New Install: all channels have horizontal lines

[Rox]

Hello,
I am new to this forum and new to DirecTV. I hope you can help.
I made the switch a week ago to DirecTV from Comcast cable. DirecTV install is another story in itself that I might relay later if I can’t resolve the current problems of install and TV reception. I am wondering if I made a big mistake making the transfer.
I now have horizontal lines that are noticeable in the darker colors on the screen. I did not have this with Comcast. I had a digital/analog converter from Comcast the picture was great. The DirecTV supervisor told me the lines are present because I do not have a digital TV. He said I will get use to the lines, when I get an HDTV the picture will be beautiful! Well I am not sure when that will happen. I want a good picture now.
I have a Mitsubishi 40” CRT analog TV. I got the DVR - R15-100 with install. The installer used the RF Coaxial connection not the S-Video on my TV. Is this a possible reason for the lines?
I was initially excited about the switch to DirecTV but now I am thinking about canceling because I will not be giving up anything. Any information on possible cause or fix would be appreciated.
Thank you

[tcusta00]

Sounds like a ground issue to me but an installer will undoubtedly come along to help you further.

You can always try switching to an S-Video cable to see if that eliminates your lines. You shouldn't have to accept that though - the supervisor is wrong.

[Mertzen]

Yeah, coax is the lowest possible quality. Use RCA or better.

[Rox]

tcysta00 thank you,
Would you please explain ground issue.

[Mertzen]

Installers always dread installs where we have to use coax to hook up the TV with coax afraid of customer calling in. But with plenty of TVs still out there with only one RCA [ most of the times used for DVD] it happens more then you'd think.

[veryoldschool]

tcysta00 thank you,
Would you please explain ground issue.
The dish/receiver is grounded. Your TV is connected to the receiver with an analog cable [which has a ground].
What's happening is your TV is grounding [60 cycles] through your connection the receiver, since it now is a better ground than what the TV has.
If you could use a digital connection, while it would still be the ground, it wouldn't show the [analog] 60 cycles, since it's digital.

Try a search for "ground loops" either here or google, and you can find out more.
Thay can be tough to find.

[lucky13]

Also check to see if your coax connections to the DirecTV receiver are very near to (almost touching) any other coax--another DirecTV box, OTA cables, old VCR, DVD.

If so, moving the cables apart could solve the problem.

[Rox]

I guess I should tell you more about the bad install experience. Two men installed the dish and DVR on Tuesday August 26, 2008. They used the RF Coaxial connection. I know S-Video gives better picture quality than RF Coaxial does. I also have A/V (RCA) connections on my television. They are also better than RF Coaxial but not as good as S-Video. I assumed since they are professional installers that they would know how to do this. I could have told them the difference between the three or actually four ways of bringing the signal from the DVR to my TV. Digital optical is an option too but I do not have that connection on my TV.
They did not test everything on the DVR either. I had to make a call to a technician to figure out why I could not watch a program on a different channel than the one I was recording to DVR. I had to reset… test…
I looked at the back of the house after they left and found out they put the cable from the dish inside the rain gutter. the cables where tucked inside my LeafGuard rain gutters. I took pictures of this, I wish I could include them. This is clearly not acceptable. The cables need to come out. What a substandard job.
I had a supervisor from DirectSat USA out here Saturday morning to address the issues I have (I have more…) He set Wednesday at 8:00 am for a crew to come out and make things right. They never showed up! He of course had an excuse and apologized. He wants to schedule another time. I am at the point of having him take everything off the roof and put things back to the way it was.
I am capable of moving cables on the TV/DVR but this should have been done right the first time. I was initially excited about the switch to DirecTV but now I am thinking about canceling because I will not be giving up anything. I think I might have made the wrong choice unless the nice informative people here can convince me to give it another try.

[Mertzen]

Digital optical is an option too but I do not have that connection on my TV.
Digital optical is only for audio but that's besides the point. They use a connection that works, Maybe not to your liking but hooking up RCA or SVideo is realy not all to hard.


This is clearly not acceptable. The cables need to come out. What a substandard job.Routing cable through a gutter is acceptable and gets done on plenty of jobs every day. If you wanted them not to do so you could have communicated this with the technician.
I am not going to make excuses for these techs and from the sound of it it could have been done better.


I think I might have made the wrong choice unless the nice informative people here can convince me to give it another try.Insist on a lead tech or tech supervisor to come over. Make a list of all you see wrong with the job and be involved. If you want everything your way you'll need to be there every step.

[lucky13]

I am capable of moving cables on the TV/DVR but this should have been done right the first time. I was initially excited about the switch to DirecTV but now I am thinking about canceling because I will not be giving up anything. I think I might have made the wrong choice unless the nice informative people here can convince me to give it another try.

I have had varied experiences with installers and technicians.
It's indeed frustrating when you realize that you know more about their product than do the people sent to service it.

I wish I could promise that your setup will be fixed correctly on the next visit. I am pretty sure that, once it's set up properly, you'll be glad you waited to get it done right.

In the meantime, you'll get plenty of support and advice here.

[Rox]

I am sorry for all the questions but if I continue with DirecTV I want it done right. I have read some of the info here about grounding. How do I know if they grounded the dish?
Can I send pictures to show what was done on the install?
Thank you

[Mertzen]

I am sorry for all the questions but if I continue with DirecTV I want it done right. I have read some of the info here about grounding. How do I know if they grounded the dish? Somewhere there should be a ground block with wires and ground coming from the ODU aka dish and wires to the boxes and to the house ground.

http://www.abmproducts.com/products/images/groundblock-2ghz-double.jpg



Can I send pictures to show what was done on the install?
Thank you Yes, after posting 5 posts. Try to make the pics not too large.

[Rox]

I went outside to look for the ground block. I opened the box on the side of the house and it appears to me that they did ground it. I will send some pictures next post.
Thank you

[Rox]

I went outside to look for the ground block. I opened the box on the side of the house and it appears to me that they did ground it. I will send some pictures next post.
Thank you

http://images.dbstalk.com/attach/jpg.gif
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This is a picture that I took of inside the box where all the cable come together. Is that the ground block?

[Mertzen]

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This is a picture that I took of inside the box where all the cable come together. Is that the ground block?

Yes indeed. Kinda hard to see and seems like somewhat sloppy work but I think it is grounded as long as the green wire goes to the correct house ground.

[tcusta00]

It's good that your system is grounded, but that's not the type of ground problem I was referring to. I was alluding more to was VOS said in post 6 above. Check out this page:

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/video_isolation.html

And you'll understand bit more about it.

As stated above, try to connect the receiver via something other than coax to see if that eliminates the problem. If not, try maybe plugging your TV and receiver into different power strips. Or even the same power strip. It's difficult to isolate problems like this so you have to troubleshoot.

Good luck - let us know how it works out.

[Rox]

Yes indeed. Kinda hard to see and seems like somewhat sloppy work but I think it is grounded as long as the green wire goes to the correct house ground.

OK, I think this shows it.

[Rox]

It's good that your system is grounded, but that's not the type of ground problem I was referring to. I was alluding more to was VOS said in post 6 above. Check out this page:

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/video_isolation.html

And you'll understand bit more about it.

As stated above, try to connect the receiver via something other than coax to see if that eliminates the problem. If not, try maybe plugging your TV and receiver into different power strips. Or even the same power strip. It's difficult to isolate problems like this so you have to troubleshoot.

Good luck - let us know how it works out.

Thank you for the link. Mine isn't that bad but I do understand what you are getting at. I will tackle the problem and see what I can do. I will let you know what the out come is.

[Mertzen]

OK, I think this shows it.

All clear there. I would however seal the holes on both sides where it enters the enclosure to stop moisture flowing in.

[tcusta00]

OK, I think this shows it.

This could also be the source of your interference... your sat feeds are within inches (if not touching) your house's 220 line - not once, but twice. I'm no expert, but if you're still having trouble with interference after you check the above suggested things, you may want to pull those cables away from your 220 to see if that helps.

[Mertzen]

This could also be the source of your interference... your sat feeds are within inches (if not touching) your house's 220 line - not once, but twice. I'm no expert, but if you're still having trouble with interference after you check the above suggested things, you may want to pull those cables away from your 220 to see if that helps.
It is indeed a QC fail. But barely any techs know it. But seen plenty of it and never caused trouble.

[Rox]

Digital optical is only for audio but that's besides the point. They use a connection that works, Maybe not to your liking but hooking up RCA or SVideo is realy not all to hard.


Routing cable through a gutter is acceptable and gets done on plenty of jobs every day. If you wanted them not to do so you could have communicated this with the technician.
I am not going to make excuses for these techs and from the sound of it it could have been done better.


http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15496&stc=1&d=1220559133
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Insist on a lead tech or tech supervisor to come over. Make a list of all you see wrong with the job and be involved. If you want everything your way you'll need to be there every step.

I did communicate with the tech and he said he was going to put it under the gutter not inside. I even talked to a building inspector for my city and he thought it was strange and not a good idea to put it inside the gutter, even though it is low voltage. I guess I am wondering the why it is acceptable. It does not make sense to me.
I was told where the cables would go not where I would like them to go. I wanted them to follow the same route as the other cable. This would have been under the rock along the house. He wanted to put it along the underside of the redwood and above the windows. I agreed to this but I wished now I would have stuck to my plan.
I was told where the dish was going to go. I wanted it closer to the deck it made more sense visually and looking to the future growth of trees it makes sense to have it farther away. There are many trees around, so putting it by the deck would have been better I thought. The trees on the opposite end of the house would not interfere with the signal in the future. The installer remarked that it would take a long time for the trees to grow so we will put it above the window. If I would have discovered this wonderful site before the install perhaps I could have found out the best place. The dish would have looked better by the deck and it would be easier to access it.
I know it is hard to make judgments based on all this but I expect professionals to install. These two men where far from professional. I value the information I am getting here. In hindsight from the way they looked and acted I should have told them to take a hike. I guess the DirectSat USA supervisor did.
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[Rox]

I can't keep up with you people! I guess I will have to type faster. Great info

[Johnnie5000]

I now have horizontal lines that are noticeable in the darker colors on the screen. I did not have this with Comcast. I had a digital/analog converter from Comcast the picture was great. The DirecTV supervisor told me the lines are present because I do not have a digital TV.
Here's my two cents on the problem, since no one else has advised this: There is a little switch on the back of your r15 and standard receivers that switches the coax output between channel 3 and channel 4. Now see what the switch is set to. Remember this. Now, if you have a local channel 3 the output needs to be set to 4 because, in laymans terms, your channel 3 will bleed into coax going to your TV and cause horizontal lines across your screen. Same applies if you have a local channel 4, the box & tv need to be set to channel 3.

The installer used the RF Coaxial connection not the S-Video on my TV.
Techs aren't issued s-video cables anymore, DTV stopped that about a month or two ago.

This could also be the source of your interference... your sat feeds are within inches (if not touching) your house's 220 line - not once, but twice. I'm no expert, but if you're still having trouble with interference after you check the above suggested things, you may want to pull those cables away from your 220 to see if that helps.
I've seen that cause pixelation, but not lines in the screen. Could be on to something though if its not a 3/4 issue.


Routing cable through a gutter is acceptable and gets done on plenty of jobs every day. If you wanted them not to do so you could have communicated this with the technician.

Did that twice today actually.

[Mertzen]

Did that twice today actually.
Quick, easy and out of the way. :D

[Johnnie5000]

Quick, easy and out of the way. :D I usually tell people they're free gutter guards :lol: But if done properly they are the quickest and cleanest way to get cable across a rooftop.

[Mertzen]

I usually tell people they're free gutter guards :lol:
I don't 'cause I'll end up cleaning their gutters.:lol: :nono:

[Rox]

I want the best way. Not the quickest. I am not sure what you mean by cleanest. Does that mean best way? How would you do it on your home?

[Mertzen]

I want the best way. Not the quickest. I am not sure what you mean by cleanest. Does that mean best way? How would you do it on your home?
On top of the gutters. Most people are concerned not seeing wires. The gutters are the best way for this.

[Rox]

Also check to see if your coax connections to the DirecTV receiver are very near to (almost touching) any other coax--another DirecTV box, OTA cables, old VCR, DVD.

If so, moving the cables apart could solve the problem.
The pictures show the coax double cable they installed. It is together after the separation from the wall and again when it goes into the receiver. Should I separate that cable?
I only have one TV connected. I do have a Sony VCR/DVD recorder that was probably messed up on install that I need to check. Every time a Comcast person would come to do something I would also have to redo the cabling. I assume this is the same!

[veryoldschool]

The pictures show the coax double cable they installed. It is together after the separation from the wall and again when it goes into the receiver. Should I separate that cable?
I only have one TV connected. I do have a Sony VCR/DVD recorder that was probably messed up on install that I need to check. Every time a Comcast person would come to do something I would also have to redo the cabling. I assume this is the same!
Two coax running that close isn't a problem, since they're shielded. 60 cycles would be another story.
As to you "Comcast", it sounds more like a case of loose/bad connectors.

[Rox]

I just also noticed on the screen that it went blank, then part of it came on pixelization, then went off kept on doing this for 30 sec then started again.... It did this morning also. What is causing this?

[Rox]

Here's my two cents on the problem, since no one else has advised this: There is a little switch on the back of your r15 and standard receivers that switches the coax output between channel 3 and channel 4. Now see what the switch is set to. Remember this. Now, if you have a local channel 3 the output needs to be set to 4 because, in laymans terms, your channel 3 will bleed into coax going to your TV and cause horizontal lines across your screen. Same applies if you have a local channel 4, the box & tv need to be set to channel 3.


I checked on the back and it is set to 4. We have a local channel 4. I switched it to 3 and the screen was completely snow and no picture. I switched it back to 4.

[Johnnie5000]

I checked on the back and it is set to 4. We have a local channel 4. I switched it to 3 and the screen was completely snow and no picture. I switched it back to 4.

Change the channel on the tv itself to along with the switch on the tv. Has to be done on both or it defeats the whole point of doing it. Try again.

[texasbrit]

Change the channel on the tv itself to along with the switch on the tv. Has to be done on both or it defeats the whole point of doing it. Try again.

I think you are like me, sometimes the typing is not directly connected to the brain!:lol: :lol:

I assume you meant to say that the TV and the R15 both have to be set to the same channel, 3 or 4. And if there is a local channel 4 then they have to be set to 3, to avoid what seems to be adjacent channel interference.
But using s-video should solve the problem anyway.

[Johnnie5000]

I think you are like me, sometimes the typing is not directly connected to the brain!:lol: :lol:

I assume you meant to say that the TV and the R15 both have to be set to the same channel, 3 or 4. And if there is a local channel 4 then they have to be set to 3, to avoid what seems to be adjacent channel interference.
But using s-video should solve the problem anyway.
Yeah that. :lol: Interference that comes in the form of horizontal lines 95% of the time.

[Ext 721]

1: switch to RCA or S-video cables.Problem should be solved.

2: most trouble like this on a standard RF cable* is RF interference, often due to a nearby source of channel 3 or channel 4 interference. If there is a ch3 or ch4 in the area, switch to the other one. Heck, if there's a channel 2, use 4...and if there's a channel 5, use 3!

Check actual frequency assignments at www.antennaweb.org. Channel 46 might use the old channel 3 frequency for 46-2




----
*(nicknamed co-ax because it is a single coaxial cable, whereas RCA/component cables are multuiple coaxial cables in a noncoaxial bundle)

[joe diamond]

The basic installation guide makes no mention of attaching anything. Ya try to be neat as a craftsmanship issue but the same office that listens to customer complaints calls techs for updates on work........needs ETAs on when the next job will be done.

I personally have grown old sitting on hold trying to reach their call center. Everything takes time.........right now there is more emphasis on do it correctly because there has been so much quick and dirty jobs in the past.

But I digress.

Joe

[ironwood]

All the new basic receivers model D12 have a lot of interference through coax connection to the point that one cant call Directv "100% clear digital picture" anymore. Educational channel 201 recommends RCA over coax now............the only problem how do you connect RCA to an old TV that doesnt have RCA input?

[veryoldschool]

All the new basic receivers model D12 have a lot of interference through coax connection to the point that one cant call Directv "100% clear digital picture" anymore. Educational channel 201 recommends RCA over coax now............the only problem how do you connect RCA to an old TV that doesnt have RCA input?
Haven't RCA inputs been on TVs for over 20 years? [or is it "just mine"?]

[RobertE]

All the new basic receivers model D12 have a lot of interference through coax connection to the point that one cant call Directv "100% clear digital picture" anymore. Educational channel 201 recommends RCA over coax now............the only problem how do you connect RCA to an old TV that doesnt have RCA input?

The problem with some of the D12s is that it puts out too hot of a RF signal, overdriving the tuner in the TV. In a lot of cases adding that splitter you just took out from the cable conversion, will drop it down to a level the TV can deal with. Not eloquent by any means, but it does work.

[Mertzen]

Haven't RCA inputs been on TVs for over 20 years? [or is it "just mine"?]

They have, but plenty of times it is used by the RCA only DVD / PS2 / Etc.



If so, moving the cables apart could solve the problem.
The pictures show the coax double cable they installed.
Nah, that's just regular dual coax to make DVR jobs easier.


The problem with some of the D12s is that it puts out too hot of a RF signal, overdriving the tuner in the TV. In a lot of cases adding that splitter you just took out from the cable conversion, will drop it down to a level the TV can deal with.
That's a neat trick. Gonna try that next time.

[RobertE]

Haven't RCA inputs been on TVs for over 20 years? [or is it "just mine"?]

It may sound harsh, but sometimes you need to factor in the lowest common denominator.

S-Video is the prefered, followed by Composite, lastly RF 3/4. However, one needs to read the customer. Will they and the family be able to understand how and why they get TV on Video 1, etc vs what they have been used to with cable? If they fail that test, then it's RF 3/4 for them, even though the picture won't be as good.

I've seen far, far to many DVD players with component outputs hooked up with RF 3/4 (VCR/DVD combos) or composite when the TV has component inputs.

Everyone (most anyway) understand RF 3/4, few understand composite, component or S-Video. :(

[Rox]

Change the channel on the tv itself to along with the switch on the tv. Has to be done on both or it defeats the whole point of doing it. Try again.
I made the switch and it did clear up the problem. :) I have been trying to do so many things I completely overlooked switching the TV to channel 3. Thank you for the info.
Now I have to switch the RF to S-Video to see if that will even make it better.
Then I will reschedule the appointment with DirecTV and have redo the cables outside with gutter.
I am also considering giving them a test to see if they can figure out the channel problem with 3 and 4 if I switch it back and don't use the S-video.:lol:

[veryoldschool]

I am also considering giving them a test to see if they can figure out the channel problem with 3 and 4 if I switch it back and don't use the S-video.:lol:
Don't: they don't like being "tested" or shown up by the customer. :lol:

[Rox]

It may sound harsh, but sometimes you need to factor in the lowest common denominator.

S-Video is the prefered, followed by Composite, lastly RF 3/4. However, one needs to read the customer. Will they and the family be able to understand how and why they get TV on Video 1, etc vs what they have been used to with cable? If they fail that test, then it's RF 3/4 for them, even though the picture won't be as good.

I've seen far, far to many DVD players with component outputs hooked up with RF 3/4 (VCR/DVD combos) or composite when the TV has component inputs.

Everyone (most anyway) understand RF 3/4, few understand composite, component or S-Video. :(

I log on to great information this morning. I just wish that all the techs would be as interested as you people. I also wish that DirecTV, Comcast and I assume the dish Network would have a training program, tests and some sort of qualification for the people that they send into client homes.

The frustration comes from having a supposed professional come to your home. He pulls in your driveway with a dilapidated pickup truck gets out, looks, and acts as if he came out of the backwoods and has not socialized with the public for a long time. Most do not have a clue how to deal with the public.

Dish or cable access costs plenty we should not have to put up with this. I should not have to babysit them when they come into my home. I also should not have to go on line and investigate every detail of install to make sure they do it right. I find it interesting and I enjoy learning but they should know more than the client, they should be interested in their work not just the paycheck. Knowledge gives you power. Maybe I have come across worse in the business but to me it seems to be more the norm. I should not have to ask for the lead tech or supervisor every time I have a problem or install.

When a plumber comes to fix or install do we worry about every detail. Why is there such a problem of unprofessionalism with dish/cable people?

I wonder if I should copy all of the above material above and hand it to the techs and the supervisor when I reschedule the appointment they missed. Maybe I should read it to them!

I think everyone that has contributed to my problems rocks! All of you are truly interested in what you do.

Thank you:)

[veryoldschool]

Plumber get "x/hour"
Installer get "squat/hour".
Until the pay "rewards" an installer for doing good work and take an interest in "the profession", not much is going to change.
To put it another way: when you pay burger flipping wages, you get burger flipping workers.

[Mertzen]

I log on to great information this morning. I just wish that all the techs would be as interested as you people. I also wish that DirecTV, Comcast and I assume the dish Network would have a training program, tests and some sort of qualification for the people that they send into client homes.

It's called SBCA for the sat industry. But AFAIK still not mandatory.

[jhart05]

I'm pretty much a newbe here as well, so forgive me if this is a stupid question...

Could his signal strength be causing any of this?

Not exclusively just signal strength, but maybe some of it?

[veryoldschool]

I'm pretty much a newbe here as well, so forgive me if this is a stupid question...

Could his signal strength be causing any of this?
Signal strength "can be" an issue, but it would be more in the digital break down than the analog display of the channel 3/4 interface or a ground loop "hum bars".

[Mertzen]

I'm pretty much a newbe here as well, so forgive me if this is a stupid question...

Could his signal strength be causing any of this?

Not exclusively just signal strength, but maybe some of it?

Hardly. It's the same when you realign a customer's dish. "Oh it looks so much clearer now". :lol:

[TigersFanJJ]

Hardly. It's the same when you realign a customer's dish. "Oh it looks so much clearer now". :lol:

I've lost count over the years of how many times I've heard that one.

[BattleZone]

When a plumber comes to fix or install do we worry about every detail. Why is there such a problem of unprofessionalism with dish/cable people?

Plumbers don't come out for free. They charge you, maybe, $70/hour, of which, the plumber himself gets at least $30. And his truck and tools are provided by the company, paid for out of that other $40/hour.

"Professional" satellite installers at one time made similar money, but the sat companies, in their greed, have systematically cut off one piece of revenue after another from the installers, so that today, after expenses, most "professional" installers probably make $8-10/hour. Sometimes not even that. And if they are a contractor, NOTHING is provided for them except the dish and receivers they install at your house. Every tool, connector, cable clip, ground wire, and foot of cable is left to the installer to pay for. If they drive an hour out to a house only to have the customer cancel at the door (happens daily), they make nothing, which means they LOST money, in gas and time, and have NO recourse.

Customers want their install for free. "Free Install" means you simply are NOT going to get a real "professional" installer, because you can't survive as a professional for those rates. Being a professional means you spend extra time to do it right, and buy extra tools to enable you to do things in a different way. Under the current pay models, installers can't afford to spend even an extra minute or their hourly rate plummets, and they certainly can't afford to pay much for extra tools, much less a fancy new truck.

Now, there ARE *real* professional installers out there; the kind you don't have to watch, and who will do the job exactly the way you want. Most of them charge around $75/hour. I know I do.

[ironwood]

Haven't RCA inputs been on TVs for over 20 years? [or is it "just mine"?]

No. 50% of TV's I deal with dont have RCA's or have only one thats used for DVD player/Playstation/etc.

[ironwood]

The problem with some of the D12s is that it puts out too hot of a RF signal, overdriving the tuner in the TV. In a lot of cases adding that splitter you just took out from the cable conversion, will drop it down to a level the TV can deal with. Not eloquent by any means, but it does work.

Even with splitter still doesnt have that clear picture. Thank god most customers switch from cable which have real bad picture so improvement is there and people assume thats how it is supposed to be.

[RobertE]

Even with splitter still doesnt have that clear picture. Thank god most customers switch from cable which have real bad picture so improvement is there and people assume thats how it is supposed to be.

True. Some tvs just have crap reception. Especially the ones where paper clips, forks & who knows what else has been jammed in that f-connector to serve as an "antenna".

[Rox]

Plumbers don't come out for free. They charge you, maybe, $70/hour, of which, the plumber himself gets at least $30. And his truck and tools are provided by the company, paid for out of that other $40/hour.

"Professional" satellite installers at one time made similar money, but the sat companies, in their greed, have systematically cut off one piece of revenue after another from the installers, so that today, after expenses, most "professional" installers probably make $8-10/hour. Sometimes not even that. And if they are a contractor, NOTHING is provided for them except the dish and receivers they install at your house. Every tool, connector, cable clip, ground wire, and foot of cable is left to the installer to pay for. If they drive an hour out to a house only to have the customer cancel at the door (happens daily), they make nothing, which means they LOST money, in gas and time, and have NO recourse.

Customers want their install for free. "Free Install" means you simply are NOT going to get a real "professional" installer, because you can't survive as a professional for those rates. Being a professional means you spend extra time to do it right, and buy extra tools to enable you to do things in a different way. Under the current pay models, installers can't afford to spend even an extra minute or their hourly rate plummets, and they certainly can't afford to pay much for extra tools, much less a fancy new truck.

Now, there ARE *real* professional installers out there; the kind you don't have to watch, and who will do the job exactly the way you want. Most of them charge around $75/hour. I know I do.

Free really has nothing to do with it. Pride in the work is the issue. I do not care if they make minimum wage or $100.00 an hour. Professionalism and pride should exist in whatever is done or get out of the business. Professionalism is defined by Merriam-Webster as the conduct, aims, or qualities that characterize or mark a profession or a professional person.

Maybe I should not have picked on their truck; I really do not care about that it does not have anything to do with it. The important thing is being knowledgeable and professional. If you do not do it right the first time someone has to come back and do it right. I guess you either get it or do not get it. People making $$$ an hour can be unprofessional too.

[BattleZone]

What I'm trying to explain is that the current system rewards techs who "shortcut" (by allowing them to do more paying jobs per day) and penalizes the tech who takes the time to do it right. It doesn't take very long for an installer to look at a short-cutter's paycheck and see that it is more than double his own, when both guys spend the same amount of hours in the field. Very quickly, the "good" tech is asking the "bad" tech how to shortcut, so that he can actually make a survivable wage.

The pay has gotten so low that turnover is massive; well over 50% per month. Techs get trained, get out in the field, and finally get their first paycheck or two and quickly figure out how badly they are being paid, and they either quit, or they "learn" how to improve their bottom line by shortcutting.

If you want professionals, you have to pay a professional wage. DirecTV is paying a small fraction of a professional wage, and not surprisingly, are getting techs that are mostly only a fraction of professional. But at least the install is free to the customer!

[Johnnie5000]

Being a professional means you spend extra time to do it right, and buy extra tools to enable you to do things in a different way. Under the current pay models, installers can't afford to spend even an extra minute or their hourly rate plummets, and they certainly can't afford to pay much for extra tools, much less a fancy new truck.
No doubt about that.
Techs driving the company vans are issued the bare minimal tools needed to complete a basic install. They don't give you good stuff like a cordless drill, flex bits, spade bits, nutsetters, hell they just finally issued us 7/16 wrenches not too long ago.

[ironwood]

What I'm trying to explain is that the current system rewards techs who "shortcut" (by allowing them to do more paying jobs per day) and penalizes the tech who takes the time to do it right. It doesn't take very long for an installer to look at a short-cutter's paycheck and see that it is more than double his own, when both guys spend the same amount of hours in the field. Very quickly, the "good" tech is asking the "bad" tech how to shortcut, so that he can actually make a survivable wage.

The pay has gotten so low that turnover is massive; well over 50% per month. Techs get trained, get out in the field, and finally get their first paycheck or two and quickly figure out how badly they are being paid, and they either quit, or they "learn" how to improve their bottom line by shortcutting.

If you want professionals, you have to pay a professional wage. DirecTV is paying a small fraction of a professional wage, and not surprisingly, are getting techs that are mostly only a fraction of professional. But at least the install is free to the customer!

Pay is not low, for low manual labor job its pretty good. All the stupid requirements and extra stuff not related to install is what killing us. Phone lines. Activation. Closing. Second line DVRs. Directv could easily resolve all this and make our lives easier. All they have to do is come up with one line DVR solution like DISH does. Thats No1.
2. Abandon stupid phone line per each receiver requirement
3. Give each tech a hand-held device to active and close jobs.
Done.

[waterdragon]

Pay is not low, for low manual labor job its pretty good. All the stupid requirements and extra stuff not related to install is what killing us. Phone lines. Activation. Closing. Second line DVRs. Directv could easily resolve all this and make our lives easier. All they have to do is come up with one line DVR solution like DISH does. Thats No1.
2. Abandon stupid phone line per each receiver requirement
3. Give each tech a hand-held device to active and close jobs.
Done.

I dont know where you work but my area of CA. our pay is low. Turn over is very high. Maybe if we were paid a decent wage techs would not quit after a couple of months. Most of the techs are not even making minimum wage and then we are forced to work 6 days a week.

The hand hold device for activation is supposed to be coming soon, hopefully.

[Rox]

2. Abandon stupid phone line per each receiver requirement


Would you explain what the phone line requirement is for each receiver? I have no phone line installed. Thank you :)

[BattleZone]

Techs are required to connect EVERY receiver to a phone line. The receiver has 7 days from activation to complete a call-in to DirecTV. Every receiver that fails to call in costs the installer $5 off his check.

Yes, even if you don't even have phone service at your home, your installer will still get back-charged $5 per receiver he installs.

And, no, customers are NOT told that they need to have the receivers connected to the phone line, so customers routinely get upset at the tech when he tries to plug them in, and many customers will immediately unplug them as soon as the tech leaves.

This is just one of a dozen common ways that installers get screwed.

[Johnnie5000]

Pay is not low, for low manual labor job its pretty good. All the stupid requirements and extra stuff not related to install is what killing us. Phone lines. Activation. Closing. Second line DVRs. Directv could easily resolve all this and make our lives easier. All they have to do is come up with one line DVR solution like DISH does. Thats No1.
2. Abandon stupid phone line per each receiver requirement
3. Give each tech a hand-held device to active and close jobs.
Done.
1.If they would just allow swmlines or swms on every install with a DVR life would be much simpler. Had a job yesterday that it took myself, the customer's housesitter, and a field supervisor 6 damn hours to run a dvr 2nd line on. I tried to get a swmline on the work order for two hours and kept getting the old "you can't have it".
2. F*** phone lines! When they stop giving us the cheap crap that shorts out if the line is over 40ft I might start running them again. $5 is worth not getting a headache.
3. That would be sweet. But naturally they will probably screw us with that by putting the install verification software on every receiver by that point. Then we'll have to wait two hours to get a waiver for a refurb d11 on a service call.

[ironwood]

1.If they would just allow swmlines or swms on every install with a DVR life would be much simpler. Had a job yesterday that it took myself, the customer's housesitter, and a field supervisor 6 damn hours to run a dvr 2nd line on. I tried to get a swmline on the work order for two hours and kept getting the old "you can't have it".
2. F*** phone lines! When they stop giving us the cheap crap that shorts out if the line is over 40ft I might start running them again. $5 is worth not getting a headache.
3. That would be sweet. But naturally they will probably screw us with that by putting the install verification software on every receiver by that point. Then we'll have to wait two hours to get a waiver for a refurb d11 on a service call.

Well see problem with SWMline system is that you dont need this dish on a basic install with basic DVR. I would like to have basic dish with a one line DVR solution. I will never believe DISH was able to make it work with one line and DIrectv couldnt. This is a major pain in the butt for installers and yet company with its fleet of engineers doesnt give a f--k.

[Rox]

Techs are required to connect EVERY receiver to a phone line. The receiver has 7 days from activation to complete a call-in to DirecTV. Every receiver that fails to call in costs the installer $5 off his check.

Yes, even if you don't even have phone service at your home, your installer will still get back-charged $5 per receiver he installs.

And, no, customers are NOT told that they need to have the receivers connected to the phone line, so customers routinely get upset at the tech when he tries to plug them in, and many customers will immediately unplug them as soon as the tech leaves.

This is just one of a dozen common ways that installers get screwed.

I want to be knowledgeable and I am trying to understand the phone line requirement. The crew that did the new install did not mention a phone line. I have a land line phone.

How do I know if they did this?
Is this connection on the outside of house?
Is it necessary for me to have good service?

I am not trying to make you people upset!

DirecTV is coming back tomorrow to fix/correct issues with the service and I want to make sure it is done right.

Also, I have some questions if you would be so kind to answer;

I do not have HD right know but might get it within the next 4 to 6 months (snowy here in Minnesota). Would it make sense to put the HD dish on the roof now?
Also do you have to have the HD dish if want the HD receiver. I am interested in the on demand feature and I guess that is the only way you can get it.


Thank you ;)

[joe diamond]

I want to be knowledgeable and I am trying to understand the phone line requirement. The crew that did the new install did not mention a phone line. I have a land line phone.

How do I know if they did this?
Is this connection on the outside of house?
Is it necessary for me to have good service?

I am not trying to make you people upset!

DirecTV is coming back tomorrow to fix/correct issues with the service and I want to make sure it is done right.

Also, I have some questions if you would be so kind to answer;

I do not have HD right know but might get it within the next 4 to 6 months (snowy here in Minnesota). Would it make sense to put the HD dish on the roof now?
Also do you have to have the HD dish if want the HD receiver. I am interested in the on demand feature and I guess that is the only way you can get it.


Thank you ;)

RE: The phones........There is a port on the back of the receiver. A provided phone cord will reach 25 feet to your nearest phone outlet. IF that is not possible a splitter at the nearest outlet works OR extending a line from an outlet to a new outlet near your TV OR running a line to your NID (Network Interface Device.IF done correctly you won't notice it but will have PPV (Pay per View) service and DTV will know where your receiver is installed. IF done incorrectly your phones won't work. Installers who have little experience with the DTV systems will probably not have the experience to repair your phones after they screw them up.....make sure the phones work if they mess with your telco stuff.
RE: HD
They will fix the system you have now. IF you order an HD receiver they will install the HD dish at that time and you begin paying the HD fee each month along with the cost of the HD receiver. The presence of a HD TV is recommended at the time of the installation. There is an additional two year commitment for the HD installation.
RE: on demand.......no experience with that project.

Joe

[BattleZone]

I want to be knowledgeable and I am trying to understand the phone line requirement. The crew that did the new install did not mention a phone line. I have a land line phone.

How do I know if they did this?
Is this connection on the outside of house?
Is it necessary for me to have good service?

I am not trying to make you people upset!

DirecTV is coming back tomorrow to fix/correct issues with the service and I want to make sure it is done right.

I don't work for DirecTV anymore, so you aren't making me upset! :)

All DirecTV receivers have a phone jack on the back, and come with a 25' phone line jumper. Most of the time, you won't have a phone jack close to the receiver, and while DirecTV fully expects installers to install phone outlets to "make it happen", I'd guess that less than 5% of installers ever do this (and they are getting royally screwed financially, because there's NO way the pay rate covers, for free, what the phone company charges $125+ to do, on top of the sat install). So, most installers don't even take the phone cord out of the box.

The phone line is not necessary, but gives you a few benefits:

- You can order PPV via your remote.
- You can view Caller-ID (if you have it) on your TV
- Your receiver can do certain "interactive" items that don't work without a connection.
- Your receiver can report things like low signal strength or other hardware failures and initiate a service call to fix them, even if they aren't bad enough to affect you yet.


Also, I have some questions if you would be so kind to answer;

I do not have HD right know but might get it within the next 4 to 6 months (snowy here in Minnesota). Would it make sense to put the HD dish on the roof now?
Also do you have to have the HD dish if want the HD receiver. I am interested in the on demand feature and I guess that is the only way you can get it.


Thank you ;)

If you want HD, get it TODAY. DirecTV will not install an HD dish or receiver unless you order (and agree to keep) HD service, but if you plan to have it, I *strongly* recommend getting it while the weather allows. I know you folks are pretty good at dealing with the extreme weather you get up there, but the bottom line is that a sub-zero winter install is far, FAR more likely to be problematic and not-up-to-code than one done in reasonable weather. And, in many cases, such an install simply won't be possible in the winter there.

HD is an extra $10/month. It is WORTH the extra $40 you'll pay to have it done now.

[Johnnie5000]

How do I know if they did this?
Is this connection on the outside of house?
Is it necessary for me to have good service?


Phone lines are not necessary unless you plan on ordering a buttload of pay-per-views. If you don't want to look at the back of the receiver or your phone box outside, get into the menu and run a system test.



I do not have HD right know but might get it within the next 4 to 6 months (snowy here in Minnesota). Would it make sense to put the HD dish on the roof now?
Also do you have to have the HD dish if want the HD receiver. I am interested in the on demand feature and I guess that is the only way you can get it.


As IIP said, put in in now. And while the installer is there and his ladder is still up, but after he's finished mounting/peaking/wiring the dish, give the installer a can of silicone lubricant spray (can be found in most auto-parts stores). Lubing up the dish will help keep snow from sticking to it, just don't use any petroleum based products. Spray on Crisco works pretty well too.

You'll need an HDDVR for on demand along with a highspeed internet connection. Just use the search function for more info on that.

[bird dog]

have you hooked up the IRD to a extension cord from another room? worth a shot.