I might offend everyone

[Mark]

Does anyone else see all the hypocrie in the american and arab claims in the press..

Both sides lie, cheat and steal.

Shame on the hole mess of us..

Some days I think if a comet smash into the planet-- we would have it commin..

 

Just my  way of thinking.. 

 

[Tomsoundman]

I see the Americans have independent jouralists with the troops. Since you or I are not there, we must rely on what they say. I sure do believe them rather than a government controlled media.

I don't think we should blame everyone on both sides, do you really believe that?

[raj2001]

Yes, I agree with the OP.

[Tomsoundman]

what is the op?

[John Hodgson]

... Offical Position I'm guessing ????

[Nick]

Orwellian Propoganda?

[Tomsoundman]

Ya down with OPP?

[Rick_EE]

I think he means other post

[sampatterson]

No offense taken. Thank God or Allah (or your chosen diety) that we have free speech in America to say what we want to say, even if it might offend some.

[Tomsoundman]

Right.
And we are thankful for freedom to do what we are doing right now on this forum - discussing things (hopefully) in a civil way, etc. etc.

[Bogy]

Originally posted by Tomsoundman
I see the Americans have independent jouralists with the troops. Since you or I are not there, we must rely on what they say. I sure do believe them rather than a government controlled media.

I don't think we should blame everyone on both sides, do you really believe that?
We all know about the "other side," although to make the judgment that you cannot believe any of what the Arab media has to say would be wrong. Although they look at things from a different perspective, some of them have been more accurate than some U.S. sources.

As far as the embedded journalists, to call them "independent," is not quite accurate. To go so far as to call them "government controlled" would also not be completely accurate. They are somewhere in between, reporting only what they are allowed to report, having built comeradery with the troops through common experiences. The truly independent journalists are the non-embedded. And even they have limitations placed upon what they can report.

This is a war that has been reported in a way no other ever was, but a certain amount of cynicism toward that reporting, balancing various sources, is probably still the best advice.

[Mark]

Sadam Was a big murdering thug, But what about china?
Or the south America dictators we let live, or the old south Africa,
or the new south Africa. what about all the other crap country's.

Is that OK??... If we are going to stand on the high ground then by god the other ones got it coming tooooooo.

[toenail]

Originally posted by Mark
Sadam Was a big murdering thug, But what about china?
Or the south America dictators we let live, or the old south Africa,
or the new south Africa. what about all the other crap country's.

Is that OK??... If we are going to stand on the high ground then by god the other ones got it coming tooooooo.

You're right, they do have it coming. But can you imagine the outcry if we tried to deliver it to them??? You think there were protests about Iraq? Buddy, you ain't seen nothing yet! It would just further confirm to the leftists that Bush wants to be emporer of the world. My feeling is, if we could succeed in removing all blood-thirsty dictators from the world, we should go for it. But that would take an incredible amount of courage. Something we have been lacking til recently.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Rick Densing
I think he means other post

Original Poster.

[Mark]

ALL RIGHT i changed my mind FRANCE IS NEXT!!!!!

[Punkitup]

Originally posted by toenail
  My feeling is, if we could succeed in removing all blood-thirsty dictators from the world, we should go for it. But that would take an incredible amount of courage. Something we have been lacking til recently.

It would take a lot more then just “the courage”, It would take an incredible amount of money. Military hardware is not cheap, there are no free marketplace bargains to be had, and the companies that make this stuff add a nice hefty markup in line with the monopolies they hold. The cost of just one CAL or TLAM Cruise Missile would pay my salary for 9 years, based on a unit cost of $600,000. But lets not use an aging punk-rocker like me as an example lets look at some kid starting out in life with a wife and a child and getting $10.00 an hour, what does one TLAM mean to him? That would pay his salary for nearly 29 years. We have to date launched some where in the neighborhood of a 700 combined CAL and TLAM Cruise missiles on Iraq, or in other words we have expended that kids salary for the next 20,300 years. And lets say we run into an adversary who is not afraid to turn on his radars and start targeted launches of SAM’s, unlike the Iraqis who were so spooked they just threw them in the air. If F/A-18E Super Hornet aircraft start dropping out of the air at $35,000,000. a piece that same kid could be out of work till the next ice-age. This is of course wild oversimplification, but you get the gist.

And that’s just a slice of the military end of the expense, I could use my same screwy math in regard to the post action costs for each of these proposed incursions. The bill for the civil end of Iraq hasn’t even been spoken aloud yet; it has the potential of being staggering. Sure the Iraqis can rebuild the country, but by whom, and with what are the Teachers, Engineers, Doctors, Dock workers, etc. to be paid in the near term, they no longer even have a national currency. Yes they have oil, but how long till that comes on line, and at what cost to the American taxpayer to get that far. Perhaps we should ship over the countless folks we see standing on the side of the road here with the signs reading “will work for food”, so they can share the experience with the Iraqis. We are there and we have no choice but to foot the bill and an obligation to get the job done properly, but can we afford to make this national policy in the future?

This next bit is not aimed at anyone here, but lets talk of “courage” and by that I mean the courage to give up your comfortable existence and follow a cause that it is easy to give lip service to while watching it from your armchair. Or on the other hand be sent to facilitate an action you may not even understand let alone support, just because someone in Washington tells you it’s the right thing to do. How many kids in their late teens and early twenties do you know right now that would be willing to signup and ship off to be the world's policemen? The kids serving right now are the exception not the rule! And because as each of these actions takes place we must strip off forces to remain in a post-action supporting roll, we would almost certainly have to institute the draft, in order to maintain force readiness. We have had a lot of honest and heartfelt protesters; we have also had of late a lot of kids taking the day off from Harvard to fashionably protest. Does anyone see many of them going along with a draft willingly? Hell, a good number of them couldn’t even find Iraq on a map, unless it was included in a Sony Play Station game. And it would be a proportional amount of these the so-called “best & brightest” that would have to go, no deferments, another Vietnam with poor and working class kids going off to fight in disproportionate numbers just wouldn’t fly. And what about Mom & Dad drafty, they are paying all that tuition money so Jr. can grow up to be a successful Proctologist and support the GOP, not go off to fight in the middle east, aren’t they going to start asking questions?

I hear Fox News already starting to beat the war drums in the direction of Syria while shrugging off the myriad of possible complications and prior to any national debate and it frankly pisses me off. Don’t get me wrong I have personal experience of Syrian supported terrorism and an axe to grind, and if given the opportunity I would get up tomorrow morning, put a bullet in Bashar al-Assad’s head and then sit down to contemplate the possible loss of my immortal soul over a nice bowl of corn flakes. But this violent daydream of Fox News and myself aside, does anyone think that Syria would be the same pushover that Iraqi was? Does anyone believe it is not highly likely Israel would be drawn into a conflict with Syria? Does anyone think we wouldn’t be fighting against and then paying for the rebuilding of Syria, Lebanon and the Palestinian territories, which are in practicality synonymous? Does anyone think the influx of foreign fighters into Syria wouldn’t dwarf that which headed for Iraq? Part of the supplemental budget submitted for this Iraq war went to handouts to garner the support of various countries. How much glad-handing would it take to “get busy” in Syria? We are less then 5% of the world’s population of 6,286,149,388 people; can we afford to payoff or support them all?

It would be no skin off my butt to see Syria one of the worst supporters of terroism in the world go down. But hey at this point in my life I figure I'm just along for the ride, I ain't driving the Bus, but I can see a lot of people asking who is if we turn toward Syria, and I wouldn't blame them.   
 
Pray for Peace
James – USMC 1980-84
"Armed and Curious"

 

[Bogy]

The military and administration have already been using the excuse, "Since we can't find the WMD, they must already be in Syria."

Before the war started, in an interview I heard, a member of the administration was asked about the cost of the war, and the fact that at that time no appropriation had been sought from Congress to pay for it. "Didn't need it, because the military already has lots of cruise missiles, etc." I guess replacing the stuff that gets blown up doesn't cost anything. :(

[RichW]

Cheney wanted to conduct the war "on the cheap" to the dismay of the joints chiefs. Unfortunately, Rumsfeld was on Cheney's side until public opinion started to weaken a bit when the ground assault stalled. Finally more support got called in. We are still spread pretty thinly in the North, but Turkey is the supposed cause of that.

The recent appropriations might even give a bit of a boost to th economy, but if the tax cuts proposed by the house go through, interest rates will rise big time. Fortunately, the Senate seems to opposed to large tax cuts.

[Mike123abc]

No doubt Turkey is the cause of it. If the 4th ID had been able to enter from the North at the same time the rest came up from the South, fighting probably would have been a week shorter, and last week we would have finished. Just now we are moving the 4th ID up to take over the North.

[Cheyenne]

Welcome to reallity, Mark.
It's not so bad, just human.