U.S. protests Russian arms sales to Iraq

[firephoto]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/23/sprj.irq.russia.military.sales/
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States said Sunday it had protested to Moscow about reports that Russian firms have sold Iraq antitank missiles, night vision goggles and jamming gear.

http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=3455
Russian technicians are now helping Iraq jam crucial satellite signals needed to guide bombs and military aircraft, U.S. official

24/03/2003 02:57
Baku Today
The State Department said it had repeatedly brought sales of "militarily sensitive equipment" to Iraq to the attention of senior officials in Moscow, including in the days leading up to the current conflict, but had not yet received a satisfactory response.


Nice to see the Russians helping out. :(

[Mike123abc]

Russia does not one of their best customers to be taken out...

[gcutler]

I had mistakenly thought that since we were all on the same side with Al-Queda (Al-Queda very big in Chechnya where russians are fighting Muslim sepratists) that things would change.

But with them helping the Iranians with their nuclear program and as it now seems the Iraqis I guess it was all just a facade.

[Jack White]

Originally posted by gcutler
I had mistakenly thought that since we were all on the same side with Al-Queda (Al-Queda very big in Chechnya where russians are fighting Muslim sepratists) that things would change.

But with them helping the Iranians with their nuclear program and as it now seems the Iraqis I guess it was all just a facade.

The Russians may be the bad guys, but, they're still some real BAD ASS MOTHA^%$#@!(.
They tested the LARGEST nuclear weapon EVER(a 58 MEGATON MONSTER) in the early 60s. The US suspected that the Soviets had the largest nuclear weapons on earth in 1963(100+ MEGATON MONSTERS).
Even today, the MOST POWERFUL ICBM(multi warhead) combo on EATRH belongs to the Ruskies.
They've got a HELL OF A LOT more Megatonage than the warheads on our Minutemen or Peacekeeper ICBMs can deliver.
The ONLY things that have more Megatonage than Russian Nukes are Stars, Supernovas, Hypernovas, and the Big Bang.
Like it or not, even the US can't go into a full all out war against Russia.
Russians have SO MANY thousands of Nukes, and nuclear delivery systems like ICBMs, Submarine Launched Ballistic Missiles, Submarine Launched Supersonic Cruise Missiles, Ship Launched Supersonic Cruise Missiles, Air Launched Supersonic Cruise Missiles, and Air Dropped Gravity Bombs, that even the a MULTI TRILLION DOLLAR MULTI LAYER Missile Defense Shield wouldn't have a SNOWBALL's CHANCE IN HELL of stopping even half the Russian Nukes.
That's why even the US never took on the Soviets on head on.
If that wasn't bad enough, the Russians are also the best in the world at Missile Defense and have missile defense systems much better than anyone on earth.
Their new S-500 AMB system and Stealth Defeating Radar will run circles around the Patriot PAC-3 and Israeli Arrow-2.
The new Russians missile defense systems are designed to shoot down Stealth Aircraft, Cruise Missiles as well as regular Aircraft and Ballistic Missiles.
Russian air defense systems are so advanced that 1950s Russian SAM Systems and Radar shot down an F-117 Stealth Bomber over Serbia.
Russian Air Defenses have humbled even the mightiest of Foes.
The Israeli Air Force Pilots are supposed to be much better than American and the best in the world.
Russian defenses are SO GOOD, that even a WEAK country like Syria shot down 36 Israeli planes in JUST ONE DAY with Russian SA-6 Sams during the Yom Kippur War. The Israeli Pilots were afraid to challange Egypts SA-6 sams and so the vast majority of Egypt's SA-6 SAM network was intact even at the end of the Yom Kippur War. The SA-6 Sams made mincemeat out of Israel's Phantoms during the Yom Kippur War.
Israelis kicked the Syrian and Egyptian Airforce's ass, but the Russian Sams and AAA kicked the Israeli Airforce's Ass.
NOBODY on earth wants to take Russia on head on.
The Russian Mafia sold nuclear weapons to Iran and russian is building a VAST nuclear infrastructure in Iran, but NOBODY really has the power to fight a head on war against Russia and survive so there's not a lot anyone can do.
You have to remember that the way the US won the Cold War was ECONOMICALLY.
Even now, NOBODY would want to fight the Russians head on because they're weak economically, but Militarily the Russians can BLOW UP THE WORLD 1000 times over.

[firephoto]

Dude, wake up. We're not going to war with the Russians! The gov't people there haven't prevented some Russian companies from selling and setting up military equipment for Iraq.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by Jack White
The Russians may be the bad guys, but, they're still some real BAD ASS MOTHA^%$#@!(.
They tested the LARGEST nuclear weapon EVER(a 58 MEGATON MONSTER) in the early 60s. The US suspected that the Soviets had the largest nuclear weapons on earth in 1963(100+ MEGATON MONSTERS)...

Don't forget, you replied directly to me, I feel I have the right to be totally honest to you, I have held my tongue to your other posts since they didn't involve me, UNTIL NOW!!!

What does this have to do with anything being discussed here? Who said anything about going to war with Russia??? You changed the topic out of nowhere, just so you could fill up space.

Here we go again!!! Just stop posting, you post and you post and you list random statistics and tidbits you try to accentuate points that mean nothing and your points have nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about. And you leave out other obvious statistics just to make your statements sound accurate, leaving them useless.

You need to take a class on statistics and on how to debate, since it is apparent you have not one ounce of understanding of each. Your posting of recipes would add more to the conversation.

This is just your typical attempt to hijack every single thread to your agenda, STOP IT!!!

[John Corn]

The situation in Russia right now is a mess. There is no distinguishing between military, government and organized crime. I do not doubt that Russians are selling illegal weapons (possibly to Iraq) but its more a criminal matter than it is a governmental/diplomatic one. This doesn't necessarily reflect on the legitimate position of the Russian government in relation to Iraq anymore than the Oklahoma city bombing reflects on the U.S position that they do not like to blow up their own citizens.

Its also worth considering that German secret-services were already caught faking a bust of Russian nuclear material once. The trade of illegal weapons for the former Soviet republics is seen as a huge cash-cow for the emanicipated post-war intelligence community and they'll go to great lengths to make this look like a serious threat to international security.

[George_F]

Actually, there's more than just missiles.

Jamming equipment to send guided weapons off target(and hit civilians, as a side-effect) was hidden amongst humanitarian aid boxes on flights to Baghdad. Night vision equipment was sold to Yemen and Syria THEN shipped/sold to Baghdad.

These are all clear breaches of UN resolutions, as well as dishonorable acts in any way. Does that mean the Russian government is responsible as such? Not necessarily. Too much organized crime involvement there.

In any case, can we stop hearing about how the "world doesn't support us" when its clear they've been the ones arming Saddam's regime or paying him so he can buy chemicals weapons. It's disgusting.

And if the "US" armed Iraq, how is his entire life has been modeled after Stalin and he is equipped with MiGs, Hinds and T-54 and T-72 tanks(and Scuds) These are all SOviet/Russian military models.

[Adam Richey]

President Bush is almost in a Twister game with political enemies. As amusing as that might be, he has Iraq, emerging North Korea and Iran, and perhaps Russia later on. He takes on one problem, and another arises. We are entering a very rocky period in the next decade, in my opinion.

[DmitriA]

Originally posted by Jack White

Even now, NOBODY would want to fight the Russians head on because they're weak economically, but Militarily the Russians can BLOW UP THE WORLD 1000 times over.

That's all well and good but almost all of their weapon systems are RAPIDLY deterioating right now and they don't have the money to upgrade or even support most of them (which is the primary reason why Putin wanted Bush to sign all the missile reduction treaties - Russia just couldn't afford to keep most of their missiles operational anymore and wanted US to stand down the similar numbers of missiles that Russia would be taking down anyway).
The huge problem is not just with the major components of most of the weapon systems, but the minor, but nevertheless absolutely crucial things that had been manufactured by small factories during the Soviet times - most of these factories have either shutdown or transformed to manufacture something more profitable. As a result, there are now huge and very expensive weapons systems that do not have a lot of minor but very important supply parts and there is noone to manufacture them!
So the russian bear is nowhere as bad as he sounds :)