War protests

[firephoto]

Anyone watching any of the news broadcasts of the protests around the country?

Seems it's more of a President Bush protest than a war protest. I get the impression that it doesn't matter what he would be doing that they would still be protesting it.

Comments were made that all the troops should come home and be given jobs in this country, made into teachers, etc. Some said that they should take the money wasted on the war and use it in this country for various things.

The NYPD's recourses seem to be not enough to deal with the protests at this time. Money wasted in my opinion. There are protesters running through the streets stopping traffic, disrupting businesses, trying to do what was done in San Francisco yesterday.

Pretty sad to see so many people not behind the men and women protecting this country.

[James_F]

Where do you see that? They want to bring them home and not have them die in an area of the world that doesn't want us there. Being against Dubbya and the war is not the same as being against the troops. I hate this war, think the president is a putz, but support our troops.

Anyway the "reason" they are over there (other than oil) is fighting for freedom. The same freedom that gives us the right to question our leaders. You are advocating exactly what Iraq is asking of their citizens. They are all very afraid of us because the Iraqi leadership is telling them they have no choice but to support their troops.

It looks like democracy is dying in this country and being replace by a police state where you can't question the president without being call unamerican. :nono:

[Bill R]

Originally posted by firephoto
Pretty sad to see so many people not behind the men and women protecting this country.
Amen.

[waydwolf]

Am I taking crazy pills or something? Does anyone ever watch The History Channel? Did everyone sleep right through the last century?

I recall people having said similar things even as Adolph Hitler's troops were busy building their newest vengeance weapon aimed across the channel at England and we'd not yet joined the fray. "It's not our business. Let the Europeans go their own way. Besides, we'll only get ourselves badly beaten if we go up against the Nazis. We should appease them and let them have England."

It is something almost unique to America, though spreading worldwide fast, the nonsensical notion of absolute enmity towards ones own nation. It is found among poor, middle class, and filthy stinking rich. We see Hollywood actors, Detroit rappers, and New York tenement people saying incredibly stupid things about America, the American military, and the American way as if we weren't a democratic republic and didn't have a constitution behind which they instantly hide when you call them out.

In fact, I see a hostility to democracy every day amongst these cretins. A hostility born of childish anger that the vote didn't go their way. You don't see conservatives advocating cloying political correctness and social pressure to silence as a way of overcoming the popular vote not going their way, the politicians not doing everything they want. You do see the lefties practicing it.

No, democracy is only embraced cynically by the left, when it goes their way. If not, then we have to have some sort of statist system to make it work the way they want. The entire history of the USSR was about making the unworkable work by force instead of the ultimate democracy, human choice.

Ain't it ironic that all these lefties talking of human rights don't care that Saddam's bloody slimy regime has denied those same rights to the Iraqi people? Ain't it ironic that they didn't care that the Taliban of Afghanistan treated women as expendable and subject to superstitious torture and even killing when they are constantly going on about womens' rights?

In my book, anyone for appeasement of Hussein and against his removal are in the same camp as those who cozied up to Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler, Nicolai Ceasescu, and all the other despots of the last hundred years and they most fully deserve to suffer the pains of their innocent victims.

I have the very bad suspicion that the lefties in the press and politics here in the US will do everything they can to stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes tight, and hum nonsense to keep from hearing Iraqi survivors thank the US for removing that murderer, and recounting all the attrocities he, his sons, and their cronies have engaged in.

If we allow that mountain of dead to go unanswered, and covered up by willfully ignoring it, then we will have screwed the Iraqi people. What's been done should be documented and put on The History Channel alongside programs about The Holocaust, and the attrocities in Bosnia, Romania, etc.

[firephoto]

The things we are doing in Iraq are so terrible that some of the EPW's (pow) are smiling and kidding with their friends as they get escorted to a truck for transport to detainment. Not only are they treated that terrible, but some Iraqis are even being told to go home after they have been disarmed! How dare we treat these people like this. It's just wrong.

[Jack White]

Originally posted by firephoto
Anyone watching any of the news broadcasts of the protests around the country?

Seems it's more of a President Bush protest than a war protest. I get the impression that it doesn't matter what he would be doing that they would still be protesting it.

Comments were made that all the troops should come home and be given jobs in this country, made into teachers, etc. Some said that they should take the money wasted on the war and use it in this country for various things.

The NYPD's recourses seem to be not enough to deal with the protests at this time. Money wasted in my opinion. There are protesters running through the streets stopping traffic, disrupting businesses, trying to do what was done in San Francisco yesterday.

Pretty sad to see so many people not behind the men and women protecting this country.

Protesters are TRUE HEROES.
They're fighting for democracy even though democracy was stolen from the people when Gore CLEARLY won by winning Florida.
Protesters have EVERY RIGHT and a moral duty in their opinion to express their ideas. People who try and shut them up and try to stop them from praticing their democratic rights are just trying to get rid of democracy.
Democracy means the people with opposing points of view have a right to try and get their voices heard.
THE WHOLE WORLD is against this war.
The WHOLE WORLD considers it a war for oil, imperialism, and to scare the bejesus out of the moslem/arab world so they'll all fall in line and take orders like they're supposed to.
The UN is a democracy, it is where representatives of the world get to make the voices of the people of the world heard.
France, Germany, Russia, and China and the other countries on the security council did an exceptional job in speaking for the 6 BILLION people of the world who are TOTALLY AGAINST this war.
Protesters are HEROES and the WHOLE WORLD knows if even if 200 million right wing warmongers don't know it.
Protesters know that the whole world loves them so they could care less that right wing warmongers hate them.

[firephoto]

OMG
I shouldn't have deleted my last sentence from my last reply before posting it. This is what I didn't post last time.

Do you question the motives of someone protesting the war when they state that that the president was elected illegally?

[Richard King]

Anyway the "reason" they are over there (other than oil) is fighting for freedom. The same freedom that gives us the right to question our leaders.What am I missing here? Please tell me what rioting in the streets, tying up traffic, disturbing the peace, damaging businesses, and being a general nuisance, etc. have to do with questioning our leaders. These people are NOT protesting the war, they are in general a highly organized group of anarchists (assuming anarchists can get organized :)), communists, anti-capitalists and anti-Americans with a few regular folks thrown in just for the fun of it. The war is simply an excuse. Change the cause to any number of other subjects and the same crowd will show up. The group in New York was most likely made up of many of the same people who were in the group in San Francisco.

[James_F]

Where is there riots?

You people make me sick. Many people have died to protect the right to protest what some feel is an unjust war. To say the people should keep their mouths shut is just wrong and so unamerican. :nono:

[Bill R]

Well said Richard. One of my neighbors calls them "professional protestors". They are against anything that does not agree with their narrow minded thinking. In my area (Cincinnati) we see the same croud in just about every protest march. Last year they were protesting police brutility (which didn't happen), this year its the Iraqi war, next year it will be some other "cause".

[James_F]

Please,

Why drop that someone served in the Gulf War? Some of us are veterens too and you don't seem to care what we think. :rolleyes:

[firephoto]

I never said "people should keep their mouths shut". I pointed out some of the behavior of the protesters. Is it necessary to disrupt business, block traffic, attack businesses, burn the flag, or cause disruption of any sort to someone else while protesting?

What about other countries? They have destroyed businesses, burned fire trucks, injured police officers, and in general just started huge violent riots.

The (organized) "support the troops" people haven't caused this same disruption.

[James_F]

Who cares about other countries? They don't have the level of Democracy that we do. That is why this is the greatest country in the world. Yes there will always be those idiots who won't support the troops, burn the flag and destroy buildings. We have to put up with them. But those protests in San Fran, NYC, Washington, Chicago and Atlanta while snarling traffic, did so with permits. A parade permit allows them to walk down the street.

[firephoto]

Does Iraq not deserve to live under freedom and peace?

[James_F]

Do you think they will live under freedom and peace because of this war?

[Halfsek]

Look, protesting is fine and a good thing to do... but barfing and crapping on sidewalks isn't.

Chaining yourself across the street that so no cars- not even emergency vehicles, can get by is absolutely wrong.

If you look at all the protest signs, they consist of :

Bush= Hitler
End the racist Zionist occupation
Free Mumia

That's it. There's no:

Saddam- destroy your weapons
Iraq- free your people

Whoever said it above is absoutely correct- these are anti- Bush and anti America protests.

Which is perfectly fine.

Just don't lie about your true agenda.

But please, gather on the sidewalks, parks or anywhere you want. Hold up signs; scream and shout! That is peaceful protest. Not the disgusting vile that's going on now.

[Jack White]

Originally posted by firephoto
OMG
I shouldn't have deleted my last sentence from my last reply before posting it. This is what I didn't post last time.

Do you question the motives of someone protesting the war when they state that that the president was elected illegally?

I can't speak for other people, but I would be just as much against this war if Gore was the guy incharge.
People always say that anti-war people have a double standard because of Serbia.
I TOTALLY disagree.
A lot of the anti-war people are not really anti-war, they're just against THIS WAR.
People forget about people giving it to Clinton for bombing Iraq, Sudan, etc.
People forget when anti-war people blasted Clinton for it.
Look at the Beastie Boy's speech against Clinton's actions during the MTV Awards for example.
I myself would be pro-war depending on the situation.
I just DON'T buy at all that Iraq would have ever dared to use WMDs against the US.
Iraq doesn't have any ICBMs, Aircraft Carriers, submarine launched ballistic missiles, long range bombers, long range cruise missiles, or ANY OTHER way of delivering WMDs to the US and Iraq will NOT HAVE had any of those things in Saddam's lifetime.
I DON'T buy that Iraq would have given WMDs to terrorists since Iraq knows that it would be nuked off the face of the earth if it did.
Iraq did NOT use WMDs against Israel or the US in the Gulf War because Iraq is a DETERABLE AND CONTAINABLE COUNTRY.
Iraq has ONLY used WMDs against NON-NUCLEAR/weak enemies.
Do I believe that Iraq can use WMDs against weak people again?
YES, it's possible that Iraq would have used WMDs against a weaker eneny.
Do I think that Iraq would have used WMDs against The US or Israel?
Iraq would not have used WMDs against the US or Israel in a BILLION YEARS in my opinion.
Iraq has not used WMDs in 16 years and had been contained and detered since the Gulf War.
I say if Iraq's building nuclear weapons, then just BOMB Iraq's nuclear facilites every once in a while and they'll NEVER have nuclear weapons.
That's ALL you need to do to make sure that Iraq is not a threat to the US or Israel.
Iraq can't fight its way out of a paper bag and it can't possibly have threatened Israel or the US.
The things that the world thinks this war are about are OIL, Getting Rid of one of Israel's main enemeis, Revenge for Saddam's attempt to kill Bush Sr, MISPLACED revenge for 9/11(there were ZERO Iraqis on the planes, and there isn't a SINGLE SHRED of evidence to connect Iraq to 9/11), to make an example out of Iraq so the moslem/arab world falls in line and takes orders like it's told, to test out new weapons systems in a real war situation, and to get a foothold in the most strategically located country in the entire Middle East so that Americans being their will intimidate and scare the whole arab world.

I think that the pro war people in the US can be explained by a VERY SIMPLE thing.
In my opinion most pro war people are using FAULTY LOGIC.
I don't think that most Americans support the war because they think Iraq has WMDs, because Iraq killed Kurds, or becuse Iraq violated security council resolutions.
After all, Israel has more WMDs than anyone in the Middle East, Israel has violated more UN resolutions than anyone, and TURKEY has killed more Kurds than anyone.
The REASON I think most Americans support this war is BECAUSE Most Americans FALSELY believe that Iraq was DIRECTLY BEHIND 9/11.
I would have just LOVED to have Americans polled and asked "If it was proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that Iraq was NOT BEHIND 9/11, then do you think the US should still go to war against Iraq".
I think that the results of such a poll would be VERY interesting and show that the MEDIA is largely responsible for Americans being for this war by BRAINWASHING Americans into thinking that Iraq was behind 9/11 when there is NOT A SINGLE SHRED of EVIDENCE that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11.
.

[James_F]

Uh why would a protest against "Bush's War" have anti Saddam signs in it?

Look a parade permit allows them to walk down the street. All the major protests have that.

[firephoto]

Yes
They have survived under the rule of Saddam's regime for years, they will prosper without him.

Just the thought of being able to speak freely without fear of getting your tongue cut out can go a long way.

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by James_F
Uh why would a protest against "Bush's War" have anti Saddam signs in it?

Look a parade permit allows them to walk down the street. All the major protests have that.

Because it's supposedly an anti war protest. That's what they're telling us.

So there are two ways of stopping the war:

1) Bush not going in
2) Saddam follow all Security Council resolutions.

I have no problem with the protesters telling Bush to not go in, but if they truly were "Anti War" protesters, they'd be telling Saddam to get his act together as well.

And secondly, how is Bush like Hitler? As a Jew should I be looking over my shoulder for concentration camps started by Bush? How many millions has Bush killed?

Remember, as a result of Hitler, roughly 30,000,000 people died in WW2. Let's compare- how many millions of died as a result of Bush?

[James_F]

Originally posted by Halfsek


Because it's supposedly an anti war protest. That's what they're telling us.

So there are two ways of stopping the war:

1) Bush not going in
2) Saddam follow all Security Council resolutions.

I have no problem with the protesters telling Bush to not go in, but if they truly were "Anti War" protesters, they'd be telling Saddam to get his act together as well.

They are telling him through the UN. The UN should sanction this war. How is this any different than Turkey going in and messing with the Kurds?

And secondly, how is Bush like Hitler? As a Jew should I be looking over my shoulder for concentration camps started by Bush? How many millions has Bush killed?

Remember, as a result of Hitler, roughly 30,000,000 people died in WW2. Hmmm, how many millions of died as a result of Bush?
Wait just a minute. Where has anyone on this board (other than maybe Rage ;)) said that Bush was Hitler? Yes you'll see idiots in the streets carrying signs, but I doubt there is more than 0.5% of Americans who think that.

[Bill R]

Originally posted by James_F
You people make me sick. To say the people should keep their mouths shut is just wrong and so unamerican.

James,

I don't think you understand some of our posts. Some of us are not saying that people don't have the right to protest. We are saying that they don't have the right to disrupt our lives by blocking traffic, destroying property, and fighting with police. People have already died (in Chicago) because life squads were blocked by protesters.

I also want to mention that you anti-war people say that you still support our troops. That is not true. I can tell you as a soldier in Viet Nam there was nothing more demoralizing to us than hearing that there were protests going on in the streets of the U.S. We didn't feel that the protesters supported us and I'm sure it is the same way in this war.

[Jack White]

Originally posted by firephoto
Does Iraq not deserve to live under freedom and peace?

Do Palestinians not deserve to live in Freedom and Peace without being murdered by IDF OCCUPATION TROOPS and having more and more of their land being stolen by settlers every day?
Don't the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS(500,000 by UN estimates) of Iraq civilians who will be killed by Allied bombs and weapons deserve to LIVE?

[James_F]

This is nothing like it was in Vietnam. People at these protest all say they want the troops home. You don't see them saying that they are baby killers. I went to a protest here in Tempe, AZ and we all were wearing yellow ribbons to show support.

[firephoto]

Originally posted by James_F

Yes you'll see idiots in the streets carrying signs, but I doubt there is more than 0.5% of Americans who think that.

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock

0.5% of the population comes out to 1,452,717 (a few minutes ago).

The number will be a little less for legal citizens.

;)

[Halfsek]

My point was that many of the anti war protest signs equated Bush with Hitler. To me that seems like a big point for the anti war crowd.... not the DBS crowd. :)

As far as I can tell, the protesters aren't telling Saddam anything. In this sense he's guilty until proven innocent. The inspectors were there to prove that he had destroyed weapons. He didn't do that. The war would have been avoided if Saddam had follow the 18 or so resolutions since 1991.
But no protester ever puts any sort of responsibility on Saddam.

[James_F]

I do. I held two signs at the protest. One "Saddam Must Go" and the other "Peace is Patriotic". One American life it too much for this war.

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by Jack White


...
Don't the THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS(500,000 by UN estimates) of Iraq civilians who will be killed by Allied bombs and weapons deserve to LIVE?

Wait, is this the same UN that puts Syria at the head of the human rights commission? Or maybe it's the UN that puts Iraq at the head of the nuclear disarmament commission.

I'm confused. :shrug:

[James_F]

Originally posted by firephoto


http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock

0.5% of the population comes out to 1,452,717 (a few minutes ago).

The number will be a little less for legal citizens.

;)

About the same amount of people who think that Soccer is fun.

[James_F]

Originally posted by Halfsek


Wait, is this the same UN that puts Syria at the head of the human rights commission? Or maybe it's the UN that puts Iraq at the head of the nuclear disarmament commission.

I'm confused. :shrug:
You forgot France on the Security Council... :rolleyes:

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by James_F
I do. I held two signs at the protest. One "Saddam Must Go" and the other "Peace is Patriotic". One American life it too much for this war.

Sweet! Unfortunately your signs must have been covered by the "Impeach Adolf Bush" signs.

But I salute you. I really do. And I believe that peace is the best thing for everyone.

Imagine all the composers, scientists, teachers, inventors and more that will never be, due to the destruction that Hitler caused.

Imagine how much more advanced as a society we would be if we didn't lose all those young minds back then.

But sometimes war is the answer. And we're better off than if we did nothing. And there is a good argument saying that we're going to be better off in 50 years if Saddam is deposed now.... only if we do the right cleanup job like we did in post WW2.

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by James_F

You forgot France on the Security Council... :rolleyes:

You're pretty funny. :D

[Richard King]

About the same amount of people who think that Soccer is fun.That just shows how wrong people can be. :D

[Scott Greczkowski]

I am feeing very American Today.... I am thinking of planning a protest, to protest the protesters.

Anyone with me? :)

In all seriousness, I will admit that we are being fed what the military wants us to believe. All these live shots are actually pre scripted, many reporters have noted that the censors would pull their plug if everything was not pre-approved.

My feeling on the War Coverage is that we are NOT seeing the war on TV, instead we are seeing a made for TV version of the war.

Today they showed video of the trops attacking an Iraqi tank, they then fired on it and it blew apart in a big ball of flames, the media played it like it was some horoic action, and while it may have been they showed no emotion or care that whoever was in the tank was blwn to bits in that explosion.

As a number of iraqi's have surrendered have said, they do not want to fight in the war, but to refuse to go fight was an instant death sentance from Saddams guys. Hearing those words reminded me of why we are figghting this war, to give the Iraqi people freedom. And that my friends is a fight worth fighting for.

[Bill R]

Originally posted by James_F
This is nothing like it was in Vietnam. People at these protest all say they want the troops home. You don't see them saying that they are baby killers. I went to a protest here in Tempe, AZ and we all were wearing yellow ribbons to show support.

You can wear any color ribbon you want. It means nothing. I am betting that you are not old enough to have been around during Viet Nam so you really don't know what it was like. It 1968 they were saying to us "get out of Viet Nam". You are saying you want the troops home. Same thing, different words. Your marches and protests still say the same thing to our troops and that is "WE ARE NOT BEHIND YOU".

Thank God that this country has brave young men and women that are willing to give their lives to support your cushy way of life and your freedom to express your opinion. The people in Iraq don't have that freedom and people like you would like to keep it that way. Can't you see what a hypocrite you are?

[Mike123abc]

I see nothing wrong with the protests, as long as they are not riots. So, a few streets get blocked for a bit, traffic can move around. If they were for example burning and rioting then they should be arrested. Protests have been with us forever.

I personally think we finally did the right thing, I am upset that France blocked the security council from approving it. But, I am certainly not bothered by the war protesters.

[James_F]

Originally posted by Bill R


You can wear any color ribbon you want. It means nothing. I am betting that you are not old enough to have been around during Viet Nam so you really don't know what it was like. It 1968 they were saying to us "get out of Viet Nam". You are saying you want the troops home. Same thing, different words. Your marches and protests still say the same thing to our troops and that is WE ARE NOT BEHIND YOU.

Thank God that this country brave young men and women that are willing to give their lives to support your cushy way of life and your freedom to express your opinion. The people in Iraq don't have that freedom and people like you would like to keep it that way. Can't you see what a hypocrite you are?

Don't preach to me. I served in the Gulf War and I know about what goes on. I was there, saw things that I don't want to think about and I don't want anyone else to have to go through what I went through.

Don't even call me a hypocrite. **** YOU! I served my country and did what I was told to. I fought for the right to say that my country is doing the wrong thing.

[firephoto]

If you are opposed to this activity so much why did you volunteer to be part of it then?

[James_F]

You people don't get it. I'm not against war when its needed. We needed to fight that war. I don't see the need now.

[firephoto]

That's fair, but how would we (or anyone) rid the Iraqi people of Saddam? We told him to leave and he wouldn't. His people couldn't speak out against him for fear of being hurt or killed.

[Bill R]

Originally posted by James_F
Don't even call me a hypocrite. **** YOU! I fought for the right to say that my country is doing the wrong thing.

Yes, you have the right to say what you want but you are sill a hypocrite. You don't want Iraqis to enjoy the freedoms that you enjoy everyday. You say you are for freedom but not for oppressed people. If that is not hypocrisy I don't know what is (and just about all the anti-war people that I know are the same way so you fit in well with their illogical ramblings).

[Scott Greczkowski]

Scott Grabs a fire hose and squirts James with COLD water

Easy there big guy, your gonna blow a gasket. :)

My feeling on this is that an opinion is like a rear end, everyone has one. We can all agree that we will all never have the same opinion.

And you know what? Thats what makes this a great country, we can share our opinions, in other countries going againt the correct opinion could get you killed. Which is exactly one of the reasons they are fighting this war.

I will agree that perhaps we are being a little to hard against Iraq, but because of the high goals set (which in my OPINION) were set way to high and broad. This war could go on for years because of the way the goals were mentioned. But, we are already dug in now, we can't just pull out, and so we go forward.

I ask everyone to keep their argements friendly, after all we are all in this together.

[James_F]

Well Bill at least you prove that you are not very smart. You obviously have not learned anything over the last few years and prove everytime you post that you are a fool. You prove that you would rather live in a world where everyone did what YOU think is right rather than a free world where everyone can think on their own. I was mistaken in thinking you had any clue about the real word, but I see my error.

[Halfsek]

Protesting the protesters?

http://idisk.mac.com/kfiralfia/Public/protest_warrior/images/protest_gallery/us/images/0037.jpg

http://idisk.mac.com/kfiralfia/Public/protest_warrior/images/protest_gallery/us/images/0025.jpg

http://idisk.mac.com/kfiralfia/Public/protest_warrior/images/protest_gallery/us/images/0024.jpg

[James_F]

http://www.gospacewaitress.com/images/kapow.jpg

[Bill R]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
This war could go on for years because of the way the goals were mentioned. But, we are already dug in now, we can't just pull out, and so we go forward.


And that, I feel, is the crux of the situation. Our leaders have decided that it was time to go to war. Many people do not agree with that (I didn't agree with war a month ago) but now that we are at war the protesters are not going to stop the war. All they are doing is dividing the country and demoralizing the troops.

I keep seeing all these people like James and Rage protesting our actions in Iraq but I don't see them offering a solution (and I can't understand why they don't want the Iraqis to have freedom). Pulling our troops out is not going to give freedom to the Iraq people.

[Scott Greczkowski]

I keep seeing all these people like James and Rage protesting our actions in Iraq but I don't see them offering a solution (and I can't understand why they don't want the Iraqis to have freedom). Pulling our troops out is not going to give freedom to the Iraq people.

Well said Bill, bravo!

[Halfsek]

That's another thing, when is the old tired blathering of Bush being stupid going to stop?

Has he really done anything prove that he's intellectually dim? Sheesh, he has put together a pretty big coalition together (bigger than 1991) for this Iraq thing; even while facing much bigger opposition.

With him at the helm, his party has taken over the government (gasp!).

The problem with anti Bush people is that they underestimate him. They keep calling him stupid and slow, and he still get's everything he wants done.

A leader who is as successful as Bush has been this term (and more so once he gets his tax cuts passed) is probably a little brighter than people give credit to Bush for.

[James_F]

You don't read anything I say. At no point do I say keep Saddam in there. I want the UN to take care of this. Nor do I think our troops are not needed in the region. A unilateral war on our part is bad news.

Because you can't read, I'll put my points in a easy format for you.

1. I support removing Saddam from power in Iraq.
2. I support our troops even though I think putting them in there is a mistake.
3. I support weapons inspections.

Easy enough. :bang

[James_F]

Originally posted by Halfsek
A leader who is as successful as Bush has been this term (and more so once he gets his tax cuts passed) is probably a little brighter than people give credit to Bush for.

OK, how do you pay for this war without a tax increase? I'm talking real numbers here, not voodoo economics.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by Bill R
I keep seeing all these people like James and Rage protesting our actions in Iraq but I don't see them offering a solution

I don't think James and Rage belong in the same sentence...

[Halfsek]

How is the UN going to do anything? The US funds the UN. The UN doesn't have a standing army capable of ousting Saddam.
If a UN force would go in, it would be composed of American troops.

Inspections? We gave Iraq 12 years.

Unilateral? When did ~45 countries equal unilateral? Plus more countries that don't want it to become public.

As for taxes, this isn't the forum for it. I just plopped that in as an example of how successful Bush has been this term. And how he'll most probably get his tax cuts passed.

You may not like the success of Bush, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I didn't like the success of Clinton always having high approval ratings... but somehow he managed to do it.

[James_F]

Originally posted by gcutler


I don't think James and Rage belong in the same sentence...

Thanks... I felt so dirty....

[Bill R]

Originally posted by James_F
Well Bill at least you prove that you are not very smart. You obviously have not learned anything over the last few years and prove everytime you post that you are a fool. You prove that you would rather live in a world where everyone did what YOU think is right rather than a free world where everyone can think on their own. I was mistaken in thinking you had any clue about the real word, but I see my error.

James,

That seems to be another universal trait of you anti-war people. If you don't agree with someone you call them a fool and other names (and say things like **** you). I never said that everyone should do what I think was right rather than live in a free world. I want a free world. You are the one that seems to not want our troops to provide freedom in Iraq. You never did directly answer why you don't want the our troops to free Iraq. If you think the UN is going to do it you are wrong. Your UN "solution" has already proved (many times) that it just won't work.

By the way, we had an anti-war protest rally in my area today (Cincinnati) and less than 100 people showed up and most of them were high school kids that don't have a clue. Anti-war is not popular around here.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by gcutler


I don't think James and Rage belong in the same sentence...

This I agree with this too!!

[James_F]

Originally posted by Bill R

I want a free world.
Then show it. Show the world that we in the US allow our citizens to protest. That is why I enlisted in the Marines, something I would die for.

[firephoto]

NYC protests
47 arrests
11 police officers injured, one hit in the head with a rock and some pepper sprayed by protesters.
Their permit expired at 3:30 and they are still their but the police said they don't want to stir them up any more and letting them be for now.

[James_F]

Now I agree with you these people were totally out of line. I don't support people who hurt or put our police and firemen in danger.

[Bill R]

James,

Where did I say that the anti-war people should not be allowed to protest? I didn't. You seem to be so full of rage (there is that word again) that you are incorrectly reading the posts.

By the way, I was in the Air Force but at one time I trained Marines to fix aircraft navigation equipment and worked with them a lot. I have all the repect in the world for people that served in the corps.

[Richard King]

I want the UN to take care of this:lol: Now THAT'S funny. As long as countries such as France and Germany who have been violating sanctions by doing business with Iraq for years have a veto power the UN is totally powerless to do anything. Jeesh. How long does it take you to realize this?

[firephoto]

Those NYC numbers have almost doubled or so in the last hour.
Over 80 arrests now.

[James_F]

Originally posted by Bill R
I have all the repect in the world for people that served in the core.
Well than how about showing me some. :rolleyes:

Member 3rd Marine Air Wing and Gulf War Vet (http://www.miramar.usmc.mil/newmiramar/3dmaw/3dmaw.html) - MAG 39 - MALS 39

[Richard King]

Now I agree with you these people were totally out of line. I don't support people who hurt or put our police and firemen in danger.That's the problem with putting your faith in with these professional organizers and taking part in their "demonstrations". The organizers use such tactics as standard operating procedure. They are people filled with hate for America and capitalism.

[James_F]

People are filled with hate all around the world for us. I'd rather see this than have people not able to voice their opinions.

[Mike123abc]

The real test will be 20 years from now if we have more that hate us than we do now. Pretty much it would be hard to generate more hate for us in the Middle East than there already is. Just have to hope that the Iraqi people do not turn against us, but instead view us as liberators and become a pocket of allies instead of a hot bed of enemies.

[Richard King]

I'd rather see this than have people not able to voice their opinions.Ditto, but being able to voice your opinions comes with a responsibility, part of which is to obey the laws of the land. If they are assaulting police officers, assaulting other people, rioting, damaging private property, disturbing the peace, etc. they should be thrown in jail for longer term than overnight.

[James_F]

That I agree with you on Richard...

[Richard King]

I had a feeling you would. Now, here's the problem.... If they threw the people in jail who do this kind of thing, a good portion of the leadership of the groups organizing these "demonstrations" would be in jail, thereby eliminated the effectiveness of the "demonstrations", which would be fine with me.

[James_F]

Yea you wish.... :lol:

[Richard King]

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r

A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."

This is the guy these demonstrators wish to keep in power as a result of their activities. Maybe they should all get a free trip over there (and back) to see reality.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by Bill R
James,

By the way, I was in the Air Force but at one time I trained Marines to fix aircraft navigation equipment and worked with them a lot. I have all the repect in the world for people that served in the core.

As an Air Force veteran (like myself), you have to know that it is the CORPS, not the core! That'll make a Marine bristle.

Like James, I tried to post a link to my former active duty Air Force organization, 56th Tactical Fighter Wing, Luke AFB, Arizona, but I got an "access denied." Oh well. Just wanted to brag a little.

I personally don't care if people protest, just keep it civil. Nobody should get hurt or the anti-violence argument goes out the window. I also believe these guys need to respect the flag by not burning it or flying it upside down. That really bothers me.

I know literally hundreds of soldiers in the region from my state National Guard, many of whom are assigned to the 3rd Infantry Division. I wish them godspeed and safety.

[Richard King]

I personally don't care if people protest, just keep it civil. Nobody should get hurt or the anti-violence argument goes out the window. I also believe these guys need to respect the flag by not burning it or flying it upside down. That really bothers me.There is some hope for you after all. :lol:

[Jack White]

Originally posted by Rking401
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r

A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head."

This is the guy these demonstrators wish to keep in power as a result of their activities. Maybe they should all get a free trip over there (and back) to see reality.

It's all just PROPOGANDA as far as I'm concerned.
I just DON'T buy that the average Iraqi civilian will view Americans as LIBERATORS.
There will be a small minority of Iraqis who will.
If the Soviet Union had invaded and taken over the US, there would have been thousands if not hundreds of thousands or perhaps even several million people who would have viewed the Soviet Union as liberators, that does NOT mean that the AVERAGE AMERICAN would have viewed the Soviet Union as liberators, the average American would have viewed the Soviet Union as CONQUERERS, INVADERS, and OCCUPIERS.
You will see EDITED video of some Iraqis celebrating(a view that represents a VERY SMALL minority of Iraqis I'm sure), but you won't see video of the thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, video of all the Iraqi civilians crying and begging the US to stop the war, video of DEAD Iraqi soldiers with the WHITE FLAG still in their hand even after death, etc, etc.
I don't buy that the arab world who loves Iraqi Civilians FAR more than any Right Wing Republicans are saying what's bad for the Iraqi civilians.
I believe they're saying what's BEST for the Iraqi civilians because they love Iraqi Civilians and some of these right wing pro war people say stuff like "the only good sand&^%%$# is a dead sand&^%%$#".
All this BULL about Iraqi civlians thinking of Americans as liberators is NOTHING BUT PROPOGANDA and psycological warfare.
NOBODY in the world believes this BULL for one second.
6 BILLION people KNOW for a fact that this is about OIL.
Anyone who thinks that this isn't about oil looks STUPIDER than even people who say Mossad was behind 9/11.
It's a conspiracy theory that this ISN'T about oil.
It's the NORM in THE WHOLE WORLD 6 BILLION PLUS people that THIS IS ABOUT OIL.
Even 87% of the people in the UK think this is about oil.

[firephoto]

Hey Jack,
Like all your statistics you posted can be backed up with proof.

So the reporters going through the desert and telling how herders and farmers are waving at them are lies? The Iraqis in this country that say they will move back once Saddam is gone is a lie?
The fact that no bombs have landed on innocent civillian's houses in Baghdad is a lie?
The pictures on Iraqi TV of people going to the market today buying food is a lie?
The cameras showing how the lights in Baghdad stay on while bombs and missiles impact their targets is a lie?

And about the oil thing. So what if it is about oil. They have lots of oil, and we have lots of food and goods and services we can give them for it. Is that a crime to trade goods and services so they can build a modern country?

[James_F]

Originally posted by karl_f
Like James, I tried to post a link to my former active duty Air Force organization, 56th Tactical Fighter Wing, Luke AFB, Arizona, but I got an "access denied." Oh well. Just wanted to brag a little.
Small world... I trained at Yuma and shared the BMGR with ya! Anyway I work as a Military Planner working with the Navy and Air Force on Training Ranges along the west coast and Pacific region. (NAS Fallon, NAS Lemoore, NAS Whidbey Island, MCAS 29 Palms, MCAS Camp Pendleton, MCAS Miramar, NBVC Point Mugu, NAF El Centro, NAS North Island, China Lake, Edwards AFB, Luke AFB, MCAS Yuma, Nellis AFB, among others)

[Richard King]

If the Soviet Union had invaded and taken over the US, there would have been thousands if not hundreds of thousands or perhaps even several million people who would have viewed the Soviet Union as liberators,You are even more of a nut case than Roger. I really didn't think that was possible. Roger, I apologize for everything I have said and thought about you in the past.

6 BILLION people KNOW for a fact that this is about OILNone of the previous wackos I have asked in the past have been able to answer this, let's see what you have to say.... If this is all about oil, why did we not keep the oilfields and move in on Iraq 12 years ago?

[Jack White]

Originally posted by firephoto
Hey Jack,
Like all your statistics you posted can be backed up with proof.

So the reporters going through the desert and telling how herders and farmers are waving at them are lies? The Iraqis in this country that say they will move back once Saddam is gone is a lie?
The fact that no bombs have landed on innocent civillian's houses in Baghdad is a lie?
The pictures on Iraqi TV of people going to the market today buying food is a lie?
The cameras showing how the lights in Baghdad stay on while bombs and missiles impact their targets is a lie?

And about the oil thing. So what if it is about oil. They have lots of oil, and we have lots of food and goods and services we can give them for it. Is that a crime to trade goods and services so they can build a modern country?

You just DON'T comprehend the power of the media do you.
You think it's just a stroke of luck that the level of Anti-Palestinianism in the US is over 80%(it was the same WELL BEFORE 9/11) and in NO OTHER COUNTRY(out of the hundres of countries in the world) besides the US or Israel is it rated at more than 30%, NOT EVEN in the UK?
Do you actually think that the media has nothing to do with that?
I at least KNOW when I'm watching propoganda.
I watch all kinds of news including Israeli, Arab, Japanese, Korean, German, British, etc, etc and I know when I'm watching news from Lebanon translated into english for example that it's PURE PROGANDA.
People don't even know that Fox News Channel is nothing but propaganda, they actually believe that it's fair and balanced and has journalistic integrity becuase they say so.
Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, CBS News, NBC News, PBS, Time, Newsweek, News Radio, The New York Times, it's ALL JUST one thing.
You HAVE to view international sources if you want BALANCED news coverage. You just get the EXACT same point of view from all the the Mainstream American Media.
Things like TV Japan, World Link TV, BBC America, Freespeech tv, COLOURS, etc are GREAT ASSETS that eveyone who owns a satellite dish should use.
They enable you to get a more balanced perspective on world news.
I watch Fox News Channel and other mainstream American media, but I watch other stuff too so I can get more balanced news coverage with MANY different points of view.
In the American Mainstream Media you're FOOLED into thinking you're getting many different points of view, but you're really just getting one point of view.

[Jack White]

Originally posted by Rking401
You are even more of a nut case than Roger. I really didn't think that was possible. Roger, I apologize for everything I have said and thought about you in the past.

None of the previous wackos I have asked in the past have been able to answer this, let's see what you have to say.... If this is all about oil, why did we not keep the oilfields and move in on Iraq 12 years ago?

There's a very simple answer.
The US didn't need oil so bad then as it does now, and things are so bad now that many people even want to drill in the Arctic Refuge in Alaska.
The other reason was because everyone thought that Saddam would be overthrown within months after then Gulf War and an American Puppet could then be installed into powere that would give incredibly cheap oil to the US.

[Richard King]

Freespeech tv:lol:

[Richard King]

The US didn't need oil so bad then as it does now,:lol:

[Richard King]

and things are so bad now that many people even want to drill in the Arctic Refuge in Alaska.The same battles over Arctic drilling were going on back then.

The other reason was because everyone thought that Saddam would be overthrown within months after then Gulf War and an American Puppet could then be installed into powere that would give incredibly cheap oil to the US.If we wanted that to happen so much back then it would have happened.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by James_F

Small world... I trained at Yuma and shared the BMGR with ya! Anyway I work as a Military Planner working with the Navy and Air Force on Training Ranges along the west coast and Pacific region. (NAS Fallon, NAS Lemoore, NAS Whidbey Island, MCAS 29 Palms, MCAS Camp Pendleton, MCAS Miramar, NBVC Point Mugu, NAF El Centro, NAS North Island, China Lake, Edwards AFB, Luke AFB, MCAS Yuma, Nellis AFB, among others)

...off topic post...

James, totally off subject, but I loved being stationed in Arizona. My wife was able to graduate from ASU (west campus) while we were there. When I was there, 1987-1990, Luke had a wing of F-16s and a wing of F-15s (now they just have F-16s). I worked as a weapons systems specialist on the F-16s. I look back very fondly on my active duty experiences and I really loved Arizona. If they would have kept me there for my career, I never would have left the Air Force. After my enlistment was up, though, my wife and I decided it was time to move back home to Utah. The rest, as they say, is history.

I also parlayed my previous military experience into a civilian job, I work for the Army National Guard now both full-time and as a part-time traditional guardsman (I despise the term weekend warrior). I manage the mail systems, copiers, printing, and publishing for all of our units and armories. It has nothing to do with weapons systems, but the experience as an active duty airman helped in getting me hired.

Do you work with the Hill AFB range here in Utah as well?

...Back to your regularly scheduled debate about war protests....

[Bogy]

Originally posted by Rking401
This is the guy these demonstrators wish to keep in power as a result of their activities. Maybe they should all get a free trip over there (and back) to see reality.
Just how many protesters are supporting keeping Saddam in power? James certainly isn't supporting Saddam. I don't support Saddam. Belief that there was a better way to do this is not the same as wanting to keep Saddam in power.
What many of us were warning against is now happening. We warned that a unilateral war would be a mistake. Sure, now there are about 45 "supporters" of the war, but this has been a very last minute, half-hearted effort. If anything, we owe about 43 nations who felt this was a mistake, but are willing to support us in this mistake a debt of gratitude. This was not a true coalition effort such as the 1991 war. How many Arab nations are part of the coalition this time around? How many Muslim nations? What was the stated purpose of this war? To make us safe from terrorists. What was the fear that many of us who did not support President Bush in this war hold? That this unilateral insistence of a war when there was no concrete evidence of a terrorist link would instead plant the seeds for a whole new crop of terrorists. What is happening now? While our military rolls toward Baghdad Al Quiada is using pictures of attacks on a Muslim nation and citizens as their latest recruiting tool. Just how has this endeavor crippled terrorism?
Once again, Saddam is evil. There is no question or disputation of this fact. But there are still many of us who don't think this war will solve the problems it ostensibly was supposed to. If anything, this war has made the problem worse, because instead of enlisting all civilized nations of the world in working together to solve the problem of terrorism, we now have to deal with many nations who are angry with us for our arrogance. Nations who many of us believe are more sensitive to the instability this action will bring to this part of the world.
No one is blaming our troops for doing what they have been trained to do, but many of us question the wisdom of our leaders in the path they have chosen. It may be to late to stop this war, but the protesters are just getting ready for the next war with the evil axis.

[Bill R]

Originally posted by James_F

I work as a Military Planner working with the Navy and Air Force on Training Ranges along the west coast and Pacific region.

Given James' posts here does anyone else find it hard to believe James has a a job associated with the military? James has been such a vocal opponent of the war I would think a job like that conflicts greatly with his personal beliefs.

[James_F]

Bill,

You just keep making yourself look like an idiot. :rolleyes:

Again you fail to read what I wrote and I won't keep writing it since your brain can't hold more than that ignorant filth you keep spewing. Read me posts and you'll understand my points. You keep showing you are not paying any attention to anything. How about adding something useful to the conversation.

[James_F]

Originally posted by karl_f
Do you work with the Hill AFB range here in Utah as well?

Not really. I work with the Navy on their ranges so my relationship with the Air Force is just when they need to use the training ranges. We don't work with them for planning training ranges on any range other than the Barry M. Goldwater Range. R-2508 (China Lake) is used by both Edwards and the Navy (NAS Lemoore) and we work closely with them. So I guess to answer your question, Luke AFB and Edwards AFB are really the only two we have a relationship with.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Bill R
Pulling our troops out is not going to give freedom to the Iraq people.

There is something really strange here though. When the President originally mentioned that we were going after Iraq, it seemed as though we we were going after Saddam for his supposed involvement in 9-11 (of which we have no proof). Then we began hearing about the supposed weapons of mass destruction that Saddam had.

Fine and good, the UN sent in weapons inspectors. They found nothing. Well okay, well they found some Al Samoud missiles that were 50 miles outside the prescribed range. Those were then destroyed. But President Bush is still chanting that Saddam must go now, and that he has weapons of mass destruction (even though Iraq has been under sanctions since the first Gulf War).

Suddenly we hear that the US is going it alone. Screw the UN. Still we don't have a reason with valid evidence as to why we need this war. The war looms closer, we now begin hearing that the Iraqi people suddenly need freedom, and we have to go in now and liberate them. So again, the tune has changed.

I just don't get it. What's the real reason for this war again? Someone please remind me. The Government, the President and the media keep changing the reason.

Here's some flash:
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/corrections.swf

Peace.

[James_F]

Well maybe this is the start of a new role for the US. Protect the world from tyrants.

So we'll now be going to Congo, Rwanda, Burma, Central African Republic, and others to save people from repressive governments.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by Bogy

Just how many protesters are supporting keeping Saddam in power? James certainly isn't supporting Saddam. I don't support Saddam. Belief that there was a better way to do this is not the same as wanting to keep Saddam in power.
What many of us were warning against is now happening. We warned that a unilateral war would be a mistake. Sure, now there are about 45 "supporters" of the war, but this has been a very last minute, half-hearted effort. If anything, we owe about 43 nations who felt this was a mistake, but are willing to support us in this mistake a debt of gratitude. This was not a true coalition effort such as the 1991 war. How many Arab nations are part of the coalition this time around? How many Muslim nations? What was the stated purpose of this war? To make us safe from terrorists. What was the fear that many of us who did not support President Bush in this war hold? That this unilateral insistence of a war when there was no concrete evidence of a terrorist link would instead plant the seeds for a whole new crop of terrorists. What is happening now? While our military rolls toward Baghdad Al Quiada is using pictures of attacks on a Muslim nation and citizens as their latest recruiting tool. Just how has this endeavor crippled terrorism?
Once again, Saddam is evil. There is no question or disputation of this fact. But there are still many of us who don't think this war will solve the problems it ostensibly was supposed to. If anything, this war has made the problem worse, because instead of enlisting all civilized nations of the world in working together to solve the problem of terrorism, we now have to deal with many nations who are angry with us for our arrogance. Nations who many of us believe are more sensitive to the instability this action will bring to this part of the world.

No one is blaming our troops for doing what they have been trained to do, but many of us question the wisdom of our leaders in the path they have chosen. It may be to late to stop this war, but the protesters are just getting ready for the next war with the evil axis.

I disagree but at least you are one of the few of the anti-war posters who have not come across as Anti- American and have reasonable argument's to back upp your point of view. However I do believe the US is doing the wright thing here and sometimes a leader has to do the wright thing weather its popular in the rest of the World or not. Unfortunately it has become necessary for us to take out possibly the worst tyrant since Hitler. If we would have waited until France and other country's came around to do what was necessary to disarm and remove Saddam, how many more of his own people would have to died and how many more Israeli's would have die because of his support for the radical Palestinians and how long would it have taken for him to have armed some radical Islamist group for a chemical or biological attack on the US or a Western European country.

One other point, if we had taken action sooner rather then latter, when Hitler was first coming to power before WWll, when he was building up his military in violations to the Treaty that ended WWl, was already murdering many of his own people, when people in Europe and many in this country wanted simply to appease him, how many fewer would have had to die? Just like WWll was a JUST war, this one is a JUST war as well. Just my 2-cents.

[Mike123abc]

I would say it is hard to say we are going alone. Aside from France, and to a much lesser degree Russia and Germany, most countries are supporting the action.

Name an Arab government besides obviously Iraq in vocal outcry over the war?

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
I would say it is hard to say we are going alone. Aside from France, and to a much lesser degree Russia and Germany, most countries are supporting the action.

You forgot Canada.

[Bill R]

Originally posted by James_F
You just keep making yourself look like an idiot.

Again you fail to read what I wrote and I won't keep writing it since your brain can't hold more than that ignorant filth you keep spewing. Read me posts and you'll understand my points. You keep showing you are not paying any attention to anything. How about adding something useful to the conversation.

"Ignorant filth"? What is the world are you talking about? I HAVE read all your posts in this thread and it is clear that you are against the war and that you take part in anti-war protests and you do military work (just stating the FACTS you posted). To me, and a lot of other people, it seems like a you have a real conflict of values (maybe that is why you are so hostile) working FOR the military and being so strongly AGAINST the war.

I would check with your supervisors before you partake in the next anti-war rally. I was told (by someone that works for the military) that a person could loose their security clearance for engaging in such activity.

I bet you don't tell your military friends about your anti-war activities.

[firephoto]

Is it group hug time already?

[Jack White]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
I would say it is hard to say we are going alone. Aside from France, and to a much lesser degree Russia and Germany, most countries are supporting the action.

Name an Arab government besides obviously Iraq in vocal outcry over the war?

I have to TOTALLY disagree.
There are HUNDREDS of countries who OPPOSE war without a 2nd UN resolution.
There are ONLY 3 countries that are truly fighting this war(the US, UK, and to a VERY SMALL extent Australia).
The Other countries in the Allies are just giving little things like overflight rights, medical help, help in the event wmds are used, etc.
out of ALL the countries of the world HUNDREDS of countries have publics that are against the war.
Even in the UK, 87% of the people were against this war WITHOUT a 2nd UN resolution.
According to experts opinions, the so called coalition of the willing has largely been pressured, forced, and coerced to join by ECONOMIC threats.
The Gulf War was COMPLETELY different, there were MANY DOZEN countries taking part in the action and it had the WORLD's and UN's approval.
It was a LEGAL WAR.
This current war is AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW according to most experts.
Many experts have even said that Tony Blair can technically be taken to the International Criminal Court because The UK is a member of that court and because this is an war AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW.
Almost ALL OF HUMANITY(OVER 6 BILLION PEOPLE) are against this war.
Only a VERY VERY VERY VERY TINY Right Wing minority of the world's public in Israel and the USA are for this war.
Pro War people equal Roughly 200 million, and ANTI-WAR people equal roughly 6 BILLION.

[firephoto]

Why don't you go to Australia and tell them how "VERY SMALL" their part in the war is.

Back up your humanity/antiwar statement with real numbers with proof.

[Jack White]

Originally posted by firephoto
Why don't you go to Australia and tell them how "VERY SMALL" their part in the war is.

Back up your humanity/antiwar statement with real numbers with proof.

I hate to be the one to tell you, but ALMOST EVERYONE in Australia is AGAINST THE WAR.
If I go to Australia and tell people how small their part in the war is, they'll probably say "It's better than nothing that our part is a small part, but I wish were were not in this war AT ALL".
ALL of HUMANITY is with anti-war people and that makes all the people of the world UNITED.
Why don't you go to Australia with a big American Flag and with Pro War Signs?
If you do that, you won't enjoy your stay in Australia too much

:lol:

[firephoto]

Since I am part of "humanity", your post above is untrue.

I can't believe they gave you internet access in your bomb shelter. :(

[gcutler]

Originally posted by firephoto
Since I am part of "humanity", your post above is untrue.

I can't believe they gave you internet access in your bomb shelter. :(

And don't forget Internet access from his bomb shelter means Capitalizing a sentence to make it sound more dramatic makes it more true than a regular sentence ;)

[Bogy]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
I would say it is hard to say we are going alone. Aside from France, and to a much lesser degree Russia and Germany, most countries are supporting the action.

Name an Arab government besides obviously Iraq in vocal outcry over the war?
Like I said, we should be thankful that many nations are supporting it after we proclaimed we didn't need anyone else's ok to invade any nation we wanted. In particular, I think the Netherlands has in particular shown they have an understanding of how nations need to work in cooperation that the U.S. and George Bush don't have a clue on, considering that we have already declared war on them. (In case you missed it, if any U.S. citizen is brought to The Hague on war crimes charges the U.S. Congress has given the President the authority to "do whatever necessary." They view this as a pre-emptive declaration of war, and my neighbor who works in "the hole" at STRATCOM agrees that this is the reality. He has evidently seen the plans.) Even after all we have done to spit in the face of other nations, they still support us.

While other Arab governments have not been vocal in their opposition to the war (at least not on our media), they have also not been willing participants. Outside of Kuwait what other Muslim nations are we using to stage from? Much different than the support we received 12 years ago.

[firephoto]

What's 12 years ago have to do with this?
In the past 12 years there's new leaders around the world, different countries, new countries, a new look on domestic security in this country, and many other things that are different. There's very little that is the same as 12 years ago.

[Richard King]

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/World/iraq_poll030324.html

At the same time, the rallies repel more people than they attract: While seven percent say the demonstrations have made them more apt to oppose the war, more, 20 percent, say the opposite — that the anti-war demonstrations have made them more likely to support the war. Seven in 10 say the rallies haven't influenced their opinion.

[Richard King]

I am sure they will get a lot of support from this one.

From the San Francisco rally:

[James_F]

Always trust a man wearing a mask. :rolleyes:

[Halfsek]

Well, someone did. But he used a grenade instead.

Interesting, I wonder if they'll they'll charge him with being a traitor.

[James_F]

Don't really know. It depends on if they can really find out why he did so. Its very sad all around....

[Halfsek]

Would it really matter as to why? The act is what is being judged.

But yes, sad it is. (who am I, Yoda? :) )

[James_F]

Well it looks like the signs where there but no one did anything about it. Hindsight? Yes, but when I went to officer training part of what I was taught was how to read the "stability" of your men. In time of war its very hard to do, but it appears that he did show some scary signs of rebellion.

[Jacob S]

And if we were not having this war right now then there would be people opposing that as well, so it dont matter which way we go with this, there are always going to be people oppose and be for the war.

[Halfsek]

Hey Jack...

More people in Australia are for the war than oppose it...
<http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,6184348%255E2702,00.html>

" In the past few weeks, support for military action in Iraq has more than doubled to 50 per cent, and opposition has dropped from 75 per cent to 42 per cent.

The turnaround in sentiment is mirrored in polling for British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George W. Bush."

Pretty amazing numbers..

I think Australia is a vacation destination again.

[Jack White]

Originally posted by Halfsek
Hey Jack...

More people in Australia are for the war than oppose it...
<http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,6184348%255E2702,00.html>

" In the past few weeks, support for military action in Iraq has more than doubled to 50 per cent, and opposition has dropped from 75 per cent to 42 per cent.

The turnaround in sentiment is mirrored in polling for British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George W. Bush."

Pretty amazing numbers..

I think Australia is a vacation destination again.

Well, it's just human nature for many people to abandon their principles when their Government has commited their country to war and their friends and family are in the war.
That's why the support for war in Austarlia and The UK has increased.
If you look at countries like Qatar, Spain, Bahrain, etc(countries that don't supply troops but whose governments support the war in other ways), you'll see that almost all the people there are still opposed.
The people in Australia in principle deep down in their hearts are probably still opposed, but they'll make exceptions for their friends and family who are in the military and that's why the support for war has probably gone up.

[Jacob S]

Also seeing how the Iraqi's treat their prisoners and lied about the weapons and so forth, it proves one reason why we started fighting in the first place, and people are finally starting to realize that, and getting used to the thought of having war.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by Jack White


.
If you look at countries like Qatar, Spain, Bahrain, etc(countries that don't supply troops but whose governments support the war in other ways), you'll see that almost all the people there are still opposed.


Can you back up this comment in any way besides your own opinion? I searched all over the internet for several hours to try to find information about surveys done in Qatar and Bahrain specifically. I could find NOTHING that either agrees with or disputes your claim that the people in Qatar and Bahrain are against the war.

I gather that you are against this war, but before you speak for the rest of the world, you should provide something to back it up.

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by Jack White


Well, it's just human nature for many people to abandon their principles when their Government has commited their country to war and their friends and family are in the war.....
Funny, according to you, Australia is playing a most minimal role in this war.

Jack, you feel pretty free to speak for other people. I've seen other people do it, but you take the cake. Not only do you feel justified in speaking for the American people, you speak for the whole world. How many times have I read, "6 billion people ARE AGAINST this war"? Or whatever words you choose capitalize.

When aliens land on this planet and say, "take me to your leader", we'll lead them right to Jack White. I don't think I'm too out of line here. Just by reading your posts, you seem to know what is in the mind of every single person of this world. There's 6 billion of us, right?
According to you, they are all against the war. Not only that, but you now feel the need to insult Australians by saying that they have abandoned their principles so easily. Why don't you ask an Aussie who has changed his/her mind?

But I'm sure that you have a nice, warm feeling for those protesters in San Francisco, right? Their principles are intact. They've proven that by crapping and puking on sidewalks. They're still against this war.

Oh, wait, it's 6 billion less 3 million- the population of Jews in Israel.

Were 6 billion people against Bill Clinton's cruise missle strikes into Iraq?
Count me out of that 6 billion.

[Nick]

"Protesters know that the whole world loves them so they could care less that right wing warmongers hate them."

"Almost ALL OF HUMANITY(OVER 6 BILLION PEOPLE) are against this war.
Only a VERY VERY VERY VERY TINY Right Wing minority of the world's public in Israel and the USA are for this war.
Pro War people equal Roughly 200 million, and ANTI-WAR people equal roughly 6 BILLION."

Jack White, what are your sources? You persist in tossing out grandios numbers to support your fantasy opinions without a shred of documentation. You need to cite your "sources". Otherwise, you should preceed your outrageous and unrealistic claims with an IMO every now and then.

IMO, Jack, it is obvious to the majority here that you really don't know Jack Schitt.