My Thoughts on Charlie

[ScottieOne]

The last few days or so I have been analyzing DISH and DirecTV. I am not writing this thread intending to launch a debate about which is better because I don't think either one is better than the other. They both have flaws that is for sure. That being said, I'd like to throw my two cents in. I've had DISH since December 1997 and been through the upgrades from AT 50 to AT 100 to AT 150. It has definately been a pleasant experience. As of late, I have been questioning Charlie's business model. I read the press release by DTV regarding College Sports TV (CSTV) and that added further disappointment to the disappointment I am beginning to feel with DISH. I also read the *rumor* that DirecTV will be adding ESPN-HD to their lineup. This comes as another disappointment. I am not saying that my feelings are coming from my personal viewing of sports. It just seems to me that DirecTV right now has edged out DISH on the value factor. I completely respect Charlie's business practices and his feelings belief in his company. I no longer feel that the interest of DISH's customers are truly at heart. I also live in the NYC area and I am effected by the YES situation. While the terms for YES may indeed be unacceptable, Charlie clearly does not want to spend on anything other than a new shopping network. I mean how difficult is it really for DISH to add Trio, Oxygen, YES etc. While you can go on and on saying how DISH doesn't want to take a loss, I feel that more and more channels will be created and DTV will get them long before DISH ever does. Reality is really starting to sink in. You hold out hope that channels will come and the ones you don't have but you want dont seem to show up. Just wanted to start a discussion, not a slander of either provider.

[lee635]

I understand your concerns. But I'm concerned about price increases. E* continues to offer its AT50 which is quite a bit cheaper than D* entry level offering.

[tampa8]

And their top 150 with HBO/CINEMAX is a very good value. I agree, both have strong points. I guess if you want the channels you mentioned your choice is made for you. If I didn't want HBO/CINEMAX I might think Choice Plus was a better value. All in what you want, but that is what choice is about.

[Steve Mehs]

Currently there are no new channels I want, at this point I just want improved picture quality. The two channels I've wanted for a while are now dead (MTVX) and have never been launched (Crime Channel). Yes, you have to keep with with your competition, but currently there's only something like 8 national channels (not including public interest) that DirecTV has that Dish doesn't.

[HTguy]

There is no reason to believe that DirecTV will have ESPN-HD and that DISH won't. Say what you will about Charlie, he really does seem to be committed to offering up the most HD content. I believe he knows this is neccesary to compete w/D* & cable.

YES is a different situation. The economics weren't good for E* so if you live around NY & are a big Yankee fan I would agree that you have an incentive to change providers.

And I also wonder why E* can't come to terms with Oxygen, Trio and PBS Kids. It's been a lot longer than in the past for adding a significant channel to AT100 or AT150 and with all the new subscribers coming in it seems like they ought to be able to afford 1 or 2 of these.

I should think that PBS Kids would qualify as a PA channel like PBS YOU but I'm no expert in programming costs.

[FTA Michael]

Originally posted by HTguy
I should think that PBS Kids would qualify as a PA channel like PBS YOU but I'm no expert in programming costs.Alas, it has two strikes against it as a public interest channel. First, the PI rules say the DBS providers can't use more than one channel per provider (unless all other channels dry up and blow away), so PBS You precludes PBS Kids as a PI-requirement-satisfier. Second, Charlie has repeatedly complained that PBS Kids costs too much money, and even D* has it on its second tier, suggesting that it really does cost something.

I predict that E* will add _something_ to AT100 or AT150 in the next, oh, three months to throw us a bone. Whether that's College Sports Network, or Trio, or PBS Kids, or America One, you never know.

[Mark Hopkins]

The thing that irritates me about Dish is they are somewhat ignoring the "middle-end customers". They are agressively pushing the $25 a month package and agressively pushing the highpriced and HD programming as well as the $1000 921 which obviously is geared towards high end users. Directv seems concentrated on these middle of the road customers who want the AT100/TC package and can pay $35 a month and nothing more. They don't push their premiums as much as Dish does either, they just want simple middle customers which Dish is completely ignoring. TC blows AT100 away without a doubt and Dish seems to not have any interest in fixing this problem. However it is hard to argue with Dish's strategy as they are killing Direct in the new sub numbers, I just find it unusual that Dish ignores the middle of the road customers that Direct targets so agressively.

[rolou21]

Hey like I said.....I was with dish for 5 years and TOTALLY got fed up with cheap charlie....Receivers crashing...constantly re-booting it......satellite problems...shuffling the birds around.....Went back to Direct and NEVER will I go back! Direct may cost more, but they are stable equiptment wise and have the Yes with 6 mos. Hbo/TCP W/Locals promotion.....
If any of you feel fed up then change to Direct with an HDVR2 and you will never be sorry!

[John T]

I live on LI, use E* and would love to get YES but... I will not make provider changes for SD content. Having all the Yanks home games on MSG-HD for a couple years spoiled me and SD won't cut it. I'll survive w/radio CBS/FOX & ESPN.

I'm willing to give E* more time to develop the HD side. Assembling a basket of HD programming is what will make it fly and Charlie seems to want to 'nickel & dime' the content providers to make it happen. He'll look like a smart man if a basket of fruit (HD Content) can be offered when the 921 streets.

[Jacob S]

I think you can watch America One FTA or on the internet for free yet they do not offer it in a basic package? That seems aweful odd not doesn't it? Maybe there is not much demand for the channel.

[reddice]

Don't forget that cheap charlie blacks out all the yankees games on espn and wspk superstation which is suppose to be part of the AT100 package and superstation package, cheapo. He loves to give you the blackout screen on your tv.

[Whammy]

Originally posted by reddice
Don't forget that cheap charlie blacks out all the yankees games on espn and wspk superstation which is suppose to be part of the AT100 package and superstation package, cheapo. He loves to give you the blackout screen on your tv.

Yes but it is not Charlie who decides to blackout the games, it is the MLB that requests blackouts. Therefore, you should go after MLB, not Charlie.

[Steve Mehs]

If ESPN is showing a game that is carried by a regional sports net or OTA local in your area, by ruling ESPN has to be blacked out. Doesn't matter, if it's E*, D* or cable. The WSBK situation is unique in the terms of agreement with the team and networks. Charlie doesn't blackout anything, rights holders do.

[hectorshelagh2001]

I think Charlie is a PORNDOG!
He started out in DBS porn free ...
Then voila - porn, porn, and more PORN!

This character just can't program enuff porn - or so it seems from my vantage point.

I think we should all petition EchoStar - demanding they drop all porn programming PERIOD EXCLAMATION POINT

[Steve Mehs]

:rolleyes: There's only SIX (6) damn channels, get over it!

[Yanks]

I think he should trade 3 porn channels for the YES Network. Or trade 2 porno channels and a Lifetime for the YES Network.

[TerryC]

Originally posted by hectorshelagh2001

This character just can't program enuff porn

Hmm, I might have to look into switching back to Dish. :rolleyes:

[alfbinet]

Hector, if you don't want to watch porn...don't watch it. I believe you have to pay for those channels. Are you the guy that is "so weak" you can't resist putting down those extra greenbacks for your fix? Do you have a problem with magazines as well? Get over it!

[Marcus S]

Lock the receiver, lock channel 490, and WALLA they disappear from the Guide.

[Jacob S]

Someone had mentioned a while back that he promised not to add porn channels, look what happened. I am not saying I am against it or anything, just stating that.

[AllieVi]

Originally posted by hectorshelagh2001
I think Charlie is a PORNDOG!
He started out in DBS porn free ...
Then voila - porn, porn, and more PORN!

This character just can't program enuff porn - or so it seems from my vantage point.

I think we should all petition EchoStar - demanding they drop all porn programming PERIOD EXCLAMATION POINT If Charlie is making lots of money on porn, I say we need MORE porn channels, not less. Those who are willing to pay are essentially subsidizing the cost of other programming. It's not as though porn wouldn't be available if Charlie didn't provide it.

[Jacob S]

It is subsidizing his pockets. More money for him to keep. Do you actually think he is subsidizing all the extra money he is getting on the shopping and porn channels? The new thing is the advertising they are going to start doing on Dish, I seen it somewhere on the internet if I recall. When I mean him, I mean him and his company. It is just more of a profit that is wanting to be made. Just because he is making more money off of a certain set of channels does not change the fact that he is making not as much on another set of channels when his price goes up, therefore causing a price increase. We have seen it the past couple three years.

[Nick]

Some people like corndogs and some people like porn dogs. To each, his or her own, as it were.

Hey Hector, did you hear the one about the preacher and the organist?

[Jacob S]

I think that it should be a choice for people, that people are free to make their choice, and if one does not want it, then do not buy it and lock the channels out.

[hectorshelagh2001]

When DISH first started out it was the porn free alternative to DirecTV ... Mother Angelica/EWTN actually had the DISH people on her network -

All I'm saying is Charlie hoodwinked people of good will into thinking they were associating themselves with a company with solid moral values.

Charlie is a PORNDOG!

[Marcus S]

You have the choice to block all offensive material from the Guide and block programming offensive to you, at the same time you are asking any corporation to have moral values. If we lived in the land of scifi as prescribed by Focus on the Family, no one would have any choices. But then ABC claims to be Jesus, I simply do not watch their programming and then I could also purchase a porn channel and then be horribly offended at it's content at the same time.

[Mark Holtz]

IIRC, the adult channels (or porn) is not part of any English-language "America's Top" or "America's Everything" package that Dish offers. (Although, with some people calling Cinemax "Skinamax" for certain risque things). Playboy en Espanol, however, is included in the Dos Latino packages.

However, the Spice, Exxtasy, etc. channels must be purchased seperately. Dish even charges $10 instead of $5 if you unsubscribe to an adult channel. And, whether you like it or not, adult material does sell.

So, if Charlie can get porn channels, why not the YE$ Network, the entire Cleveland Indians games on that R$N, or such. Simple: YE$ and the R$Ns insist on being part of a tiered channel whether or not the subscriber wishes to see the channel. YE$ has refused a la carte carriage, and wants $2 per subscriber. E$PN is part of AT-50. R$Ns are part of AT-100. This is on top of the advertising that is part of the channel.

[Steve Mehs]

Hector, what's your problem? This is now the third thread in a few weeks. If you don't like porn, don't pay the outrageous prices. Yes, E* started out porn free, but times change. D* has the same amount of adult programming, if not one or two channels more, most cable systems carry Playboy and some Spice networks. If you don't like porn or being associated with it, why the hell are you even on the internet? The net has way more adult material then any channel on E*. Sex sells get over it!

[Mike D-CO5]

AMEN!!!! Steve pass me the tissues.

[RichW]

Folks continually question Charlie's "business model" because they can't get the channels they want, Dish has channels they don't want (like porn and shopping channels), Dish can't come to agreement on certain carriage arrangements, or because the PQ is not sterling enough for big screens.

But the fact remains that, with this business model, Dish continues to increase its market share. The level of dissatisfaction expressed here is not indicative of the total market. So tehy must be doing something right.

[blingbling]

Originally posted by RichW
Folks continually question Charlie's "business model" because they can't get the channels they want, Dish has channels they don't want (like porn and shopping channels), Dish can't come to agreement on certain carriage arrangements, or because the PQ is not sterling enough for big screens.

But the fact remains that, with this business model, Dish continues to increase its market share. The level of dissatisfaction expressed here is not indicative of the total market. So tehy must be doing something right.

Market share continues to outpace D*. The stock price has soared. The debt rating has been upgraded. All of this after a $600 million charge for a failed merger.

I truly hope News Corp. buys D* so the good ole boy from Tennessee can give Rupert Murdoch a lessen in Business 101.

[hectorshelagh2001]

DISH should go back to the future - DUMP all its porn programming - and market itself as the dbs porn free alternative.

Charlie is a PORNDOG!

Shame !
Shame !!
Shame !!!

[platinum]

Originally posted by hectorshelagh2001
DISH should go back to the future - DUMP all its porn programming - and market itself as the dbs porn free alternative.

Charlie is a PORNDOG!

Shame !
Shame !!
Shame !!!

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

[hectorshelagh2001]

Originally posted by platinum


If you don't like it, don't watch it.

It not just for me ... I think Charlie Ergen should be a humanitarian and prevent everyone from tuning into porn tv.

They say "sex sells" ... well so does NFL and MLB ... but, Charlie doesn't seem to have lost many customers to DTV despite not having these two propoerties.

Charlie Ergen is a PORNDOG
And you're either pro-porn or anti-porn ... their is no pro-choice. Pro-choice on porn is PRO-PORN!
Anyone who isn't anti-porn is a porndog, like Charlie Ergen!

Thanx ...

Sincerely

Hec

[Mark Lamutt]

Hector.

Item (h) of our terms of service:

h) All off topic discussions that don't break any of the above rules will get moved to the Potpourri forum so it may continue. If a thread is moving along productively and is suddenly "spammed" by someone for no good reason, the individual message will get deleted and the thread will stay in place (Spam in this case means an off topic very harsh attack on other people or a comment that doesn't serve any purpose except to disrupt the thread). The administrator reserves the right to leave any off topic thread in any forum if he feels it's serving a valuable purpose.

Your posts are bordering on defamatory, and serve no purpose other than to spam this thread. If you do it again, your posts will be deleted. If you do it again after that, you will be deleted. This is your warning.

If you don't like the porn, don't watch it. Don't pay for it. And if you see something you find offensive on any channel, change the channel. If you are so offended by the porn being available to those who don't find it offensive, change services. Or better yet, dump all services and go back to an OTA antenna.

[hectorshelagh2001]

Hey folks ...

I apologize if I seemed a little harsh in my last post ...

PS ... I think someone needs to change Elliots litter box- P.U.!

[Jacob S]

YES is not being offered because they wanted to be in the basic tiers therefore wanting money from EVERY subscriber in which would result in a rate increase.

However when that is said it has been asked several times why DirecTv offers it and Dish does not without raising its rates anymore than Dish had.

[TerryC]

And it's been answered several times.

DirecTV doesn't seem to be interested in being a financially stable company. Dish does. That's why, in comparison to DirecTV's foolhardy spendthrift practices, Charlie Ergen is labeled as "cheap".

DirecTV can afford YES less than Dish, but they spend the money (that they don't have) anyway.

[Yankees]

What makes me angry is that Charlie can afford this station. Isn't he a billionaire? That is why some of us see him as being cheap. Also I don't think he ever had any intentions on getting YES. He just kept making excuses of why he couldn't do it.

The biggest excuse he had for not getting YES was because he did not want to raise our rates but he still did...I don't get it!

[TerryC]

Originally posted by Yankees
...I don't get it!
1) He's a billionaire in assets, not liquid cash.

2) $600 million...

3) He's "cheap".

I understand your frustration, but I think this is the best business decision for him.

[Jacob S]

Charlie makes decisions on his own for the company where DirecTv seems to have decisions made by a group of people it seems to me.

[Marcus S]

It sums up to you have a choice to block or not watch channels that displease you or your family, or go live in Iraq.

[Cheyenne]

Ditto, RichW...
Bunch of damn whiners...

[AllieVi]

Originally posted by Yankees
What makes me angry is that Charlie can afford this station. Isn't he a billionaire? That is why some of us see him as being cheap. Also I don't think he ever had any intentions on getting YES. He just kept making excuses of why he couldn't do it.

The biggest excuse he had for not getting YES was because he did not want to raise our rates but he still did...I don't get it! YES could have chosen to be carried a la carte, but declined. It was a good decision for the vast majority of DISH subscribers. People should be angy with YES for insisting on on full coverage, not with Charlie for rejecting the arrangement.

[JStanton]

Originally posted by Yankees
What makes me angry is that Charlie can afford this station. Isn't he a billionaire? That is why some of us see him as being cheap. Also I don't think he ever had any intentions on getting YES. He just kept making excuses of why he couldn't do it.

The biggest excuse he had for not getting YES was because he did not want to raise our rates but he still did...I don't get it!
This is unbelieveable! Have any of you people ever worked for a company bigger than 2 people? What makes you think that the net worth of the CEO of a multi-million dollar/year in revenue company has anything to do with their business decisions. Do you really think that George Steinbrenner and Charlie are sitting around throwing back some beers and Charlie won't pull out his wallet?

Seriously, do you have any idea how inter-company negotiations happen?

There is a team of many, many lawyers on both sides negotiating very fine points of a lengthy contract. There are tens of thousands of dollars spent on coming up with detailed revenue models with and without this channel. There are untold legal manhours dedicated to figuring out what the best course of action is. About the time the CEO gets involved is when it's time to make the press release.

Does this make sense? What are you suggesting that "Cheap Charlie" do?

- Subsidize echostar's programming with his personal money? Usually money flows from Company -> Employee, not the other way around. (At least not in an established, non-startup company.)

- Force his programming department to make bad business decisions? If he didn't agree with the decisions of the programming and legal departments, he'd have them replaced and then delegate the responsiblily to a new group of people, not make all of the 1,000,000s of small decisions a company of Echostar's size makes himself.

- Jim

[Richard King]

Ah, the voice of reality and reason. Thanks Jim

[BobMurdoch]

Originally posted by hectorshelagh2001
I think Charlie is a PORNDOG!
He started out in DBS porn free ...
Then voila - porn, porn, and more PORN!

This character just can't program enuff porn - or so it seems from my vantage point.

I think we should all petition EchoStar - demanding they drop all porn programming PERIOD EXCLAMATION POINT

OK Hector we know how you feel. But you don't hear atheists demanding that religious channels be removed, sports fans demanding that other non-sports channels be removed, Democrats demanding that FoxNews be removed, etc.

If you don't like 'em don't subscribe. Last year, the porn industry grossed over $12 Billion in the US. Mainstream Hollywood grossed less than that with ALL of it's theatrical releases. SOMEONE is buying this. Plus if someone wants to subscribe to TEN, XTCY, AND Playboy then that subscriber will generate almost $60 a month for THREE channels. That keeps the rest of your bills lower than they might be otherwise.

SO, set your adult guard to block the channels, take a pill, and relax. Life's tough, wear a helmet.

[BobMurdoch]

Originally posted by AllieVi
YES could have chosen to be carried a la carte, but declined. It was a good decision for the vast majority of DISH subscribers. People should be angy with YES for insisting on on full coverage, not with Charlie for rejecting the arrangement.

I've been saying this all along. George is the villain, not Charlie or Jim Dolan from Cablevision. Jim offered to carry the channel a la carte and let George set the price and give HIM 100% OF THE PROCEEDS. This was an extraordinary offer which I can't believe didn't get more press coverage. But still, the NJ legislature tries to force Cablevision to capitulate.

What I'd rather see is something Senator McCain is pushing. Unbundle the channels and let us buy them a la carte. Hey, if you can't implement this for all of the channels, then at least allow it for any channels that cost more than $1 a month. Why is the free market able to function so well in so many other sectors of the economy, yet function so poorly when it comes to broadcasting that the FCC has to decide for them?

[Jacob S]

Best business decision for him? What about best business decision for the consumers?

If porn is against some peoples beliefs then perhaps the christian channels are against some peoples beliefs as well and against heir religion so maybe we should remove those too. Then we should remove all those channels that have violence, cussing, etc. You cannot remove everything, but people have the choice in what they want, you can block the channels, not order them, etc.

McCain has the right idea, unbundle the channels and also offer them in a bundle for a discount in what we now see them in packages. Have ala carte be an option. This way there would be more competition with pricing from the channels for your business and the prices would drop. If there is no competition by channels saying their channels has to be in this package or that package then they can raise the price when they want passing it onto the consumer. If it is available ala carte then the consumer can choice not to buy that channel, causing the channel to offer better programming and/or better pricing to attract the consumer more. This could also help bring about better programming as well.

[abospaum]

Originally posted by Steve Mehs
If ESPN is showing a game that is carried by a regional sports net or OTA local in your area, by ruling ESPN has to be blacked out. Doesn't matter, if it's E*, D* or cable. The WSBK situation is unique in the terms of agreement with the team and networks. Charlie doesn't blackout anything, rights holders do.

Steve- you are only partially correct. MLB and the other leagues do determine what the local viewing area is but cable doesn't black anyone out. I used to live in Southern NJ and I had MSG and Fox Sports New York. The Yankees, Mets and Knicks games were always broadcast with cable and never with satellite. It seems that cable simply has one signal and cannot block out based upon zip codes like satellite can.

This really sucked because I couldn't even get Comcast Sports (which has all the Philly teams) so in essence I was blacked out from every sporting event that wasn't nationally broadcast.

There is a solution to blackouts. It may not be legal but I'm not sure that its not. Report to Dish that you've moved. Give them a friend's address in the region where you want your broadcasts and no longer will you be blacked out. Just have credit card auto-pay and you don't need to worry about the bills.

[Steve Mehs]

Yes you are correct, I was thinking in terms of DBS only. I was in a similar situation with cable. TW carried MSG out here and everything was blackout free, for the most part, if I ordered the sports pack on E*, all pro sports on MSG would be blacked out. But when the Rangers were on ESPN and the game was also on MSG, ESPN would be blacked out on cable.

[Geronimo]

Hector is obsessed with porn. He posts on several forums about it. As someone else pointed out he is too weak to reisst it.

[Jacob S]

Maybe its more of thoughts on porn than thoughts of Charlie, lol.

[cnsf]

Just a comment.....

Porn is like hard drive space....you can never buy too much...

;)

[Jacob S]

Lol, or like money, you cant ever have enough.

[hectorshelagh2001]

Hey ...

FYI ... I don't have DBS
I do have Comcast
I don't have any porn channels
I have never rented an 'adult' film
I have never subscribed to any internet adult pay sites
I have however 'surfed' the net ...

I'm not who you think I am ...
I have given up 'surfing' the net for Lent.

[dishrich]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Hector is obsessed with porn. He posts on several forums about it.

I guess when you're unemployed out in Boston, you have LOTS of time on your hands to do things like this... (at least THAT'S what his profile says on one of the boards) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Profile for Bert Gordon
Member Status: Member
Member Number: 5978
Registered: 12-10-2002
Posts: 34
Email Address: hectorshelagh@yahoo.com
Location: Suburban Boston MA
Occupation: unemployed
Interests: music, football, net surfing

Gave up surfing for lent? How are you posting on this forum? Osmosis...

[gcutler]

Originally posted by hectorshelagh2001
Hey ...

FYI ... I don't have DBS
I do have Comcast...

Two Questions...

1) Have you ever had DBS or are you contemplating getting DBS? If not why are you even posting here??

2) What in your opinion differentiates a Good Midget Orgy film from a Great Midget Orgy film.

[alfbinet]

gcutler, this is for Hector/Bert: What differentiates a Good Midget Orgy film from a Great Midget Orgy film is the size of the Midget's cock! Just because the actor is "small" does not necessarily mean he is "small". Sorry, for the post but this guy really grates.

[TerryC]

Originally posted by gcutler

Have you ever had DBS or are you contemplating getting DBS? If not why are you even posting here??

Can you say "troll"?

[Jacob S]

That is what I was wondering when I read that, why would one be here if they do not have dbs or any involvement in dbs or does not show interest in it?

Although it would be good to attract those that do not have dbs as well because there are other topics on this site and also it could give someone some insight on dbs that could cause them to buy it as well.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by alfbinet
gcutler, this is for Hector/Bert: What differentiates a Good Midget Orgy film from a Great Midget Orgy film is the size of the Midget's c*ck! Just because the actor is "small" does not necessarily mean he is "small". Sorry, for the post but this guy really grates.

So have you spoken to Hector/Bert to get his opinion of what makes a Great Midget Orgy Films, or are you just assuming what type of film he likes??? If not, you should not be answering questions for him, that would just be rude! :hi: