Jessica Lynch - M.I.A.

[John Corn]

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/j/p/jph10/Jessica_Lynch.html

Is war "classist"? Do the poor fight for the rich?

[gcutler]

I agree, except for WWII, this century has pretty much has the poor fighting at a much greater percentage than the rich.

During vietnam, the upper and middle class had access to college defferments and then after the deferrments expired the upper class had the influence to get stationed to Air National Guard units that never would get deployed.

I even think now, while growing up in a middle class neighborhood where thanks to State Universities, everyone I knew went to college. Out of 20 males of my own or my brothers age, only my brother went and joined the military (He was a super mechanic and was recruited correctly by the AirForce believing that after 4-6 years in he could work for the Airlines)

And now looking at the kids of my brothers or my friends, I doubt that any of them will ever join the military.

In High school the #s seemed to match. Most of those who joined the military were those who really needed the college money. There were those who joined for other reasons (family history of military service, desire to join, etc) but at least in my circles were rare.

[waydwolf]

It is not necessarily true. I've known many people who held advanced college degrees and served.

Many of my family served and we've been lower to middle class for a couple centuries. Never upper class.

My own decision not to join up was born of growing up with so many servicemen among family and friends. They impressed upon me what is required to be a soldier and following orders and not creating a disruption or else people get killed in battle thanks to the problem person is important. I have a nasty morale-destroying tendency to go my own way and didn't wish to get my fellow men killed for my own willfullness.

But to those who can do it, you have the continuing gratitude of me and my family, servicemen and homebodies alike. You're doing the same job my father and grandfather did. I hope you come home like they did.

[gcutler]

Several of my friends who went to college considered joining, but when the found out a BS degree didn't guarantee an officership (maybe starting out as a corporal after basic was all it might get them) they decided to change their mind. Of course an Advanced degree would probably equal officer.

I was just relating it my circle of experience. I also have that same tendancy you have. If I was ever drafted I would be the one that gets the entire platoon punished in basic. And I finally reached the point of "Maturity" where I am willing to follow orders even though I know how stupid they are, but the last job they took it to the next level of making you follow orders you know are wrong, but then blamed you when it went wrong. Of course my inablility to accept blame for something that wasn't my fault led me to get into an argument with management and fired. I guess in the military they would have just shot me :p

[RichW]

Basic training/boot camp exists for several reasons, but the first and foremost is to learn how to obey orders without thinking about it. However, you also learn that it is not "all about you" and that you and your buddies have to work as a team and watch each others backs.

When I think about the selfish, egotistical, and unphilanthropic attitudes of todays young men, I sometimes think that two years of compulsary military service for all abled bodied men would be a good thing. It would teach discipline and self-sacrifice.

[Danny R]

Is the original "classist" quote from something found there, or is it something John was wondering?

I'm guessing the source link has changed since this post started.

[Rick_EE]

It has changed significantly.

[Richard King]

It was interesting hearing her father interviewed this morning. She was VERY gung ho about going into the service, so enthused about her future in the service that she wore a prom dress with combat boots to her high school prom. This is not something that she was forced into. Her father stated that she was looking forward to serving her country and for the opportunity that the service would provide her.

As for the services being "classist", the current all volunteer services is a great opportunity for those who serve and a way out of the situation that many find themselves trapped in. Sure, we could require universal service of all who turn 18 or 19 (the only "fair" way to even out those in the service), but then we would have the same people who complain about this being "classist" turning their wrath on the cost of having such a large force. The way to solve the cost problem would be to cut out such benies as the GI Bill education benefits, after all, the benies are no longer needed to attract people to service if everyone has to serve. This would do nothing but trap those unable to get a college education in the same trap as before they were in the service. Someone like Jessica would have to return to WV with no hope for becoming the teacher she wants to be. The solution to the "classist" military is not universal service, but a change in attitude of those in the "class" that is not serving. This has to start with changes in the college classroom and those teaching in those classrooms. So long as ROTC is banned from the campuses around the country an an open despise of all things military exists on those campuses there will be no changes.

An interesting article (registration required):
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003281

In 1957, 400 of 750 Princeton men served in the military. Last year, it was three in a class of 1,000. The statistics are depressingly similar in other Ivy League schools.

One of the many horrors of the war in Vietnam was the inequity in our fighting forces, disproportionately drawn from minority groups and those with lower levels of education. Despite the vows to correct the problem, the widespread disdain in our elite academic institutions for the military has only exacerbated it.

[Nick]

With due respect, Richard, why would I waste my time registering with the WSJ to read their "opinions". "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn'...about their opinions. Talk abut elitist!

Personally, I would like to see a waitng list for military enlistments.

[Richard King]

Actually, the article was a guest editorial from Harvard professor, REGINA E. HERZLINGER, who's son, a Harvard student (class of 2000), actually signed up for ROTC classes and training. Of course, he had to take those classes and training off campus.

Another quote from the editorial:
"I was shocked when Alex told me of his decision to enroll in ROTC," I said.

"Why don't you enlist when a noble war, like World War II, comes along?" I asked Alex. "The ROTC way you will serve at the whim of the president, no matter how distasteful you find the war."

My then-18-year-old son calmly disagreed with me. "We need a standing military to preserve democracy," he noted. "The military must serve the will of the country, not its own." Sounds like a smart 18 year old.