RG 59 OK?

[ChipW]

I am in the process of adding an SWM to go along with my current WB68 - my plan is to split the feeds from the LNB to both the SWM and the WB68. I had ordered a package of 4 high frequency splitters and 8 short coax cables from Weaknees. Well, my package arrived today and the cables that they provided are 6 foot sections of RG59 - I was expecting to get RG6 cables. In addition, some of the cables have crimped fittings instead of compression fittings.

When I emailed Weaknees, they informed me that they have been providing people with these cables for quite a while and have not had any complaints of them not working.

I know that most people recommend only using RG6 for Directv setups - but I also have heard good things about Weaknees and would think that their advice would be accurate.

Do you think I will have problems if I use the RG59 cables to split my signal? If so, I might make a trip to Fry's before starting the install to buy some compression fittings to make my own cables.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Johnnie5000]

I am in the process of adding an SWM to go along with my current WB68 - my plan is to split the feeds from the LNB to both the SWM and the WB68. I had ordered a package of 4 high frequency splitters and 8 short coax cables from Weaknees. Well, my package arrived today and the cables that they provided are 6 foot sections of RG59 - I was expecting to get RG6 cables. In addition, some of the cables have crimped fittings instead of compression fittings.

When I emailed Weaknees, they informed me that they have been providing people with these cables for quite a while and have not had any complaints of them not working.

I know that most people recommend only using RG6 for Directv setups - but I also have heard good things about Weaknees and would think that their advice would be accurate.

Do you think I will have problems if I use the RG59 cables to split my signal? If so, I might make a trip to Fry's before starting the install to buy some compression fittings to make my own cables.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

You won't have immediate problems. Could be a day, could be a year, but you will have problems.

[flipptyfloppity]

Over short distances, RG59 will work fine. You really should use RG6, but if you install these, you probably won't see any problems at all.

[Mertzen]

It can work for a week or a year. Hard to say.
Shameless plug but PM me since I can give you a nice deal on some D* approved RG6 jumpers.

[ironwood]

What the hell is Weaknees? Order from Solid Signal or other respectable sources next time.

[Teronzhul]

RG59 over short distances will likely work fine.

[2dogz]

What the hell is Weaknees? Order from Solid Signal or other respectable sources next time.

Weaknees is a company whose business was providing disk repair and upgrades for Tivo and Directivo users with, well, weaknees, afraid to do it themselves. Prices were really high. Guess they need a new niche. Supplying RG59 anything to D* applications is a dumb move on their part, only inserts a weak link in the connection between dish and receiver. New name maybe "Weaklink".

[Thaedron]

I agree that RG59 over short distances will most likely work fine.

However, in the way that you are planning to use these cables, I would not use RG59. Splitting any cable run will result in some signal loss. Using RG59 instead of RG6 will result in slightly greater signal loss. Lots of smallish loss starts to add up.

Note, that the weaknees reponse is that "they haven't received and reports of issues" and NOT "the cables are recommended or otherwise approved for use in a DirecTV system". IMO their response is the nail in the coffin for those cables.

[techrep]

What are we talking about here, 3' cables? I would not think that these will cause a problem but, with that said, you should take Mertzen up on his offer. It will give you some cheap peace of mind.

[ChipW]

Thank you everyone. I've purchased some RG6 jumpers from Mertzen that I plan to use instead of the RG59 cables that Weaknees sold me.

[joe diamond]

The story I got on the rg59 cable was that per 1000 ft it would show a significant signal loss below thirty degrees. So cable companies switched to rg6 as their systems were upgraded over time. By the time DTV came along any rg59 encountered could be twenty years old and so it was banned as a prudent move.

I have never used it with any HD eq but that is where the problems ar supposed to come from. Significant cable runs in older houses with rg59 prewire is supposed to dump the HD.

Another urban myth.

Joe

[AntAltMike]

You lose more signal over 6 feet of RG-6 than you do over 4 feet of RG-59, so are you going to move your components closer together to offset that loss. Doubtful.

The DC voltage drop incurred when using RG-59 is greater because the center conductor is smaller gauge, but over these lengths, the difference would be in the hundredths of a volt. One reliability benefit of using RG-6 is that because the center conductor of RG-59 is smaller, it doesn't press as tightly against the seizure "mechanisms" of the female "F" ports that it plugs into.

DirecTV issues simple instructions to its tens or hundreds of thousands of installers that can readily be implemented in its millions of installations. Mandating RG-6 simply tends to "goof-proof" installations, and, as joe diamond said, almost any RG-59 incurred in an existing installation is very old, and on top of that, a lot of old RG-59 has just a braid outer conductor with no foil shielding, or foil with only drain wires instead of braid, and it may even have a hidden splice in it that used the old crimp connectors with the 1/8" separate rings. Prohibiting the use of RG-59 is a useful and practical but arbitrary rule. You can find nice, tri-shielded RG-59 used in million dollar headends.

[Grentz]

Weaknees is a company whose business was providing disk repair and upgrades for Tivo and Directivo users with, well, weaknees, afraid to do it themselves. Prices were really high. Guess they need a new niche. Supplying RG59 anything to D* applications is a dumb move on their part, only inserts a weak link in the connection between dish and receiver. New name maybe "Weaklink".

Indeed, and their prices were high but to their credit they did have very good Customer Service.

[Johnnie5000]

Then there's the whole sweep testing issue. Almost all rg59 is swept tested to 1000mHz. Most RG6 is swept tested to 2.25gHz or 3gHz.
DirecTV's core programming uses the frequency range of 950-1450 mHz (18" Dish). SWMs uses frequencies for channel assignments anywhere between 900mHz and 2150mHz. wb68's use a frequency range of 250-2150mHz.

Basic math should tell you RG59 + DirecTV = Fail.

[flipptyfloppity]

Then there's the whole sweep testing issue. Almost all rg59 is swept tested to 1000mHz. Most RG6 is swept tested to 2.25gHz or 3gHz.
DirecTV's core programming uses the frequency range of 950-1450 mHz (18" Dish). SWMs uses frequencies for channel assignments anywhere between 900mHz and 2150mHz. wb68's use a frequency range of 250-2150mHz.

Basic math should tell you RG59 + DirecTV = Fail.

Using sweep testing like that is misleading.

Coax is rated at x dB signal lost @ y MHz per z length of cable (more signal is lost at higher frequencies).

As the length of the cable used drops to zero, the loss drops to zero, essentially regardless of the rating.

As such, over short distances (like a few feet), you can usually use RG59 without problems. For example, many people use RG59 from their wall place to their receiver box.

I'm not saying I recommend using RG59, but if you have to short lengths of it, it'll probably work just fine.

[Grentz]

Wasn't the SWM designed to somewhat work on RG59 for old wiring or am I mistaken? Not saying it would be ideal, but saying it would possibly work so you could feed it into the current OTA/Cable wiring in a home.

[sattec]

Ok, I got a plan, take a 500 foot roll of high grade 59 and connect the roll to a swm and send the signal thru, read it on the end and check the loss? whatcha guys think? I have an mdu that has very tight tubes and four 59's will go in the tubes but 4 rg-6's won't, the fathest run is no more than 140 ft then it can go back into rg-6 for the last 80 ft....so the test is, 500 ft no breaks in the line will "act like" 140 ft of rg-59 with 80 ft of rg-6 and three splitters inline on the end.

[LonnieJBozeman]

The reality of it is that with that short of jumpers the DB loss wont be great enough to effect the overall system. However, SWM modules do get hot! Trust me I service J Boxes with up to 10 of them. If you system starts getting pix, 771 or other wierd signs it may be your swm module over heating and sending to much heat through the 56, in other words - if your swm module over heats and can burn shorts into it.

I use 56 jumpers all day on MFH2 and MFH1 systems and rarley have problems. I even use them in my own house.

[flipptyfloppity]

Ok, I got a plan, take a 500 foot roll of high grade 59 and connect the roll to a swm and send the signal thru, read it on the end and check the loss? whatcha guys think? I have an mdu that has very tight tubes and four 59's will go in the tubes but 4 rg-6's won't, the fathest run is no more than 140 ft then it can go back into rg-6 for the last 80 ft....so the test is, 500 ft no breaks in the line will "act like" 140 ft of rg-59 with 80 ft of rg-6 and three splitters inline on the end.

You should be able to see signal loss on the "SWM" page on "satellite strength" (a misnomer on this page). As you go to higher slots, you will have lower signal strength, even with RG6. Take a look and see what the results are for 6 and for 59.

[sattec]

I'm worried about voltage loss at long distances on 59 now...

[AntAltMike]

I don't have a coax typical loss chart in front of me, but I'd expect that RG59 loses maybe 3 to 4 more dB per 100 feet at 1800 MHz than does RG-6, so sattec's 140 feet of RG-59 will lose maybe 5 dB more than 140 feet of RG-6. In other words, it loses about what 200 feet of RG-6 would, so with another 80 feet of RG-6, you would be safe with no splitters because others here have gone 400 feet through RG-6 without splitters, but the splitters will lose at least 4 dB per 2=way split at 1,800 MHz and possibly closer to 5dB, so that makes you borderline.

Can you fit 4 RG-6 plenum wires in the conduit? If not, then you would be well advised to use Sonora's SWM compatible line extenders with 2.3 MHz return paths, and you probably should insert the SWM power at the SWM end, rather than near the receiver end, just to play it safe,

[ChipW]

I just wanted to give Mertzen a nice plug. I took him up on his offer to make some custom cables to replace the chintzy RG59 that I had previously purchased. Not only did he charge me a very reasonable price (and I mean VERY reasonable), he also shipped them priority mail at no additional charge. I paid by Paypal on Thursday and I received my cables this morning. He even through in some nice cable clips to keep my setup looking neat.

I would highly recommend contacting him if you need to buy coax cables. Based on my transaction with him, you can't go wrong.

[Mertzen]

Thanks, ChipW. Glad you liked the warez :D