Anyone here watching Al-Jazeera?

[raj2001]

I know you can get Al-Jazeera on DISH network or possibly on C/Ku band. Anyone here watching them? (Even if it's just for the pictures)

[Jack White]

Originally posted by raj2001
I know you can get Al-Jazeera on DISH network or possibly on C/Ku band. Anyone here watching them? (Even if it's just for the pictures)

Al-Jazeera is a pay channel on Dish and since nobody here can speak Arabic, I doubt that anyone here has Al-Jazeers.
If they also broadcast in English on the SAP channel, then more people would have it.

[Bill R]

Not only is Al-Jazeera a pay channel, it is a very expensive pay channel. It is $19.95 a month.

If anyone is interested in getting it, as RAJ2001 said, it is available from DISH Network. It is on channel 645 and you need a dish pointing at the 61.5 or 148 satellite.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Jack White
since nobody here can speak Arabic,

Don't assume!

[Steve Mehs]

For video, Al Jazeera would be an interestring channel to have, but it's in the Arabic Enhanced Pack which is $23/mo, but also includes Al Zikr, ART, ART Movies, ART Music, Dubai Network and LBC.

[firephoto]

E-bomb equipped cruise missile passing by their ground station anyone?
:)

[Steve Mehs]

For a more international view that free (well for a few more hours) Dish had a free preview weekend of Antenna TV one of the Greek channels. For the past few hours they've been doing a split screen with war coverage and pre Oscar coverage

[raj2001]

Originally posted by firephoto
E-bomb equipped cruise missile passing by their ground station anyone?
:)

:confused:

This makes no sense. Why would we be attacking a TV station in a somewhat democratic country that poses no threat to us?

[firephoto]

Does anyone know what the commentary by Al-jazeera was while they were showing the Iraqi TV footage of the POW's?

[raj2001]

Originally posted by firephoto
Does anyone know what the commentary by Al-jazeera was while they were showing the Iraqi TV footage of the POW's?

http://tarjim.ajeeb.com/ajeeb/default.asp?lang=1

[RichW]

"This makes no sense. Why would we be attacking a TV station in a somewhat democratic country that poses no threat to us?"

Exactly! Of course, the passions of the ignorant are inflamed beyond that of reason. Unfortunately, our own administration plays upon that ignorance. But if one really thinks with a brain instead of a gential appendage, there would be a realization that the same person who established and funded Al Jazeera, the Emir of Qatar, is the same person who is providing his country as the host to the command center for the war with Iraq.

[bkwest]

I think Al Jazeera should be droped from DishNetworks line up. They are making profit from this and that should be outlawed during this time. I have seen the full footage they aired and its very distrubing. Go find it on Kazza. Then you make a choice... should an american company be making profit from the rebroadcast of such programming? Or should Dish pull the channel out of respect till after the war?

[Bill R]

Originally posted by bkwest
I think Al Jazeera should be droped from DishNetworks line up.

You censorship people scare me (and living in the Cincinnati area I can tell you that censorsip DOES get scary). You start with one thing you don't like, then you spread your censonship to something else you don't agree with.

While I don't agree with what Al-Jazeera is showing I do think that DISH Network should have the right to carry it. You have the right to NOT subscribe to that channel or if it bothers you THAT much, you can drop DISH's service.

[Scott Greczkowski]

I may be going against the grain here, but I believe that the footage should be shown.

I was at a local dealers office yesterday and saw the footage on his showroom receiver. I was outraged and saddened. But unfortunately this IS what war is.

This war coverage is like watching game day coverage on the SuperBowl, yet its all candy coated to make it sound like everythig is right in the world.

What was seen on Al-Jazeera was the unedit hashness of what is really going on in the war, yes it was indeed propaganda but it was war news none the less.

War is hell, and that video showed us what war really is, it was not suger coated. The video should be a wake up call of how nasty the Iraqis can be.

I keep hearing that the video shown with the POW's was against the Genevia convention rules and that those responsable for the video could be arrested for war crimes. My honest opinion is these folks don't care about getting arrested. Its a war and as we are quickly learning this is not going to be a war faught by the rulebook. Perhaps it is time to forget about the rules of engagement and fight the war like they are fighting. Two can play dirty pool.

I support our troops, and while I fear that this war will go on a lot longer then many expect I pray that they all come home safe as soon as possible.

[BobMurdoch]

Originally posted by bkwest
I think Al Jazeera should be droped from DishNetworks line up. They are making profit from this and that should be outlawed during this time. I have seen the full footage they aired and its very distrubing. Go find it on Kazza. Then you make a choice... should an american company be making profit from the rebroadcast of such programming? Or should Dish pull the channel out of respect till after the war?

I disagee. They are providing a window as to what the Arab world is thinking. Although you would need to speak Arabic to get the full message, this could be a valuable resource for those inside the government trying to manage this conflict.

It also helps keep the US honest, by forcing them to address some of the issues they raise, and to not retreat to the "because we said so" reasons for justifying some of the things they have been doing.

BTW, if you're curious, I support this war, because the old rules of engagement left us with a big hole in New York and an enemy without a flag who wanted to keep hitting us until the US converted to Islam as an official state religion per Bin Laden's statements. Previously, an enemy would ensure his own demise by launching a large attack against us as we could track where the attack came from. Now we can't tell who may be behind an attack. The deterrent is therefore removed and every two bit country gets to cheer as we get another black eye with no one to punch back at. In that environment, I have no problem embracing my inner Machiavelli and reminding the world that is often "better to be feared than loved". How we act after Iraq falls will determine the fate of long term world opinion. If we do this properly, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, and Iran will think twice about giving terrorists safe haven, as they wonder if they are next on the list. Once again, the policy of appeasing the terrorists and their supporters would only insure that we would wither and eventually succumb.

That being said, I believe the administration blundered its way through the diplomatic process and allowed the world to paint us with overtones of Orwellian menace. I hope they are more effective in the future of conveying our ideals to the world without seemingly putting the world under our thumb in the rest of the world's opinion.

[James_F]

I disagree Scott. While showing the prisoners is fine, showing them talk to the TV people is WAY out of line. Al Jazeera should not show the interviews and they should hide the faces with a black dot so know one knows who they are.

War is hell, but this is inhumane and only encourages the action in the future by the Iraqis. No POW should have to go though any of this.

Perhaps it is time to forget about the rules of engagement and fight the war like they are fighting. Two can play dirty pool.

Scott, this is what separates us from the Iraqis and other "evil" regimes. We are better than they are and we should treat their prisoners like we would want ours to be treated.

[Danny R]

They are making profit from this and that should be outlawed during this time.

While you are at it, make certain you ban CNN, Fox and all the other news stations and papers which are also making a profit. Don't doubt for a minute that all our news agencies will publish how good their ratings are during this crisis.

Al Jazeera represents something that is desperately needed during this war: a neutral point of view disassociated with either the US or Iraq.

Sure they show American prisoners and how the Iraqi's have treated them. Do you think this is doing Iraq a favor? If anything it strengthens our resolve because it shows how Iraq again violates international law. They have also shown images of Iraqi prisoners captured by us. The difference is clear. Likewise they have broadcast information we've provided them. Arabs are much more likely to trust info broadcast from Al Jazeera than from CNN. If Al Jazeera shows Iraqi prisoners being taken, then they know the Iraqi State TV's claims that these are imposters are false.

Personally, I would prefer that CNN broadcast the full video. I think our own country should be able to see how the Iraqi's treat our prisoners.

[Scott Greczkowski]

James the American Networks were the first to complaign about them showing the POW's, yet today all of them are showing video of the POW tape. Does that mean they are violating the Genevia convention as well?

And whats with all of the video I keep seeing of Iraqi troops surendering? Close ups of the people as they are forced to get on the ground with their hands behind their head. Is this video ok? Why the double standard.?

I just don't like the suger coated news we have been getting so far. My news on TV is so sanatized I feel like I can eat off my screen.

[James_F]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
James the American Networks were the first to complaign about them showing the POW's, yet today all of them are showing video of the POW tape. Does that mean they are violating the Genevia convention as well?
YES

And whats with all of the video I keep seeing of Iraqi troops surrendering? Close ups of the people as they are forced to get on the ground with their hands behind their head. Is this video ok? Why the double standard.?
They are not having to answer questions about where they are from. There are not interviews by CNN of these POWs and there are no guns pointed to their heads. That is a huge difference.

I just don't like the sugar coated news we have been getting so far. My news on TV is so sanatized I feel like I can eat off my screen.
And what did you expect? I wasn't able to really watch the footage from the last gulf war, but look what happened in Bosnia and Afghanistan... Lots of fluff and not much substance.

[Jacob S]

I also think the footage should be seen, and if you do not want to see it then turn the channel. We should know what is going on, although sometimes it is a bit harsh.

[TNGTony]

Shepard Smith on Fox News had asom Swiss official on (I can't remember the name or office, but he was NOT an authority. Just a minor official) and they were discussing the Geneva Convension rules on POWs. It was easy for the guy to say that the Iraqui actions were absolutely a violation. Shep asked point blank if what Fox and CNN do in showing Iraquis surrendering and being taken prisoner as also a violation. The guy tried every way he could not to answer the question until Shep nailed him down. The guy prefaced his comments by reaffirming that he was NOT an international lawyer, but yes what CNN and Fox do DOES violate the Geneva convention because they are showing a prisoner of war for the curiosity of the captor's citizens. He said that the difference in the two countries was a matter of degrees. Clearly Iraq's deeds are deplorable and our (CNN, Fox, et al) possible transgressions are minimal and really should not be compared as petty theft cannot be compared to cold-blooded, pre-meditated murder, they are still transgressions.

Last night on Fox News, they read the relevant clauses from the convension and as they were reading it (just on the surface) I was suprised to learn that, indeed, if you follow the letter of the convension, showing Iraquis surrendering and being taken prisone (ESPECIALLY if you see their faces) is a clear violation.

I really want to hear from true international lawyers who can explain if my understanding is wrong. The only thing I see is that the news agencies in the US are not state run while the Iraqi news is absolutely a state run agency. But one can argue that by allowing reporters to be "imbedded" with the armend forces, the news agencies are getting state SANCTIONED reports.

Interesting arguments can be made.

Here are the relevant portions of the Geneva Convension:
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/7c4d08d9b287a42141256739003e636b/6fef854a3517b75ac125641e004a9e68?OpenDocument
Art 13. Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.

Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.

Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.

Art 14. Prisoners of war are entitled in all circumstances to respect for their persons and their honour.

See ya
Tony

[raj2001]

Sunday night I also saw Aaron Brown talking to someone at Al-Jazeera (I can't remember who it was), questioning him as to why they showed the footage of the US POW's. The guy at Al-Jazeera simply told him that Al-Jazeera wants to be fair and balanced, and CNN showed pictures of Iraqi POW's, therefore they don't see anything wrong with Al-Jazeera showing pictures of US POW's. Aaron Brown was visibly disgusted.

Scott, I also have to disagree with something you said earlier.

The video should be a wake up call of how nasty the Iraqis can be.

I don't believe that the Iraqi's themselves are nasty. I do believe, however, that Saddam Hussein's regime is nasty. Those lower down in the ranks have to obey Saddam or risk being executed. They therefore have no choice in the matter, they're simply following orders.

[firephoto]

I don't think the showing of the POWs was the big problem. The problem was the images of the dead soldiers layed out on the floor of a room. They didn't die their, they were gathered up from somewhere and put their, and then closeup video was taken of them, and shown around the world. That is what is wrong with the situation.
I've heard the stories of some of the POWs parents, spouses, or relatives finding out by seeing their loved ones captive on TV. What about the ones that saw their loved one dead on the TV? That is VERY wrong.

[James_F]

The interviews was the problem.

[tampa8]

Originally posted by raj2001


Scott, I also have to disagree with something you said earlier.



I don't believe that the Iraqi's themselves are nasty. I do believe, however, that Saddam Hussein's regime is nasty. Those lower down in the ranks have to obey Saddam or risk being executed. They therefore have no choice in the matter, they're simply following orders.

Ah yes, "Only following orders." There are several Jewish families that would like to have a word with you about "Following orders." This statement by you says volumes.

[HarryD]

Sure, let them show the POWs. Maybe they can add a little footage from Osama too! Please guys! Are you kidding me?
It wouldn't bother me in the least if a stray missle hit that place.

[James_F]

So you don't believe in free press then huh?

[firephoto]

Looks like there's only so much room for reporters at the stock exchange. ;)

NYSE revokes credentials for Al-Jazeera
http://www.sunspot.net/business/investing/bal-nyse0325,0,7151546.story?coll=bal-investing-headlines
Exchange spokesman Ray Pellechia denied the station's war coverage was the cause. Citing "security reasons," he said the exchange had chosen to limit the number of broadcasters working at the lower Manhattan exchange since the war began, giving access only to networks that focus "on responsible business coverage."
Al-Jazeera said it got a letter from the exchange saying the number of accredited TV stations needed to be reduced. It said reporters Ammar al-Sankari and Ramzi Shiber had their credentials withdrawn.
The network said the reason was "Al-Jazeera's coverage of the war on Iraq."

[lee635]

I personally find any public filming of US POWs before they are released to be humiliating to the individual, patently offensive and out-of-line. As a result, I object to all public filming of any POW, Iraqi or American.

Well, I'm not an international war crimes lawyer either. My read is that both sides violate the Geneva Conventions when US POWs are filmed and interviewed AND when Iraqi POWs are filmed and particularly a shot I saw of an Iraqi POW who appeared to be crying.

Remember though that the Conventions cover the Military, not the press. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the respective military leaders to shield their POWs from these sorts of spectacles. Remembering too that the Conventions were ratified long before we had sat. links and so forth and at a time when POWs might be publicly taken through the streets to be spat upon or much worse.

Finally, one apparent good outcome of these photos and videos is that evidence is created of the condition of the POWs upon capture. For example, the US POWs looked to be in very good shape, except for that poor soul with the leg injury (The wife and I said a prayer for her last night.) Anyway, should these POWs later be returned with evidence of additional injuries, we have documentation that the additional injuries occured during their detainment.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by tampa8


Ah yes, "Only following orders." There are several Jewish families that would like to have a word with you about "Following orders." This statement by you says volumes.

:confused: How'd the Jews get into this? AFAIK, Israel has been told to keep out of this war.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by firephoto
Looks like there's only so much room for reporters at the stock exchange. ;)

NYSE revokes credentials for Al-Jazeera
http://www.sunspot.net/business/investing/bal-nyse0325,0,7151546.story?coll=bal-investing-headlines


Oh great, censorship. Just what we need when we're supposedly bringing American democracy to the Middle East.

[jrjcd]

sorry, raj, but the excuse that "i was only following orders" didn't fly at nuremberg and it won't fly at the end of this conflict...Israel is keeping a good wait and see on this, as long as scuds don't start showing up in their backyard. The recognition of israel on iraq'a part after the war will go along way to establishing peace in the middle east,so they have a good reason to be paitient.

[jrjcd]

guess what boys and girls-we live in a society of controlled censorship-you don't yell fire in a crowded theatre, you don't libel your next door neighbor without serious consequences, and you don't report the exact location going ons of your side on the air during a war!!! In this republic, we have gone a loooooooong way in establishing the freeist press on the globe, but to have it, you have to follow certain basic rules of propriety and of law to keep it....

[HarryD]

Originally posted by James_F
So you don't believe in free press then huh?

Is that what you call it?? :shrug:

[James_F]

I do. They can broadcast whatever they want without fear of Qatar censoring them. Is it biased? YES. But so if Fox News...

The euros are broadcasting the same stuff....

[thevoice]

Originally posted by James_F

Scott, this is what separates us from the Iraqis and other "evil" regimes. We are better than they are and we should treat their prisoners like we would want ours to be treated.


We only believe what our country wants us to. Why filter the war? Just as SH makes sure his country shows only the good over him - why filter the truth from our guys.. We should show it all! that is the true "Shock and Awe!"

As for seperation of evil regimes, once again - we supported and trained many other countries including Bin Laden to benefit us (trained them to kill others for us!) and that doesn't include what anyone in spec ops will tell you - We kill others for the good of our country PERIOD. Why doesn't the goverment tell you this, why are other countries the only ones that see this? I am not saying SH isn't an evil man - to me he is one of the worse, but we are plenty guilty of everything we are charging him with.

Lets all just pray that this will be over soon and let the other countries live how they want - they do not want to be the US and I am sure want SH out. Focus on our country as we have plenty of problems to worry about - insurance, disease, look at the media and the evil in the US! Watch "Bowling for Columbine" as they put some of this into perspective. Why would anyone want to live in the US with the crime we have here daily? It is for our freedom and we pay the price for that, but shouldn't make others..

God bless you all.

[bogi]

Originally posted by jrjcd
"i was only following orders"


Ahem all German Nazi Prisoners imprisoned by the USA were out by 1960. Alot of them didn't serve their sentences so maybe it did fly.

[HarryD]

You're comparing Fox News with Al-Jazeera? Hardly.
It's time to draw the line when it comes to broadcasting terrorist messages or pictures of executed US military soldiers.
The NYSE had the right idea when they booted Al-Jazeera out.

[firephoto]

Hackers Strike Al Jazeera
http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNews/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=8100053
By Internetweek.com
The Web site of the Arab news organization Al Jazeera has faced hacker attacks and technical glitches in its attempts to launch an English-language edition, according to reports.

Oh double darn. ;)

[Brian Rector]

Actually, I have accessed both the English Al Jazeera today and also the Arabic version of it too (months ago). The English version is nothing to brag about, since its very limited. (Notice that there is a "Best Viewed With Internet Explorer 5.5" button on the lower right hand corner of the screen. Talking about being a bit behind the times there).

I accessed the Arabic version and got it translated into English by going to a English translation site. The site I went to was Ajeeb.net's website. The translation was not perfect. Only a few lines of each story was translated into English, however. I even accessed the live feed of Al Jazerra via Windows Media Player. Granted, it was in Arabic and I couldnt understand anything about it, but still....it was interesting to watch.

Ajeeb.net has stopped doing Arabic to English and English to Arabic translations for free. If you want to get translations done through Ajeeb, expect to pay 100 bucks a year.

[Jacob S]

The good thing about the showing of the POW's is to know of their condition, so that is one good thing about it, but its bad to show the dead ones.

[Brian Rector]

I tried to access the English site for a few days and its down. However, I got this interesting message two days ago:

"You Are Not Authorized To View This Site"

It made me feel very special indeed :D

[Punkitup]

The filming of our POWs does have one marked advantage, and that is that at least we know they are alive, and the Iraqis may be inclined to keep them that way. We cannot say with any degree of certainty the same of the other members of that detachment, or the other numerous Americans and Britons currently listed as missing. Being filmed by the same people who in the past have tortured their own Olympic Athletes for lack of performance is I would think the least of our POWs worries. And if this Iraqi propaganda stunt however unfortunately humiliating proves advantageous to us in the determination of their status then that’s not an all-together bad thing.  I think it is very questionable as to whether we could rely on the Iraqi regime to call in the Red Cross or Red Crescent to declare their status otherwise.

As to the editorial slant accompanying the broadcast of these images, I don’t see where anyone has room to be surprised; I mean these Arab satellite networks are playing to an Arab audience. With the exception of Kuwaiti TV I have to believe that kind words for the Americans or British are going to be few and far between. Putting Iran, Syria and Lebanon aside; most of the corrupt and misogynistic regimes in the area that pass for our allies have a long history of allowing and even fostering just enough dissent pointed at the Americans to detract from their own dismal performance.

Pray for Peace
James – USMC 1980-84

"Armed and Curious" (http://www.radiofreerecording.com/armed.jpg) - The George Bush story