RG6 Coax Wiring Issues

[igleaner]

Several questions regarding RG6 Coax wiring:

1.  Must the cable be sweep tested for DirectTV use?  Or this this only necessary for Dish systems?  Not all cables are specifically marked, such as the ones carried by Home Depot. 

2.  Is it necessary to rout cables coming from the dish LNB through a surge suppressor?  As these lines do not originate from an outside system, such as in cable TV, where could a spike ever originate from?  Of course, the cables will pass through a ground block.

3.  Has anyone ever used Belden 7915A Durobond tri-shield cable?  This is supposedly their best product.  I just purchased a 500 foot roll through BroadBandUtopia.  I find it impossible to install the RG6 "F" connectors.  It seems that the outer jacket is so tight that the inner sleeve of the fitting cannot be pushed between the shielding and jacket.  My local satellite installer was shown a sample of this cable and he said he ran into this type of wire before and for this reason, refused to ever use it again.  He not only tried to install my fittings, but also tried to install every type he had in stock and nothing worked.  He even tried to heat the jacket to soften it, hoping the fitting would push onto the cable end, but that didn't work either.  I called Belden directly and they thought this cable should easily accept standard RG6 "F" connectors and suggested the wire might be defective in that the jacket could be too tight. They were sent a sample for evaluation and I'm still waiting for their answer.  BroadBandUtopia said that this wire requires a special "F" fitting specifically for tri sheld cable construction, there is nothing wrong with this wire, and will not accept return of this product.  But Belden says there is no such thing as a tri-shild fitting and standard quad shield fitings will work just fine.  Who should I believe?  Is it possible this cable is just defective as it can't accept connector fittings.  Has anyone ever seen a cable where the connectors just couldn't be installed?  I'm stumped!

 

 

[Mike500]

Most high quality cable like Belden will be fine for any satellite application, even if there is no claim that it has been swept to 2.2GHz.



Are you still using "standard" hex crimp connectors? These vary in quality from very poor to very good. The standard of the industry is the Snap-N-Seal connector made by Thomas and Betts.

The two part system for RG-6 is basically the same for dual, tri and quad shielded cable, except for the compression sleeve, which varies due to the outer diameter of the cable's outer jacket. I would not use a quad shielded sleeve for tri-shielded. I have not used this connector on Belden tri-shielded, but I have used many on Times Fiber Lifetime tri-shielded with consistantly good results. Using too large a sleeve will defeat the weather sealing ability of Snap-N-Seal connectors.

Here are some kits that I've found on Ebay, that may be all that you need.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3019850388&category=15067

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3020442166

Also, you might consider high quality barrel connectors, like these;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3021223735

Hope this helps!

[ClearCom]

Tri sheild cable is overkill. For any standard install that is within length requirements (100') a 60% braided cable will be good.
I personally like Sterling connectors and the new SPL-6 connectors fit standard RG-6 and quad sheild using the same connector. They are also certified by DTV.
The cable you find at Home Depot is most likely only swept to 1g allowing for its use with cable systems, but only marginal for satellite.

[Mike500]

Preparing both tri-shield and quad shielded cable is different than regular dual shielded cable. In the case of tri-shielded cable, you must remove the foil to outer jacket and central insulator with a 1/4-1/4" strip. You cannot insert the connector until you remove the outer foil shield to expose the inner shield wires. The foil shield has a fold over seam. Nick the edge of the foil next to the unstripped outer jacket and peal off the outer foil to expose the shield wires. Bend the shield wires back folding them over the outer jacket. No insert the "f" connector. For quad shielded cable, you must fold back the outer shielded wires before removing the outer shield. Otherwise, they are prepared the same way.

If you do not remove the outer shield, you will no be able to insert the connector.

The Stirling SPL "push lock" connectors are good, but the two piece Snap-N-Seals are easier to use on cables with more than 60% shield, tri-shield or quad shield. I find that all the one piece connectors, except the PPC EX6's are tough to insert especially in quad shielded cables.

[igleaner]

Mike, I appreciate your answer but maybe I didn't make the problem very clear. I understand the connector cannot be installed over the dielectric unless all but the innermost shielding is removed. My problem is that once the connector slips over the dielectric, I can't force it any further onto the cable because the outer jacket seems too tight to permit the connector to slip between it and the shielding. And you must force the connector under the jacket for approximately 3/8 inch to permit the dielectric to be flush with the bottom inside of the screw portion of the connector. Some manufacturers have acknowledged that overly tight jackets are a known manufacturing defect.

[Mike500]

igleaner,

Years ago, I had this problem before with high quality RG6 quad shielded cables, with both hex and one piece compression connectors. The material bulk of the thick shielded wires folded over the outer jacket prevents the outer sheaf from expanding due to the small size of the barrel of the "F" connector. The outer jacket of the cable is made of flexible and expandible material. The jacket must flex just to allow the cable to be bent.

Notice the patent drawing of the Snap-N-Seal connector:

http://members.aol.com/mhz500/snspat.jpg

The outer barrel is large and will accomodate this expansion. Being separate, the compression sleve is inserted over the cable jacket before the "F" connector is placed on the end of the cable. Like I said before, I have had problems with the one piece assembled connectors, but no problems with the original two piece Snap-N-Seal connectors.

Consequently, I have been able to use an RG50 Snap-N-Seal compression sleeve with an RG6 barrel for some very small diameter outer jacket Commscope coax with good success. Also, in a pinch, I've forced a standard RG6 sleeve and barrel on quad shielded cable and set it with no problem. This make a really tight weather proof seal. A standard one piece compression connector would never be able to be forced on quad shielded cable.

Thomas and Betts Snap-N-Seal continues to be the industry standard and the preferred connector of professionals.

[igleaner]

Belden has received my cable sample and connectors and has confirmed that the jacket is so tight that even they cannot install the connectors. They will put this in writing so that I can get a refund from the wire distributor.

Incidentally, the tight jacket prevents the wire from freely flexing. That is, you can bend into into the shape of an "S" and it will tend to stay that way. This is a sure sign of a manufacturing defect.

Now the question is, what wire do you recommend and where can I buy this cable? I actually need 300 feet, but am willing to buy the 500 foot standard roll.

[Mike500]

E-mail me, I can send you 300 ft of Times Fiber Lifetime 90% shielded or Commscope Tri-shield cable at a good price. I also have some of the best Commscope white quad shielded cable. The Times Fiber is lightly filled with a anti-corrosive floodant. Its delivered price will be a lot less than you paid for the Belden Tri-shielded. The spool from which each type of cable will have been tested and found to work well with many brands of connectors. I also have Commscope dual cable and dual direct burial cable with messenger, as well as black Commscope single RG6 cable with messenger. All of these cables have been used successfully with DishPro systems.

My e-mail is mhz500@aol.com

[igleaner]

Mike - Before I buy anything, I'm waiting to hear what my original vendor will do for me. It still might take several more weeks to get this resolved. If he only offers me a credit, then he has other cables he can sell me.

[waydwolf]

Originally posted by ClearCom
Tri sheild cable is overkill. For any standard install that is within length requirements (100') a 60% braided cable will be good. 


    In no way, shape, or form will such simple braided cable be sufficient if you keep track of the FCC.

    First, they have been on a spectrum sharing jag forever and satellite IF is designated to be on a closed circuit and stay there while frequency assignments between 950Mhz and 1450Mhz for open broadcast have been made. Insufficiently shielded cable increases chances for ingress of background noise which includes lawful broadcasts.

    Second, cable companies are b*ttkicked regularly and routinely for leakage because their frequency assignments are also shared and their usage is supposed to be closed circuit. Any leakage into the air beyond a small amount is a violation of the FCC rules and may be fined.

    How long do you think it will be before the broadcast users in the 950Mhz-1450Mhz space protest that DBS interference is increasing beyond reasonable levels and the FCC orders a crackdown?

    The wheels of government grind slow, but they grind fine, and being forward looking is the best way. Quad shield and all metal compression fittings ala Holland SuperLok or Gilbert UltraSeal should be used every time.

 

 

[waydwolf]

Originally posted by igleaner
Several questions regarding RG6 Coax wiring:

1.  Must the cable be sweep tested for DirectTV use?  Or this this only necessary for Dish systems?  Not all cables are specifically marked, such as the ones carried by Home Depot. 

    "Sweep testing", prior to DBS marketing, was something only college-educated engineers or trained RF field technicians ever heard of.

    If you take the average roll of Belden, Times Fiber, etc. cable from the cable company and a roll of Perfect 10 cable, sweep tests will be nearly identical insofar as any installation is regarded short of that in an RF lab chasing down three to five decimal place differences.

    The one cable that you will find a marked difference in would be Radio Shack's copper braid RG-6 and RG-59. AVOID RADIO SHACK BY INSTINCT ALWAYS. There are some decent minor supplies, but hunting and telling the difference is more hassle than you need.

    Remember, the so-called "3Ghz" sweep tested ground blocks and such are horsehockey. I could sweep test any of the fittings, ground blocks, barrels, etc. I use in both cable and satellite and show almost no difference. You're concerned with future reliability and getting sufficient signal with low enough noise and errors to the receivers such that they are unnoticable to you. If you need an oscilloscope to find the problems and otherwise cannot perceive them, then you're chasing too far.

    Keep in mind that corrosion will always be your biggest enemy. Wherever dissimilar metals meet you will get it and charging them with any electrical signal makes it worse. Inevitably you will have brass, bronze, aluminum, and steel making contact someplace so you will sooner or later have electrolytic corrosion and require replacement of metal fittings.

    Ironic that the best property of gold coated parts is actually to resist such tarnishing and corrosion yet gold coated parts are used INDOORS almost exclusively while outdoors, we set ourselves up for corrosion and eventual failure.

    BTW, aluminum fittings can most definitely oxidize to the point they literally crumble off the cabling. The thinner the walls, the faster they go. F-Conn swag fittings are thin to make crimping them easier and go quickly. Avoid them like the plague. 


2.  Is it necessary to rout cables coming from the dish LNB through a surge suppressor?  As these lines do not originate from an outside system, such as in cable TV, where could a spike ever originate from?  Of course, the cables will pass through a ground block.

    The NEC and local electrical codes always require that all external antennas be grounded and that includes satellite dishes. As such, any grounded dish now constitutes an antenna through which electromagnetic pulse generated by lightning strikes can cause a surge and it takes almost no time for that surge to effect electronics before it can be conducted away to ground.

    Also, surges elsewhere in the electrical system are conducted through the same ground and during the time on the line CAN short from the shield layer of the coax through a receiver's electronics.



3.  Has anyone ever used Belden 7915A Durobond tri-shield cable?  This is supposedly their best product.  I just purchased a 500 foot roll through BroadBandUtopia.  I find it impossible to install the RG6 "F" connectors.  It seems that the outer jacket is so tight that the inner sleeve of the fitting cannot be pushed between the shielding and jacket.  My local satellite installer was shown a sample of this cable and he said he ran into this type of wire before and for this reason, refused to ever use it again.  He not only tried to install my fittings, but also tried to install every type he had in stock and nothing worked.  He even tried to heat the jacket to soften it, hoping the fitting would push onto the cable end, but that didn't work either.  I called Belden directly and they thought this cable should easily accept standard RG6 "F" connectors and suggested the wire might be defective in that the jacket could be too tight. They were sent a sample for evaluation and I'm still waiting for their answer.  BroadBandUtopia said that this wire requires a special "F" fitting specifically for tri sheld cable construction, there is nothing wrong with this wire, and will not accept return of this product.  But Belden says there is no such thing as a tri-shild fitting and standard quad shield fitings will work just fine.  Who should I believe?  Is it possible this cable is just defective as it can't accept connector fittings.  Has anyone ever seen a cable where the connectors just couldn't be installed?  I'm stumped!

 

 

    This cabling sounds suspiciously like the sort of plastic-jacket RG-6 often used for rooftop aerial UHF/VHF antennas and by SOME cable companies in a few select cases.

    I've dealt with this cable and the only way to get it on there is to use two pliers. One with rubber jaws to grip the coax and the other to grip a sacrificial barrel screwed tightly into the fitting. By pressing HARD and rotating back and forth until it is seated, it can be done. I've nearly broken my fingers and spent forty minutes doing the connectors, but I managed.

 

[igleaner]

Regarding my inability to force "F" connectors onto the cable ends prior to crimping, Belden has called me back with further information. They stated that their 7915A cable is not defective, but that this tri-shield requires special installation tools, such as the Thomas & Betts to install high quality connectors.

Realizing that I fell into the trap of ordering a spool of cable which requires a connector installation tool more expensive than the cost of the wire itself, they are sending me gratis a 500 foot roll of their standard quad shield 7916A. However, they couldn't tell me whether this cable will also require a tool for inserting the connectors.

Does anyone know of a high quality "F" connector which can readily be installed on either tri or quad shied by hand prior to the final crimping operation, or must I buy an insertion tool for around $50?

[Mike500]

It is even harder to insert quad shielded cable in a standard hex crimp connector. PPC (Production Products Corporation) makes the only easy to insert hex crimp connector, since it is good for 60% shield to quad. You must be sure, however, that you use the .360" hex cavity. This is the larger cavity on the $16 Radio Shack tool. These connectors are blue colored and have silicone filling and internal "o" rings. They will work good with either the tri-shielded or quad shielded cable. E-mail me, if you need some of these. Or, you can go to www.ppc-online.com.