Directv Tech fiasco with alignment

[studdad]

Hey Everyone,

With 99 coming on-line and 103 already out there, I had issues with my signal strength. I had the Directv people come out a few weeks ago to fine tune those two satellites (I was getting 60's/70's on 103, which I have never called about, and 40's to 70's on 99, with the majority in the 60 and low 71 range). The Directv people came and told me that they align using 101 and 119 and could do nothing about 99 or 103, and besides, nothing was ever going to be on 99 anyway. Since then I have learned they are full of crap, so I called Directv today to demand the previous people or someone who knows what the hell they are doing, come out and properly align my dish. Here is my conversation with Directv. I think you will find it very funny, and telling about what the hell is going on in Directv tech support:

The first CSR was very polite, understood my issue, and said they would set up an appointment to get the issue resolved, but had to to transfer me to tech support first. So I get transferred to tech support, and get someone with a major attitude problem who's answers showed she should not be working in Tech. Here is a synopsis of our conversation.

Tech: Directv, what is your phone number?
Me: (I didn't understand her Q) I'm sorry, what was that?
Tech: WHAT IS YOUR PHONE NUMBER (I am serious, she nearly screamed it).
Me: Gave phone number
Tech: What is your problem?
Me: (I described my situation)
Tech: Are you having a problem RIGHT NOW?
Me: No, but i have had rain fade and the new channels are coming on-line, and some are already on 99c, and I had people out who did not fix the issue, so I want them back out if they are capable of fixing it.
Tech: Why are you calling if you have no issue now?
Me: (I repeat what I just said).
Tech: There are no channels on 99 and wont be for some time.
Me: Yes there are, there is TNT, ABCF, and others, including several PPV channels.
Tech: Where did you get your information?
Me: From DBS Talker and other sources. My other sources for other information includes your own forum on your website.
Tech: (sighs) Whatever, I am not going to argue with you over this.
If you are getting signals in the 60's on HD channels and 70's on SD, you are fine.
Me: (I explain why she is incorrect, including her own forum on the directv website.)
Tech: There isn't even a 99c, there is only 99a and b.
Me: No, 99a and b are for people without a DVR, mine is 99c as I have an HD DVR.
Tech: Well they never tell us when they put up another satellite, they must have put up 99c after a and b.
Me: They are the same satellite, just in the 99 postition.
Tech: Well, the last satellite we put up was 101, and all your channels are on 101.
Me: No, I don't know when they put up 101, but it was there several years ago when I joined Directv, then last year they put up D10 which is 103c, and this year they put up D11, which is 99c.
Tech: Nevermind, I'm not going to argue with you, what do want me to do?
Me: Well, I expect for the people who came out last time to come out and fine tune my dish so I get signals at least in the 80's on 103 and 99. I would do it myself, but I don't have a meter, and besides they need to complete the job they came to do. If those people are unable to do the job, then I expect you to send out someone who can do the job, or, quite frankly, I will moving my business to Dish Network.
Tech: Let me get my book.

Then we set up a time for Saturday. Maybe it is just me, but I expect for installers to know how to properly align a dish, and I expect techs at Directv to know what the heck is going on in regards to their own satellites.....but then maybe I am expecting too much. Anyway, I will let you all know what happens after my Saturday appointment.

[dcowboy7]

brutal....good luck.

[studdad]

brutal....good luck.Thanks.

[K4SMX]

See the thread This is how directv hires CSRs (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=134526), which details the program in PA for staffing the tech support function for Protection Plan subscribers. Fortunately, at least one of them is a member here. Hope he or she spreads the word about DBSTalk.com to their associates....

[Kenkong586]

I've had a similar situation with an alignment. The tech, who was a very nice guy, just kept talking about 103 and how that's where all the HD is. I didn't feel like explaining it to him. Now I have my own personal case manager at Directv and a service call tomorrow in which I was promised a senior tech or supervisor must attend the service call. This should be fun :nono:

[Grentz]

I have found it works best, when I do have to talk to the CSRs, to just act sorta dumb and not try to be smart. Usually gets me further for some reason. For example when I called to order my AM21 I just asked that I wanted OTA on my HR21 and had heard a device came out to allow me to do so. The CSR happily informed me about the AM21 and one was ordered up within a few minutes ;)

But I have not called in very often either as I do most of the work myself. I have found some of Directv's CSRs to be lacking knowledge at times (even the CSR I talked to about the AM21 had to ask a supervisor first), but usually if you are nice they will get what you need eventually.

[studdad]

See the thread This is how directv hires CSRs (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1705429&posted=1#post1705429), which details the program in PA for staffing the tech support function for Protection Plan subscribers. Fortunately, at least one of them is a member here. Hope he or she spreads the word about DBSTalk.com to their associates....OMG, I never believe it if your thread didn't have proof. What are they thinking?

[studdad]

I've had a similar situation with an alignment. The tech, who was a very nice guy, just kept talking about 103 and how that's where all the HD is. I didn't feel like explaining it to him. Now I have my own personal case manager at Directv and a service call tomorrow in which I was promised a senior tech or supervisor must attend the service call. This should be fun :nono:lol, I know your feeling. I can just imagine the attitude the techs will have when come back to my place on Saturday, after basically telling Directv they were incompetent. But what are you going to do?? And if I get more "crap" about how signals in the 60's are fine, or that 99 wont have programming for many years, or any other b.s., I am just going to blow a gasket. I am the customer, not their trainer.

[TheRatPatrol]

lol, I know your feeling. I can just imagine the attitude the techs will have when come back to my place on Saturday, after basically telling Directv they were incompetent. But what are you going to do?? And if I get more "crap" about how signals in the 60's are fine, or that 99 wont have programming for many years, or any other b.s., I am just going to blow a gasket. I am the customer, not their trainer.
I just hope they have meters that can read the new satellites.

When they come over, show them on your TV the signal readings, using the signal meters on the receiver. Then maybe they'll understand. Well maybe.

[Davenlr]

If they don't believe 99 is in use, tune in ABCfamHD and then go put some black tape over the 99 LNB, and when it says searching for satellite, ask them which one its searching for, since 99 isn't in use :)

[mark40511]

These tech support people are working from home ????

[Grentz]

These tech support people are working from home ????

Some are, not all. Directv still has some HUGE call centers ;)

[pbg]

I had a somewhat similar, though not quite as brutal conversion with a tech the other day. I’m currently getting mostly 50’s and 60’s on 99. I called to see if there were any stations currently broadcasting from 99, and I was especially curious if when football starts if the Sunday Ticket channels where going to come from 99. - I wanted to make sure things were just exactly perfect for kickoff.

I was told that Sunday Ticket games would not be broadcasted from 99

I asked if anything was being broadcasted form 99 – he did not know.

I asked what they thought about my signal strength on 99. He responded he couldn’t tell because they (the techs) didn’t know the ‘test transponders’ yet for 99. I asked what that meant, and he explained that based on a sub’s zip code, they look at the strength of a particular transponder to decide how to proceed.

Is any of this true?

[Johnnie5000]

Maybe it is just me, but I expect for installers to know how to properly align a dish, and I expect techs at Directv to know what the heck is going on in regards to their own satellites.....but then maybe I am expecting too much.

Never ever ever call a CSR a tech, thats an insult to real Technicians. :nono2:

But you're right. The tech that came to your house should have known how to Dither your dish to peak the signal. It takes 4 minutes. And the CSR you talked to was a clueless jackass. Go up higher levels of tech support if you want someone who knows what they are doing and cross your fingers.

[flipptyfloppity]

I asked what they thought about my signal strength on 99. He responded he couldn’t tell because they (the techs) didn’t know the ‘test transponders’ yet for 99. I asked what that meant, and he explained that based on a sub’s zip code, they look at the strength of a particular transponder to decide how to proceed.

Is any of this true?

I believe that is true, although only for 99(s). 99(s) is spot beams, and so some transponders will be full strength in your area, some will be weak, and some will be 0. So they would have a table saying that in your zip code, the only 99(s) transponder you should care about the numbers for is, say, 1 or 4.

I don't think your location should matter much for 99(c), as those are supposed to cover the entire US.

[rahlquist]

Tech: Directv, what is your phone number?
Me: (I didn't understand her Q) I'm sorry, what was that?
Tech: WHAT IS YOUR PHONE NUMBER (I am serious, she nearly screamed it).
Me: Gave phone number
Tech: What is your problem?
Me: (I described my situation)
Tech: Are you having a problem RIGHT NOW?
Me: No, but i have had rain fade and the new channels are coming on-line, and some are already on 99c, and I had people out who did not fix the issue, so I want them back out if they are capable of fixing it.
Tech: Why are you calling if you have no issue now?
Me: (I repeat what I just said).
Tech: There are no channels on 99 and wont be for some time.
Me: Yes there are, there is TNT, ABCF, and others, including several PPV channels.
Tech: Where did you get your information?
Me: From DBS Talker and other sources. My other sources for other information includes your own forum on your website.
Tech: (sighs) Whatever, I am not going to argue with you over this.
If you are getting signals in the 60's on HD channels and 70's on SD, you are fine.
Me: (I explain why she is incorrect, including her own forum on the directv website.)
Tech: There isn't even a 99c, there is only 99a and b.
Me: No, 99a and b are for people without a DVR, mine is 99c as I have an HD DVR.
Tech: Well they never tell us when they put up another satellite, they must have put up 99c after a and b.
Me: They are the same satellite, just in the 99 postition.
Tech: Well, the last satellite we put up was 101, and all your channels are on 101.
Me: No, I don't know when they put up 101, but it was there several years ago when I joined Directv, then last year they put up D10 which is 103c, and this year they put up D11, which is 99c.
Tech: Nevermind, I'm not going to argue with you, what do want me to do?
Me: Well, I expect for the people who came out last time to come out and fine tune my dish so I get signals at least in the 80's on 103 and 99. I would do it myself, but I don't have a meter, and besides they need to complete the job they came to do. If those people are unable to do the job, then I expect you to send out someone who can do the job, or, quite frankly, I will moving my business to Dish Network.
Tech: Let me get my book.
.

Ummm wow. CSR like this one give the hard working ones a bad name. In the future if you ever talk to a person as poorly informed you should ask for their first name and their ID#. Then politely ask them to speak to their supervisor. If they refuse then explain to them you will be calling back to get to a supervisor.

Keep in mind too that even if some CSR and/or techs work from home, that doesnt mean youre talking to the village idiot. These types of work at home programs are only as good as the training and supervision each person gets.

[studdad]

If they don't believe 99 is in use, tune in ABCfamHD and then go put some black tape over the 99 LNB, and when it says searching for satellite, ask them which one its searching for, since 99 isn't in use :)lmao, good idea.

[studdad]

Never ever ever call a CSR a tech, thats an insult to real Technicians. :nono2:

But you're right. The tech that came to your house should have known how to Dither your dish to peak the signal. It takes 4 minutes. And the CSR you talked to was a clueless jackass. Go up higher levels of tech support if you want someone who knows what they are doing and cross your fingers. The first person I talked to was very nice and was the original CSR. She then sent me to Tech Support and the conversation in my post was supposedly from a Tech Representative. Yeah, if they screw up again I will take a look at their training video (saw it on AVS forum) and see if I can figure it out, i.e. Dithering and/or azimuth fine tuning. I decided not to attempt it at this time because I was a bit confused with the tech jargon. If I am not sure how to do it, then I will definately talk with some higher ups.

[studdad]

I just hope they have meters that can read the new satellites.

When they come over, show them on your TV the signal readings, using the signal meters on the receiver. Then maybe they'll understand. Well maybe.Right, that is what I plan on doing. It is my understanding that the meters do not show the new satellites. Basically, they get the highest signal possible on 101, then do several fine tuning steps to get good signals on 103 and 99. However, from the training video, they were still using the meter while doing the fine tuning,,,,,don't remember what exactly it was measuring.

[studdad]

for those who are wondering, here is a link to the site that has training videos for professional Directv installers. I was looking at segment 3, which is alignment.

http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/at9_install_videos.asp

[bigboyman2]

Ouch, I'm sorry 'bout that CSR. Really.....eugh. I don't like it when the technical dept isn;t trained like they used to be. Albeit, there's only a few instances where more refined knowlege is needed (average customer = not dbstalk-types). But still, they should know more info than just in that training course. I should know, I've gone through it. I get most of my niche knowledge from here, so I know how to service people who have different issues, or to explain it a little bit better on why something happening.

Hope everything goes well =D

[K4SMX]

..... I get most of my niche knowledge from here.....
And there's a lot of niches..... Quite a few of you Alabama DirecTV CSR's here, and it's always good to hear from you!

[dtrell]

i get readings in the 85-90 range on 99 and 103...and 95-100 on the ones the installers tune on...i would like to tweak the dish for 99 and 103 to get them into the 90s at least. someone on here said that the best way to tweak this is to adjust the azimuth slightly to make them better, that usually the horizontal and tilt settings are fine if 119 and 101 are good. is this correct? will tweaking the azimuth be enough?

[dshu82]

i get readings in the 85-90 range on 99 and 103...and 95-100 on the ones the installers tune on...i would like to tweak the dish for 99 and 103 to get them into the 90s at least. someone on here said that the best way to tweak this is to adjust the azimuth slightly to make them better, that usually the horizontal and tilt settings are fine if 119 and 101 are good. is this correct? will tweaking the azimuth be enough?

Can be azimuth, but when 103 came on a lot of people found is was a slight tweak to their elevation that fixed it.

Either way, mark you starting points with a Sharpie.......

[paulman182]

It was elevation with mine.

[dtrell]

Can be azimuth, but when 103 came on a lot of people found is was a slight tweak to their elevation that fixed it.

Either way, mark you starting points with a Sharpie.......

i thought thats what azimuth was...is azimuth left to right? if so, i was talking about elevation then. would you suggest making the dish a little higher or a little lower?

[DavidLyle]

I am in Phoenix, AZ and my readings are:

101 - 93
110 - 91
119 - 82
99a - 85
103b - 82

I was told by a tech - at my house - that those numbers were about as good as I could expect because of our location in the country.

Is this correct?

It seems like I should be able to get into the 90's for everything.

At least I do not have to worry about rain fade too often!

David

[studdad]

Ok, the Directv guy came today to adjust 99 and 103. I sat on the couch and watched the signal strength go up and down as he adjusted it. What I ended up with are signals ranging from the mid 70's to mid 80's with the majority around 77-82. Much better than I had before, but still not in that high 80's to 90's range. However, for whatever reason, I am not sure if my dish can reach those heights on 99 and 103. The reason I say this, is the numbers he ended up with were pretty much the peak numbers that I saw when he was adjusting, so I know whatever adjustment he was making, he had reached the peak for that adjustment. He said he just could not dither it any better than that. I asked him if Azimuth was adjusted, and he said yes that has to be adjusted too. Anyway, I assume I should be ok with these numbers, as I was pretty much ok with the 70's on 103 when that fired up. I will keep a close eye on it and see if any issues with rain fade, etc. occur, unless I am missing something here?

BTW: this guy seemed to be much more knowledgeable, and had a much better attitude. I hope I get him in the future if I have any issues.

[K4SMX]

Those'll have to do then, and they'll probably work fine for you. It's possible your dish may have been warped in shipping. Does it have any obvious dings in it? Another possibility is that you have the older AT-9 "sidecar" dish with Calamp LNB's. There are quite a few in the western US. A lot of those have signal strengths from the 99 and 103 Ka satellites that are 10-15 points less than other dish/LNB combo's.

[studdad]

Those'll have to do then, and they'll probably work fine for you. It's possible your dish may have been warped in shipping. Does it have any obvious dings in it? Another possibility is that you have the older AT-9 "sidecar" dish with Calamp LNB's. There are quite a few in the western US. A lot of those have signal strengths from the 99 and 103 Ka satellites that are 10-15 points less than other dish/LNB combo's.I will look into that. The only thing I know at present is that the information page on my HR20 says I have a slimline. Don't think there were any dings, or obvious warp on the dish, but I will take a look. Can location, i.e. Spokane, Washington, which is pretty far North in the U.S., have anything to do with it?

[K4SMX]

.....Can location, i.e. Spokane, Washington, which is pretty far North in the U.S., have anything to do with it?
I don't think that's you're problem:

North American DirecTV Coverage Map (http://www.track-it-tv.com/north-american-directv-map.aspx)

[studdad]

I don't think that's you're problem:

North American DirecTV Coverage Map (http://www.track-it-tv.com/north-american-directv-map.aspx)lol, I guess not. Anyway, my info screen says slimline-5 if that means anything to you in regards to the type of dish.

[K4SMX]

lol, I guess not. Anyway, my info screen says slimline-5 if that means anything to you in regards to the type of dish.
The manufacturer's label is on the inside face of the LNB unit out at the end of the dish support arm..

[TheRatPatrol]

Those'll have to do then, and they'll probably work fine for you. It's possible your dish may have been warped in shipping. Does it have any obvious dings in it? Another possibility is that you have the older AT-9 "sidecar" dish with Calamp LNB's. There are quite a few in the western US. A lot of those have signal strengths from the 99 and 103 Ka satellites that are 10-15 points less than other dish/LNB combo's.
Is there really any way to tell this just by looking at it? Or taking measurements, or using a level, or a piece of string? ;) :)

Seriously though, is there?

[Ernie]

lol, I guess not. Anyway, my info screen says slimline-5 if that means anything to you in regards to the type of dish.

Doesn't mean much. My HR20-100 misidentifies my sidecar as a slimline. I noticed it after the 0x254 firmware release, but it could have been in the previous release as well. You have to look at the dish.


Ernie

[studdad]

Doesn't mean much. My HR20-100 misidentifies my sidecar as a slimline. I noticed it after the 0x254 firmware release, but it could have been in the previous release as well. You have to look at the dish.


Ernie
Yeah, as soon as I get a chance I am going to get up on the roof and take a look.

[K4SMX]

Is there really any way to tell this just by looking at it? Or taking measurements, or using a level, or a piece of string? ;) :)

Seriously though, is there?
You can tell a lot by looking across a couple of yard sticks laid across either side of the face of the dish.

[LonnieJBozeman]

So here is the deal folks. There is an actual formula that the engineers over at DirecTV have installers follow. Its called Fine Tuning or "Dithering". I used to work for Connect Television, which is a HSP for DTV(do the research) the people on the phone don't know ****. I have heard mention of meters - 1. Bird dog is the meter that most techs are equipped with. It will not read the 103 or 99 but if you follow the formula using the 101 as your guide and then using the 119 you will always hit the 99 and cross the 103 evenly. If they are using a super buddy meter, which they are not because of the cost, then they can see the 103. However, to give these guys to many options is to over stimulate there little hammer swinging brains. The truth of the situation is HSP's will hire whom ever they can get to bas a background check and never who has the most still. I was pretty high up in DTV's most celebrity/VIP concentrated are, and frankly it was horrible to have to work with half the idiots there. You do not NEED to follow the formula - if you can think about what you are doing.

You guys are putting way to much thought into this whole thing. Anything about 65 - 70 on most transponders will deliver your signal. Arguing with $9.00 an hour CSR's does not make you a tuff guy. You are smarter than them or you would be doing there job. However -- its just TV guys calm down.

[TheRatPatrol]

You can tell a lot by looking across a couple of yard sticks laid across either side of the face of the dish.
I know this will be hard to explain, but what exactly do you look for when you lay the yard sticks across the face of the dish? I wish we could get some pictures on here of this.

Thanks again, you've been a big help on here!

[K4SMX]

If you look from the side of the dish while holding one yard stick steady, vertically oriented on one side of the LNB support arm, and then slowly slide the other yardstick toward the outside of the dish, you should be able to observe whether they stay parallel. Then reverse the process, looking from the other side. This would be impractical unless the dish was on a pole mount or you take the dish down to the ground, and it really takes two people.

The warped dishes I've seen also showed obvious shipping damage to the edges, but I suppose it's possible for a dish to be warped slightly without any obvious signs of damage. Likely to be more important in studdad's case is the answer to the dish type/LNB type question....

[dtrell]

So here is the deal folks. There is an actual formula that the engineers over at DirecTV have installers follow. Its called Fine Tuning or "Dithering". I used to work for Connect Television, which is a HSP for DTV(do the research) the people on the phone don't know ****. I have heard mention of meters - 1. Bird dog is the meter that most techs are equipped with. It will not read the 103 or 99 but if you follow the formula using the 101 as your guide and then using the 119 you will always hit the 99 and cross the 103 evenly. If they are using a super buddy meter, which they are not because of the cost, then they can see the 103. However, to give these guys to many options is to over stimulate there little hammer swinging brains. The truth of the situation is HSP's will hire whom ever they can get to bas a background check and never who has the most still. I was pretty high up in DTV's most celebrity/VIP concentrated are, and frankly it was horrible to have to work with half the idiots there. You do not NEED to follow the formula - if you can think about what you are doing.

You guys are putting way to much thought into this whole thing. Anything about 65 - 70 on most transponders will deliver your signal. Arguing with $9.00 an hour CSR's does not make you a tuff guy. You are smarter than them or you would be doing there job. However -- its just TV guys calm down.

my installer dithered mine perfectly on the 101 and 119..i had 92-100 on all tps....however my signals on 99 and 103 werent that good...mostly 77-90....a little tweaking on m part now has the 99 and 103 up to 88-96..and should help with rain fade...so they really need to get these guys meters that can tweak the 99 and 103 as they are the most important for people that only care about HD.

[studdad]

The manufacturer's label is on the inside face of the LNB unit out at the end of the dish support arm..Finally got up on the roof. I have a Calamp, model 151647. It also had the lot number, but don't know if that is important. I read up a little on this and it sounds like the Calamp may be a little weaker than the WNC in regards to picking up signals, so I assume that is part of the problem. So, should I just go with it, or do you or Dtrell have any suggestions? Like I said, the guy dithered it the best he could, so what could I do to possibly make a difference?

Edit: one other thing. I noticed something strange with my signals also. Often times when I look at 99c, the first two transponders on tuner1 will be in the range of 52, 18 (that is what I just saw today) and the rest will be in the 70s/80s. Then I will switch to tuner2 right away, and the first two will be in the range of 75, 85. Switch back to one, and still at those low values. Sometimes I will get this on Transponder 2 on 103c also. Any thoughts on that? I thought it might be that they are working on that transponder, but if that were the case, I would think the signals would be roughly the same on both tuners.

[K4SMX]

Finally got up on the roof. I have a Calamp, model 151647.....
That's what I figured. Well, it's sort of up to you. If you want to get a new LNB for it on your own dime, you'll have to buy a whole new dish. But LNB replacement is easy, as long as you can safely reach the end of the LNB support arm. Remove and replace two screws and disconnect and re-connect four cables.

It is somewhat troubling that you've got those low signals on a couple of tp's. You should double check them with the Signal Meters selection under View Signal Strength. If they really are down in the 50's, and perhaps if you were to determine what channels are on those tp's here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1191863&postcount=2), you'd have a leg to stand on when you asked DirecTV for a free replacement because of poor reception on those particular channels.

[studdad]

That's what I figured. Well, it's sort of up to you. If you want to get a new LNB for it on your own dime, you'll have to buy a whole new dish. But LNB replacement is easy, as long as you can safely reach the end of the LNB support arm. Remove and replace two screws and disconnect and re-connect four cables.

It is somewhat troubling that you've got those low signals on a couple of tp's. You should double check them with the Signal Meters selection under View Signal Strength. If they really are down in the 50's, and perhaps if you were to determine what channels are on those tp's here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1191863&postcount=2), you'd have a leg to stand on when you asked DirecTV for a free replacement because of poor reception on those particular channels.Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it. So in order to get a new LNB, I have to buy the whole dish?? I will probably just see how things go this Winter, and if not too many issues, then just not worry about it.

[K4SMX]

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it. So in order to get a new LNB, I have to buy the whole dish?? I will probably just see how things go this Winter, and if not too many issues, then just not worry about it.
Well maybe not have to buy a whole new dish: you either a) talk your way into a free one from DirecTV because of specific and articulable issues, or b) buy the whole dish, because the only other way to get an LNB is either buying on eBay, which I wouldn't recommend for this particular item, or arranging for one to fall off a passing DirecTV truck, if you get my drift. :)