Bad HR21-200?

[brockley]

So, I started a thread similar to this in the installation forum because I thought it had to do with my new dish and SWM install but apparently everything is fine with that. It has been suggested it might be a bad box so I thought Id throw it up in this forum since some of you might not check the install area very often. Here are my signal levels and setup.

Slimline->SWM-8(SWM1 port)->30 ft rg6->High freq barrel connector->30ft RG6->PI->1 ft RG6->HR21-200

The reason for the barrel connector is I was planning on using a SWS4 splitter for possible future expansion (i.e. next month or so my parents plan on getting an H2X and its easier to run a cable off the splitter than a new cable all the way to the SWM).

Dish type: 04: Slimline-5
Switch Type: 01: SWM
Tuners: Dual

After running the setup check, there is an error message about no signal on Tuner 2.

System Test shows:
Tuner 1: OK, Acquired at 76%
Tuner 2: OK, Acquired at 0%
Here are the signal strengths:

101

Tuner 1
95 95 92 100 92 98 94 98
95 96 94 100 95 99 92 99
94 0 94 100 95 99 94 98
94 0 93 0 95 99 91 99

Tuner 2
0 0 0 42 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 42 0 0 0 51
0 0 0 55 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51

110

Tuner 1
- - - - - - -97
- 95 - 97 - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

Tuner 2
- - - - - - -0
- 0 - 51 - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

119

Tuner 1
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - 95 86 92
0 95 95 94 95 92 82 95

Tuner 2
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 51

99c

Tuner 1
77 85 76 82 79 84 79 81
80 85 77 79 82 86 - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

Tuner 2
30 33 25 29 28 32 28 30
30 32 30 29 78 36 - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

99s

Tuner 1
95 0 95 0 92 0 - -
- - - - - - 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
- - - - - - - -

Tuner 2
44 0 44 0 40 0 - -
- - - - - - 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
- - - - - - - -

103s

Tuner 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 - -
- - - - - - 96 0
100 100 0 0 0 0 95 0
- - - - - - - -

Tuner 2
0 0 0 0 0 0 - -
- - - - - - 41 0
51 49 0 0 0 0 46 0
- - - - - - - -

103c

Tuner 1
78 86 78 81 76 85 76 82
79 85 80 83 79 87 - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

Tuner 2
29 31 28 30 27 33 27 30
29 32 30 32 24 37 - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

SWM

Tuner 1
99 99 99 95 94 94 94 94
94 - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

Tuner 2
0 0 53 0 0 48 57 53
57 - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

Everything seems to be fine for tuner 1 I think. The dish is in Napa so anyone from the bay area have an inputs on the HD sat signals? The 103c and 99c seem a little low being mostly high 70s and low 80s but all the channels come in fine right now when viewed on Tuner 1. With the barrel connector, tuner 2 comes in very choppy, 10 frames per minute with lots of pixelation and missing data if it comes in at all. When using the splitter, all the signal levels for tuner 2 on all sats and transponders are 0.

Bad HR21 bad something else???? If the HR21 is bad, how do I go about getting a replacement? Does the system test need to show the tuner is bad?

[veryoldschool]

I read both forums. :lol:
"I'd guess" that you would get 771 errors if you were to tuner to the new HD National channels.

"Normally" the tuners will swap from one to the other with every channel change.
The 771 errors message should also show which tuner [1 or 2].
If you can "lock" tuner #1 with a recording, then tuner #2 will be used for all of the channel changing.
Maybe it would be easier to first find a 771 error channel, hit record [locking this tuner] and then tune to another channel and start another recording [locking the "good" tuner]. Then go back to the first recording and delete it, which will now free up the "771" tuner [#2]. Now you should have tuner #2 as your "live" tuner for channel surfing and can look at which channels give you the problems.
If the HR21 is bad, how do I go about getting a replacement? You'll need to go through the DirecTV CSR "trip", but if you can figure out which tuner/channels are bad, it should help you "explain" to them that you have a bad receiver. I'm sure "they'll" want you to follow their troubleshooting steps [reboot etc.], but if you can list off the SAT transponders by tuner, it should get them closer [hoping that they understand a SWM system].

[brockley]

For some reason the only way I can get to tuner 1 is to record on tuner 2 and then change channels. If tuner 2 is not recording, it will stay on tuner 2 and I get a 771 on all the channels except now with the barrel connector they all tune but with lots of pixelation and stuttering. When running through the splitter, there is no signal at all and the 771 message is constant. If I can get through the runaround and get this replaced, will they send a truck or ship me a new one?

[veryoldschool]

For some reason the only way I can get to tuner 1 is to record on tuner 2 and then change channels. If tuner 2 is not recording, it will stay on tuner 2 and I get a 771 on all the channels except now with the barrel connector they all tune but with lots of pixelation and stuttering. When running through the splitter, there is no signal at all and the 771 message is constant. If I can get through the runaround and get this replaced, will they send a truck or ship me a new one?
"They should" drop ship you a replacement within 2-3 days [FedEx].
"Option 2" is that they want a tech to come back out and prove what you already know. This "might" get the receiver swapped off his truck, but then again, I've seen them just call back in to DirecTV and tell them it's a bad box and have DirecTV do what "they should have" in the first place.

[Supervolcano]

"Normally" the tuners will swap from one to the other with every channel change.
veryoldschool,

I think this was somehow changed a couple months ago.
Not sure if it was a design change or a mistake.

All I know is I had some signal issues at some point in the relatively recent past (when not recording anything) and every channel change kept using the same tuner (even though both tuners were enabled).

This happened to me several times, so it wasn't a one-time fluke, and makes me believe there is now a true "primary" and "secondary" tuner.

---------------------

In fact, just now I pulled my sat cable and got Searching on Tuner #1.
Changed channel several times and stayed Searching on Tuner #1.
Changed channel to an OTA local, pic came in.
Changed to sat channel, and .... no searching nags and no pic.
Changed channel to another OTA local, pic came in.
Changed channel to another OTA local, pic came in.
Changed to sat channel, and .... no searching nags and no pic.
;) Gotta love these bugs :D

[veryoldschool]

veryoldschool,

I think this was somehow changed a couple months ago.
Not sure if it was a design change or a mistake.

All I know is I had some signal issues at some point in the relatively recent past (when not recording anything) and every channel change kept using the same tuner (even though both tuners were enabled).

This happened to me several times, so it wasn't a one-time fluke, and makes me believe there is now a true "primary" and "secondary" tuner.

---------------------

In fact, just now I pulled my sat cable and got Searching on Tuner #1.
Changed channel several times and stayed Searching on Tuner #1.
Changed channel to an OTA local, pic came in.
Changed to sat channel, and .... no searching nags and no pic.
Changed channel to another OTA local, pic came in.
Changed channel to another OTA local, pic came in.
Changed to sat channel, and .... no searching nags and no pic.
;) Gotta love these bugs :D
SWM or non SWM?
Since I'm on SWM, I can no longer check "normally".

[bakers12]

Try this if you haven't already done it.

Unplug the PI for about 30 seconds then plug it back in. Do a reset on the HR21-200 using the menu.

If this doesn't fix it, you've probably got a hardware problem. I would blame the tuner first.

[Supervolcano]

SWM or non SWM?
Since I'm on SWM, I can no longer check "normally".
I'm on SWM8, but even so, a year ago when I got the SWM, it used to swap tuners with every single channel change, and now it apparently doesn't.

Something changed, and I almost positive it was within the last few months.

Maybe this is one of the reasons we are getting so many complaints about 771 nags (and/or black nagless screens and/or blank recordings), meaning maybe there are a few little flaws in the way they reworked the process. Like for example the black "nagless" screen I now get when disconnecting the sat input and switch from a SAT channel to an OTA channel and back to a SAT channel as I described. I didn't mention it before, but even that first and second time I switched to the OTA channel, I still got black screen, I had to change it a few times before the OTA finally decided to give picture.
;)
BTW - I only really posted this for your personal knowledge VOS. Stick it in the back of your brain somewhere. If anyone else is reading this too, more power to you guys as well.

[brockley]

I have turned off the PI and reset the HR21 about 20 times the past day or two. Next I will run directly from the dish to both tuners and see what I get.

[brockley]

So, I now have system set up as follows, Slimline->WB68 (not enough barrel connectors around)->2 cables to HR21 with BBCs. Tuner 2 seems to be working fine now. Have had 2 shows recording and switched the channels on one, then recorded it and stopped the other and changed channels to isolate both tuners. Have tried various HD channels and all seems fine. Had a short 771 message on tuner 2 for 209 (espn2) but changed channels and back and it works fine now. Havent seen another 771 message over 10 minutes.

Has this eliminated the tuner from the equation or do the tuners work differently when it comes to SWM? I know theres only 1 cable so somehow both tuners are channeled through 1 coaxial input/output.

Those of oyu in the know about the whole technical side of SWM, did removing the SWM and showing tuner 2 works with a direct cable show that the SWM might be faulty? Or could tuner 2 still be faulty when being used through the SWM setup?

Thanks again for all your help and insight.

[veryoldschool]

I'm still leaning toward the "SWM bridging" in the receiver as being defective.
What are the levels on the "SWM page" in the signal levels screens?

[bakers12]

I'm still leaning toward the "SWM bridging" in the receiver as being defective.
What are the levels on the "SWM page" in the signal levels screens?
From post #1:

SWM

Tuner 1
99 99 99 95 94 94 94 94
94 - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

Tuner 2
0 0 53 0 0 48 57 53
57 - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - -

[veryoldschool]

The SWM doesn't seem to be the problem.

[brockley]

So should I call and try to get a replacement sent or just live with the second cable run to my receiver? I would prefer to use the SWM and I have a bunch of shows to watch on the current HR that I want to keep. Any way to transfer those without voiding the warranty and opening the box and swapping drives?

[veryoldschool]

So should I call and try to get a replacement sent or just live with the second cable run to my receiver? I would prefer to use the SWM and I have a bunch of shows to watch on the current HR that I want to keep. Any way to transfer those without voiding the warranty and opening the box and swapping drives?
"If it were me": I'd be on the phone for a replacement.
Even if you pulled the drive out, you won't have access to your recordings, as they're coded to the receiver.
Short of the painful SD playback to DVD/PC, I don't know of any way to save your recordings.

[Rich]

"If it were me": I'd be on the phone for a replacement.
Even if you pulled the drive out, you won't have access to your recordings, as they're coded to the receiver.
Short of the painful SD playback to DVD/PC, I don't know of any way to save your recordings.

Agreed with just about everything you said. The only thing I doubt is that he will get a replacement in 2 to 3 days. Been my experience that only happens if you have the Protection Plan. Otherwise, D* is gonna insist on sending out one of their ace installers and after he screws around for a while, he will give him a replacement. If he gets an appointment in a week, he'll be lucky.

Rich

[veryoldschool]

Agreed with just about everything you said. The only thing I doubt is that he will get a replacement in 2 to 3 days. Been my experience that only happens if you have the Protection Plan. Otherwise, D* is gonna insist on sending out one of their ace installers and after he screws around for a while, he will give him a replacement. If he gets an appointment in a week, he'll be lucky.

Rich
I've had it both ways.
FedEx in 2-3 and a six week wait for an installer with brand new box.
[And you know I don't have the PP] :lol:

"Also" with the right CSR, they will understand this is a receiver SWM issue.

[Rich]

I've had it both ways.
FedEx in 2-3 and a six week wait for an installer with brand new box.
[And you know I don't have the PP] :lol:

I wonder if they have some accounts "flagged". Two years ago I had to go thru hell to get a replacement thru the PP and now I get the replacements without an argument. And two weeks ago I got two in one week. No arguments, no suggestions to do something stupid such as reformatting the disc, just sent the replacements.

Rich

[brockley]

Any reason to add the protection plan to guarantee getting one sent out ASAP? Would they send the receiver to the address on the account? I am using my box at my parents for a couple weeks until I move to a new house and have my account transferred over. I also wouldnt want them to send a tech to the address on the account because I am not there. And I want to wait to transfer until I have a place to move into.

[Rich]

Any reason to add the protection plan to guarantee getting one sent out ASAP? Would they send the receiver to the address on the account? I am using my box at my parents for a couple weeks until I move to a new house and have my account transferred over. I also wouldnt want them to send a tech to the address on the account because I am not there. And I want to wait to transfer until I have a place to move into.

Now there's a question I've never heard. So, you're basically (tho without malice, I trust) not adhering to D*s rules. Huh. Wonder if you called and told them the truth and signed up for the PP (which is a really handy thing to have, unless you're...:eek2:) if they'd go along with that? You would definitely get the replacement faster with the PP and they might just do it. Or they could call the Satellite Police and have your mote impounded :lol:.

Well, if you don't try it we'll never know. Go for it. The truth usually prevails.

Rich

[brockley]

Yeah. Didnt make sense to start the directv move process when I dont really have a place to move to. And I can install a dish myself so I set it up for the short term until I get moved. As long as I am still paying directv for my account, it shouldnt matter where the receiver is as long as I am not "sharing" with neighbors and friends.

[Karnis]

What is the internal temp (check the info & test screen)? I had similar problems with a flakey tuner 2 until I ran a fan next to the rcvr to cool it. If it is ~97' you should try to cool it. Mine went down to 86' & it works perfect.

[brockley]

Its usually above 100. Having to run a fan is not normal operation. To me that equals a faulty receiver. The box is in a tv stand on a glass shelf with open front, side, and back. I would open it up to make sure there isnt a bunch of dust caked on the fan or other parts but that is illegal.

[Karnis]

My response wasnt to you directly, but more of a general response for others who have posted in this thread. However, don't discount it until you try it. ;) I agree that having to run a fan is not "normal" but the box itself has lousy air venting and a cheap fan, and I know for a fact that lowering the internal temp has not only improved my rcvr performance, but others as well have posted success by additional cooling.
Besides, you've tried everything else, what's one more easy experiment?

[veryoldschool]

Really it's only the H20-600 that has a cooling "issue". All of the other receivers seem to work fine with "normal" air flow.

[brockley]

I dont really feel like crawling through the attic to unhook the wb68 and reattach the swm. Also, I get perfect reception on tuner 2 using the WB68 which shows the tuner is not at fault but most likely some internal switching having to do with the SWM function in the receiver. Again, I do not want to have a fan permanently running to make my box function normally. I will start the process of calling and trying to get a box sent ot me and avoid a truck rolling which will probably delay someone else's more pressing service call or install. With my own knowledge and the help of this forum, I know what is wrong and I believe DirectTV should honor that and send me a new box and save everyone on their end a lot of work. They get a box that they probably wont touch and send back out as a refurb which will work for 95% of homes it would be used in, only has problems with SWM. And I get a new box that should work fine in my situation.

[veryoldschool]

You know what the problem is. Once you find the right CSR that can understand "your problem", you should be able to have the replacement delivered to your "work address". :)

[Rich]

Its usually above 100. Having to run a fan is not normal operation. To me that equals a faulty receiver. The box is in a tv stand on a glass shelf with open front, side, and back. I would open it up to make sure there isnt a bunch of dust caked on the fan or other parts but that is illegal.

I agree. Mine all run around 115 degrees and I have no problems. I have had one 20-700 with an FAP attached and it read a constant 123 degrees and ran perfectly for over a year. There was a whole thread about temperature adversely affecting the HRs and nobody ever reached a conclusion.

Anybody got a fan on his TV? How about installing a fan on the audio system? Why not mount them all in a refrigerator? Then you can put a fan on the refrigerator. Why should you have to purchase additional equipment to make a device run properly?

As for opening your HR up, it's not "illegal" in the strict meaning of the word. D* didn't pass a law that prohibits opening a box up. As a matter of fact, for all the people worried about heating problems, the HRs will definitely run cooler with the top off.

Rich

[Rich]

You know what the problem is. Once you find the right CSR that can understand "your problem", you should be able to have the replacement delivered to your "work address". :)

You are a sly fox!

Rich

[brockley]

Yes, definitely something to keep in mind.