View Full Version : pictures of my not so pretty install
I had a DirecTV install the weekend before last. I had U-Verse at the time, but my promo offer recently expired and I was dissatisfied by the HD quality as well as the quirkiness of the still immature service. I decided to take advantage of the NFL Sunday Ticket promo.
The install was scheduled for Saturday, between 12 and 4. The tech arrived around 1:30 and I walk him around the house and show him where the receivers need to go. I live in a two story condo and wanted an HD DVR downstairs, an HD receiver upstairs in the master bedroom and an SD receiver in the guest room, also upstairs. Another tech shows up shortly thereafter. The first tech explains to the second tech what he wants to do. One of the things he wanted to do was tap into my neighbor's SWM (remember, we're in a condo). The second tech shot down that idea and left shortly thereafter. He went out to his truck and looked around in his rather messy van (boxes were not stacked neatly and he wasn't even sure he had an SD receiver). He was working rather slowly and eventually came to the conclusion that he didn't have the correct mount for the dish he was going to install (a slimline). After sitting out in his truck for a while and, I'm assuming, calling to see if someone could deliver the new mount, he tells me he needs to go back to his shop to get the proper mount. I guess he had never worked with this dish before. I don't think that's a good sign.
He arrives back at my house around 4pm and tells me that he picked up the mount, but had to get someone to deliver him a metal drill bit. This sounds to me like he didn't get the correct mount, but I could be wrong. Maybe an hour later and another tech comes out and delivers the drill bit. They sit outside and chit chat for half an hour before I finally go out and ask him how things are going and he finally says goodbye to the other tech. Oh, I ended up lending him my hammer because he didn't have one on him. The end result was a messy install and a the TV the SD receiver was hooked up to displaying an unviewable image due to horizontal lines distorting the screen. The tech left around 8:30pm. I probably should've complained then, but I think I wanted him to leave about as much as he wanted to leave, himself. Attached are some pictures of the install.
I ended up calling DirecTV, explained the issues I had and thought that the install wasn't up to their standards. The local install company called and said they'd send out a supervisor. The supervisor came out this weekend and I walked him through what the installer did. He agreed with me that the install was sub-standard. After walking through the install and taking some pictures (I lent him my camera), he went through a checklist of items for the install. He said the majority of the items failed, including too many barrel connectors, not cleaning up after the install (there were several cable tacks lying around, debris from drilling into the walls, the mat that he should've placed under the mount for the dish was not used and left in my backyard, etc), not using monopoles with the mount (we're experiencing some hefty Santa Ana winds upwards up 60-70mph this week), improper ground and a few other things that I don't recall. He said he'd schedule someone to come out and fix the install, including re-running the cables to help conceal them a little better.
I called DirecTV yesterday and they didn't have any notes in their system about the supervisor visit and suggested I wait at least 48 hours after the visit. It's now Tuesday night and I haven't received a call yet, so I'll give them a call tomorrow or Thursday to make sure there's a followup. What do you guys think of the install pics? Am I nitpicking?
Won't you need more cinder blocks than that if you're experiencing 70 mph winds?
capegator
10-15-08, 02:33 AM
Cinder blocks! That's priceless.
David MacLeod
10-15-08, 03:49 AM
you know, it almost looks like ( img_4520a, 4522a and 4523a ) there is a piece of white coax being used as ground cable and tied to pained water pipe.
how much electrical tape is used there?
wonder how many of those installs are never reported and lead to signal issues later.
edit: ok, I see 4522 and 4523 are actually just coax sitting there not connected to anything.
paulman182
10-15-08, 04:21 AM
I have seen many dishes at radio stations and commercial establishments held in place by cinder blocks on rooftops, so I'm not sure that's bad, except that he does probably need a couple more.
Teronzhul
10-15-08, 04:55 AM
A non penetrating roof mount using concrete blocks as weight is perfectly acceptable. Using only 2 of them however, is not.
That is one rats nest of wires by the dish. Honestly, what are some installers thinking?
He was also too lazy to run the coax direct to the LNB and instead used barrel connectors...just adds another potential point of failure.
capegator
10-15-08, 07:12 AM
A non penetrating roof mount using concrete blocks as weight is perfectly acceptable. Using only 2 of them however, is not.
Besides the weight of the blocks, what is used to adhere the mount to the roof? I could see this setup as shown in the pics blown off the roof in the first S. Florida afternoon storm.
Besides the weight of the blocks, what is used to adhere the mount to the roof? I could see this setup as shown in the pics blown off the roof in the first S. Florida afternoon storm.
They are perfectly acceptable, as said it needs more weight though.
Look on your nearest gas station roof, almost all gas stations use VSAT terminals with non-penetrating mounts, even down in Florida. They are VERY sturdy when weighted down properly.
Its one of those cases of people underestimating the physics involved, sorta like with TV wall mounts. As a test we once mounted a 2 bolt style wall mount that did not even look that strong, then fully extended it and hung on it. Easily held a 180lb person hanging on it fully extended.
dave1234
10-15-08, 07:34 AM
All I want to know is: Where's the duct tape? :hurah:
Matt9876
10-15-08, 07:44 AM
You need at least two more blocks in that roof mount, with a slimline dish I would have used six.
I would connect all four white coax cables directly to the head on the dish,This would prevent rain water from messing with all those exposed connectors at the dish.
With a bit of work you could take some of the twist and turns out of that cabling.
:nono2:
BattleZone
10-15-08, 07:56 AM
He was also too lazy to run the coax direct to the LNB and instead used barrel connectors...just adds another potential point of failure.
That one isn't his fault; some of the LNBs come with permanently-attached cables like that. IMO it's colossally stupid, but I didn't design the thing.
Issues just off the top of my head:
- Not enough ballast.
- No support arms (the non-pen used was designed for basic dishes; there is a specific non-pen for Ka/Ku dishes that has proper support. It is also triple the price, and not a standard item (i.e., it's a custom part that's chargable to the customer).
- Not properly grounded. No ground block, and 17 ga "messenger" is only to spec from dish to the ground block, not to the ground source. And the ground source is questionable at best.
- Sloppy cabling; cables don't have enough cable clips to hold them properly.
I don't doubt there are more issues...
David MacLeod
10-15-08, 08:13 AM
on the plus side there is a spare unused piece of coax lying there :)
That one isn't his fault; some of the LNBs come with permanently-attached cables like that. IMO it's colossally stupid, but I didn't design the thing.
Interesting, I have not seen that type. Stupid indeed.
All I want to know is: Where's the duct tape? :hurah:
He could use duct tape to secure the roof mount then everyone will be happy :)
HDTVsportsfan
10-15-08, 09:28 AM
Is that grounded to a water line or the gas meter. I do see what looks like water valves/cut offs.
machavez00
10-15-08, 09:37 AM
You need to send those pics to DirecTV and the installer.
Is that grounded to a water line or the gas meter. I do see what looks like water valves/cut offs.
It's grounded to a water line, but he ran it all the way over to my neighbor's side of the building. As you can see, he didn't make any attempts to conceal the routing of the wires here, either.
west99999
10-15-08, 09:42 AM
That is one rats nest of wires by the dish. Honestly, what are some installers thinking?
He was also too lazy to run the coax direct to the LNB and instead used barrel connectors...just adds another potential point of failure.
actually those lnb come with preattached pigtails and barrels now that is standard issue.
Oh, the supervisor also failed the way he "sealed" the entry points of the coax into the building.
You need to send those pics to DirecTV and the installer.
What DirecTV e-mail address should I send them to? I tried to send the pics to the supervisor, but the e-mail address he gave me bounced back. I didn't check the error message, but it could've been because the attachment/message size was too big as I didn't resize them like I did for my post(s) here.
David MacLeod
10-15-08, 09:57 AM
actually those lnb come with preattached pigtails and barrels now that is standard issue.
wouldn't a preattached one have pigtails all the same length and color?
3 white, 1 black, different lengths if I looked at it right.
HDTVsportsfan
10-15-08, 10:22 AM
Swiping a port from your neighbors SWM is classic.
What a mess! There is a coax hooked to nothing 4 lines out of the lnb does this seem weird to anyone else. HDDVR down that is 2 tuners an HD and SD 2 more. I can't understand the install.
Wow. That's impressively inept. TWO cinderblocks? My 12 year old could knock that thing out of alignment. And the cabling? My wife could have wired that up better.
bwaldron
10-15-08, 11:02 AM
Besides the weight of the blocks, what is used to adhere the mount to the roof? I could see this setup as shown in the pics blown off the roof in the first S. Florida afternoon storm.
A properly weighted NPRM works fine in Florida.
hdtvfan0001
10-15-08, 02:16 PM
Is it just me...or does anyone else have an urgent need to send this fellow a roll of duct tape? :D
RobertE
10-15-08, 03:06 PM
To many posts to quote, so I'll just fire away. Some of this has been covered in other posts.
Wrong Non-Pen mount. What should have been used is the NPR6A. As previously stated, it's about triple the price of that basic non-pen. The NPR6A has a 2" mast and supports. It also has space for 8 block vs 6 on the basic non-pen.
For those that say but it's not attached to the roof. Well, thats the point. It's a NON-PEN as in Non-Penetrating, ie no holes. Given the proper ballast, the roof around it will be gone before it moves.
Barrels at the LNB. This is proper and correct per DirecTv. Here is the information from the Field Focus bulletin from Oct 2nd. This is available to all HSP management. Sorry for the long quote.
Pigtail Info
DIRECTV has recently redesigned the Ka/Ku SWM LNB to include pre-installed jumpers (a.k.a. pigtails) that are pre-assembled and attached to the LNB by the manufacturer. Please note warehouses may receive SL5 LNBs with attached pigtails or with the pigtails packaged separately. (All SL3 LNBs should include the attached pigtails.)
There are several factors that necessitated making this change, including the technician misconception that tuning the ODU with the old style Ka/Ku LNB and simply replacing it with the SWM LNB would not affect the tuning or cause customer impacting problems. (This is typical when the tech doesn’t have the necessary tools such as the proper meter or Alignment Signal Locator.) In addition to the tuning/swapping LNB issue, techs often left loose connectors and/or loose or missing LNB screws, all of which would impact the Customer with one or more of the following types of picture problems: minor/major pixelization, intermittent or complete loss of audio and in some cases Searching for Satellite Signal (SFSS). A major concern is that the simple mistake of not properly installing the connectors or screws or simply swapping an old LNB with the SWM LNB drives repeated service calls which can create a need for a Case Management escalation or even worse yet, a lost Customer.
One of the many benefits to the usage of pre-installed pigtails is that it allows the installer to completely assemble the ODU on the ground, avoiding the need to attach the LNB after the ODU is mounted, when installation of the LNB and LNB bolts may be difficult to reach. One key item for the technician to remember is to run the pre-installed jumpers down the arm of the ODU prior to installing the feed arm onto the back assembly. This will prevent the bolts from getting in the way and making it more difficult to feed the cables through the arm. It will also minimize the potential for damaging the pre-installed connector/barrel as well.
Techs should also visually inspect the pre-installed jumper and connectors/barrels to ensure there are no potential issues such as impedance mismatches due to pinched or kinked cabling, which may cause the tech to lose many critical minutes or hours of productivity. Techs should also validate that they have plenty of cable to properly install service loops at the back of the ODU and that the pre-installed
jumpers are tight as well. Another vital component to ensuring a successful installation and a satisfied Customer is to ensure the ODU is mounted properly and that all of the bolts on the ODU are properly tightened after the ODU has been properly tuned.
Please remember that if any of the bolts, connectors or LNB screws are loose or missing, a service call will be generated … it is only a matter of time.
Wanting to run off the neighbors SWM. Thats just lazy.
The routing/securing of the cable is rough. He can do better. His drip loops are poor as well.
Grounding leaves a lot to be desired, but at least he did something for a ground.
I'd give it a D and scheduled the guy for some uptraining.
Jimmy the Dish
10-15-08, 04:10 PM
First of all he used the wrong non pen mount. They make a larger one specifically for the slimline. I'd use a minimum of 6 36lb ballasts. A good wind and your screwed! Luckily your in Southern Cali, cause if you were up north, that mount would slide right across your roof in an ice storm. You should have called a LOCAL PROFESSIONAL!
I'm adding more details as they come to me, so pardon me for my small updates. One thing I also remembered is that his meter wasn't charged, so he had to plug it in and wait for it to have enough use to aim/calibrate the dish.
I'd like to add that I was as nice can be and offered him help on several occasions. I even offered him drinks and I think I ended up giving him 3 or 4 bottles of Propel fitness water. Sometimes it doesn't matter how nice or helpful you are to the techs, it would seem. In this case it was the luck (or misfortune) of the draw.
mjtville
10-16-08, 10:06 AM
I'm adding more details as they come to me, so pardon me for my small updates. One thing I also remembered is that his meter wasn't charged, so he had to plug it in and wait for it to have enough use to aim/calibrate the dish.
I'd like to add that I was as nice can be and offered him help on several occasions. I even offered him drinks and I think I ended up giving him 3 or 4 bottles of Propel fitness water. Sometimes it doesn't matter how nice or helpful you are to the techs, it would seem. In this case it was the luck (or misfortune) of the draw.
Let me start out by saying, when I arrive to an install, you are the type of customer I am hoping for:D ...........Also, great pics and description of your experience. You really need to keep this thread updated..... The other guys have pretty much summed up the install you received.
These are my observations. The installer tried his best, he did not have proper training or enough of it. He left to get the NPRM more than likely from a warehouse (AFS?) and the person that issued it to him knew that it was the wrong mount and told him to modify it. This same person gave him only 2 blocks also knowing that that was not enough ballast. No pad under the mount (EDIT: left it in the yard (which he probably thought was part of the packing material), another no no. He didn't have the correct drill bit (?) is another indicator of poor training and preparation. I think that the installer was overwhelmed by the size, the planning, and the difficulty of the installation but he still tackled it. From what I see from here, he is not totally to blame. (Un) luck of the draw, sorry to say that you are so right. Just my humble opinion.
David MacLeod
10-16-08, 10:10 AM
I'm still curious about those pigtails. are they all hand made? this one had different lengths and colors, is that normal?
Let me start out by saying, when I arrive to an install, you are the type of customer I am hoping for:D ...........Also, great pics and description of your experience. You really need to keep this thread updated..... The other guys have pretty much summed up the install you received.
These are my observations. The installer tried his best, he did not have proper training or enough of it. He left to get the NPRM more than likely from a warehouse (AFS?) and the person that issued it to him knew that it was the wrong mount and told him to modify it. This same person gave him only 2 blocks also knowing that that was not enough ballast. No pad to go under the mount, another no no. He didn't have the correct drill bit (?) is another indicator of poor training and preparation. I think that the installer was overwhelmed by the size, the planning, and the difficulty of the installation but he still tackled it. From what I see from here, he is not totally to blame. (Un) luck of the draw, sorry to say that you are so right. Just my humble opinion.
I want to add that I don't necessarily blame the tech for all the things that went wrong with the install. If there were proper checks and balances, things like this wouldn't happen, or, at least, they'd be few and far between. I can certainly see that improper training may have led to the poor execution of this install. If whoever supplied him with the mount knew he needed to modify it, he/she or the tech should have known that he needed a metal drill bit.
I don't know if he had additional cinder blocks and just didn't take the up to the roof or if he wasn't supplied with any additional ones. I had a few in my backyard, so I could've supplied them to him or he could've just told me he didn't have any. As it is, if he knew he needed more, he should have let me know and scheduled a follow up visit to make it right. If he didn't know, again, that's poor training.
Not having a hammer on him can't come from poor training and that's pretty much inexecusable. He actually brought the mat for the mount in, but left it in my backyard. That combined with the poor routing of the cables, cable tacks that weren't completely tacked in and a host of other things shows to me that he really didn't care about doing a good job. In fact the most effort he probably showed that night was his efforts to leave my house after the install was "finished."
BattleZone
10-16-08, 12:05 PM
I'm still curious about those pigtails. are they all hand made? this one had different lengths and colors, is that normal?
I don't know what moron did that pigtail, but pigtails are absolutely WRONG! Ground wires are supposed to be as short and direct as possible and with minimal bends (and no tight bend radiuses, though that's not really the problem here).
I wish I knew where that came from, as I had a tech from the mid-west who came out to California and started working for me. He was doing that pigtail BS on his ground wires and failed 3 QCs for it. He wasn't happy when he had to spend 3 days going back to all his installs to take them out. Plus, it wastes expensive ground wire (10 ga solid copper wire is expensive!).
But I don't think the sat guy did that pigtail. What he did wrong is that he used the messenger wire all the way to the ground source, which is an instant QC fail. Messenger wire is only allowed from the dish to the ground block (which he also didn't use); from the ground block to the ground source requires 10 ga solid copper wire.
Greg Alsobrook
10-16-08, 12:23 PM
floats,
First off, :welcome_s to DBSTalk!
Sorry that you're having to deal with this mess. If I were you, I would type up a quick email to ellen.filipiak@directv.com and link to this thread... Good luck and keep us posted!
Oh lord, white cable....that stuff isn't good unless they've improved the jacketing over the years. It's never lasted in the sun too long.
The ground is bad, should've cleaned off the paint from the pipe and found a better source. Is that pipe copper? If not, the clamp appears to be galvanized, there is a chance for corrosion there. Also, the 10g should not be twisted, should be straight as possible.
The jumpers, I'm sure some techs like them. I don't, I only use them to sight in and then I remove them, makes for neater service loops and one less connector to possibly corrode up there each line.
Ugh ugh ugh, this is why service calls can be highly irritating.
floats,
First off, :welcome_s to DBSTalk!
Sorry that you're having to deal with this mess. If I were you, I would type up a quick email to ellen.filipiak@directv.com and link to this thread... Good luck and keep us posted!
I took your advice and sent an e-mail to the above address, quoted my first post and linked to this thread. I got a call around 4pm from someone from her office (didn't catch the name). BTW, I was supposed to receive a call from the local installer's office (Mountain was the name of the company, I think), but hadn't received a call since when the supervisor came out on Saturday). The person from Ellen's office apologized for the issues I had and agreed that the install was not up to DirecTV's standards. She said she'd schedule a "lead technician" to come out and fix my issues. They're scheduled to come out tomorrow between 8-12. It's kind of strange that my numerous phone calls ended up with little or no response, but firing off an e-mail gets someone from DirecTV to schedule a service call while I'm on the phone. The previous interactions I've had always ended up with, "someone will call you back in X amount of hours or days" or "it will be escalated and will take X amount of days."
Oh, I have yet to have anyone offer me compensation for the issues with the install, even though one of the TVs is basically unusable and reception/service has been spotty on occasion. I had spoken to someone previously about at least getting a credit for the time that my service has been unusable and she relented and was going to offer me a few weeks of service credits, but since I'm a new customer and have already payed my first bill, she said there wasn't a new bill to issue a credit on. That seemed kind of strange considering all the things I've read about people getting credits on their accounts. In any event, I should probably wait until after all the problems I've had are fixed before I ask for any credits.
HDTVsportsfan
10-17-08, 01:18 PM
Glad to hear you are getting some positive movement on this. The reason why you recieved a response is because you didn't "just fire off an email" to just anyone. She's the the VP of Customer Service or something like that. She's not a front line CSR. And when I say she...i mean her department/group/division.
After all of this is done and working properly.....You should be able to call back and get some credits. They can apply credits no matter when it occurs in the billing cycle. Also, you can go online and look at your account and confirm credits are applied while your on thre phone w/ the CSR.
Keep us informed.
rudeney
10-17-08, 01:20 PM
It's kind of strange that my numerous phone calls ended up with little or no response, but firing off an e-mail gets someone from DirecTV to schedule a service call while I'm on the phone.
It’s not the e-mail, it’s *who* you e-mailed. The people working in Ellen Filipiak’s office like the one who contacted you exist for exactly these type issues, i.e. when a customer is not getting satisfactory service through regular channels.
Oh, I have yet to have anyone offer me compensation for the issues with the install, even though one of the TVs is basically unusable and reception/service has been spotty on occasion. I had spoken to someone previously about at least getting a credit for the time that my service has been unusable and she relented and was going to offer me a few weeks of service credits, but since I'm a new customer and have already payed my first bill, she said there wasn't a new bill to issue a credit on. That seemed kind of strange considering all the things I've read about people getting credits on their accounts. In any event, I should probably wait until after all the problems I've had are fixed before I ask for any credits.
That’s not correct. They can issue credits on a zero-balance account. They do it all the time. I’d had a $30 credit applied that showed on my account as a negative balance. Each month, I get a $5 Bellsouth Answers credit that appears before any charges and takes my balance negative. My advice, if you feel you are owed some level of compensation, is to wait and see what it takes to get this resolved, and once it is, send a final e-mail to Ellen’s office first thanking her for the assistance, and then ask for a credit to offset your troubles.
Greg Alsobrook
10-17-08, 02:51 PM
I took your advice and sent an e-mail to the above address
Good deal. I hope they get you taken care of and everything goes well tomorrow. Once again, keep us posted! :)
What do you guys think of the install pics? Am I nitpicking?
What do I think? It looks like a barrel of ka-ka! I'm surprised you didn't hurl a cow on the installer's head when he started working like that! Unacceptable!
That ^^^^ is why I won't allow an installer near my property. No offense to the good and knowledgeable folks here who actually care about their customers.
waterdragon
10-17-08, 10:06 PM
The pre-made pigtails that come already attached to the lnb are junk in my opinion. Yes they come in 4 different lengths. They are just way to short. I always remove them. If my cable is not going to go all the way to the switch or ground block with out a barrel in it I always try to make sure that barrel is under the eve of the house and that is not possible with a cable that barely comes out of the lnb arm.
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