Can't upgrade to new equipment (HR21+) ... ever!?

[dak357]

I recently got a call from DTV telling me about their free HD swap program. I currently have a very old HR10-250, and was interested in upgrading it to a new HR21 with an AM21 tuner. So I booked an appointment...

I get my HD locals over the air. My view of the sky is obstructed and I cannot get the 2 western-most satellites. However, I still want a DVR that can record HD, so I did not want to "downgrade" to a standard def DVR. This is why I wanted the HR21+AM21 combo.

The installer showed up today and when he confirmed that I had an obstructed view, he apologized and said there was nothing he could do... I will not be able to upgrade my equipment. The new HR21 model he brought is model "HR21-NC", "NC" is "new challenge" and he said if this unit cannot see ALL FIVE satellites, it cannot be activated. He called his supervisor to confirm, which he did. I called DTV, luckily I got a good CSR, and he confirmed this too.

So it appears I can NEVER upgrade my equipment. My only option is to buy an old HR20 off eBay or something (both the tech and DTV said this was my only option), but that's not much of a difference from what I already have, so why bother. HR10s and 20s won't be around forever, so it looks like because of DTVs hardware change to require a view of all satellites, I'm pretty much screwed.

Is this the case?

[davring]

If an HR20 will work so will an HR21, no difference except OTA tuner. You can get an HR21 to work w/o sats 110/119, you need to find a tech that knows how to do the set up.

[davring]

And Welcome to DBSTalk!

[Grentz]

Did he say which satellites you cannot see?

If you cannot see 110 and 119 you are in luck, soon a new dish called the Slimline 3 is going to be out which will let you just pickup 99, 101, 103 (instead of the Slimline 5 that needs 99, 101, 103, 110, 119).

This will allow you to pass the test and be upgraded.

[Grentz]

If an HR20 will work so will an HR21, no difference except OTA tuner. You can get an HR21 to work w/o sats 110/119, you need to find a tech that knows how to do the set up.

The new receivers have installer verification that will not let installers activate unless the receiver sees ALL satellites for the dish type (SL5 = 99, 101, 103, 110, 119, SL3 = 99, 101, 103)

The only way around this is a waiver, which is supposedly hard to get.

[davring]

The new receivers have installer verification that will not let installers activate unless the receiver sees ALL satellites for the dish type (SL5 = 99, 101, 103, 110, 119, SL3 = 99, 101, 103)

The only way around this is a waiver, which is supposedly hard to get.

A couple of techs have posted that the waivers can be had, how difficult they are to get I'm not sure.

[techrep]

Do you already have a slimline or sidecar dish?

[dak357]

Thanks for the info. The sats I cannot see are 110 and 119. 103 is questionable, but 99 and 101 are fine. I have the old Phase III dish.
Will the SL3 work with the HR21?

In my excitement over getting new gear, I already bought a SWM-8 multiswitch to replace my old Spaun 5x8 switch. Now I'm wondering if I need to return it. Any idea if the SWM-8 will work with an SL3 dish?

[davring]

The SL3 will work with the HR21, but you DO need to see 103.

[techrep]

Thanks for the info. The sats I cannot see are 110 and 119. 103 is questionable, but 99 and 101 are fine. I have the old Phase III dish.
Will the SL3 work with the HR21?

In my excitement over getting new gear, I already bought a SWM-8 multiswitch to replace my old Spaun 5x8 switch. Now I'm wondering if I need to return it. Any idea if the SWM-8 will work with an SL3 dish?

If you get sat 101, I would be very suprised if you can't get sat 103c.

The SWM-8 will work with the Slimline 3 or the Slimline 5 dishes. You don't have to wait on the Slimline 3 dish if you use the SWM-8 as it will take care of the stacking issues associated with guide data not available (under certain conditions) when sat 119 is not received.

[bobnielsen]

Thanks for the info. The sats I cannot see are 110 and 119. 103 is questionable, but 99 and 101 are fine. I have the old Phase III dish.
Will the SL3 work with the HR21?

In my excitement over getting new gear, I already bought a SWM-8 multiswitch to replace my old Spaun 5x8 switch. Now I'm wondering if I need to return it. Any idea if the SWM-8 will work with an SL3 dish?

The SWM-8 will work with the SL3. When used with the SL5, it doesn't need 119 for the guide data, so should work if the installer will agree to set it up.

[rudeney]

The installer showed up today and when he confirmed that I had an obstructed view, he apologized and said there was nothing he could do... I will not be able to upgrade my equipment. The new HR21 model he brought is model "HR21-NC", "NC" is "new challenge" and he said if this unit cannot see ALL FIVE satellites, it cannot be activated.

I thought NC was No Cables, and was usually sent out as a replacement for failed equipment where the only thing needed is to swap the receiver.

[JLucPicard]

I thought NC was No Cables, and was usually sent out as a replacement for failed equipment where the only thing needed is to swap the receiver.
That certainly makes a WHOLE lot more sense than what the installer told the OP it meant! :lol:

[techrep]

NC..........no clue?

[davring]

NC..........no clue?

If we can't figure it out. how can a poor undertrained CSR:)

[dak357]

Thanks for the help guys. I called DTV and unfortunately on this time around I got no help, just a big run around. They essentially told me that my attempt at upgrading is a waste of time because I can't get anything I'm not already getting now. They couldn't (or wouldn't or didn't know how to) get me a SL3 dish, or a waiver to use the SL5 dish.

So I'm back at square 1. I guess I'll just return my fancy new useless multiswitch and keep the gear I got until DTV stops broadcasting MPEG-2 or my HR10 finally craps out...

[davring]

Try a local installer, you may find one who knows what they need to install your system. If successful, you could ask D* for credits to offset the cost, I know they do work with customers in this situation.

[kevinturcotte]

Any chance the installer would tell the receiver it was connected to an SL3? I would think that would solve the problem.

[davring]

Any chance the installer would tell the receiver it was connected to an SL3? I would think that would solve the problem.

The OP bought a SWM multi-switch, I don't think the installer would have a problem using a Slimline 5lnb.

[Grentz]

Thanks for the help guys. I called DTV and unfortunately on this time around I got no help, just a big run around. They essentially told me that my attempt at upgrading is a waste of time because I can't get anything I'm not already getting now. They couldn't (or wouldn't or didn't know how to) get me a SL3 dish, or a waiver to use the SL5 dish.

So I'm back at square 1. I guess I'll just return my fancy new useless multiswitch and keep the gear I got until DTV stops broadcasting MPEG-2 or my HR10 finally craps out...

If you are comfortable doing the install and motivated enough, you could purchase your own 5 LNB dish from some place like www.solidsignal.com, install it yourself with the SWM you got, and then order up a HD-DVR from directv or go pick one up from a store like Best Buy and activate it.

You would have to do more work, and would be paying for the dish, but it is a potential way to upgrade.

[techrep]

Any chance the installer would tell the receiver it was connected to an SL3? I would think that would solve the problem.

Yes, during setup SL3 can be selected as the dish in use (even if the dish is actually a SL5) and sats 110 and 119 will not be factored in the program guide.

The OP bought a SWM multi-switch, I don't think the installer would have a problem using a Slimline 5lnb.

I don't think so either.

[Grentz]

You cannot just set it as SL3 with a SL5 dish, Tom already has said as much.

But using a SWM, you should be fine as the guide data (which is the issue) comes from 101.

[kevinturcotte]

You cannot just set it as SL3 with a SL5 dish, Tom already has said as much.

But using a SWM, you should be fine as the guide data (which is the issue) comes from 101.

You CAN, I've done it before I had SWM. Just wondering if the installer would be willing to.

[RobertE]

You CAN, I've done it before I had SWM. Just wondering if the installer would be willing to.

From everything I've been privy too, much like diplexing with SWMs, it works in some cases, long term effects & reliability are still unknown.

So, at this time, IMHO, I'd recommend against anyone setting a SL5 as a SL3.

[techrep]

You cannot just set it as SL3 with a SL5 dish, Tom already has said as much.

But using a SWM, you should be fine as the guide data (which is the issue) comes from 101.

That was said a little while back before 1 or 2 software/firmware updates.

It will work "if" you use SWM for stacking/destacking

[kevinturcotte]

From everything I've been privy too, much like diplexing with SWMs, it works in some cases, long term effects & reliability are still unknown.

So, at this time, IMHO, I'd recommend agains anyone setting a SL5 as a SL3.

Me too! Unless it's necessary (HD vs. no HD-is it worth it?).

[Grentz]

That was said a little while back before 1 or 2 software/firmware updates.

It will work "if" you use SWM for stacking/destacking

Good to know, thanks for the info ;)

So many things get thrown around sometimes it is hard to determine the official info, which is why I was going off what Tom said in this case :)

[gulfwarvet]

NC..........no clue?



NC= No cable's included other than a power cord.

[inkahauts]

Within the next few months, it will be hard to get a Slimline5 or SlimlineSWM5... You will have to be ordering specific international or live in an area that gets only SD locals from 119. They will only be installing Slimline3 and SlimlineSWM3's for almost all there customers. You are just a little ahead of this switch. Don't fret, you will get HD...

And by the way, DON"T buy an HR20 or any other Directv box off of ebay. Only by a new one from a retailer, or Directv. They are leased machines, and most people who get them off of ebay have had major issues getting them activated, if they were even able to.

And by the way, the HR20 is not old or out of fashion... It has the exact same functionality capabilities as the HR21's and HR22's...

NC? Maybe that is some way of referring to the new policy of a box not being able to be activated unless they can get signals off of all sats that the installed dish is supposed to be able to receive. That is something that is being implemented.

[gulfwarvet]

NC= No cable's included other than a power cord.

Within the next few months, it will be hard to get a Slimline5 or SlimlineSWM5... You will have to be ordering specific international or live in an area that gets only SD locals from 119. They will only be installing Slimline3 and SlimlineSWM3's for almost all there customers. You are just a little ahead of this switch. Don't fret, you will get HD...

And by the way, DON"T buy an HR20 or any other Directv box off of ebay. Only by a new one from a retailer, or Directv. They are leased machines, and most people who get them off of ebay have had major issues getting them activated, if they were even able to.

And by the way, the HR20 is not old or out of fashion... It has the exact same functionality capabilities as the HR21's and HR22's...

NC? Maybe that is some way of referring to the new policy of a box not being able to be activated unless they can get signals off of all sats that the installed dish is supposed to be able to receive. That is something that is being implemented.


NC means what i stated in my post. No Cables included

[Davenlr]

If cost isn't the issue, buy the receiver at Best Buy, take it to a firends house that gets all 5 sats, get it set up and authorized, then take it home and plug it in. When they come out with the slimline3 in your area, ask them to come upgrade your dish, or hire/get a friend to install a HD dish now.

I've set up a couple "no LOS" dishes for friends around here, cuz Directv installers wouldn't do it. My own system uses two AT9 dishes due to 110/119 LOS problems. Directv refused to upgrade me too. Just did it myself like I always have.

[techrep]

Good to know, thanks for the info ;)

So many things get thrown around sometimes it is hard to determine the official info, which is why I was going off what Tom said in this case :)

It was correct at the time. Things seem to change slowly if we are paying attention but, if we look back a month or two and then compare that with where we are now; we end up seeing a bigger change.

K4SMX is always giving me a hard time for little errors. :lol:

[dak357]

Thanks for all the help folks! So, I'm wondering, maybe this is a dumb question, but is the HR2x backward compatible with the old Phase III or round dish? If it is, couldn't I just get an HR21 at BestBuy or someplace, activate it off my current dish setup, then do a dish swap later on when the SL3s are available? I can definitely try activating it at a friend's house if that scheme doesn't work.

I was hoping DTV's "free HD swap" was going to actually be free, but it looks like it's not in the cards for me...

BTW, about the NC thing, the installer did think "NC" was in regard to the activation stuff, but he did unpack one to show me the unit and it definitely had No Cables in the box! :-) (Makes way more sense than what he said.)

[Davenlr]

I have heard that new receivers won't authorize without all 5 sats, but that might only apply to installers getting them authorized.. The HR21/AM21 will work with your current dish. You just won't get any channels you don't already get. You could put a slimline 5 in place of your current dish and get the new HD channels if you can see 2 degree east and two degrees west of the main satellite. As others said, your new switch would handle the guide data.

[Grentz]

Thanks for all the help folks! So, I'm wondering, maybe this is a dumb question, but is the HR2x backward compatible with the old Phase III or round dish? If it is, couldn't I just get an HR21 at BestBuy or someplace, activate it off my current dish setup, then do a dish swap later on when the SL3s are available? I can definitely try activating it at a friend's house if that scheme doesn't work.

I was hoping DTV's "free HD swap" was going to actually be free, but it looks like it's not in the cards for me...

BTW, about the NC thing, the installer did think "NC" was in regard to the activation stuff, but he did unpack one to show me the unit and it definitely had No Cables in the box! :-) (Makes way more sense than what he said.)

Right now the units at Best Buy and such most likey do not have the installation verification so that would work.

The HR2x units should work with your current dish (you select it in the setup), but they will not get HD programming obviously.

[gdn]

I just had an HR20-700 replaced by an HR21-100. I was having problems with tuner 1 so D* replaced it under the protection plan. The receiver came in a very plain brown box and had the NC in the number - HR21NC-100. It had a manual, power cord and the card. Pretty simple - no other cables at all. I've heard that all new boxes will have the new restriction of having to see all satellites or they won't set up the first time.