When will the MPEG-2 HD feeds be cut off?

[wilbur_the_goose]

Any idea?

I'd love for D* to reclaim those channels (70-99) and use the bandwidth to improve their SD offerings.

[davring]

Everyone uses the word "soon" here alot lately. Seems like they still have alot of holdouts with the old equipment and still changing people over.

[harsh]

I'm betting that D* isn't particularly motivated to devote a lot of resources to improving their SD signals; especially those SD channels that are HD mirrors.

It will be interesting to see what they have in mind for 110W as I question whether they are meeting their licensing obligation to occupy the lot.

[tvjay]

I'm betting that D* isn't particularly motivated to devote a lot of resources to improving their SD signals; especially those SD channels that are HD mirrors.

It will be interesting to see what they have in mind for 110W as I question whether they are meeting their licensing obligation to occupy the lot.

I thought that they were moving the 72.5 signals to 110 and 119 once MPEG2 is turned off.

[texasbrit]

I thought that they were moving the 72.5 signals to 110 and 119 once MPEG2 is turned off.
No, they are supposedly going to DirecTV10/11 at 103/99. People getting new service in many 72.5 cities are already getting MPEG-4 boxes in anticipation of the switch.

[kevinwmsn]

I thought they were moving the international channels (95 degrees) to 119 or 110.

[BattleZone]

I thought they were moving the international channels (95 degrees) to 119 or 110.

Many of us (myself included) have speculated that that would happen, as it makes a ton of sense, but DirecTV has said NOTHING official about what those TPs will be used for once the legacy HD channels have been removed.

[sbl]

A reliable source has said:

HD Channel Moves to MPEG4

NFL SUNDAY TICKET SuperFan
9/7/2008

LA HD Locals
9/17/2008

West Coast DNS Locals
9/17/2008

HBO, Showtime
11/12/2008

Universal HD, HD Net Movies
11/12/2008

ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, HD Net, HD Theater
1/14/2009

NY HD Locals
3/18/2009

East Coast DNS Locals
3/18/2009

[Grentz]

This should really have nothing to do with national SD channels quality as the national SD channels come from 101, not 110/119.

110 is pretty open and 119 is seeming to get more and more open especially now that a chunk of locals moved.

I hope they use them for international programming, that would make so much sense. Then they could cover every customer with the same dish, just would either have a SL3, SL3s, SL5, or SL5s LNB on the Dish.

[evan_s]

I don't know that DirecTV has made any official statements on their plans but the SL3 would seem to be a pretty clear indication that they don't expect to use 110/119 for their core HD or SD service going forward. So far all the 72.5 markets have been going to 99/103 in mpeg for which does make some sense since they are all east coast and have a harder time with 110/119. Additionally the sat they have at 110 is apparently only configured for conus and not spots.

Given that information and the current situation with international channels it would make sense that they would move it to 110/119 instead of keeping it where it is requiring a special dish and continuing to rent that sat space.

I don't know how much of 110/119 that would take up and if there is a possibility for more spots from 119 for sd locals. I believe some of DNS hd channels are actually off 101 currently so they would free up some space on 101 at that point. I don't know what will happen there but I don't think it's enough space to make a major improvements to all the SD channels currently coming from 101.

[Jhon69]

Any idea?

I'd love for D* to reclaim those channels (70-99) and use the bandwidth to improve their SD offerings.


Will be interesting wonder if HD Access subscribers who will not change to the HRs will make any difference considering now that DirecTV has signed another agreement with Tivo?.I have HD Access now and will save $9.99 when they do move having my HR10-250 setup for SD.;)

On the other hand I don't mind receiving channels that basically I can't get with my Premier package in SD.Which if DirecTV would make available all the other channels in SD that HD has now I believe would be a good idea.;)

Think maybe if DirecTV would offer like the Smithsonian Channel and the other different HD channels in SD DirecTV may find an untapped market.;)

[Shades228]

I thought that they were moving the 72.5 signals to 110 and 119 once MPEG2 is turned off.

72.5 WL Orbital License

As part of an arrangement with Telesat, a Canadian telecommunications and broadcast services company, we agreed to provide Telesat the use of the DIRECTV 3 satellite, which was previously used as an in-orbit spare, through the end of its useful life and in return Telesat agreed to allow us the use of its 72.5 WL orbital location through 2008. As additional consideration for our use of 72.5 WL, we also agreed to allow Telesat to use DIRECTV 5 or a similar satellite for a five year period, subject to certain conditions, beginning at the end of 2008. Upon receipt of final approval from the FCC in the third quarter of 2004, we transferred DIRECTV 3 to Telesat and relocated DIRECTV 5, which was also an in-orbit spare, to 72.5 WL to provide additional local channels and other programming in the United States. We recorded these transactions as an exchange of similar productive assets based on the net book values of the assets exchanged. As a result during the third quarter of 2004, we recorded a $172.5 million 72.5 WL orbital license intangible asset, which is equal to the $81.4 million net book value of the DIRECTV 3 satellite transferred from satellites, net, and an accrual for deferred lease revenues of $91.1 million, representing the value of the transferred satellite over the five year lease period. We are amortizing the 72.5 WL orbital license intangible asset over the four year contract period and will recognize the deferred lease revenues as an offset to depreciation expense during the five year lease period beginning at the end of 2008.



Source=http://sec.edgar-online.com/2005/05/05/0001047469-05-013474/Section6.asp

So right now the biggest thing to moving stuff around is the 72.5. Which is estimated to be completed in the beginning of November.

The fact that they're starting to install the SL3 in major markets would suggest the rest of the mpeg 2 channels will move, that don't already have a mpeg 4 simulcast, soon as customers who get the hd extra pack won't see a couple of the channels.

[inkahauts]

Will be interesting wonder if HD Access subscribers who will not change to the HRs will make any difference considering now that DirecTV has signed another agreement with Tivo?.I have HD Access now and will save $9.99 when they do move having my HR10-250 setup for SD.;)

On the other hand I don't mind receiving channels that basically I can't get with my Premier package in SD.Which if DirecTV would make available all the other channels in SD that HD has now I believe would be a good idea.;)

Think maybe if DirecTV would offer like the Smithsonian Channel and the other different HD channels in SD DirecTV may find an untapped market.;)

Ah, no.....

The new Tivo deal has NOTHING to do with them getting rid of HD MPEG-2 feeds... In fact, the new Tivo will be MPEG-4...

I'm not convinced they will let you get rid of hd access.. sense you will still be able to use OTA to get HD....

I don't understand why anyone who likes HD wouldn't get a HR and there is no way Directv has any intention of keeping up mpeg-2 feeds long term for anyone... Heck, they will some day probably get rid of sd mpeg 2 as well...

And they would devalue HD extra pack if they offered an sd feed.. they will never do that. If you want the channels, get an HR2.... Directv is giving them away to upgrade customers....

[inkahauts]

I don't know that DirecTV has made any official statements on their plans but the SL3 would seem to be a pretty clear indication that they don't expect to use 110/119 for their core HD or SD service going forward. So far all the 72.5 markets have been going to 99/103 in mpeg for which does make some sense since they are all east coast and have a harder time with 110/119. Additionally the sat they have at 110 is apparently only configured for conus and not spots.

Given that information and the current situation with international channels it would make sense that they would move it to 110/119 instead of keeping it where it is requiring a special dish and continuing to rent that sat space.

I don't know how much of 110/119 that would take up and if there is a possibility for more spots from 119 for sd locals. I believe some of DNS hd channels are actually off 101 currently so they would free up some space on 101 at that point. I don't know what will happen there but I don't think it's enough space to make a major improvements to all the SD channels currently coming from 101.

Moving LIL from 72.5 to 99 in MPEG-4 is great, because that will make the switch to turn those markets into HD markets easy... No customer upgrades, and no need to broadcast a SD and an HD channel for each... just one HD channel...

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they do a lot of manuevring next year of where they broadcast different channels from, but i seriously doubt they would simply give up any licenses... SO I expect that they will be broadcasting something from 110 and 119 for a very long time... Maybe internationals, and maybe some LIL too... In fact, I would almost think it would make sense for them to broadcast AK and HI from 119 in MPEG-4 at some point... maybe after they clear some bandwidth??? There is no reason that they can't turn more of the bandwidth from 119 into spotbeam signals instead of conus either, assuming that sat is setup like D10... where they have multiple extra transponders for both conus and spotbeam.... That would allow them to broadcast more LIL in HD as well... Frankly, there are so many possibilities that speculate could be endless until they actually announce something....

[Shades228]

Will be interesting wonder if HD Access subscribers who will not change to the HRs will make any difference considering now that DirecTV has signed another agreement with Tivo?.I have HD Access now and will save $9.99 when they do move having my HR10-250 setup for SD.;)

On the other hand I don't mind receiving channels that basically I can't get with my Premier package in SD.Which if DirecTV would make available all the other channels in SD that HD has now I believe would be a good idea.;)

Think maybe if DirecTV would offer like the Smithsonian Channel and the other different HD channels in SD DirecTV may find an untapped market.;)


I'm pretty sure smithsonian only makes hd content. You could still watch it on a SD tv it would just down convert.

The bigger question is why are you paying $120 a year (rounded the pennies) for such a small pool of hd feeds? Just do the legacy swap and get the new model.

[hdtvfan0001]

To answer the OP question....we have no official word...but it would most likely happen some time before the end of 1Q 2009.

[LameLefty]

There is no reason that they can't turn more of the bandwidth from 119 into spotbeam signals instead of conus either, assuming that sat is setup like D10... where they have multiple extra transponders for both conus and spotbeam....

Directv currently has Directv 7S parked at 119, with 54 spotbeam transponders. They only have 8 licensed transponder frequencies there, so obviously a spotbeam sat is the only way they can use that location effectively. The sat is only 4-1/2 years old too, so it's got lots of life left.

[RVD26]

I hope they use them for international programming, that would make so much sense. Then they could cover every customer with the same dish, just would either have a SL3, SL3s, SL5, or SL5s LNB on the Dish.

Sorry, this may be a dumb question, but:
What's the difference between SL3 and SL3s?

[Jhon69]

I'm pretty sure smithsonian only makes hd content. You could still watch it on a SD tv it would just down convert.

The bigger question is why are you paying $120 a year (rounded the pennies) for such a small pool of hd feeds? Just do the legacy swap and get the new model.


Because when I activated an HR10-250 that I plan on using for SD there are still MPEG2 HD channels.So until the MPEG2 HD channels move to MPEG4 I have to have HD Access.

Don't need to swap I also have the R22-100 on my 50" RPTV.;)

[davring]

Because when I activated an HR10-250 that I plan on using for SD there are still MPEG2 HD channels.So until the MPEG2 HD channels move to MPEG4 I have to have HD Access.

Don't need to swap I also have the R22-100 on my 50" RPTV.;)

So you are still paying HD access and missing all the additional channels which would cost you nothing mosre than a receiver swap.

[Jhon69]

Ah, no.....

The new Tivo deal has NOTHING to do with them getting rid of HD MPEG-2 feeds... In fact, the new Tivo will be MPEG-4...

I'm not convinced they will let you get rid of hd access.. sense you will still be able to use OTA to get HD....

I don't understand why anyone who likes HD wouldn't get a HR and there is no way Directv has any intention of keeping up mpeg-2 feeds long term for anyone... Heck, they will some day probably get rid of sd mpeg 2 as well...

And they would devalue HD extra pack if they offered an sd feed.. they will never do that. If you want the channels, get an HR2.... Directv is giving them away to upgrade customers....



Would imagine the new DirecTivo would be both MPEG2 and MPEG4.Now there's a good question I didn't ask myself"Will DirecTV force me to keep the HD Access fee because I could receive HD OTA locals,when the MPEG2 HD channels move to MPEG4"?.Which by the way I don't.At that time I would probably see if DirecTV can turn my R22-100 into a HR21.;)

[Santi360HD]

MPEG2 served its purpose when I came home with my brand spanking new HD LCD and Direct TV HD (NON DVR) box and only to my knowledge that i'd need a whole new LNB & Dish as well...I had the 3 LNB (AND THE VERY FEW REMAINING MPEG2 channels) held me over till the tech came over to mount the dish..Thanks MPEG 2 for being there..also thanks to Tme Warner here in NYC having so many DTV channels in their band most 480 and some 720, not alot in 1080...Who woulda thought so much useless channels would be pumped by just putting a coax line straight into your set... held me over till I got the new dish as well..and is a nice option backup for RAINfall !!

Game on , and mad respect for MPEG2...holla !

[Greg Bimson]

I don't know that DirecTV has made any official statements on their plans but the SL3 would seem to be a pretty clear indication that they don't expect to use 110/119 for their core HD or SD service going forward.That makes sense.

The only channels left on 110 appear to be HBOHD, SHOHD, ESPNHD, TNTHD, HDNetMovies, CBSEHD and NBCEHD. Once they're gone, that's three transponders free.

The only channels left on 119 appear to be the much of the Latino/foreign package and more MPEG2 HD. There are about 60 markets of locals in SD format, spot-beamed.

So the "core" requirement will be gone once the HD is moved to 99/103. It will leave 110/119 combo with only the Latino/foreign package and the spot-beam locals from D7S at 119.

In addition, DirecTV is only using 7 transponders at 95 for the remainder of their foreign programming. That might be able to be consolidated to the vacancies left by the HD programming at 110/119. Kind of a good idea, as that satellite is also being leased, so moving that programming to your owned satellites is a good idea.

[inkahauts]

Would imagine the new DirecTivo would be both MPEG2 and MPEG4.Now there's a good question I didn't ask myself"Will DirecTV force me to keep the HD Access fee because I could receive HD OTA locals,when the MPEG2 HD channels move to MPEG4"?.Which by the way I don't.At that time I would probably see if DirecTV can turn my R22-100 into a HR21.;)

So are you saying you only have SD tv's? If so, I understand what your saying now... If not, I still don't get why you haven't upgraded... You know, if you ask them, they will get you an HR2X for free for upgrading your tivo... but will also allow you to keep you tivos active on your account so you can still use them...

[inkahauts]

Directv currently has Directv 7S parked at 119, with 54 spotbeam transponders. They only have 8 licensed transponder frequencies there, so obviously a spotbeam sat is the only way they can use that location effectively. The sat is only 4-1/2 years old too, so it's got lots of life left.

They do have a couple conus feeds from 119 as well.... And I was just think they could turn thoes feeds off and fire up more spot beams if they have some spare ones pointed in the right places and use the current conus bandwidth for multiple spotbeam transponders... But like I said, I don't know the configuration of the sat enough to know if thats possible...

[Jhon69]

So are you saying you only have SD tv's? If so, I understand what your saying now... If not, I still don't get why you haven't upgraded... You know, if you ask them, they will get you an HR2X for free for upgrading your tivo... but will also allow you to keep you tivos active on your account so you can still use them...


Yes I have only 1 one RPTV.

[BattleZone]

They do have a couple conus feeds from 119 as well.... And I was just think they could turn thoes feeds off and fire up more spot beams if they have some spare ones pointed in the right places and use the current conus bandwidth for multiple spotbeam transponders... But like I said, I don't know the configuration of the sat enough to know if thats possible...

It is very likely that this will happen, to expand Local coverage to many smaller DMAs that don't currently get locals via sat.

But the 110 space would be ideal for Internationals.

[evan_s]

110 alone doesn't have enough space for all the international channels if they are using up 7 transponders at their current location. Even if they went mpeg4 sd it would still be tight since 110 only has 3 transponders. They may be able to add more spots but they will definitely need to use some conus bandwidth on 119 for the international channels to move off their current location.

[RAD]

110 alone doesn't have enough space for all the international channels if they are using up 7 transponders at their current location. Even if they went mpeg4 sd it would still be tight since 110 only has 3 transponders. They may be able to add more spots but they will definitely need to use some conus bandwidth on 119 for the international channels to move off their current location.

Scott G over at the other guys has said that Dish testing of MPEG4 SD channels allows them to put around 50 SD channels per transponder. So if you figure the usual 12 SD MPEG4 channels per transponder and 7 transponders that's 84 channels which if what Scott said is accurate then they could fit them on the 3 transponders at 110 with room to spare.

[LameLefty]

Scott G over at the other guys has said that Dish testing of MPEG4 SD channels allows them to put around 50 SD channels per transponder. So if you figure the usual 12 SD MPEG4 channels per transponder and 7 transponders that's 84 channels which if what Scott said is accurate then they could fit them on the 3 transponders at 110 with room to spare.

Is that Ka or Ku band?

[paulman182]

Is that Ka or Ku band?

That really wouldn't matter as long as the transponder bandwidth is equivalent.

[LameLefty]

That really wouldn't matter as long as the transponder bandwidth is equivalent.

But are they? That's the question. RAD is commenting on Dish's experience. I'm curious how they can come up with 50 channels per tp in MPEG4. There are a LOT of variables involved and one of the first things to nail down in a comparison is what frequency band you're talking about.

[RAD]

Is that Ka or Ku band?

IIRC what he said the test was on Ku using a transponder over at 148.

[Greg Bimson]

They do have a couple conus feeds from 119 as well.... And I was just think they could turn thoes feeds off and fire up more spot beams if they have some spare ones pointed in the right places and use the current conus bandwidth for multiple spotbeam transponders... But like I said, I don't know the configuration of the sat enough to know if thats possible...It is very likely that this will happen, to expand Local coverage to many smaller DMAs that don't currently get locals via sat.

But the 110 space would be ideal for Internationals.Let's see if I have this right...

DirecTV 5 is the satellite at 110; it has 16 transponders but can only broadcast on the three that are licensed at 110: 28, 30 and 32. No spot beams, here.

DirecTV 7S is the satellite at 119; it is currently broadcasting 44 transponders. DirecTV is only licensed on 11 transponder frequencies, between transponders 22 and 32. This is accomplished by having DirecTV broadcast 11 transponders of uplinks from four separate sites, so 4*11 is 44.

Seven of these transponders are for CONUS use, while the remaining 37 are being used as spot-beam transponders. All but one of those are fairly full.

There isn't any space to "fire-up" additional spot-beams on either of these.

[evan_s]

Scott G over at the other guys has said that Dish testing of MPEG4 SD channels allows them to put around 50 SD channels per transponder. So if you figure the usual 12 SD MPEG4 channels per transponder and 7 transponders that's 84 channels which if what Scott said is accurate then they could fit them on the 3 transponders at 110 with room to spare.

Time will tell on that. Dish tech may not always apply to DirecTV just like DirecTvs use of Ka doesn't apply to dish. There is also the question of the quality of those channels. Not that Directvs sd quality is all that great right now.

[russdog]

DirecTV 5 is the satellite at 110; it has 16 transponders but can only broadcast on the three that are licensed at 110: 28, 30 and 32.
Forgive my ignorance, but who does the licensing? Is it the FCC?

If so, do they have any standards or requirements for licensing? There used to be various public service requirements that broadcasters had to meet for renewal of their OTA broadcast license. (Perhaps there still are, but weaker than before.) Is there anything analogous for sats? Or is licensing just a 100% financial transaction?

Anybody know how much a license costs? Is it a significant ongoing revenue stream, or a minimal-fee giveaway, or what?

[LameLefty]

Forgive my ignorance, but who does the licensing? Is it the FCC?


In a nutshell, the FCC licenses the spectrum allocated to the U.S. by the ITU, who is responsible for divvying up all the spectrum and GSO slots around the globe.