Fringe "The Same Old Story" 09/16/08 **Plot Spoilers may be included**

[Pink Fairy]

So what did we think ladies and gents? I like the series very much so far - its like a mix of CSI and X Files or something.

[spartanstew]

It's the type of show that bruises me.

Every 5 minutes I comment on the bad dialogue or plot holes and my wife keeps hitting me on the arm and telling me to shut up.

[K4SMX]

At least one of the script writers actually knows something about math and science. When the "mad scientist" starts counting numbers to put himself to sleep, those numbers he's reciting are Fibonacci numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_numbers). First he starts reciting them in order, starting at 1, then later randomly. Fibonacci numbers are the basis of the Golden Ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio). I use them every day, or I would have never noticed this. :)

[phrelin]

Yeah, we still like it. Yeah, there's still some plot holes. The first half of the show was a little too something. But, this was only the second episode so I give it a pass on some of the weak dialogue. The acting is good and so are the "production values."

The gross out opening was a full reminder of "X-Files" which was and is a grabber, particularly for those who don't switch from House soon enough.

There is underlying science or pseudo-science in everything they present. We got more of a feel about the back story on Dr. Walter Bishop, a vague reference to something maybe genetically hinky about Peter Bishop, And the ending leaves us with something to think about.

I keep getting thrown by Blair Brown as Nina Sharp as to me she was Molly Dodd, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't throw most people. But her role took a confusing shift in this episode with the advisory group.

At least Fox won't be canceling it soon. Between last week's premier with 9.0 million viewers and Sunday's repeat with 5.7 million viewers they got 14.7 million viewers. Last night coming out of House which got 14.7 million viewers Fringe got 13.2 million viewers, an unprecedented jump over the previous Tuesday, but not the surprise the media press makes it out to be.

I like knowing a show I like won't be canceled at the end of the third episode and Fox is terrible about that.

Whether Fringe will go more than a year will be indicated next week and the week after. In addition to the reality crap on NBC and the soap on The CW it was up against this week, next week it will be up against the new season second day showing of ABC's popular Dancing with the Stars and the premier of CBS' The Mentalist coming out of NCIS. In most households, I think next week is going to be tough for The Mentalist and Fringe.

[Stuart Sweet]

Overall, the first episode of the regular production run was superior to the pilot. It was more tightly written, even with two minutes of exposition in the beginning. There were fewer CGI location titles, which is just fine... they're distracting. The aerial shots were actually of the city of Boston, although the location shoot now looks like New York or Philadelphia more than Boston. I wish they would hire a local Bostonian to help them with locations though.

I am still confused by Nina Sharp... is she on the Pattern side or the DHS side or both? At the end of the pilot, she was preparing the transparent guy for interrogation, and then at the beginning of the first episode she is in the DHS meeting.

Overall this show is going to live or die for me based on how willing I am to accept the pseudoscience.

Some rather major problems... even if you accept that it's possible to get someone's last image from their retina then why would it be the bridge? She was awake with eyes open long after seeing the bridge. Also, you just can't make a defibrillator out of spare parts. You just can't. This is so wrong I don't know where to start.

We'll see... we'll see.

[Sirshagg]

I am still confused by Nina Sharp... is she on the Pattern side or the DHS side or both? At the end of the pilot, she was preparing the transparent guy for interrogation, and then at the beginning of the first episode she is in the DHS meeting.


This definitely had me confused too.

Then there was the job offer at the end - I'm left wondering if that was some sort of test or not.

[Koz]

The dialog on this show is killing me. And little plot holes (that are big in my mind) such as the bridge not being close to the last thing she saw as Stuart pointed out. I'm rooting for this show, but my wife and I are only going to give it one more episode.

[HD AV]

Come on people. Don't you know many writers believe the viewing public are morons that wouldn't give a second thought to what her last image was? Actually, it's the writers that are the morons for not figuring out a better story line for locating the scene of the crime. Just enjoy the show. Picking at it just detracts from the entertainment it provides. I, too, hope it survives.

[Stuart Sweet]

Picking at it just detracts from the entertainment it provides.

Perhaps for some, but for the most part I enjoy things more when they stand up to analysis.

[Charise]

I think they tried to get around the point of her retinas holding the bridge implant when Walter said that because of the drug that was injected into the victim, her eye's had been "frozen" and would hold close to the last thing that she saw, i.e., the bridge.

Not differing with the assessments of others here, just that I feel they did address the issue--unsuccessfully by the other posts. :D

[Stuart Sweet]

Yeah Charise, they did say that, but did it make sense? Didn't she sort of halfway wake up on the table and then the killer gave her more dope? Then the view would be of the killer's face, which was what I was expecting. Also this brings up that victim #2 was able to move her eyes when she was strapped in.

[Drew2k]

I don't think the meeting was a "DHS Meeting" ... I think it was more of a meeting of all those with influence who are tracking the pattern, with participants from government, private industry, academia, etc. My guess is we'll learn more about them over the next few weeks ....

[Stuart Sweet]

You are arguably right, Drew. I called it that only so we all knew what meeting I talked about. It could be that there is a secret society, let's call them "the Pentavirate," made of DHS, Massive Dynamic, and other interested parties.

[Jaspear]

I just wanna know if the woman who runs Massive Dynamic is the twin sister of the woman over on Eureka who runs Global Dynamics.

[phrelin]

I just wanna know if the woman who runs Massive Dynamic is the twin sister of the woman over on Eureka who runs Global Dynamics.No, but we are getting some kind of type casting - older redhead holds executive position in big dangerous company in scifi show.:D
http://www.phrelin.com/Dish/redheads.jpg

[Charise]

I just wanna know if the woman who runs Massive Dynamic is the twin sister of the woman over on Eureka who runs Global Dynamics.
I hadn't even thought of that! :hurah:

Didn't she sort of halfway wake up on the table and then the killer gave her more dope? Then the view would be of the killer's face, which was what I was expecting. Also this brings up that victim #2 was able to move her eyes when she was strapped in.
I thought she had moved a bit too, but people in a comatose state move, so I just suspended belief that much. What can I say? I'm easy! :rolleyes:

Actually, I was expecting the killer's face too, but that wouldn't have led them to the scene. :shrug:

[spartanstew]

but did it make sense?

Maybe I missed it (I did dose off a couple of times), but here's what bothered me the most (well, maybe not the most): This guy had been killing strippers in different hotel rooms for a long time. Why did he all of a sudden switch to the warehouse? Not just once, but twice in a row? Because something went wrong (she got pregnant and there were witnesses)? No biggie, just stop banging them first. That's not reason enough to stop using hotel rooms. Just seems like it was written that way, so he'd be easier to catch.

Here's my thoughts in a nutshell. I LOVE Lost. I was really looking forward to this show. At one point last night I said something to my wife about holes in the plot and/or dialogue and she said "So what? Suspend disbelief. Lost has holes too.".

But it doesn't. When I watch Lost, I always get the feeling that the writers are a lot smarter than I am. When I watch this show, I have the opposite feeling. That's what it comes down to. Maybe my hopes were too high. Maybe it's too early to tell. I just see a lot of sloppiness with Fringe.

[phrelin]

Here's my thoughts in a nutshell. I LOVE Lost. I was really looking forward to this show. At one point last night I said something to my wife about holes in the plot and/or dialogue and she said "So what? Suspend disbelief. Lost has holes too.".

But it doesn't. When I watch Lost, I always get the feeling that the writers are a lot smarter than I am. When I watch this show, I have the opposite feeling. That's what it comes down to. Maybe my hopes were too high. Maybe it's too early to tell. I just see a lot of sloppiness with Fringe.I think it's too early, but I see people figuring out what's going on while they're writing.

The writing credits on the first two episodes are high powered players who may be forming an unfocused committee: J.J. Abrams (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0009190/) & Alex Kurtzman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0476064/) & Roberto Orci (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0649460/). I know busy people are usually able to do alot, but these three guys have had alot going on recently. I hope they already found a supplemental writing team focused here for other episodes in the can or filming.

Thing is, Chris Carter was mostly focused on The X-Files during its whole run. Well, he did have Millennium. But he wasn't trying to produce and write a Star Trek movie and a few other challenging diverse projects.

[spunkyvision]

Do we know why he stopped killing? Didnt they say he killed a few years ago? And if he was just one brain away from being cured how did he get so old so quick? wouldnt it take longer with only one more person left to kill?
I thought I liked the show til I came in to this forum..lol

[makaiguy]

I took it that his father needed some number of pituitary glands before he could create a serum. Wasn't there a previous series of 5 murders? So he had to get his fifth (or whatever number) of murders in the current series before his father could do anything. Presumably the 'cure' is not permanent and must be re-administered periodically. Dad did ask him how bad the pain was getting.

[HDTVFreak07]

No, but we are getting some kind of type casting - older redhead holds executive position in big dangerous company in scifi show.:D
http://www.phrelin.com/Dish/redheads.jpg

My gosh! That woman on the left... wasn't she in the movie with John Belushi in "Continental Divide"? If that's her, what happened? She ballooned!

[makaiguy]

My gosh! That woman on the left... wasn't she in the movie with John Belushi in "Continental Divide"? If that's her, what happened? She ballooned!Yes, Blair Brown. Also played Jackie Kennedy in some movie or TV movie or something many years ago.

Hey, lots of us have ballooned too, since then.

[phrelin]

Many remember Blair Brown from "The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd" on NBC in 1987 and 1988 then canceled, then picked up by Lifetime for 1989 through 1991. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugn-TnP0Fo) a clip from YouTube of that show when she was in her 40's. Now she's 62. She was about 35 in "Continental Divide" and 37 in Kennedy. Golly, she is a bit heavier at 62 than she was in her late 30's and 40's. But as an actress she's still got it. Though I'm still going to have to adjust to her being a character other than Molly Dodd.

It was a quality production and considered groundbreaking. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Days_and_Nights_of_Molly_Dodd): When The Days and Nights of Molly Dodd first appeared, comedy-drama was a fairly unproven art form. Molly Dodd and its blend of comedy and drama, particularly romantic comedy and melodrama, was an influence on several subsequent programs, particularly Caroline in the City, Ally McBeal and Sex and the City.

Each year the show was on, Brown was nominated for an Emmy Award for Lead Actress in a Comedy Series.

I'd never seen anything on Lifetime until they picked up the show.

[cweave02]

Perhaps for some, but for the most part I enjoy things more when they stand up to analysis.

A disease wrought by the writers' strike - a rush to put stuff in production without dealing with quality control.

[makaiguy]

Comedy-drama fairly unproven in 1987? Maverick 1957-62 (and now showing on Encore Western).

[phrelin]

Comedy-drama fairly unproven in 1987? Maverick 1957-62 (and now showing on Encore Western).Good point. But there was 25 years between 1962 and 1987. The network suits cannot remember yesterday. And Maverick, particularly the James Garner early years, was one of the best shows ever. Never been any effort to make something like it.

[Stuart Sweet]

...unlike Fringe, which is part CSI, part X-Files, part Misfits of Science. I'm liking it, but I'm not going to tell you it's original at this point.

[phrelin]

Too bad there isn't an Emmy for the best original scripted show of the year, if any.

[Stuart Sweet]

Indeed. Congrats to Mad Men and 30 Rock for winning last night, though :)