Installer's Day Turns Very Ugly

[K4SMX]

My across-the-road neighbor had an HD upgrade scheduled for this AM, so I wandered over to make sure everything was going to turn out OK. This is a very large house, biggest in the neighborhood, and and has a separate guest house, with a three big NEC 720p plasmas and three smaller SD-connected flat screens, which were not to be upgraded.

We're Rolling Right Along

The installer arrived about 10 AM with three H23's, shortly after I finished scoping out the possibilities for a separate dish for the guest house because of the distance from the dish (200'), which were nil without some work because of the exterior construction materials. He advised he was already running late because of required time in the office and that this was the first of six installs scheduled for the day. No doubt it's the NFL DirecTV last minute rush.

We quickly got the SL5 installed in the same location as the existing Phase III on the side of the house. There was also a dual LNB round dish for two of the SD receivers, so he ran all six dish lines to a WB68. He was dubious about the LOS, because of overhanging branches, but pointing to the Phase III, now on the ground, I convinced him to proceed. His method of aligning for the Ka's consisted simply of peaking the 101 on his Bird Dog without the use of the fine adjustment bolts. I'm just observing and helping at this point. The 119's required a tilt adjustment, which he did reluctantly, because he'd been told by his supervisor that he didn't need to worry about the 119 LOS for the SL5 anymore. I let that slide for the time being. Then the "fun" began.

The Plot Thickens

After firing up the receivers, they all showed pretty good 101/110/119 sig's, even the one 200' away, but nothing on 99(a) or 103(b) except sig's in the 20's on 103(b) tp's 10 and 12. He wasn't real sure what was actually on 99(a) and 103(b) and was pretty much ready to activate the receivers and hit the road. After convincing him we had a problem (the 771's on the HD channels convinced him), we tried peaking the dish by cellphone relay. He was at the dish, and I could tell he wasn't using the fine adjustment bolts, but was moving the dish by hand on the mount while watching the 101 on his Bird Dog plugged into an extra port on the WB68.

So we swapped positions, and the most I could get with the fine adjustments was 40's on those two 103(b) tp's; everything else HD was zero. Obviously there was an additional problem. About this time his phone started ringing re: his other two AM appointments.

He was sure it was that tree branch blocking the 99's and 103's, but not the 101's. I talked him into bypassing the WB68, without much improvement. Then I talked him into replacing the WNC with another LNB. The new (?) Eagle Aspen showed absolutely zero on ALL satellites. About this time he started talking to himself on the way to and from the truck, in between more phone calls as his rapidly evaporating day started pressing him.

From Bad to Worse

He put the original WNC back on, and now we were missing all the 101 evens as well as the 99's and 103's. He starting to get a little nuts now.....more muttering. So he decides to run four new cables about 75' to the new ground block at the service entrance. That fixed the 101 even's problem, so we were back to where we started. Now it's about 1:30 PM. More phone calls.....

So he decides to activate the three H23's, which had already downloaded the latest software, just to make sure there wasn't some weird software/activation issue preventing reception of the HD satellites. That ate up most of another hour, since two of them wouldn't activate right away, requiring lots of time on the phone, which was now also getting call waiting calls about his PM installs. I was meanwhile observing that the activated receiver still had no HD sig's.

......and Worse

Being convinced that that tree branch was the problem all along, he now decides to do a pole mount further down the hill, although now we're getting into possible LOS problems with more distant trees. It's gonna be close there. Pole comes out of the truck, and he makes a point out of the end by mashing it flat. Then he drives it into the ground in the new spot. I'm not saying doodly squat about concrete at this late point. I just want to see what's gonna happen with the sig's, but lo if he didn't install an 1 1/2" pole! Back to the truck, more self discussion. More phone calls.

I talked him into yet another LNB, which he accidentally dropped in the driveway, and I installed it on the new, slightly wobbly pole mount (same hole in the dirt) while he connected all the barrels, necessary since the 75' of new cable missed reaching to the new pole mount location by < 5'. More muttering. He's worried about the distant trees.

Light at the End of the Tunnel Leads to Solution

(no oncoming trains)

Back to the receivers, and we've got exactly the same signals. He knows it's those trees, but I convinced him that was impossible, they're different trees, and talked him into making me up a straight run to the nearest receiver, a good 100' away through a window.

Voila! High 80's to mid-90's on 99(a) and 103(b). Now we know it's the cables, not the trees. Finally! Tracing our six cables back from the WB68, we find that two of them are chopped off in the bushes and don't connect to anything. Hmmmm. Six receivers, four remaining cables. So I propose that we now go on a treasure hunt to find what I believe to be a non-compliant multi-switch somewhere under this giant house, since all three receivers are doing the exact same thing. We locate multiple crawl space openings, so we start to trace the wires and I find they first enter a small basement room full of water heaters hidden on the low side of the house. Way back in the corner is a small distribution box with a bunch of telephone wires and RG6 going into it. Inside the box: a Terk BMS58 multi-switch!!!

Swapped the WB68 into place and everything works. Elapsed time: 6.5 hrs. I'll be moving the dish back to the original location sometime next week. My brain is tired, and I don't really want to go help any more neighbors any time soon. She was a mighty fine looking gal, though...... :)

[Grentz]

First off, I am very impressed with your well formated post! Most people rant and it is darn near impossible to figure out what is going on.

What an experience though! I am shocked the installer did not check the lines...that should have been done no matter what in the beginning. What do you do I guess, glad you got it figured out. It's sad it is like this as imagine what the same experience would have been like if you had no knowledge of the technologies and just accepted whatever the installer said!

and HR23?

[K4SMX]

Sorry! I fixed that. Anyway, it's the BBC-less H21, whatever the model number is supposed to be. Yes, it was quite a day. I got the call that he was on the way just before breakfast and had nothing to eat all day, so I was a little done in by the whole ordeal.

We did look at the existing cable, and it was high quality solid copper center conductor stuff. We just didn't notice that two of them had been chopped off in the bushes, right where they entered the house on the other side of the ground block. We figured they were all home runs to the receiver locations. There was also a dual LNB round dish for two of the SD receivers, so initially, it all seemed to make sense.

What he would have said was it was a LOS issue and moved on.....

[Grentz]

You just had an extra R in there ;)

No big deal, just don't want to start people off on the DOES IT EXIST tangents :lol:

[joe diamond]

Six jobs! So he is late for all of them except the first one. Ya gotta wonder.

Joe

[K4SMX]

.....No big deal, just don't want to start people off on the DOES IT EXIST tangents :lol:
And that's exactly what would have happened.....

[K4SMX]

Six jobs! So he is late for all of them except the first one. Ya gotta wonder.

Joe
He was late for that one, too.

[techrep]

And that's exactly what would have happened.....

Tune in tomorrow for another exciting K4SMX adventure. :lol:

[K4SMX]

NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....

[billcushman]

K4SMX, without your assistance your neighbor would probably have had months of problems, repeat calls, frustration, and excuses. They may have never received a satisfactory resolution. I hope they appreciate how lucky they are.

DirecTV seems to have a MAJOR problem with installers not following the recommended installation procedures. The customer should be well informed on the installation procedures if they so desire. This can be easily accomplished by letting anyone view the training videos which are presently blocked. When the installer obviously does not follow proper procedures, there should be a special phone number to call to discuss this information directly someone at DirecTV who can rectify the problem.

All installers should be required to have a sighting compass/inclinometer such as the Suunto Tandem, and know how to use it. This will stop all the nonsense about line-of-sight issues.

Bad cables and connectors can be easily checked by many different simple and fast techniques. One easy way is to connect a shorting plug at one end and measure the resistance at the other end using a multimeter. Remove the shorting plug and again check using the multimeter. Only takes a few seconds and can save hours.

"Do it right the first time" is more than a neat cliche. The true costs to DirecTV of what would have happened without your assistance would have been long delays for the customer to have a correctly operating system, if that ever happened. There would have been hours of wasted time, and possibly the permanent loss of a customer, who would have told many friends about their horrible experience. These huge costs can never be accurately measured, but their impact can have a gigantic effect on bottom line profit.

[techrep]

NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....

I am starting to get a picture of why you live (at least part time) there.

It's your thread and I can hardly wait for another chapter of, "K4SMX And The Crystal Dish" or "Stew And The Neighbor." :lol:

[davring]

Wonderful job K4SMX. The next chapter in your saga should be a follow up on the next four customers the tech was scheduled to see that day. What they each were told about their installer not showing up, when is their next installation appointment window, how many credits did D* offer the lucky few who even knew to ask for compensation. These poorly trained installers must be costing D*, this one episode alone could have amounted to $400.00 in credits and poor customer relations with new or existing customers. I have been with D* for a very long time and generally quite happy with their service and that happiness is due partly to me understanding more about their equipment than their own people. $400.00 could have trained a couple of people quite well.

[cweave02]

NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....

Now Stew! I hope you are an equal-opportunity helper - surely there are some good looking guys who are equally clueless and need help. My dad for one - he had to call me on my cell phone yesterday when Mother hit the wrong button on the TV remote (even though he taped over all the buttons except the 'on' one), and the TV would not work. I had to try and remember (from GA) what their set-up (in VA) looked like, and walk him through several steps, from cycling through the 'input' choices of their TV and re-setting the H20-700.

You should offer to be a part time employee for the installer co - sure would save them a lot of $$$, but would not give you nearly as much laughs. I hope you let Molly go with you for protection from the rabid installers!

[cweave02]

Sounds like the plot fora new hit TV series!!

[jimirb]

K4SMX de K4OUT. Good to see another 1 x 3 from 4-land.

73

[LarryFlowers]

NOT tomorrow, please!!! I'm taking the day off from watching for DirecTV trucks. But I do have one from last month at the next door neighbor's.....also a very spiffy lady.....

Several things to point out here...

1. Your a GREAT neighbor! (even if she was cute)
2. Well written report
3. If the local Installer had any sense he would hire you to trouble shoot tough installs and to do some ride alongs to show installers the right way to do things!

Me hat's off to ya! :)

Post Script Edit... I sincerely hope someone from DirecTV reads this post.. It makes some very interesting points and could also provide some insites as to how they could help installers do a better job.

[BattleZone]

Anyone who wonders why the installer did the stupid things he did should learn from one important fact here:

The installer was assigned SIX (!!!) jobs that day, PLUS was kept at his shop until late in the morning.

At the very, very best, these jobs take 3 hours to be done right. If *anything* isn't perfect, add 1-2 hours. *Assuming* everything was perfect, this installer was given 18 hours of work to do, NOT including drive-time, or, heaven forbid, a LUNCH!

So, why was he given 18-30 hours worth of work for a single day? Because the HSP has less than half the installers that they need. Why is that? Because the pay is so low, and the abuse is so high, that turn-over is well over 50% per month, which also explains why this guy had next to zero training, which was obvious by his lack of understanding of dish alignment or cable paths.

Don't worry, though. This installer will probably quit before October, so he won't screw up that many more installs. Of course, the next guy will be worse...

[K4SMX]

The primary purpose of the report was to give an example of why customers have such a hard time getting installs accomplished on a scheduled time and date. All it takes is one job like this to blow a six customer schedule completely away. The secondary purpose was to show that there is still a real lack of basic skills and practices among "experienced" installers. This guy was no "newbie;" he was here in my neighborhood last year. He'll probably still be here in October, aligning SL5's without using the fine adjustment bolts. I don't know how long he's been doing HD installs, but certainly in the last 12 months he's got to have done a bunch.

As far as the problems we encountered, they could have happened to anyone. Most upgrades would probably not have run aground like this, with hidden components and hidden cabling modifications, which didn't lead you to think of possible hidden components. I guess the moral of the story is never take anything for granted when doing an upgrade with multiple receivers: verify there's no pre-existing multi-switches, even if it doesn't appear there are any. At least follow the dish lines until they leave a common point. That would have saved us a lot of time.

This guy was ready to no LOS this job on multiple occasions, once he realized there were HD reception problems. The only reason I could talk him into doing further troubleshooting was he couldn't explain why we were getting signals on two 103(b) tp's if there was no LOS. He didn't know the difference between 103(a) and (b), until I explained it to him, since he never looks at the satellite signal strength menu pages. Once he had rough-aligned the 101 on his Bird Dog, to him, a 771 on an HD channel means no LOS. Don't know what he would've done if there had been no trees on the property..... :)

A few other observations:

I could almost guarantee you this guy is not a DirecTV customer, certainly not an HD customer. How else can you explain his lack of understanding about what's on what satellite signal strength menu page. If they can't effectively include this basic general info in training, DirecTV should seriously consider making HD subscription a requirement, absent LOS issues, and make it financially feasible to be a requirement. People who actually use the company's equipment usually make much better tech's.

What would it really cost financially and wouldn't it simultaneously benefit in customer goodwill to issue these guys company-owned, Ka-capable signal meters as a matter of course so they can rapidly and effectively align the Ka/Ku dish instead of dithering? They obviously don't like dithering or use it in practice in all cases. They like their meters, they're just not the right meters anymore.

Overscheduling needs to be brought under control. This has got to be costing DirecTV millions in a variety of ways, including unwarranted no LOS's and shoddy installation work leading to long-term customer dissatisfaction. Higher pay = more installers = less jobs per day. Add better quality training and more company QC checks. Don't rely solely on Installation Verification software. They find ways around that.

BTW, this guy did have a sighting compass/inclinometer, but I guess he didn't know how to use the inclinometer, because there was clearly not an LOS issue with the pole mount location, even though he was pretty sure there was. The reason he put the pole mount there was because there really was nowhere else.

[davring]

Basic training for installers; give them an inexspensive HD TV, basic HD tuner, better yet an HR, and a Slimline. Tell them they can have DirecTV HD service and a job once they have it installed and activated, with supporting images of the sat signal strenght screens as proof. :)

[K4SMX]

:lol: :lol: :lol: That would have to be verified with an on site investigation. A lot of these guys would probably sell the equipment on eBay to get grocery money for their families.....

[ironwood]

I had a situation like this on a service call after another "tech" did an HD upgrade. It took me 2 hours to figure out a 4x8 switch in the attic. There is no training on this kind of stuff. Its only experience and learning through mistakes.

One thing is obvious though. This was a new tech. LOS issues and doubts like this only happen to new techs. Why was a new tech given 6 jobs in 1 day? Funny how author says he was exhausted at the end of this adventure. Tech still had to go and do his other 5 jobs. I am not sure about his 30 minute lunch.

[techrep]

I had a situation like this on a service call after another "tech" did an HD upgrade. It took me 2 hours to figure out a 4x8 switch in the attic. There is no training on this kind of stuff. Its only experience and learning through mistakes.

One thing is obvious though. This was a new tech. LOS issues and doubts like this only happen to new techs. Why was a new tech given 6 jobs in 1 day? Funny how author says he was exhausted at the end of this adventure. Tech still had to go and do his other 5 jobs. I am not sure about his 30 minute lunch.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that his helper called in sick or, maybe he was the helper. :)

[thespaceghost]

A few other observations:

I could almost guarantee you this guy is not a DirecTV customer, certainly not an HD customer. How else can you explain his lack of understanding about what's on what satellite signal strength menu page. If they can't effectively include this basic general info in training, DirecTV should seriously consider making HD subscription a requirement, absent LOS issues, and make it financially feasible to be a requirement. People who actually use the company's equipment usually make much better tech's.

What would it really cost financially and wouldn't it simultaneously benefit in customer goodwill to issue these guys company-owned, Ka-capable signal meters as a matter of course so they can rapidly and effectively align the Ka/Ku dish instead of dithering? They obviously don't like dithering or use it in practice in all cases. They like their meters, they're just not the right meters anymore.

Overscheduling needs to be brought under control. This has got to be costing DirecTV millions in a variety of ways, including unwarranted no LOS's and shoddy installation work leading to long-term customer dissatisfaction. Higher pay = more installers = less jobs per day. Add better quality training and more company QC checks. Don't rely solely on Installation Verification software. They find ways around that.



These are some good points.

I completely agree having a personal HD DVR should be mandatory, provided by the HSP. There is so much that I do not know about the HDDVR's simply because I do not own one. Im never home (hmmm i wonder why) to even justify getting one, much less paying for an account. I love that customer catch question; "So, what kind of equipment do you have?"

As far as Installation verification software, I completely agree. We try to beat the download. Not that many of us do shotty work, its simply because it slows us down.

Scheduling is out of control. A tech should never have more than 3 installs. Today I didn't get my work until 9:30am. 6 jobs. Naturally, Im placed 1 hr from my house. 3 AM Installs (KAKU/International/Standard) and a service call. I shouldn't be dragging in at 9:30 at night.

Most techs these days are only working for the money; They don't care about the industry. They have little pride in their work. On a service call, I came across a Slimline that had a reflector mismatched from different kits. The bolt holes don't match up. It didn't matter to this tech, he simply used the two bottom holes and left the upper two unbolted since he couldn't get them in. Naturally, this reflector wasn't meant for this kit, so its impossible to get a good signal. We all see crap like this all the time. HSP needs techs so bad that they won't get rid of these half ass techs. In the end, its the customers that pay. Such is life.

[Terry Kennedy]

Six jobs! So he is late for all of them except the first one. Ya gotta wonder.Management needs to be very careful about how they address this. At my telco, techs get penalized for each job they miss or fail to complete by the end of the day. So when the paperwork comes out in the morning, everybody looks at their paper to guess which is the hardest job, and they move that to the end of the day. Better to get 3 installs done and miss the hard one than to start with the hard one and miss the 3 easy ones.

At the end of the day, the hard job goes back into the system for the next day. Lather, rinse, repeat. :p

[Supervolcano]

One thing is obvious though. This was a new tech. LOS issues and doubts like this only happen to new techs.
Nope, reread this tidbit.
;)
The secondary purpose was to show that there is still a real lack of basic skills and practices among "experienced" installers. This guy was no "newbie;" he was here in my neighborhood last year.

[DTVTech4U]

Speaking as a tech i can say the scheduling is way out of hand. It gets worse when your a "sub" such as i am, yet treated like an in house worker, even though your company isent the HSP. This got out of hand at my shop and they finaly woke up briefly and said they will only give us 4 jobs a day, lasted a week, then back to overload, anything falls through you MUST call in and pickup work.

[DTVTech4U]

My across-the-road neighbor had an HD upgrade scheduled for this AM, so I wandered over to make sure everything was going to turn out OK. This is a very large house, biggest in the neighborhood, and and has a separate guest house, with a three big NEC 720p plasmas and three smaller SD-connected flat screens, which were not to be upgraded.

We're Rolling Right Along

The installer arrived about 10 AM with three H23's, shortly after I finished scoping out the possibilities for a separate dish for the guest house because of the distance from the dish (200'), which were nil without some work because of the exterior construction materials. He advised he was already running late because of required time in the office and that this was the first of six installs scheduled for the day. No doubt it's the NFL DirecTV last minute rush.

We quickly got the SL5 installed in the same location as the existing Phase III on the side of the house. There was also a dual LNB round dish for two of the SD receivers, so he ran all six dish lines to a WB68. He was dubious about the LOS, because of overhanging branches, but pointing to the Phase III, now on the ground, I convinced him to proceed. His method of aligning for the Ka's consisted simply of peaking the 101 on his Bird Dog without the use of the fine adjustment bolts. I'm just observing and helping at this point. The 119's required a tilt adjustment, which he did reluctantly, because he'd been told by his supervisor that he didn't need to worry about the 119 LOS for the SL5 anymore. I let that slide for the time being. Then the "fun" began.

The Plot Thickens

After firing up the receivers, they all showed pretty good 101/110/119 sig's, even the one 200' away, but nothing on 99(a) or 103(b) except sig's in the 20's on 103(b) tp's 10 and 12. He wasn't real sure what was actually on 99(a) and 103(b) and was pretty much ready to activate the receivers and hit the road. After convincing him we had a problem (the 771's on the HD channels convinced him), we tried peaking the dish by cellphone relay. He was at the dish, and I could tell he wasn't using the fine adjustment bolts, but was moving the dish by hand on the mount while watching the 101 on his Bird Dog plugged into an extra port on the WB68.

So we swapped positions, and the most I could get with the fine adjustments was 40's on those two 103(b) tp's; everything else HD was zero. Obviously there was an additional problem. About this time his phone started ringing re: his other two AM appointments.

He was sure it was that tree branch blocking the 99's and 103's, but not the 101's. I talked him into bypassing the WB68, without much improvement. Then I talked him into replacing the WNC with another LNB. The new (?) Eagle Aspen showed absolutely zero on ALL satellites. About this time he started talking to himself on the way to and from the truck, in between more phone calls as his rapidly evaporating day started pressing him.

From Bad to Worse

He put the original WNC back on, and now we were missing all the 101 evens as well as the 99's and 103's. He starting to get a little nuts now.....more muttering. So he decides to run four new cables about 75' to the new ground block at the service entrance. That fixed the 101 even's problem, so we were back to where we started. Now it's about 1:30 PM. More phone calls.....

So he decides to activate the three H23's, which had already downloaded the latest software, just to make sure there wasn't some weird software/activation issue preventing reception of the HD satellites. That ate up most of another hour, since two of them wouldn't activate right away, requiring lots of time on the phone, which was now also getting call waiting calls about his PM installs. I was meanwhile observing that the activated receiver still had no HD sig's.

......and Worse

Being convinced that that tree branch was the problem all along, he now decides to do a pole mount further down the hill, although now we're getting into possible LOS problems with more distant trees. It's gonna be close there. Pole comes out of the truck, and he makes a point out of the end by mashing it flat. Then he drives it into the ground in the new spot. I'm not saying doodly squat about concrete at this late point. I just want to see what's gonna happen with the sig's, but lo if he didn't install an 1 1/2" pole! Back to the truck, more self discussion. More phone calls.

I talked him into yet another LNB, which he accidentally dropped in the driveway, and I installed it on the new, slightly wobbly pole mount (same hole in the dirt) while he connected all the barrels, necessary since the 75' of new cable missed reaching to the new pole mount location by < 5'. More muttering. He's worried about the distant trees.

Light at the End of the Tunnel Leads to Solution

(no oncoming trains)

Back to the receivers, and we've got exactly the same signals. He knows it's those trees, but I convinced him that was impossible, they're different trees, and talked him into making me up a straight run to the nearest receiver, a good 100' away through a window.

Voila! High 80's to mid-90's on 99(a) and 103(b). Now we know it's the cables, not the trees. Finally! Tracing our six cables back from the WB68, we find that two of them are chopped off in the bushes and don't connect to anything. Hmmmm. Six receivers, four remaining cables. So I propose that we now go on a treasure hunt to find what I believe to be a non-compliant multi-switch somewhere under this giant house, since all three receivers are doing the exact same thing. We locate multiple crawl space openings, so we start to trace the wires and I find they first enter a small basement room full of water heaters hidden on the low side of the house. Way back in the corner is a small distribution box with a bunch of telephone wires and RG6 going into it. Inside the box: a Terk BMS58 multi-switch!!!

Swapped the WB68 into place and everything works. Elapsed time: 6.5 hrs. I'll be moving the dish back to the original location sometime next week. My brain is tired, and I don't really want to go help any more neighbors any time soon. She was a mighty fine looking gal, though...... :)


hopefully his outer jobs got picked up

[RobertE]

I can sympathize with the guy. Been there done that.

I've done jobs where on the simple walk through everything looks normal. Dish, ground block, single switch, etc. Put in the required new stuff, but yet it don't work. :confused: :scratch: If lucky after interrogating the customer, you find out there is other stuff in the basement/crawl/attic whatever. Gee, would have been nice if you had mentioned that earlier. :mad:

Then you have the customers that have no clue what so ever on how their system is setup. I'm not saying they need to know it forwards and backwards, but at least know where things are. It's great having to spend an hour or more playing where's waldo looking for that extra switch or diplexor that may or may not be there. :mad:

For the overbooking, thats just out of control. DirecTv is and has been telling the HSPs to knock it off, but thats falling on deaf ears. Just the other day, I had 4 am jobs (8-12) and 2 PM jobs (12-4). The AMs were 2 service calls, a 2 box install and a 4 box install, the PMs were both 3 box installs. There was simply no way that was going to happen. I had enough work just in the AM to last the whole day. Needless to say, the time frames got blown out of the water.

[BattleZone]

For the overbooking, thats just out of control. DirecTv is and has been telling the HSPs to knock it off, but thats falling on deaf ears.

That's because at the same time, DirecTV is strongly pressuring the HSPs to get these jobs in and empty the backlogs. But the HSPs don't want to lose any of their (fairly HUGE) margins, so they refuse to pay the techs better. Thus, they can't keep techs. But, they are contractually required to maintain a certain number of techs, so they simply lie and tell DirecTV that they have enough. When I was a sub, they had everyone that had ever worked for me, including people gone over 6 months, listed as HSP *employees* to DirecTV, to pad their numbers. And all the in-house people who quit and left? Still on the books, "rolling to jobs" everyday, on paper, so that their Tech-to-Job ratio was where DirecTV wanted it. This is a big item in the Class Action suits, and nothing has changed.

An experienced tech can probably do 2 install/upgrades and a service call per day. Assigning any more than that is setting the tech up for failure, which is what happens to nearly every tech every day.

[ironwood]

Nope, reread this tidbit.
;)

Then he is a dumbass. 1 year is enough to learn where the sun rises.

[jckm]

I wonder what time he will get back home?

[ironwood]

They should put portable beds in Directv vans. Maybe stock it with microwave and mini fridge so we dont have to go home at all.

[Supervolcano]

I wonder what time he will get back home?
24 hours later and he's probably still on that 5th service call, one more to go.

[swillotter]

it's amazing how many times i've gone to sevice calls to replace a receiver because it won't power up and then i swap it out and notice no hd signal. customer will say everything worked great before...then find a a sd 6x8...tell customer that he never had hd in the last two years because his receiver was set up for a 18x20 3lnb. just the other day went to one where the customer has had intermittent loss of hd for 2 years about 6-8 service calls and the non-hd 6x8 was right there in plain sight under the eaves under the dish. or even better is when the have a triple-sat instead of a slimline hah

[joe diamond]

I see the ads around here...the HSPs are behind about three weeks on service....I just can't / won't make the call. F' em!

Joe

[wallfishman]

Ill give you a whole other side to this story. Its easy to sit back and monday morning quarterback after the fact. No one understands the pressure you are under with 6 jobs and your first one is a bunch of trouble. To the neighbor... I dont mean to be rude but i may have asked you to nicely leave me alone for awhile, so i can do my job. It sounds like you were up his ass the entire installation pointing out every little thing , probably not knowlingly even misleading him. Like if you wanted to be so involved in the install why didnt you tell him hours ago that those lines were cut and there was an old junky multiswitch under there. your telling him to switch lnbs etc. ive had situations like that before people saying this is easy just hookup to those 6 lines right there and you are good to go. so you dont do your normal toning or tracing of things thinking they know what they are talking about and you run into something like this, redoing dishes, pole mount etc, just to find out the lines are screwed up.

I had a job sort of like that a few months ago. called the guy the night before guy was an electrician. This is gonna be easy he says got 4 lines coiled up by the electric meter all homeruns, want 4 tvs hooked up. we went over where he wanted it installed because he wasnt gonna be there , just his wife. so i go easy job install the dish hookup a 3x4 to 4 brand new lines coiled up outside. go in start hooking up boxes and nothing. WTF i say maybe he made junky fittings behind the wallplates or something. start moving furniture , undoing wallplates etc, changing crimped on crappy fittings, new barrels on wallplates, still nothing. so i head down to basement start taking apart drop ceiling. WTF !!! those 4 lines went to the biggest Fng mess ive ever seen in my life. going to like 2 cable co amps, splitters backwards, all these other wires coiled up i dont even know where they went, splitters feeding splitters upon splitters, all junk, he had comcast emta for voice he never told me, comcast internet, etc. so i break out the toners and had to tone out every line in the house. weird things like normally the lines going to tvs would be on the output of the splitters. 2 were and 2 were on the input of splitters !! I still dont even understand how anything worked over there. In his defense he did use all good RG6.

I didnt get mad and only wasted about an hour or so figuring it out but i could kick myself because i knew better than that. Ive been burned before like almost burnt someones house down like 10 years ago listening to another customer about how to do something against my own judgement. I swore off listening to them at all that day, except every once in awhile i still fall for their trickery !! show me where the tvs you want hooked up are at and any other helpful information you might have, and then please go find something to do. again not trying to be mean to the OP, that tech beating an 1 5/8 into the ground no concrete and installing an HD on it tells me exactly what you were dealing with . better luck with the next one...

[BattleZone]

One thing you learn as an installer: all things told to you by a customer (or a CSR) are suspect until proven otherwise. At least half the time, what I'm told when I arrive is wrong. It isn't that the customers are intentionally trying to mislead me, but often they are simply either mistaken, or just don't know what they're talking about (in a technical sense) but are trying to be helpful.

I go by that Cold War saying: Trust But Verify...

[bb37]

I go by that Cold War saying: Trust But Verify...
So, installer shows up at my house a week ago Saturday. I show him where I want the receiver, show him the two RG-6 quad shield solid copper cables sticking out of the wall, tell him the cables run directly to the outside of the house where I want the dish, we go outside and I show him where I have already mounted the J-pole for the dish, and show him the connection box I installed with the grounding block and the cables. Installer doesn't check to see if the pole is plumb, puts up the dish, checks the aim with his meter, runs the cables from the dish down to my connection box, puts connectors on my cables, goes back inside to put connectors on my cables there, installs the wall plate, and hooks up jumper cables to my receiver. He restarts the receiver and doesn't check signal strengths. He then calls to activate the receiver. Once activated, I check a few channels to see if they are working. Installer has me sign the order and leaves.

Either this guy was very trusting of what I had done and what I told him or he was just in a hurry to get to his next appointment. After a week, the system is performing flawlessly, so I can't complain.

[HoTat2]

Wow...

To slightly paraphrase the old Navy TV commercial slogan;

"It's wasn't just a job, it was an adventure!

So if I'm understanding this correctly, all of this daylong confusion was apparently caused by the installers of the original phase III dish who must have transfered the two SD receivers that were on the phase I at the time to the phase III along with any additional receivers installed that day via that hidden Ku band Terk BMS58 you finally located.

However since they left the original cable runs from the old phase I dish intact up to the point where they were cut behind those bushes on the other side of the terminal block, you and the installer assumed that those total of six cables were all active straight home runs to the six receiver positions.

Yes;

A certainly understandable and frustrating mistaken assumption, though I'm sure some may feel that if you and the installer saw the obvious logic in transferring the receivers on the phase I dish to the SlimLine 5 along with the others, why wouldn't you have reasoned that the installer(s) of the phase III would have done the same and the phase I dish was likely dead?

But I of course would never be one of those. Believe me I detest monday morning quarterbacks and armchair generals.

[SledDog]

Ill give you a whole other side to this story. Its easy to sit back and monday morning quarterback after the fact. No one understands the pressure you are under with 6 jobs and your first one is a bunch of trouble. To the neighbor... I dont mean to be rude but i may have asked you to nicely leave me alone for awhile, so i can do my job. It sounds like you were up his ass the entire installation pointing out every little thing , probably not knowlingly even misleading him. Like if you wanted to be so involved in the install why didnt you tell him hours ago that those lines were cut and there was an old junky multiswitch under there. your telling him to switch lnbs etc. ive had situations like that before people saying this is easy just hookup to those 6 lines right there and you are good to go. so you dont do your normal toning or tracing of things thinking they know what they are talking about and you run into something like this, redoing dishes, pole mount etc, just to find out the lines are screwed up.
...

Sounds like you need to re-read his post. Because it would appear you just skimmed it. No offense intended, but if that's your attitude that you think someone trying to give you some assistance is "up your ass", you sound like one of those installers that does an incomplete job. Or are just looking for any reason not to do an install? If an installer has a problem with me looking over his shoulder, or asking if I can assist in any way, they will NOT be doing any work for me.

You appear you have forgotten a major point. You are working in someone's home, not your own house. That fact alone gives the owner, or the person he/she designates, the right to be "up your ass".

Telling me to "leave you alone" would be enough reason for me to be looking over your shoulder. Hells Bells, I may even be prompted to take pictures of the work you did. Or at the very least, I would have asked you what you are trying to hide. And then I would have pointed out to you that you are working at MY home. Not at one of your buddies houses, not your own. But MY house.

If K4SMX did not give him a hand, that tech would still be wandering around muttering to himself, while the customer got a crap install.

And you wonder why people tell the horror stories about bad installs and installers..

[carl6]

No offense intended, but if that's your attitude that you think someone trying to give you some assistance is "up your ass", you sound like one of those installers that does an incomplete job. ... If an installer has a problem with me looking over his shoulder, or asking if I can assist in any way, they will NOT be doing any work for me.


There is a difference between looking over your shoulder, and telling you what to do.

While I tend to agree the installer referenced in the original post does seem to be lacking in ability, I also agree that a GOOD installer (technician/mechanic/plumber/whatever - pick your skill set) doesn't mind someone watching, but does mind someone interfering. I also agree a good technician always checks everything and never takes someones word for something (especially if there is a problem).

It's like the old joke, when I asked the plumber how much the repair was going to cost. $100, $250 if you help."

[tvjay]

The 119's required a tilt adjustment, which he did reluctantly, because he'd been told by his supervisor that he didn't need to worry about the 119 LOS for the SL5 anymore.

This apparently is not an uncommon thing. My friend just had an install done where the installer said you do not need 119 even though he installed a SL-5. For two weeks his receivers were restarting and complaining about guide data. He mentioned it to me one day when I was over hanging out. I explained to him why the boxes were not working, told him he should call and complain. He did and they sent out another tech who replaced the LNB with a new SL-3. My friend told the installer what I had explained to him and the installer said "your friend knows more about this then I do and should come to work for us." Now, I do not want to work outside installing satellite dishes nor do I want to work 10+ hour days as I have heard some installers do but I would like to think that if it was your job to install satellite that you would know about it. This installer also installed 3 HD receivers because he told my friend and his parents that the D10 receiver was not compatible with the new slimline LNB's. Now their bill is like $240 and they don't know why, I tried to explain but said they would be better off calling DirecTV. They did and were told if they could install the old D10 and send back the new HD receiver that they would get $70 off their bill.

[swillotter]

having a customer interested and watching you without interfering is fine. but when they start to tell me things like "I'm sure it's the LNB" then things start to go bad.....had an electrician who lost the 99 and 103 on tuner 2 of his hddvr. he insisted that it was the lnb even though when i switched cables around still only bad on tuner 2. so to humor him i switch the lnb....put up a defective lnb straight from the wherehouse. so an hour and a half later i put his lnb back up and replace the receiver everything's great. turned into a real headache because the dish was a little to high up for my ladder so was pretty unsafe to get to the lnb....the customer had put the dish up himself using wood screws, i left it like that because he was so proud of it....hey he even put up one monopole...

[bobcamp1]

I usually play dumb, and let the repairman do his job and just describe the symptoms and what I already did. They don't like to be told what to do, and they all develop an attitude very quickly.

One time though, the dishwasher repairman wouldn't replace the burnt out heating element (still under warranty). It clearly had a spot on it 1/2" long that was rusted, and it wasn't getting hot during the "heated dry" cycle at all. He measured the resistance across the element without disconnecting it first! Then I'm looking over his shoulder and it reads 10 kohms! It should easily be under 100 ohms. He said it was fine. With him I stopped playing dumb, but he still wouldn't listen! I let him leave without doing anything, after he lectured me on how it's supposed to work like that (even I had owned it for 3 years and knew it was broken). I then immediately called back and requested another repairman.

I gave the first guy a poor grade, so next time I got a senior technician. He took one look and told me my heating element was burnt out. He pointed to the same spot I noticed. He didn't bother ohming it out, he just replaced it. And of course that was the problem. He took back my old heating element to show the original guy what a bad heating element looks like.

I had to take off work TWICE because the first moron clearly didn't want to be there and refused to listen to me. So when customers are arguing with repairmen, it's because our time is limited as well and we really just want it fixed the first time.

[Bronco70]

You know it's going to be an experience when....

A few months ago I ordered another HD-DVR to feed a new plasma. Along with it ordered a powerline module for VOD. Installer shows up right on time.

First thing he takes a new dish out of the truck. "Won't need that, I tell him, already have a slimline with available ports on the Zinwell". "Zinwell ??, oh yeah that little cable box".

Takes the IRD out of the truck an HR-23, "Good won't need the external BBC's". "What's a BBC?"

Then I notice the box with the powerline module. I had thought they were shipped direct, well OK, good.

I show him where to install the DVR. He places it, pulls out the powerline adapter and plugs it into a surge protector. "No can't do that, it has to go directly to an outlet".

Plugs in the ethernet cable, stands back looking content. "Well you're all set".

No he was not kidding. "Huh?, how about a couple of runs of RG-6"?

"Oh I thought the ethernet connection was the new way"!!! Turns out he had recently been laid off from an IT position.

Proceed to show him where he has to run coax. Back of the house and up into the den. About 70'. He comes back a few minutes later to ask if it would be OK to install a second dish on the wall just outside the den. I explain no that won't work, no LOS there. You guessed it, "What's LOS"?

Long story short he did a very neat job running the coax. A pleasant fellow. Until he gets up to speed I pity the customer he faces with a difficult install.

[HoTat2]

BTW;

Related to this incident, I assume that if your receiving strong signals on 101 Ku, yet the Ka's 99a and 103b (or 99c and 103c) satellites are pretty much dead then it is a safe assumption that it can't be an LOS problem since 99 and 103 are so close to 101 (from the dish's point of view of course). I mean the Ka's LNB inputs and the 101 Ku are close enough to even share the same scaler feedhorn mouth at the LNB assembly.

Granted the Ka's higher frequencies may show somewhat different attenuation characteristics from obstacles like trees than the Ku band does, but not sufficient to have a strong reading on 101 as opposed to virtually nothing on 99 and 103.

Bottom line, a more experienced installer should have known right away that the problem lay in the cabling and not the LOS.

[Bill Broderick]

The installer was assigned SIX (!!!) jobs that day, PLUS was kept at his shop until late in the morning.


This is one place where Verizon FiOS kicks the crap out of DirecTV. When I had FiOS installed for phone & Internet, the installer told me that Verizon only assigns them one new install per day. When they finish that install, they call into the office and are assigned repairs. They expect the installs to take 4-6 hours (although non-TV installs don't take nearly that amount of time), so they don't waste the customer's time by scheduling a second installation for the installer.

[swillotter]

it is quite possible to get a great signal on 101 and 99, or 101 and 103, or the combination of any and still miss one of the others...usually won't read all zeros though...i got one of these the other day...went to replace customers old hddvr because the hard drive was making a horrible buzzing noise..installed new receiver great 101 and 103 signal...99 is in the 40's....he says he's never had a problem...go outside and there is a telephone pole blocking the 99. apparently when it was installed a couple years ago there was no IVR so it didn't fail installation. i told the customer i would have to relocate the dish...he tells me he's selling the house and doesn't want any more holes, can't i just activate it. of course ISS won't give waivers for no LOS so I decided to be nice and put a non pen mount on the ground and get signal for him. activated it then rehooked it to the dish with the poor signal ...customer was happy i told him not to let any QC's in to look at the signal strength and please don't call in if starts pixellating or whatever on 99 channels...

[FrostyMelon]

Great read. I guess I've been lucky, most of the installers addressed issue on first call (I will say I've had to call for service only a couple of times).

The only time we had an issue with an installer was back when we first started on the service (1996)...the contractor D* was going through at the time was iffy at best...guy shows up in mid-70's Monte Carlo, dumps oil on the driveway, must have had an AWESOME night since you could still smell it...then came inside and ask if he could borrow my tools since he didn't have any.

[swillotter]

sounds great frosty melon...wish i could get away with that kinda stuff...would still do a good job but might be a bit more fun

[avmaster]

i remember when on my first month i hit a billion and one line running everywhere house with hidden cables everywhere. It sucks.

But after some experience, you just know why a reciever is acting a certain way. You always know when there is a splitter or some switch hidden from you.

Sorry but that dude was a dumbass if it took him that long.

I put an end to direct's way of treating me/us. I walked away and will never look back. At a certain point, dispite how much money you may make when its 'good', its simply not enough to be stressed out about work 24/7.

[hombresoto]

Most of the mistakes i've made in my career as an installer were from a customer distracting me while i'm trying to do my job. After agreeing on what i'm going to do and how i'm going to do it, leave me alone!

[KsBillsFan]

When I did cable, the last thing I wanted was a customer or neighbor coming over to "help" me. I didn't need someone telling me what could be wrong or how to do my job. Part of the issue with this job was the fact the tech had someone looking over his shoulder the whole time trying to tell him what to do next.

Now why didn't he verify that the outlets he was using ran to his split point is unknown, as that's just basic troubleshooting/install skills. You can't assume anything in the cable/satellite business. This tech was probably new, over scheduled and probably didn't receive the best training.

I just had my service installed this past week and my installer was suppose to be at my house between 8-12. He didn't show up until 2pm. My install was simple and it took him over 2 hours to finish. He still had two more installs to finish that day.

[4120 woodrow ct]

hmmm... not to defend the installer, but I know what a pain in the butt it can be to have a tag along customer or customers friend that follows and questions every step of the install. It can make some installers lose their concentration... especially a new guy.. anyway sounds like just going back over the job, with out being bothered would have done him a world of good, along with being taught how to dither... this falls more on his supervisor then on the installer. most of them are green now a days...

[AZsatTech]

and that is why I check the feed lines before I start moving, and re-wiring things. :)

[WB6PWJ]

I am a public safety radio tech for a major city. The shop policy is that the customer has a right to watch. After a while you get used to armed officers watching your every move.

Eleven years ago I was a private tech and we could remove the customer to the waiting room. It took a long time to get used to my current setup.