New Dish customer, questions about locals

[sdcrym]

Just the other day I got my DishPVR 508 system installed.  I love everything about it, except I have no local channels.  I've got a few questions about what I should do.

I live in Starkville, MS, so I can't get any "local" local channels via the dish.

I applied through Dish Network's site for a waiver to get distant networks, but two stations(Fox and NBC) have denied it so far.  I live in a townhouse/apartment, so a rooftop antenna isn't really an option.  Is there any legal way for me to get any type of locals via satellite?  I guess I could harass the networks by requesting a waiver every day, but I was wondering what other people in my situation have done.

If I do have to get locals through something like rabbit ears, how would I access those channels from my receiver.  I know my receiver has an input for an antenna/cable tv, but I haven't found anything in the manual about how to get the signal to the tv.  I figured that there must be some way, or else why have the input on the back of the receiver?  I don't have an antenna of any type, but until I cancel my cable tv tomorrow, I've got that plugged in.

If I do buy an antenna, what's a good thing to get and from where?  It'll have to be either indoors or something I can mount on the dish.

Sorry about the length, but any help and/or suggestions about the local channel stuff above or anything else a newbie should know would be greatly appreciated.

[Jacob S]

DirecTv is adding more locals by the end of the year to have a total of around 100 locals. Maybe your city will be able to get them after the addition of all those channels. If not then you could try to force them to take the test for the signal.

RadioShack has a sale on an outdoor antenna right now where you can get the $100 antenna for $50 and I would buy an amplifier for it as well to help boost the signal. Before I would buy that I would see what type of reception you can get on rabbit ears or someone that lives real close to you on an outdoor antenna. Make sure it is digital compatible as all terrestrial broadcasts will be required to be switched from analog to digital by 2007.

[Mike123abc]

Go to http://antennaweb.org and put in your information and it will tell you what type of antenna you need. It will also draw you a map with arrows to each TV station so you can decide how to solve your particular reception problem.

[FTA Michael]

My two cents, based on my own experience:
Originally posted by sdcrym
If I do have to get locals through something like rabbit ears, how would I access those channels from my receiver.  I know my receiver has an input for an antenna/cable tvBingo! Just screw in an antenna there, and the receiver automatically switches to it for locals, right?
If I do buy an antenna, what's a good thing to get and from whereMy suggestion is to start with a $10 pair of rabbit ears from WalMart or Target or somesuch. My experience has been that it will (a) show what channels you can and can't get, and (b) provide 90% of the performance of a whiz-bang indoor or dish-mounted antenna. Higher-priced indoor antennae can improve your picture a bit, but they probably can't receive channels that $10 can't find.

[scooper]

A - you can put ANY antenna up to receive "Local TV Stations" so long as you're not infringing on space that is not "YOUR EXCLUSIVE CONTROL" - ERGO - while you may not be able to put an antenna ON the roof, there is nothing preventing you from putting it on a pole BESIDE the townhouse. If this is not acceptable to you, most cable companies have an unadvertised tier that is just the local broadcast stations.

B - the only channels the Dish PVR 508 can record are those channels that are received FROM DISH - you can't record OTA channels with the 508 AT ALL. So, to tune your local OTA channels, you will have to use your TV's tuner.

With all due respect, Jacob - that crap about an antenna being "Digital compatable" is pure BS - ALL antennas are "Digital Compatable" (as well as analog) - what counts is the frequency response and how well the antenna pulls in your desired signals (and rejects the ones you don't).

And for the ANT input to your Receiver / TV - think of that as working EXACTLY like a VCR does - when your satellite receiver is off OR if you toggle the TV/Video button on your remote, the ANT input will be passed through to the TV.

And if your TV has RCA composite or an S-video connection, that is much better than using the RF connection. Using the RCA audio connectors gets you stereo audio, and the other connections will get you better video.

[Jacob S]

To pick up the digital channels is there a special antenna that one can get to help pick them up better since it does come in a different frequency?

Also, I was wondering myself if you had to have a special digital ready antenna because it looked the same as any other antenna when I seen someone buy one. It must be a bunch of hype just to get you to buy one. The thing is if the analog signal is shut off by 2007 then what would we do then to bring in the locals with the analog tv? Perhaps by then most if not all the locals will be available by satellite then. This could actually help Dish and Direct out in that people would rather pay extra for the locals than pay all that money for new digital tv sets if they are still going to be expensive and not catch on by then.

[JohnH]

"Digital" antennas are in most cases analog antennas repackaged and in some cases probably not as good as an analog antenna.

BTW: It is getting a bit tiresome to see a sales pitch for the other provider when someone just bought "X" provider's system. DISH Network and DirecTV are both adding locals quite frequently. When your locals show up or are announced as being available is the only way to tell they have been added. It is not sufficient to say they "are coming".

[sdcrym]

I'm still not understanding how I'd be able access the signal from an antenna that's plugged into the receiver. Someone mentioned that I would just use my TV's tuner, but I'm connecting my satellite receiver to my AV receiver with S-video and optical. From there, I've got my AV receiver connected to my TV via S-video, so the TV is set on the auxillary input all the time. There's no coaxial cable connected to my TV at all, so its tuner is useless now.

[JohnH]

You can connect the antenna to your TV receiver then. That would probably provide the best reception. Only other option would be if your AV receiver has a tuner for TV.

[sdcrym]

Originally posted by JohnH
You can connect the antenna to your TV receiver then. That would probably provide the best reception. Only other option would be if your AV receiver has a tuner for TV. So then what's the point of the antenna jack on the back of the satellite receiver?

[sdcrym]

Originally posted by scooper
A - you can put ANY antenna up to receive "Local TV Stations" so long as you're not infringing on space that is not "YOUR EXCLUSIVE CONTROL" - ERGO - while you may not be able to put an antenna ON the roof, there is nothing preventing you from putting it on a pole BESIDE the townhouse. If this is not acceptable to you, most cable companies have an unadvertised tier that is just the local broadcast stations. 

Yeah, I read all the FCC otard stuff when I was getting permission to put the dish up.  The thing is, beside the townhouse isn't really an exclusive area for me.  I went through a week of making phone calls to get them to give me permission to put the dish on a pole in the flowerbed out front, so I don't think calling again to ask for an antenna would go over really well.

[JohnH]

To pass an antenna or cable signal through to your TV if you are using the RF connections instead of the AV connections.

[sdcrym]

Originally posted by JohnH
To pass an antenna or cable signal through to your TV if you are using the RF connections insted of the AV connections. I guess that makes sense.  You'd think they could at least mention that in the manual somewhere...

[scooper]

"Digital TV" 101 - ATSC (the "proper" acronym for the digital OTA) is using the exact same frequencies as the older NTSC (Analog) - existing TV stations were given an additional 6MHz channel to broadcast their ATSC service on during the transition. ATSC is nothing more than a different modulation scheme. At the end of the transition period (more on this later), the station gets to choose which channel to keep. There are some additional considerations here as well.

End of the transition period - while the FCC has expressed their desire for this to be in 2007, the actual law from Congress stated 2007 OR whenever 85% of a market can receive the ATSC signals SOMEHOW. This could be by using DBS (the DBS provider could recive the programming and convert like they do now) or via cable (doing much the same thing). In order to receive ATSC OTA with your current NTSC set, you will need to buy a separate ATSC tuner that could also downconvert to NTSC.

THere is MUCH, MUCH more - start with www.atsc.org .

[Jacob S]

I figure they would offer a special type of dish or antenna to pick up these digital signals such as they do with satellites like a beam that reminds me of NorthPoint tried to do. I dont see why this would not be implemented more because more people would be able to pick up the signals with a better quality I would think. If not that then at least have something that could pick up a digital signal or amplify it at the customer's house or from the tv station so that more people can pick up the channels.

Having the channels available through satellite would solve a lot of these problems.

[grassvalley]

Has anyone tried the antenna that snaps onto the dish? Is it any better than a rooftop antenna?

[angiodan]

Those clip on antennas are hit or miss. I had used one for a while and it did quite well for me, but others will tell you it was complete garbage. I guess you could always try one, just be sure to buy it at Best Buy or someplace where its easy to take it back if it doesn't work out for you.

[scooper]

The "clip on the dish" OTA antennas are highly dependent on how far and in what direction the OTA transmitters are from your location. In the right circumstances, they can be quite acceptable - but most of us aren't in those circumstances !

[sdcrym]

How much does one of those on the dish antennas cost? Also, does it require a second cable to be run from the dish to inside?

[Jacob S]

I have tried using the clip on antenna just a few miles from the stations and had problems picking them up, yet when I tried one 40 miles from the stations they came in very well. Both places were on top of a hill. It just depends on where your at an how the signals are hitting you, so I figure you would have to be able to pick them up well on an outdoor antenna to pick them up on the terk, that it would be no better than the outdoor antenna, and your actually better off to have an outdoor antenna with an amplifier.

The Terk clip on antennas cost around $50 and they have diplexers that come with them where the wire from the satellite lnbf and the terk antenna goes into a splitter type of device called a diplexer and then another diplexer on the other end where the tv and satellite receiver is at splits the signal back out. It is powered by the satellite receiver.

[TerryC]

Originally posted by sdcrym
I guess that makes sense.  You'd think they could at least mention that in the manual somewhere...
The manual is already too large from giving us other useful information such as "How To Change the Channel".

I still get a chuckle out of that one. :)

[FTA Michael]

My two cents: My Terk clip-on gives me a little better picture than my $10 rabbit ears did, but at 5x the cost and 10x the installation hassle. I'm not going to throw it in the trash, but if I'd known what PQ I'd get from it, I'd have never bought it.

[HTguy]

Originally posted by sdcrym
I'm still not understanding how I'd be able access the signal from an antenna that's plugged into the receiver. Someone mentioned that I would just use my TV's tuner, but I'm connecting my satellite receiver to my AV receiver with S-video and optical. From there, I've got my AV receiver connected to my TV via S-video, so the TV is set on the auxillary input all the time. There's no coaxial cable connected to my TV at all, so its tuner is useless now.

Since you're connecting the sat rcvr to your AV rcvr there's no major reason to connect the OTA antenna to it. You would just connect the antenna to the TV's antenna jack & watch your locals on your TV the "old fashioned" way. But you would also want to run a stereo patchcord from the TV's Tuner Out jacks to your AV receiver to here the locals in stereo & SS.

Alternatively, you could connect the antenna to the Antenna/Cable In jack on the sat rcvr and connect the To TV jack on it to the TV's ant jack. Then you would see the sat on Ch 3/4 (mono) and by hitting the TV/Video button or powering off the sat rcvr you would tune in the locals on their regular channels.

A minor advantage to the latter is that you could turn up the sound on the TV speakers and see & hear both sat & local channels that way without using the AV receiver SS system.