it in our warehouse", she replied. So, there is some wiggle room in the "nearly exclusivly to MDU installations" part.


A CSR at DirecTv has absolutely ZERO idea what any given warehouse does or does not stock.

They most likely have the SWMLine LNB. Odds are heavily against them having SWM8s.



Well, I am not trying to be a idiot, here, but a) I do have two degrees in EE,


Ok

b) have done a lot of Ham Radio, hence RF knowledge,

Ok

c) Used to work for Thomson/RCA and have done due diligence investigations on firms that designed SWM technology,

Ok

and d) have done my own MDU installation, including complete RF loss calcs, using Spaun cascading multiplexers, launch amplifiers, etc.

Ok

None of that really means anything though.



Remember, in the end, I DID NOT ASK FOR SWM TECHNOLOGY. I simply asked that the work order be changed such that the HSP only install one (existing!!!) cable to each HD DVR Plus. No less, no more. Neither DirecTV or the HSP was willing to simply do less work.


When someone says "we must drill two more holes in your house for you to get a free upgrade", then that's not rules, it's recipe disasterous customer relations.


What do you mean you did not ask for SWM Technology? YOU put that in your original post. Here's what you wrote:

I called DirecTV Tuesday and got an almost immediate upgrade install to change out my two HD TiVo's (HR10-250's) to HD DVR Plus + a new dish. I specifically requested SWM technology since I have single cable drop infrastructure already built into my house and I didn't want new holes in my house, ugly wires, etc.

So what is it? You DID request it or you DIDN'T request it.

Not trying to be an ass here, but, you did your homework, good for you. Knowing what you learned, you went ahead and tried to get something you knew they weren't going to give you. Now, you come on here pissing and moaning that they didn't give you something you knew you wern't going to get.

Please.

[erehm]

So what is it? You DID request it or you DIDN'T request it.

Read my last exchange with DirecTV in the orignal posting. By then, I had given up on the SWM stuff. The three letters SWM had never made it into the work order or notes they keep. So SWM wasn't on my agenda on the last call -- I simply asked them to authorize "no second cable" to each HD DVR. As I said, to my surprise and to DirecTV's credit, this last Cusomter Rentention rep did suggest SWM and went to bat for me on SWM...but I did not bring it up first.

You guys are tough crowd. ;-)

/eric

[davring]

I do think the OP is not requesting something very difficult at all, he asked to install his new equipment with one lead only. Very simple concept, too bad no one could accommodate him. I think the best recourse, as mentioned earlier, is to tip the installer.

[Johnnie5000]

Here is how the new HD-DVR's work with one cable:


1- Hook the box up to the tv.

2- Force a software download. (red reset button then 0-2-4-6-8 on the remote)

3- The new software on HD-DVR's (Install Verification Software) is f'd up and weird to most installers so when it gets to the 2nd screen needs to show something to this effect.

--Slimline 5-LNB--
--Multiswitch---
--Single Tuner---
--OMS Order ID=--

4- Reboot after activation

You're good to go. Shouldn't be different from your Tivo, record only what you are watching, no dual tuner functions, etc.

[erehm]

Actually, I did my homework, but I did not realize that SWM8 was not a standard option. I had read all about the SWMline dish being difficult to get, but must have missed the SWM8 "restrictions" (which seem a bit flexible, it turns out).

So, maybe persistence is the lesson here. Not pissing ??? and moaning.


/eric

[houskamp]

You can aways buy the equipment from solidsignal.com and install it yourself..

[Kansas Zephyr]

May I make a suggestion? Just buy a SWM-8 from either solidsignal or dave29, before you have the HSP install.

It worked well for me.

I have pre-existing single coax runs, from the "old cable box" outside, to various rooms.

When I first self-installed D*, I just ran four lines from the dish to the outside box, feeding four rooms via the grounding block. I hated having single tuner use of my HR10-250.

I purchased the SWM-8, and self-installed it in place of the grounding block.

So, when the free "professional installation" that came with the SlimLine upgrade and a new HR20 arrived, I showed the installer my work...tipped the man...and politely asked if he could install the new dish and run the four lines to my SWM...and install the HR20 using the existing single cable.

He smiled, said this will be an easy install.

[erehm]

May I make a suggestion? Just buy a SWM-8 from either solidsignal or dave29, before you have the HSP install.
... He smiled, said this will be an easy install.
That's great advice. Thank you. /eric

[erehm]

Here is how the new HD-DVR's work with one cable....

This will be useful. Thanks! /eric

[gen2rx7]

I can tell you that Ironwood WILL NOT give you a SWMLine (as that is all they have, swm8 I do not belive they ever recieved them into inventory, at least not in my office.)

I work for Ironwood and I CAN'T even get a SWMLine for my own house, and I am one of 3 techs that are certified for SWM installs. They are only reserved for New Installs with 5 or more total tuners, with one high def reciever( HD or HD DVR.) We are also REQUIRED to connect 2 lines to each and every DVR (non SWM set up). If we can't get the 2nd line we are not supposed to go ahead with the job.

Good luck tomorrow.

[Kansas Zephyr]

We are also REQUIRED to connect 2 lines to each and every DVR (non SWM set up). If we can't get the 2nd line we are not supposed to go ahead with the job.
See post #15.

My HSP is/was Ironwood.

Once I showed him, and he verified that I had a SWM self-installed, he did install the HR20 using a single cable. (Same result when I got the "HD swap" HR21 installation later, too.)

[evan_s]

The situation is unfortunate but not unexpected. As has been mentioned the Slimlnb is only used for new installs which would require a multiswitch and have at least one HD DVR being installed and even then it's only in some areas. The SWM8s are not available for home installs from the HSPs either. I'm sure both these situations will change in the future but thats where it is at this point.

Your best bet is to buy the SWM8 at www.solidsignal.com or from Dave29 here and just have it ready. Be prepared to help the installer or explain the process and probably add a little extra motivation but generally people have reported good success with that. They may be a little hesitant but generally once they realize it will make their life easier and allow them to get this install done they are willing to give it a go.

[erehm]

I can tell you that Ironwood WILL NOT give you a SWMLine ...Good luck tomorrow.

DirecTV and HSP both came through for me in grand style. Here's what happened. I called the local HSP (Ironwood) office this morning to see if they got the email that DirecTV promised to send. I ended up talking to a trainer completely familiar with SWM technology, who then contacted a regional(?) DirecTV manager. Their proposal was to sell me a SWMline dish and proceed with the install. The cost to was me 2.5x the price of a SWM-8, so I asked if they would instead bring a 5LNB dish (part of the original free upgrade) and I would supply a SWM-8. They agreed to this and promised to send a SWM-trained installer. So while a SWMline dish would have been a little slicker, I achieved my goal: a dual HD DVR Plus upgrade with no additional cables run to my new HD DVRs.

The discussion with the local HSP this morning was completely supportive of my goal, professional and just plain friendly. Kudos to her as well as Ironwood and DirecTV for working together.

[erehm]

Solid Signal sent out the wrong part yesterday: an SWS-8 passive splitter instead of the SWM-8 switch.

I called and Solid Signal fixed it right away: They are sending me the SWM-8 via FedEx with Saturday delivery, no extra charge. (I did end up buying the SWS-8 in case I ever add a third SWM-capable receiver.)

So, kudos to Solid Signal too!

Meanwhile, I am patching in a spare ethernet switch to my home's CAT5 cable plant so that I'll be ready to get the two HD DVR Plus's onto the Internet for DirecTV's VOD service. Stay tuned!

[erehm]

Last's Saturday's install went perfectly. Both HR21-100's came up right away. I plugged in the ethernet and DirecTV on Demand fired right up. I watched the Olympics (including part of a VOD clip) until about midnight. Yahoo!

The next morning, neither HR21 had a signal. I turned off the HR21 on the SWM2 port of the SWM-8. I tried waiting 15 sec, 10 min, and 2 hours between power-cycling the other HR-21 and PI on the SWM1 port. Along the way, the "Switch Type" setting flipped to "multiswitch", possible after the first red button reset; I changed this back to SWM8, with "Dish Type" set to Slimline-5. No signal on any satellite/transponder. So, something died.

Now DirecTV won't be out until Thursday and I am watching the Olympics on my TV's analog input with rabbit ears. ;-)

Stay tuned for the next installment.

[evan_s]

Have you tried powering down both receivers and then the the SWM. Then power up the swm and wait a minute or 2 for it to come up then boot up the receivers.

[dave29]

also, check all the basics.
-make sure he did not install the bbc's
-make sure there is at least 15' cable between the PI and the SWM8
-also, the dish install may not have been that great and it moved overnight causing the lost signals

[erehm]

Thanks for your help!

Have you tried powering down both receivers and then the the SWM. Then power up the swm and wait a minute or 2 for it to come up then boot up the receivers.

Did this first thing. No dice.

also, check all the basics.
-make sure he did not install the bbc's
-make sure there is at least 15' cable between the PI and the SWM8
-also, the dish install may not have been that great and it moved overnight causing the lost signals

No bbc's, probably 12' from PI to SWM8. I'll let DirecTV try wiggling the dish on Thursday.

[kmattoo]

I'm having the same issue as a new Dtv customer. I can't get the local company in LA (Ironwood) or DirecTV to put the SWMLine Dish on my order. I live in Los Angeles and ordered 2 dual tuner HD DVRs, but no one can put the SWMline on the order form somehow.

[RobertE]

I'm having the same issue as a new Dtv customer. I can't get the local company in LA (Ironwood) or DirecTV to put the SWMLine Dish on my order. I live in Los Angeles and ordered 2 dual tuner HD DVRs, but no one can put the SWMline on the order form somehow.

Thats because you don't meet the criteria for it:

-New customer
-5 or more tuners
-At least one HD

They have the ordering system set up so CSRs can't put items that are not required for the job onto the workorder. Unnecessary items cost them money.

[evan_s]

Thanks for your help!
No bbc's, probably 12' from PI to SWM8. I'll let DirecTV try wiggling the dish on Thursday.

Are you seeing the green light on inside the power inserter and what lights are on on the SWM8?

[Johnnie5000]

Last's Saturday's install went perfectly. Both HR21-100's came up right away. I plugged in the ethernet and DirecTV on Demand fired right up. I watched the Olympics (including part of a VOD clip) until about midnight. Yahoo!

The next morning, neither HR21 had a signal. I turned off the HR21 on the SWM2 port of the SWM-8. I tried waiting 15 sec, 10 min, and 2 hours between power-cycling the other HR-21 and PI on the SWM1 port. Along the way, the "Switch Type" setting flipped to "multiswitch", possible after the first red button reset; I changed this back to SWM8, with "Dish Type" set to Slimline-5. No signal on any satellite/transponder. So, something died.

Now DirecTV won't be out until Thursday and I am watching the Olympics on my TV's analog input with rabbit ears. ;-)

Stay tuned for the next installment.

One of our trainers mentioned something about this happening. He said that everytime the IRD's lose power, even for a split-second (overnight power flux maybe) that all boxes on the swm would lose signal and need to be rebooted one at a time. Something about the IRD's losing their channel assignments.
Try the red-reset-button and cross your fingers.

[kmattoo]

I ended up canceling my first order and then called back and talked to the CSR about a new order and explained I wanted a SWM.

It took a while to explain what the SWM was to her, but she ended up calling the local company, putting it on the work order, and this morning the local installer said that I had been approved for the SWMline antenna.

So hopefully, Monday morning, they will have all the equipment for the install.

[erehm]

...The next morning, neither HR21 had a signal. ...
Yesterday, DirecTV replaced the SWM8 and I am back up and running on both HR21-100's. So, my first SWM8 was a victim of "infant mortality", as they say.

[jdmac29]

You had alot of trouble also I see. When I did movers connection I already owned swm 5 and told directv I had one and I would like a r16 dvr that was compatible with that. They said no problem. I ended up getting a r15 and the guy wanted to run another cable in my new home for the 2nd tuner. I said no and did not take the r15. He then had to get special permission from his boss to run the lines through my swm 5. basically we spent more time on the phone with directv than we did on the entire install. Later I got the r16 to go with my hr20 so all if fine.
The swm is great I have even diplexed in my ota signal just recently.

[Deftones]

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that is having this problem. Called up mover's connection a few weeks ago for installation today. Talked to the CSR and told her exactly what I needed (SWM, dish, etc). The tech comes out with none of that. So, I talk to him and ask him to install the dish he has, run two lines in my family room, and the one lines that are already run in the bedrooms to remain the same. He refused to do so, saying it's DirecTVs policy to install 2 lines to every HD-DVR. I told him that in my last house, they ran one line to both rooms and the techs had absolutely no problem doing that. He argued with me and said he woudn't do it. So, I kicked him out of my house and made an angry call to DirecTV to reschedule. I told the guy the reason why I wanted the SWM was so that I don't have to cut into walls and fish wire everywhere. I can understand why they want to do 2 lines (obviously so they don't have to send techs out to run more lines later), but I told them specifically i didn't want them. You should be able to choose how you get your install done (within reason). Got new scheduled installation for Sunday, and hoping that the new tech comes out with the right dish and single wire multiswitch.

[kmattoo]

My install went very well today. Had the SWM ready to go and had the dish and both HD DVRs installed in about 2 hours.

Only issue I see is a line through the middle of the screen on ESPN, but no other HD channels have the issue, so I'm not sure how to resolve that one....

[texasbrit]

My install went very well today. Had the SWM ready to go and had the dish and both HD DVRs installed in about 2 hours.

Only issue I see is a line through the middle of the screen on ESPN, but no other HD channels have the issue, so I'm not sure how to resolve that one....

It was an ESPN problem and seems to have been fixed....

[kmattoo]

Yeah, it was, so all is good! Thanks for all the help!