1080p WILL WE NEED NEW dvr TO RECEIVE

[bbreal]

I WAS WONDERING, WILL WE NEED A NEW DVR TO RECEIVE 1080p PAY PER VIEW? I HAVE THE hr21.

bb

[hdtvfan0001]

That question has been tossed around in other threads here lately...the general consensus is that the vidro chips in the current general HD DVRs could handle 1080p, but there is no hard evidence to support the speculation itself.

[Dolly]

That question has been tossed around in other threads here lately...the general consensus is that the vidro chips in the current general HD DVRs could handle 1080p, but there is no hard evidence to support the speculation itself.
But what about the TV? My TV only goes up to 1080i.

[dave29]

then you will get it in 1080i

[phat78boy]

But what about the TV? My TV only goes up to 1080i.

You won't get any benefit from 1080P unless you have a TV that supports 1080P.

[bbreal]

That one I know, you will need 1080P TV to get the full benefit.

[hdtvfan0001]

You won't get any benefit from 1080P unless you have a TV that supports 1080P.
Correct...and there's plenty of debate as to if you could tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p anyway...but please lets not go there.

At the time the documentation was printed on the current Broadcom chipset...1080p was not mentioned...that does not necessarily mean it could not support 1080p.

[mishawaka]

do you need an HDTV to get the 1080p?

:confused:

[RobertE]

Maybe a new caps lock key, but not a new DVR. ;)

[JJJBBB]

[quote=hdtvfan0001;1736652]Correct...and there's plenty of debate as to if you could tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p anyway...but please lets not go there.

That's no fun... can't we just go there for a while. I'm tired of debating if the last HD channel coming will be the Shopping Channel or another PPV.

.:D

[66stang351]

do you need an HDTV to get the 1080p?

:confused:

:scratch:

[Jhon69]

do you need an HDTV to get the 1080p?

:confused:


A 1080p HDTV.;)

[dcowboy7]

But what about the TV? My TV only goes up to 1080i.

1080i tv ? i thought hdtvs were either 720p or 1080p.

[cartrivision]

Correct...and there's plenty of debate as to if you could tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p anyway...but please lets not go there.

At the time the documentation was printed on the current Broadcom chipset...1080p was not mentioned...that does not necessarily mean it could not support 1080p.

The documentation for the BCM7401 chip (which is in the HR21) does mention 1080p, saying that the chip supports 1080p/24 and 1080p/30.

[davring]

The documentation for the BCM7401 chip (which is in the HR21) does mention 1080p, saying that the chip supports 1080p/24 and 1080p/30.

I know the -700's have a different Broadcom chipset, will they support progressive? I'm not sure I honestly care as I'm very pleased with what they are sending us now, just curious in case I ever get the urge:)

[phat78boy]

1080i tv ? i thought hdtvs were either 720p or 1080p.

As for as actual display resolution, you are correct. Most TV's convert 1080i to whatever the TV does natively.

[greynolds]

1080i tv ? i thought hdtvs were either 720p or 1080p.
Quite a few of us who bought CRT RPTV's 5-6 years ago (and more recently than that) have sets that are 1080i.

[mcrutland]

The last time I restarted my receiver (HR21 with software version 0x263), the LED test at the beginning flashed in this order 480i---->480p---->720p---->1080i---->720p/1080i. Could the "720p/1080i" lights both being on at the same time indicate 1080p?

[cartrivision]

The last time I restarted my receiver (HR21 with software version 0x263), the LED test at the beginning flashed in this order 480i---->480p---->720p---->1080i---->720p/1080i. Could the "720p/1080i" lights both being on at the same time indicate 1080p?

That has been speculated. The HR20s also flash that sequence on bootup.

[dcowboy7]

Quite a few of us who bought CRT RPTV's 5-6 years ago (and more recently than that) have sets that are 1080i.

oh ok cause whenever i see adds now its always 720p or xxxx.

edit: 1080p.

[greynolds]

oh ok cause whenever i see adds now its always 720p or 1080i.
I assume you meant 1080p :). 720p, 1080i, and 1080p are all valid HD resolutions. Earlier HDTV's typically had a native resolution of 720p or 1080i while the newer ones are typically 720p or 1080p. IIRC, 1080i was only used on CRT displays - I'm pretty sure that LCD, Plasma, and DLP displays have always used progressive rather than interlaced modes which makes sense as they're fixed pixel display devices (with DLP being slighty funky in that regard using wobulation to double the resolution of the DLP chip). There are also some other oddball resolutions that some companies have used such as 768p where the native resolution is just a little higher than 720p, but these seem to be disappearing fast.

[Dolly]

I got my HDTV last summer and already it is out of date :(

[davring]

I got my HDTV last summer and already it is out of date :(

Not true. There are still a few 1080i sets being made, far fewer now because of price drops on LCD displays.

[hdtvfan0001]

The documentation for the BCM7401 chip (which is in the HR21) does mention 1080p, saying that the chip supports 1080p/24 and 1080p/30.
I was refering to the original documentation....it has indeed been updated, so a firmware update could do it (who knows, maybe its already there and only needs activation on the DirecTV side). :)

For those 1080i vs. 1080p debaters...chew on these 2 articles for a bit..and then lets get back to the DVR discussion again... :D

[EaglePC]

whats in 1080p lol

[hdtvfan0001]

whats in 1080p lol
Nothing in original sourced material on any broadcast channel...oh...I guess that's what you were hinting....:D

[wingrider01]

1080i tv ? i thought hdtvs were either 720p or 1080p.

No, just replaced a Samsung DLP that the highest it could do was 1080i

[hdtvfan0001]

oh ok cause whenever i see adds now its always 720p or 1080i.

Most 720p sets also support 1080i.

Thats something BB and CC sales folks rarely tell anyone, especially when they're trying to push 1080p sets that cost an average of $500 more per unit. :D

I've seen all the sales hype made to poor uninformed folks in stores...its really sad how people make those big purchases on the basis of a lack of of mis-information.

[FogCutter]

I was refering to the original documentation....it has indeed been updated, so a firmware update could do it (who knows, maybe its already there and only needs activation on the DirecTV side). :)

For those 1080i vs. 1080p debaters...chew on these 2 articles for a bit..and then lets get back to the DVR discussion again... :D

A few years ago people were making the same arguments against HDTV -- only matters on screens above (the impossibly large) 30 inches -- there isn't anything being broadcast in HD -- ect. ect..

From what I read 1080p costs less than $70 more to make on a 50 inch LCD. Probably less by now.

Personally, I'm glad 1080p is here. Very soon we won't be able to buy a TV without it. Dish already beating Direct over the head with it. Direct will probably answer sooner than later.

It's all good.

Has anyone read about QuadHD? 2160p.

[Jason Whiddon]

I hope my good ol HR20-700 supports it. If not Ill be swapping out to an HR21 or 22

[dcowboy7]

whats in 1080p lol

blu-ray.

[dcowboy7]

I hope my good ol HR20-700 supports it. If not Ill be swapping out to an HR21 or 22

but it doesnt have a 1080p light on it. :lol:

ok i know that jokes getting tired but i still like it anyway.

[rudeney]

Note that most digital HDTV’s have native resolutions of either 1366x768 or 1920x1080. There are some odd LCD’s out there with different “intermediate” resolutions, but those two are by far the most common. To say your TV does “1080i” is a misnomer unless it’s a multi-scan capable CRT. There was another thread about the fact that the digital HDMI input is almost always converted to analog inside the TV. The reason is that in most cases, it has to be re-scaled to match the screen’s native resolution. Your “1080i” TV may accept a 1080i signal, but it’s going to convert it to its native resolution of 768p. Even a 720p signal has to be converted to 768p.

[RAD]

but it doesnt have a 1080p light on it. :lol:

ok i know that jokes getting tired but i still like it anyway.

If you did the last weeks CE did you notice something different in the bootup sequence. Prior to it at one point it would cycle through all the resolution lights one at a time. Now it does 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and then has both 720p and 1080i lite at the same time. Wonder if that's how they'd indicated 1080p????

[rynberg]

Just to clarify what a few have said...there is a difference between the resolution of the display and what resolutions the display will accept.

CRT: A CRT will accept and display 1080i. A few early HD CRTs could even accept and display 720p as well.

Digital (LCD, DLP, Plasma, LCos): a digital display can only display in its native resolution. A 1080p LCD for example will only ever display a 1080p signal, no matter what the input is. Many early 1080p displays could only accept a 1080i input, and not a 1080p input. For those of you with 720p/768p displays, the display will ACCEPT a 1080i input, but will DISPLAY a 720p/768p picture.

Hopefully that clears up some misconceptions in this thread.

[Maverickster]

There are also some other oddball resolutions that some companies have used such as 768p where the native resolution is just a little higher than 720p, but these seem to be disappearing fast.

Actually, most so-called "720p TVs" are actually 768p. Panasonic's current line of 720p plasmas and the highly-revered Pioneer Kuro 5080HD and 4280HD are good examples.

I'm not saying they aren't on they're way out, but they're on their way out because so-called "720p" is on its way out (as a TV resolution, not necessarily a broadcast format).

--Mav

[Maverickster]

Quite a few of us who bought CRT RPTV's 5-6 years ago (and more recently than that) have sets that are 1080i.

There was also a plasma or two around years ago (Hitachi or Mitsubishi, maybe? I forget now) that was 1080i. Most current HDTVs, though, are progressive.

--Mav

[harsh]

There was another thread about the fact that the digital HDMI input is almost always converted to analog inside the TV.This is not true of non-CRT TVs. Keeping things in the digital domain makes scaling, motion compensation and 3:2 pull-down a whole lot easier and more predictable.The reason is that in most cases, it has to be re-scaled to match the screen’s native resolution. Your “1080i” TV may accept a 1080i signal, but it’s going to convert it to its native resolution of 768p. Even a 720p signal has to be converted to 768p.All this really points out is the farce that is native mode and that only a handful of Sony LCDs can do true 720p.

[Jason Whiddon]

You guys are getting off the main subject into nonsense about types of tv's, formats and history.

Will ALL of the HR series be able to do 1080p??

[Maverickster]

Has anyone read about QuadHD? 2160p.

Yeah, there was something at CES '08 about it. I think somebody had a prototype. The argument against its use is the re-hash of the same one that a some folks used to rail against 1080p -- too expensive to make it worth it since your eye can't resolve the difference between 1080p and 2160p at a X feet on a Y" display, yadda, yadda, yadda.

There was a pretty good thread on it at AVS. I'll try to dig it up and post a link.

--Mav

EDIT: Here's a link to one of the AVS threads: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=859872

[Mike728]

Will ALL of the HR series be able to do 1080p??

I can pretty much guarantee that the HR10-250 won't. :D

[Athlon646464]

do you need an HDTV to get the 1080p?

:confused:

No, but you will need a 1080p TV to see it in 1080p, otherwise your TV will scale it to the resolution it can handle....

Resolutions currently in homes and/or on the market (I believe I've got them all here):

250i
480i
480p
720p
960i
1080i
1080p

If everything else in the chain (originator to your screen) were the same, then the higher numbers would look better to you, with 1080p being the best.

But - a great 720p source will look better than a crappy 1080p one.....

Also - some debate about 720p sports (or quickly moving stuff) looking better than 1080i sports - again assuming everything else in the chain is the same.

:)

[Maverickster]

You guys are getting off the main subject into nonsense about types of tv's, formats and history.

Will ALL of the HR series be able to do 1080p??

No offense, but we're getting off topic because this question has been asked and "answered" numerous times in other threads on the subject.

--Mav

[jodyguercio]

1080i tv ? i thought hdtvs were either 720p or 1080p.

My in-laws have an older Zenith 65" RPTV with a 1080i native resolution.

[Jason Whiddon]

No offense, but we're getting off topic because this question has been asked and "answered" numerous times in other threads on the subject.

--Mav

Well sorry that Im not psychic, been away from D* for a bit and would just like a simple answer instead of an AVS style head vs wall banging.

[Maverickster]

Well sorry that Im not psychic, been away from D* for a bit and would just like a simple answer instead of an AVS style head vs wall banging.

Nice. Psychic abilities not needed, just an ability to use the search function. The issue is discussed ad nauseum here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134302

or here (in this thread):

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1736618&postcount=2
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1737043&postcount=14

--Mav

[TomCat]

This is not true of non-CRT TVs. Keeping things in the digital domain makes scaling, motion compensation and 3:2 pull-down a whole lot easier and more predictable...It is absolutely true of non-CRT TV's, and I have a hard copy of a Sony HD microdisplay schematic which proves that early conversion to analog HD YUV format certainly is a common practice, beyond any doubt.

Motion compensation is done inside MPEG encoding, so that is of course in the digital domain. But all MPEG is decoded to uncompressed digital video well before it is applied to whatever processing occurs between decoding and the light engine of the display, which means that whether the processing happens in either domain, motion compensation is no longer a part of processing by that point. For instance, the signal traveling from your HD DVR via HDMI is already decoded and reconstituted to a 1.485 Gb/s bit stream representing uncompressed digital HD video before it ever leaves the DVR. All motion compensation processing happened long ago at MPEG decode somewhere before the HDMI transmitter chip in the DVR. Whatever your display might do with that signal once it gets that far, motion compensation processing is not a part of it, and in no way can be.

Pulldown is simple to do in either domain, so there is no need to "keep" it in the digital domain to make it "a whole lot easier and predictable". No digital ATSC format sends content pulled up in the first place, as encoding reverts to "film mode" upon pullup detection and therefore sends no redundant frames. Pulldown may be re-added directly as a final step of MPEG decoding, but again, decoding is still in the digital domain by definition. So even if your HDTV processes ENTIRELY in the analog domain, pulldown is already done and over with, meaning that arguing about whether it is processed one way or another by one particular TV or another is a totally irrelevant point, since TV's don't handle pulldown at all. Video either contains pulldown or it doesn't, but manipulating pulldown itself is not a function of the display, it is simply an aspect of the video, and is merely passed thorough by the display.

Scaling done in the digital domain can introduce quatization error. Scaling done in the analog domain will not, even if not perfectly accurate. The potential error of analog scaling is imperceptible while quantization error is nasty and can quickly degrade the image. The tradeoff leans toward better results if done in the analog domain as a last step before the light engine, regardless of how the processing up to that point has been done.

[TomCat]

...For those 1080i vs. 1080p debaters...chew on these 2 articles for a bit..and then lets get back to the DVR discussion again... :DWhile the articles you posted are interesting (although adding nothing to the discussions on DBSTalk that haven't already been addressed) the author fails to make the critical distinction that most everyone else also fails to make, which is that "1080p" means two different things, both very different.

1080p as a broadcast or transmitted format refers typically to an image with 1920x1080 resolution transmitted progressively, and is distinguished from 1080i in that it has no interlace error that degrades motion.

1080p as a display format ALWAYS refers to a display that has a native resolution of 1920x1080 displayed progressively. While that sounds like the same thing, the difference is that the nature of the resolution or how it is displayed has nothing at all to do with preventing interlace error, which depends upon whether the original signal contains it or not. IOW, video captured as a 1080i signal has interlace error, and a 1080p display will not remove that interlace error. So typical 1080i video is not improved to 1080p quality by virtue of being displayed on a 1080p TV.

All flat panel TVs that have 1920x1080 resolution are not progressive because that is a better way to paint the raster or because that will impart some improved quality to the video, they are progressive because they have no other choice. They are progressive because they have to be. That's not a feature of the technology, it's actually a limitation. Interlace is not possible on flat panels.

But even if we limit the discussion to just transmit format, there's 1080p24, 1080p30, and 1080p60. While all 3 have the potential to improve actual pixel resolution over 720p60, only 1080p60 can match the motion-handling capability of 720p60. And guess which "1080p" will be the one DBS uses? You guessed it, 1080p24, which will be inferior to 720p for motion, possibly inferior to 1080i30 for motion, and not really superior to 1080i30 for interlace error when movies are being transmitted.

Actually, every single movie ever broadcast or delivered as 1080i30 (and any content that originally was shot in a progressive 24 fps format) is converted to film mode at encode, meaning it is ACTUALLY transmitted as guess what...true 1080p24, no different than all of the other 1080p content currently on the internet or planned to be posted to the internet. It is typically converted to 1080i30 once again at decode by virtue of a metadata flag and fed to your 1080p display as 1080i30 to maintain conformity with non-24fps broadcast content.

If DBS ever uses 1080p60, then we (or DISH, or DTV) might actually have something worth crowing about. But that is not the plan, and even 1080p60 is only a slight improvement over what we have now, including 1080i30, 1080p24, and 720p.

The whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. It is DISH flailing badly at falling behind in the HD race and pulling the "1080p card" to deperately try to convince people they are still relevant and on the cutting edge and that they have something special to offer, and it is DTV reacting to it in a "me too" manner. Both know its all BS, and both should be as ashamed to be foisting this all-but-worthless technology on us as if it was really meaningful as the clowns at BestBuy should be ashamed for touting it as the be-all and end-all of display technology, even though they are still two very different things. At least a 1080p display has significant merit over other displays, a claim 1080p content can't really honestly muster vs. 720p and 1080i content.