A tale of two pictures.

[Halfsek]

One of a people who have just been through war.
And one of a people ejoying decades of prosperity not matched anywhere in the world.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030409/capt.1049901490.war_us_iraq_northern_front_sulf102 .jpg

http://idisk.mac.com/kfiralfia/Public/protest_warrior/images/protest_gallery/them/images/0040.jpg

Okay, I can't read Arabic, so for all I know it could say, "yankee donkey lovers go home." But I doubt it.

[Richard King]

We have the same sentiments expressed by that bottom picture being expressed by some right here.

[spanishannouncetable]

Great post, Halfsek. That sums up my own observations eloquently.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, those 2 pictures speak entire volumes. :up:

[Steve Mehs]

It was an incredible thing watching that statue of Saddam go down live. Yet more proof that the US is doing the right thing. Seeing the liberation of the Iraqis was heart warming compared to seeing the disgusting actions of some fellow Americans like in the second picture above. Where are all the anti war people now...

http://www.foxnews.com/images/87239/3_1_040903_iraq_top14.jpg

[RandyAB]

Wonder if some of these people will stop with their Anti-War protests...since the Iraqi's are so happy now.

[Halfsek]

I doubt they'll stop it since they are so obviously an anti Bush/ West/ Israel/ Free Mumia protests.

What will be interesting is what starts happening in about 6 months or so. Once the jublation is over, I want to see how the Iraqi's deal with their new found liberty and how the West deals with Saddam.

It worked with Japan (run under an emperor); let's see if it can work with Iraq.

[kark_1999]

Originally posted by RandyAB
Wonder if some of these people will stop with their Anti-War protests...since the Iraqi's are so happy now.

Do you think we were protesting because the people of Iraq were unhappy? We were/are protesting because the US is a rogue state that just invaded a country illegally for artificial reasons, and is now claiming that the removal of Saddam justifies their illegal actions.

Nobody liked Saddam. Nobody wanted him in power, with the exception of Reagan/Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld back in the 80s, and George Bush (the first one) who squashed an anti-Saddam Shiite rebellion in 1991.

The results of this 2+ week invasion are exactly what the anti-war protesters were complaining about - a huge bully (the US) evading international law and the UN, for reasons of oil and power. Sure Saddam's gone. The end doesn't justify the means. We're still outlaws, and we are still occupying a foreign land. We still lost many of our soldiers for no reason. We still killed many Iraqis, including an estimated 1000 civilians.

Go ahead and cheer. We're fostering more terrorism and resentment. People don't like bullies who don't adhere to law.

[Jack White]

There's one important thing people don't seem to realize.
They were CHEERING IN THE STREETS in Afghanistan when the Taliban came into power.
The Afghanis thought that things were SO BAD because of the civil wars, the warlords, etc that The Taliban would be a good thing for Afghanistan.
Those SAME AFGHANI PEOPLE who were celebrating in the streets when The Taliban came into power were celebrating when the Taliban was REMOVED from power.
99% of the people in the world agreed that Sadam and his government leaving power and MOST IMPORTANTLY THE END of THE SANCTIONS would be good things for Iraq.
The problem is that 99% of the people absolutely DON'T believe that the REAL purpose of this war is to free the Iraqi people.
The thing that TOTALLY convinced the world that this war is NOT really about freeing the Iraqi people is when the US government said that EVEN IF SADDAM AND THE ENTIRE BATTH PARTY go into exile, the ALLIES would STILL HAVE INVADED Iraq (probably to secured the oil fields).
That right there was THE SMOKING GUN for people who wondered if this war was about oil or not.
People around the world KNOW history, then KNOW how the US Government and all the PRO-war people in the US didn't give a RAT's behind while MILLIONS were dying in Sudan and Ruwanda.
I'm sure there are people that are celebrating in Iraq, but there are other thousand of civilians who are CRYING because their families have been killed by allied bombs.
The news doesn't show that side of the story.
There are other civilians in Iraq who don't want to go from a Batth Party Dictator to a US Puppet Dictator.
They want a Democratic government of their own not a US/Israel/UK puppet.
The other thing that is just SHAMEFUL of the pro war people is how they were all talking about the WMDs and now in the new polls the pro-war people say "well it really doesn't matter if Iraq had WMDs or not".
THAT POOL PROVES that this war is NOT ABOUT WMDs to most pro-war people, the fact about how the pro-war people reacted to Sudan and Ruwanda PROVED that the pro-war people don't GIVE a rat's behind about liberating oppressed people.
When you take away the IMPOSSIBLE, whatever's left no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
What reasons for war are left after WMDs, and liberating opressed people are removed as possible reasons?
332 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL worth like 8 or 10 TRILLION BUCKS(even dwarfing the NATIONAL DEBT), destroying Israel's and Kuwait's greatest threat, PARANOIA, Anti-Arab Racism/Islamaphobia, REVENGE for Saddam's attempt to assisanate Bush sr, MISPLACED revenge for 9/11(there were ZERO Iraqis on the planes and there is NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that Iraq was behind 9/11), a base of military operations against Iran, Syria, or even Saudia Arabia, TOTAL independence from Saudi Oil, etc.
Those are just a FEW of the hundreds of possible reasons for the war.

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by Jack White
There's one important thing people don't seem to realize....

Someone called for it earlier, so I shall start the trend.

Mmmm, Britney, I've been such a bad boy.

http://www.amentecapta.blogger.com.br/Britney%20Spears.jpg

[gcutler]

Originally posted by Halfsek
Mmmm, Britney, I've been such a bad boy.

:goodjob:

[kark_1999]

Originally posted by Jack White
There's one important thing people don't seem to realize... (snip)...


Great post, Jack.

[Punkitup]

Unfortunately, the photo I attach here (or versions of it) is the one it is said that is getting the most comment in the Arab media. I am hardly a slave to political correctness and I totally understand the sentiment of pride of accomplishment, but this really was an unnecessary show of bravado.

If there was a standing order not to display the American flag, this Marine could be in for some trouble. It would not surprise me to find out this Marine is facing Office Hours. The term Office Hours or while on a naval vessel Captain’s Mast refers to a non-judicial disciplinary action, where the Marine could be subject to a reduction in rank and/or forfeiture of pay.

I am not saying I agree with this, but there it is, if there was a standing order he disobeyed it in his exuberance. Some one at Central Command is probable calling for accountability right now, and sh*t rolls down hill. 
 
Pray for Peace
James – USMC 1980-84

 

 

[cooper]

I have to work a Pro War/Pro Troops rally today down at Ground Zero. Nice change of pace from the last few weeks.

[jrjcd]

did anyone see the other saddam statue get it's crotch blown off this morning....?????hilarious!!!

[Nick]

BULLSEYE!!!!!!! :D

Very symbolic, as are all the statues of
this dirtbag. Dark and hollow, has to be
propped up, out of reach of the people.

[Richard King]

There's one important thing people don't seem to
realize....

Great post, Halfsek

[toenail]

It sure is reassuring that two of the most outspoken leftists at this site are Jack and "It must be Friday." Even if I were to desert the right, I could never go to the left! :lol:

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by Punkitup
Unfortunately, the photo I attach here (or versions of it) is the one it is said that is getting the most comment in the Arab media. I am hardly a slave to political correctness and I totally understand the sentiment of pride of accomplishment, but this really was an unnecessary show of bravado...



Don't know if you know this, but the Marines quickly removed the American flag and replaced it with an Iraqi one.

Look, we have to cut them a little slack. Considering everything they've been through, it's a little understandble for them to have a slight mental fart as this.
I agree that it probably 'sounded like a good idea at the time,' until it was implemented; but at the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if the Iraqi people nearby were cheering whene they saw the American flag draped over Saddam.

[Tomsoundman]

I agree with Hafsek. They (coalition) have been through much in three weeks and no shower. High stress, etc.

By the way, nice avatar! Pootie Tang says "Sine your pitty on the runny tine."

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by Tomsoundman
...
By the way, nice avatar! Pootie Tang says "Sine your pitty on the runny tine."

Good call!

Sadatay on da tippitay!

[Danny R]

In general I agree with much of Jack's first remarks about how the US is looked upon by Arab countries and see no reason to start giving him the Roger treatment just yet, although he should certainly lighten up on the ALL CAPS.

My own opinion is that many Iraqi's are conditioned to cheer for anyone in power. If an Iraqi general came out and made a show of force, they would be expected to go out and cheer. Thus I'm somewhat doubtful when seeing Iraqi's cheering on our forces.

However many things aren't true in his statement:

332 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL worth like 8 or 10 TRILLION BUCKS(even dwarfing the NATIONAL DEBT)

This oil does not suddenly go to the US. Sure it might be worth trillions, but that is money the US would have to pay for it. While many keep chanting the mantra that this war is for oil, I simply do not see this as the case. Please tell me how we can profit from Iraqi oil.

Anti-Arab Racism/Islamaphobia

Iraq's version of Islam is very mild compared to the strict fundamentalism of Afghanistan. I just don't see racism as having anything to do with this.

MISPLACED revenge for 9/11(there were ZERO Iraqis on the planes and there is NOT ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that Iraq was behind 9/11

Sorry, wrong answer. While Saddam likely had nothing to do with 9/11 and I'd be very surprised he even knew it was planned... he did however turn a blind eye toward terrorist camps in his country and allowed them to operate and train freely within his borders. Thus while not actively supporting terrorism, he is still guilty by association.

a base of military operations against Iran, Syria, or even Saudia Arabia

This is extremely farfetched in my opinion, especitally the bit about Saudi Arabia.

TOTAL independence from Saudi Oil, etc.

The US already imported almost half of all of Iraq's oil. Even if we took all of it it still wouldn't supplant Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the #1 oil exporting nation with 25% of the worlds proven oil fields. Iraq simply isn't a substitute, even if what you say made any geopolitical political sense at all.

[Punkitup]

Originally posted by Halfsek


Don't know if you know this, but the Marines quickly removed the American flag and replaced it with an Iraqi one.

Look, we have to cut them a little slack. Considering everything they've been through, it's a little understandble for them to have a slight mental fart as this.
I agree that it probably 'sounded like a good idea at the time,' until it was implemented; but at the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if the Iraqi people nearby were cheering whene they saw the American flag draped over Saddam.

 

Yes, I was aware that the flag had been replaced with a pre-gulf war Iraqi flag, actually I was among a group of people here who were commenting on the events as they happened (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14267). 


My purpose in bringing up the incident was certainly not to cast judgment, other then to state the obvious, that it was an act open for misinterpretation. A tour of the Arab on-line media early this morning showed that to be the case in many instances. This shouldn’t be surprising as there are some Arab media outlets that are ignoring the events of the entire day, as if they never occurred, and giving no account of Iraqi jubilation. There are in fact some Arab media outlets expressing editorial disappointment that the Iraqis didn’t put up a better fight for the ‘honor of the Arab nations’, seemingly not grasping or at least discounting the degree of misery the Iraqi people felt under Saddam.

And it should be no great revelation that the American flag photo was the front-page banner of many European papers today, accompanied by various editorial slants.

From my point of view what’s done is done, there was no real harm and we should move on. But you can see where this isn’t the view all around. Perhaps this sub-thread should be titled “ Two Tales of The Same Picture”.

 
Pray for Peace
James – USMC 1980-84
"Armed and Curious"

 

[toenail]

Not only are the pictures quite varying, but the reaction of various groups, blogs, news organizations, and politicians also vary greatly. The liberation of Baghdad is good news that should be greeted with joy by all freedom loving people. Unfortunately, some (the usual suspects) don't see it that way at all. The attached link is a nice article about this issue.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=7213

[Richard King]

This shouldn’t be surprising as there are some Arab media outlets that are ignoring the events of the entire day, as if they never occurred, and giving no account of Iraqi jubilation.While the citizens of Baghdad were in the process of toppling the statue and riding around on Saddam's head as though it were a tobaggon, the BBC was covering an earthquake in India.