View Full Version : 3LNB Install on 5LNB dish
Forgive me if this has been on the forum already...
I am awaiting an install for tomorrow and they are probably coming with a 5LNB dish, so I purchased a 3LNB from ebay and received it today....My question is can anybody help me with installing this part on the dish, in case my installer has no clue of what to do.
Thanks in advance for your help
If they bring and install a 5 LNB dish, and it works, there is really no reason to go with the 3 LNB.
If they can't get 110/119 with the 5 LNB, the installer should not object to using the 3-LNB. It fits in the same physical location and connects the same way as the 5-LNB.
Carl
If they can't get 110/119 with the 5 LNB, the installer should not object to using the 3-LNB.
If they bring a 5-LNB and you don't have an LOS to 110/119, but don't need 110/119, does it effectively behave like a 3-LNB dish thereafter?
If they bring a 5-LNB and you don't have an LOS to 110/119, but don't need 110/119, does it effectively behave like a 3-LNB dish thereafter?
NO because a 5lnb dish gets it's guide data while tuned to a 103 channel from 119. A SL3 puts 101 in the place of 110/119 so while tuned to a 103 channel you can still get guide data from 101. A 5lnb with out line of sight of 119 can experience guide data problems. They aren't always obvious and can be minimized by regularly tuning to a channel on 99 or 101 to get guide data.
raoul5788
09-29-08, 07:49 PM
NO because a 5lnb dish gets it's guide data while tuned to a 103 channel from 119. A SL3 puts 101 in the place of 110/119 so while tuned to a 103 channel you can still get guide data from 101. A 5lnb with out line of sight of 119 can experience guide data problems. They aren't always obvious and can be minimized by regularly tuning to a channel on 99 or 101 to get guide data.
Can't you get around that by setting up the system for a sl3 dish, even if it is a 5 lnb?
BattleZone
09-29-08, 08:06 PM
Can't you get around that by setting up the system for a sl3 dish, even if it is a 5 lnb?
No, because the stack plan (i.e., which sat the guide is pulled from) is dictated by the multiswitch built inside the LNB, not by the receiver.
The SL3 LNB's switch has been specially modified to pull the guide from 101 always. The same is true of SWM modules. The others pull from 119 anytime you are tuned to a channel on 110/119/103.
Can't you get around that by setting up the system for a sl3 dish, even if it is a 5 lnb?
There is some question about this, but it is my understanding that if you do in fact set your receiver/dvr for an SL3, you can use an SL5 but will properly get the guide data from 101. I have seen that said by a reliable source within DirecTV, but I have not seen any reports by anyone who has actually accomplished that.
Carl
I in fact did forget to mention that I have no LOS of 119, so this is the second time that the installer is coming out. D* has requested that I receive a slimline 3LNB but cannot confirm or deny that I will get one....I bought the 3lnb of ebay to be on the safe side.
So any chance anyone can give me a clue as what to do to swap the lnb's out ?
I think this is the money thread describing the 3-lnb vs. the 5-lnb:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=133958
Ok, one more clarifying question: I don't have an LOS for 119. If I have a 5-LNB horn, will complete guide data for 99/101/103 come in if I have an LOS for 110? (I understand from the quoted thread that 103 gets it's GD from either 110 and/or 119; it was ambiguous to me).
raoul5788
09-29-08, 09:44 PM
No, because the stack plan (i.e., which sat the guide is pulled from) is dictated by the multiswitch built inside the LNB, not by the receiver.
The SL3 LNB's switch has been specially modified to pull the guide from 101 always. The same is true of SWM modules. The others pull from 119 anytime you are tuned to a channel on 110/119/103.
Then what if you have an AT9 like I do. Can you just disconnect the lnb for 110 and 119 and set the system for an sl3? Isn't an sl3 really just an AT9 without the 110 and 119 lnb?
texasbrit
09-29-08, 09:46 PM
OK, here's the deal. I know I am repeating what has already been said by IIP but here goes. If you have a 5-lnb dish, when you are tuned to a 99/101 channel the guide comes from 101. When you are tuned to a 103/110/119 channel the guide comes from 119. Telling the receiver that you have a Slimline 3 will NOT, repeat NOT change that. It will remove the 110/119 channels from the guide but when you are tuned to a channel on 103 the receiver will still expect the guide to come from 119. So unless you use an SWM, or use the workaround described below, you will lose guide data if you spend most of your time watching a channel off 103 (like most HD).
The slimline 3 gets over this problem as IIP says by having a different stack plan so the 101 guide data comes down to the receiver even if you are tuned to a 103 channel. You can't make a Slimline 5 behave like a Slimline 3.
If you have an SWM8 or an SWM LNB then the SWM automatically delivers the guide from 101 whichever satellite you are tuned to, so the lack of 119 is not a problem with SWM.
The workaround has been posted many times but I will post it again. You have to get the receiver, or tuner 1 of the DVR, onto a 101 channel regularly to avoid the guide data problem. Fo the receiver it's easy. Set a daily autotune for a 101 channel (like BBCA) for early in the morning (maybe 3am). When you wake up in the morning the receiver will still be tuned to BBCA and the guide will have been refreshed.
For the DVR it's more complex. The guide is only processed by tuner 1 so you have to make sure that tuner is on a 101 channel. To do that you have to set up two simultaneous short manual recordings on 101 channels for the same time each early morning, that is the only way to make sure that tuner 1 is set to a 101 channel.
And we should not call the Slimline 3 the 3-lnb dish, the 3-lnb dish is the old oval one! Slimline 3 or SL3 will avoid confusion.
raoul5788
09-29-08, 09:56 PM
OK, here's the deal. I know I am repeating what has already been said by IIP but here goes. If you have a 5-lnb dish, when you are tuned to a 99/101 channel the guide comes from 101. When you are tuned to a 103/110/119 channel the guide comes from 119. Telling the receiver that you have a Slimline 3 will NOT, repeat NOT change that. It will remove the 110/119 channels from the guide but when you are tuned to a channel on 103 the receiver will still expect the guide to come from 119. So unless you use an SWM, or use the workaround described below, you will lose guide data if you spend most of your time watching a channel off 103 (like most HD).
The slimline 3 gets over this problem as IIP says by having a different stack plan so the 101 guide data comes down to the receiver even if you are tuned to a 103 channel. You can't make a Slimline 5 behave like a Slimline 3.
If you have an SWM8 or an SWM LNB then the SWM automatically delivers the guide from 101 whichever satellite you are tuned to, so the lack of 119 is not a problem with SWM.
The workaround has been posted many times but I will post it again. You have to get the receiver, or tuner 1 of the DVR, onto a 101 channel regularly to avoid the guide data problem. Fo the receiver it's easy. Set a daily autotune for a 101 channel (like BBCA) for early in the morning (maybe 3am). When you wake up in the morning the receiver will still be tuned to BBCA and the guide will have been refreshed.
For the DVR it's more complex. The guide is only processed by tuner 1 so you have to make sure that tuner is on a 101 channel. To do that you have to set up two simultaneous short manual recordings on 101 channels for the same time each early morning, that is the only way to make sure that tuner 1 is set to a 101 channel.
And we should not call the Slimline 3 the 3-lnb dish, the 3-lnb dish is the old oval one! Slimline 3 or SL3 will avoid confusion.
Got it! Thanks.
BattleZone
09-29-08, 10:08 PM
Then what if you have an AT9 like I do. Can you just disconnect the lnb for 110 and 119 and set the system for an sl3? Isn't an sl3 really just an AT9 without the 110 and 119 lnb?
If you have an AT9, you must either get a SWM-8 module or change your dish out for a Slimline (IMO, you should do that anyway) and either get a SWM LNB or a SL3 LNB. Just unplugging the sidecar LNB will not help you.
Thanks for re-summarizing txbrit...
bobnielsen
09-29-08, 11:51 PM
I in fact did forget to mention that I have no LOS of 119, so this is the second time that the installer is coming out. D* has requested that I receive a slimline 3LNB but cannot confirm or deny that I will get one....I bought the 3lnb of ebay to be on the safe side.
So any chance anyone can give me a clue as what to do to swap the lnb's out ?
The dishes come unassembled, so all the installer needs to do is install the SL3 LNB instead of the SL5 one.
David MacLeod
09-30-08, 07:55 AM
And we should not call the Slimline 3 the 3-lnb dish, the 3-lnb dish is the old oval one! Slimline 3 or SL3 will avoid confusion.
thanks for clarifying that, I was wondering about that since my 3lnb (oval dish) has a different mast size than my au9s. I was wondering why Carl6 said they mount the same, did not know about the SL3.
I think i must have the worst luck.....installer just left my house....I had the SL3 part at my house, he looked at it, called his supervisor in front of me and his sup said that since he has had no training that he needs to reschedule again.....this will now be the third time that the installer comes to "install" I guess as some form of luck I have another installer who according to the install co, only 2 people are trained for this, but they will be here Friday.....in 3 days.....one day I will be a D* customer
Thanks texasbrit for providing the very clear explanation. I did misunderstand the other information I saw.
Carl
Ok, one more clarifying question: I don't have an LOS for 119. If I have a 5-LNB horn, will complete guide data for 99/101/103 come in if I have an LOS for 110? (I understand from the quoted thread that 103 gets it's GD from either 110 and/or 119; it was ambiguous to me).
My homemade clinometer was incorrect. I get 119 over a mature poplar tree by about 3 or 4 degrees. I wonder if and how much the tree will grow? Hopefully not faster than I can source a new 99/101/103 SL3 horn. :)
tkrandall
10-01-08, 01:17 PM
I think i must have the worst luck.....installer just left my house....I had the SL3 part at my house, he looked at it, called his supervisor in front of me and his sup said that since he has had no training that he needs to reschedule again.....this will now be the third time that the installer comes to "install" I guess as some form of luck I have another installer who according to the install co, only 2 people are trained for this, but they will be here Friday.....in 3 days.....one day I will be a D* customer
That is ridiculous.
1) The on-line training has been out for over two months I believe.
2) How difficult could it be to figure it out on the fly anyway? Can they not think on the fly? It's like these install companies know less about the product than do some of the customers.
Seriously,
I am a total newbie and I feel like I must explain myself as I have known this stuff for years......My wife actually got really upset so she called the install company and almost had the tech at the house that night.....the only problem was that he was 3 hours away, and it being already 5pm I didnt want a tech at my house at 9 or 10pm barely being able to see what he is doing and possibly screwing something up.....that would be my luck
miketorse
10-01-08, 01:59 PM
That is ridiculous.
1) The on-line training has been out for over two months I believe.
2) How difficult could it be to figure it out on the fly anyway? Can they not think on the fly? It's like these install companies know less about the product than do some of the customers.
What is the training for the SL3? Are installers required to buy/use a Ka Band meter now?
I have no clue what the training is about, but the tech said it uses a SWM and there is a different setup to it than the 5LNB
What is the training for the SL3? Are installers required to buy/use a Ka Band meter now?
after installing the SL-3 LNB on the dish, set the tilt/skew according to the
setting obtained from the receiver by inserting your zip code. Then all that is
necessary is to complete the dithering/fine tuning of the slimline dish. do not
get the SL-3 confused with the SL-3S (SWM )
joe diamond
10-01-08, 07:18 PM
What is the training for the SL3? Are installers required to buy/use a Ka Band meter now?
Uh,
I was asked to show new installers what was "out there". I brought a collection
of dishes and demonstrated how to tune the 18" to hit the 101. This is not tough but you have to begin somewhere.
In the beginning of my demonstration the owner threw down a box with a slimline in it and said to move on......this is what we will be installing.
We skipped tuning and they went out with tools missing and no experience.
It did not end well.
There is a difference between education and training.
Joe
tkrandall
10-02-08, 09:51 AM
here is an example of material being available. Requires an account which I do not have, but the point is information is available for professionals.
look for SL3 LNB Training
http://www.satinstalltraining.com/materials.html
Does anybody have access to these files? If so, would anyone like to share?
BattleZone
10-02-08, 12:21 PM
What is the training for the SL3? Are installers required to buy/use a Ka Band meter now?
You assume that techs get "real" training. You'd be mistaken in many cases.
And there is no meter requirement; a tech has to be able to get the install in. If he can do that with a $30 analog meter, no one cares. Most techs have trouble affording $200 for a meter, much less $600+.
miketorse
10-02-08, 01:19 PM
You assume that techs get "real" training. You'd be mistaken in many cases.
And there is no meter requirement; a tech has to be able to get the install in. If he can do that with a $30 analog meter, no one cares. Most techs have trouble affording $200 for a meter, much less $600+.
That's what I thought, but wouldn't the installer then need to use the receiver to peak 99 and 103, just like a lot of us DYI'ers do?
The process of dithering is designed to peak 99 and 103 with out requiring a meter that can actually read them. You basically find 2 points on the opposite sides of the reception curve for 101 where it is weaker and more sensitive to changes and find the exact middle point. Should result in a well aimed dish.
RobertE
10-02-08, 06:46 PM
here is an example of material being available. Requires an account which I do not have, but the point is information is available for professionals.
look for SL3 LNB Training
http://www.satinstalltraining.com/materials.html
Does anybody have access to these files? If so, would anyone like to share?
Access yes. Share, sorry, no can do. Legality and all that junk.
joe diamond
10-02-08, 06:54 PM
My homemade clinometer was incorrect. I get 119 over a mature poplar tree by about 3 or 4 degrees. I wonder if and how much the tree will grow? Hopefully not faster than I can source a new 99/101/103 SL3 horn. :)
Sperho,
RURAL TREE CONTROL = 12 ga BB or #2 or Buck Shot.
Watch the top of the trees you are now clearing and wait. When the signal drops...load up.
Use the time now at hand to walk out on the other side of the trees to see where the shot will hit. Trees = ok...houses & cars = not good
Joe
texasbrit
10-02-08, 09:00 PM
The process of dithering is designed to peak 99 and 103 with out requiring a meter that can actually read them. You basically find 2 points on the opposite sides of the reception curve for 101 where it is weaker and more sensitive to changes and find the exact middle point. Should result in a well aimed dish.
If you do it properly it works pretty well. The problem is most techs do not do it properly. You need to be very precise about finding the center of the beam. And with DirecTV10 and 11 up and running they should check the 99c/103c signals on the receiver before they leave, but most don't seem to bother, or no-one has told them to do that because it isn't in the DirecTV training material (and it should be). The last tech who came to my house with a new HR21 didn't know anything about DirecTV10 (DirecTV11 wasn't launched then) and was very surprised when I showed him the 103c signals. Even more surprised when I installed the HR21 using a splitter on a feed from my SWM8!!
tkrandall
02-10-09, 08:50 AM
FWIW - Last weekend I finally got around to replacing my 5 LNB unit on my Slimeline dish with a SL-3 LNB unit I had purchased back in December. It was as an easy 5 minute swap out, and then I went to the DVRs and chose the SL-3 setup. No issues at all.
I installed the SL-3 as I am losing line of site to 110w when the leaves are out due to tree growth, and I think losing 119w may be only a year or two away.
vBulletin® v3.7.6, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.