Need Explanation of Dish Fees

[RayGambo]

I am new to satellite TV so maybe the answer to my questions are obvious to others. Here goes-

I pay about $70/month for programming which is excessive but understandable. What I don’t understand are the following:

DVR Service Fee…………………………$5.98/month
External Hard Drive Activation…$39.99/one time
Programming Access Fee………….$5.00/month

What value/service is Dish providing for these fees?

Also, my statement says that an equipment rental fee of $7.00 is included in my programming package. Why am I paying a rental fee for equipment I own?

All I get from the Dish CSR is gobbledygook read off a card. Any ideas?

[dbrakob]

DVR Service Fee is a monthly charge for just that, DVR service. If you have a DVR vice a receiver you get that charge.

External Hard Drive Activation is a one time charge to activate the USB ports on your DVR so you can archive on a EHD.

Not sure about the last.

[MattDL]

I am new to satellite TV so maybe the answer to my questions are obvious to others. Here goes-

I pay about $70/month for programming which is excessive but understandable. What I don’t understand are the following:

DVR Service Fee…………………………$5.98/month
External Hard Drive Activation…$39.99/one time
Programming Access Fee………….$5.00/month

What value/service is Dish providing for these fees?

Also, my statement says that an equipment rental fee of $7.00 is included in my programming package. Why am I paying a rental fee for equipment I own?

All I get from the Dish CSR is gobbledygook read off a card. Any ideas?

$5.98 is for DVR access. If you have DVR Advantage then this is for a 2nd DVR.
HD Activation is a one time fee to add an external hard drive to your receiver
$5 is most likely for your locals. If you have OTA locals you can eliminate this with an OTA antenna.

[boba]

I am new to satellite TV so maybe the answer to my questions are obvious to others. Here goes-

I pay about $70/month for programming which is excessive but understandable. What I don’t understand are the following:

DVR Service Fee…………………………$5.98/month
External Hard Drive Activation…$39.99/one time
Programming Access Fee………….$5.00/month

What value/service is Dish providing for these fees?

Also, my statement says that an equipment rental fee of $7.00 is included in my programming package. Why am I paying a rental fee for equipment I own?

All I get from the Dish CSR is gobbledygook read off a card. Any ideas?
DVR fee as has been explained is a fee that alows you to use the DVR function of your receiver.
$5 access fee is for the second tuner on your dual tuner DVR if it isn't connected to a land base phone line there is a $5 fee applied to duplicate programming on a second tuner. The $7 lease fee is because you don't own the equipment DISH does.:) I suspect an American CSR could explain it because they are all standard fees but you might have had trouble understanding the overseas call center.

[RayGambo]

%%%DVR fee as has been explained is a fee that alows you to use the DVR function of your receiver.

What does Dish have to do with it? It is like them charging me $5 to use the volume control on my TV.

%%%$5 access fee is for the second tuner on your dual tuner DVR if it isn't connected to a land base phone line there is a $5 fee applied to duplicate programming on a second tuner.

I don't get it. What does a phone line have to do with it? I have a dual tuner but it sounds like if I run a telephone line to it, they don't care about "duplicate programming."

%%%The $7 lease fee is because you don't own the equipment DISH does.

I'm pretty sure since the satellite store charged my American Express nearly $600 for a 722 receiver and 1000.4 dish that I own the hardware. If not, then I am really confused.

%%%I suspect an American CSR could explain it because they are all standard fees but you might have had trouble understanding the overseas call center.

I spoke to a nice lady in Texas, which is still part of the U.S. I think. She spoke accented but clear and standard English. She obviously was reading a script and could not answer any question outside the the canned speech. Or maybe I am really dense cause I still don't understand even after your explanation.

I look at it this way: I am getting programming from Dishnet. I pay them (a lot) for the programming. I'll even give them the $7 "lease fee" since it's bundled with the programming. But how they can charge me to use my equipment (DVR) or tell me what I must do with my telephone line is totally beyond my ken. It's like Duncan Hines charging me to turn on my oven or telling me how much electricity I may use because I am baking a cake from one of their mixes.

I think I may go back to cable. It was overpriced and didn't have all the programming I wanted but at least they left me alone.:confused:

[garys]

A lot of the cable co's don't list their fees, they are charging them but are not telling you what they are. If you want to not be told, then don't look at the bill.

[RayGambo]

A lot of the cable co's don't list their fees, they are charging them but are not telling you what they are. If you want to not be told, then don't look at the bill.

I'm not sure how this comment relates to the question but I can say that I knew every fee that cable charged because it was right on the bill and added up correctly. Maybe you mean something else?

[jclewter79]

Wonder how much your local cable company charges for their DVR fees?

[BattleZone]

All providers charge a DVR service. DVRs cost a lot more to support, for a variety of reasons, than standard receivers, plus like anything else, it's an additional revenue source.

The external hard drive fee would have been charged at your request, to allow you to use an external USB hard drive on your account. It's a one-time fee per account, and again, part is to pay for the extra support it requires, and part an additional source of revenue.

The "programming access fee" is just a re-worded way of saying "mirror fee". If you had individual receivers on each TV, you would pay $5/month per receiver beyond the first one to have the programming mirrored to that receiver. When Dish released their dual-output receivers, they gave customers the oppertunity to eliminate the $5 fee for the second TV on each dual-output receiver IF the customer hooked the receiver up to the phone line (or, for ViP-series receivers, to the Internet via Ethernet). If it isn't hooked up, you get charged as if you had two individual receivers.

It sounds like you signed up through a retailer; it was the retailer's duty to explain all of these fees to you up-front, just like if you bought a TiVo at Best Buy and they didn't tell you that you'd need a subscription beyond the purchase price in order for it to work.

[puckwithahalo]

DVR Service Fee…………………………$5.98/month

The name for this one is pretty much self-explainatory. Pretty much every provider charges a fee for DVR fee, whether you own the equipment or not, and in most cases the fee is higher than $5.98.

External Hard Drive Activation…$39.99/one time

As was said earlier, one-time activation fee for the external hard drive capability.

Programming Access Fee………….$5.00/month

I don't get it. What does a phone line have to do with it? I have a dual tuner but it sounds like if I run a telephone line to it, they don't care about "duplicate programming."

The phone line doesn't really have anything to do with it other than if you keep it connected, you do not get charged this charge. You can also connect a high speed internet connection in place of the phone line and get this charge waived with the receiver that you have. Waiving that charge is simply an incentive to get people to connect the receiver to the phone line or internet connection. That's the only correllation between the two things. The main reasons for the incentive are that the location of receivers can be kept track of more easily to make sure they are where they are suppossed to be, and it opens up features like the ability to order PPV's through the remote rather than calling in, which makes them more likely to do so. Do note, as far as I know, Dish Network is the only provider that gives you the ability to waive the additional outlet charge for a tv connected to digital service.

Also, my statement says that an equipment rental fee of $7.00 is included in my programming package. Why am I paying a rental fee for equipment I own?

Its just saying that the outlet charge for the first receiver on the account is included in the programming charges. You're not actually being charged $7.00.

[saiyan]

I'm not sure how this comment relates to the question but I can say that I knew every fee that cable charged because it was right on the bill and added up correctly. Maybe you mean something else?

May be he meant that some providers already include fees such as "DVR Service" or "Local TV programming" in whatever programming packages they offered without disclosing or itemize them on monthly bills. All subscribers would pay the same monthly fees regardless of whether they have DVR service or subscription to local TV programming. And of course fees will add up correctly on your monthly bill but have you ever wonder what that $50 per month you paid for a cable/satellite programming package actually contains? May be its $45 for programming and $5 for DVR service? Or maybe its $30 for programming $5 for DVR service and $15 pure profit to the provider?

[FTA Michael]

have you ever wonder what that $50 per month you paid for a cable/satellite programming package actually contains? May be its $45 for programming and $5 for DVR service? Or maybe its $30 for programming $5 for DVR service and $15 pure profit to the provider?That's a deep question. A huge part of every multichannel provider's expenses is infrastructure. For cable systems, how much did it cost to wire (and rewire) the neighborhood, or upgrade the neighborhood servers? For satellite companies, how much does it cost to launch and maintain a fleet of satellites?

Take those infrastructure expenses and divide them by the number of affected subscribers. Do you do it as a percentage, so high-dollar subs pay more of the expense? Or do you apply the same amount to every bill?

Then there are subsidies for installations, and subsidies for receivers and other equipment. And figure a certain amount of customer service time for each subscriber.

And you mentioned programming expenses. The amounts vary, but I doubt that your $50 TV bill includes anything close to $30 in programming expense. And I'm fairly certain that a typical $100 monthly TV bill includes much less than $50 in programming expenses.

To sum it up, it's difficult to measure the exact amount of expense for any given subscriber. For public companies, you can read their total revenues and profit, then apply that percentage to your bill, if you really care how much of your bill is "pure profit." Personally, I care only about whether my programming purchases are worth their price, no matter who gets a piece of it.

[harsh]

What does Dish have to do with it? It is like them charging me $5 to use the volume control on my TV.DISH doesn't have much to do with it. It is consistent with many CATV companies who charge extra fees for DVRs versus non-DVRs. I consider it a subsidy for the cost of a DVR that you've chosen to forfeit by buying the DVR outright.I don't get it. What does a phone line have to do with it? I have a dual tuner but it sounds like if I run a telephone line to it, they don't care about "duplicate programming."Because DISH satellite receivers feature sophisticated modulators and the ability to theoretically be used in places that aren't served by CATV and/or not allowed for in the user agreement, they want to insure that the receiver is located exclusively in your residence.I'm pretty sure since the satellite store charged my American Express nearly $600 for a 722 receiver and 1000.4 dish that I own the hardware. If not, then I am really confused.This is the pricing model employed by both DIRECTV and DISH Network. They have made substantial efforts towards making ownership unpalatable. For some largely inexplicable reason, a proud few still go out of their way to buy their own hardware.I think I may go back to cable. It was overpriced and didn't have all the programming I wanted but at least they left me alone.:confused:Because you apparently didn't read the fine print or do your due diligence, you probably don't know that there will likely be a $10/month early termination fee for the balance of your 24 month commitment. The ETF with DIRECTV is $20/month.

For perspective, there are many who pay more than double what you're currently being charged. There are more than a few paying upwards of $200/month before any PPV charges. I know of at least one DBS subscriber that pays just under $41/month just for hardware fees.

On the CATV side, if I had similar functionality to what I have with DBS, I'd be paying close to $45/month in equipment fees and I'm connected to only four televisions. Another $60 for programming, $11 for HD service and various and sundry taxes and I'd be around $115/month for basic cable with HD service (no movie channels or upper tier programming).

You have every right to be confused, but arguing that the information wasn't available prior to (or after) your purchase would be a very hard sell.

[phrelin]

And there is the complexity of cable companies' infrastructure cost being allocated between TV, internet service, and phone service where they offer all three. I've always wondered how they allocate between the three.

[RayGambo]

DISH doesn't have much to do with it. It is consistent with many CATV companies who charge extra fees for DVRs versus non-DVRs. I consider it a subsidy for the cost of a DVR that you've chosen to forfeit by buying the DVR outright.

I should pay Dish because they have a DVR that they didn't give me?

Because DISH satellite receivers feature sophisticated modulators and the ability to theoretically be used in places that aren't served by CATV and/or not allowed for in the user agreement, they want to insure that the receiver is located exclusively in your residence.

Why would I pay $$ for a service that I am not using? I assume if I move anywhere in the U.S., they can still provide service - the details may differ but they still get their monthly programming money.

This is the pricing model employed by both DIRECTV and DISH Network.

Mama always said two wrongs don't make a right.

They have made substantial efforts towards making ownership unpalatable

No guesses why? A lease puts them on the hook whereas they have no responsibility to maintain my system.

For some largely inexplicable reason, a proud few still go out of their way to buy their own hardware.

Do you lease your car, your furniture, your refrigerator. If not, why not?

Because you apparently didn't read the fine print or do your due diligence, you probably don't know that there will likely be a $10/month early termination fee for the balance of your 24 month commitment. The ETF with DIRECTV is $20/month.

I don't think so. I have no commitment to Dish. I can say Hasta la vista today and not owe them anything beyond the service provided to date.


For perspective, there are many who pay more than double what you're currently being charged. There are more than a few paying upwards of $200/month before any PPV charges. I know of at least one DBS subscriber that pays just under $41/month just for hardware fees.

You beg the question.

On the CATV side, if I had similar functionality to what I have with DBS, I'd be paying close to $45/month in equipment fees and I'm connected to only four televisions. Another $60 for programming, $11 for HD service and various and sundry taxes and I'd be around $115/month for basic cable with HD service (no movie channels or upper tier programming).

I can't get everything I want via CATV. It is not the price per se but what I am getting (or not getting) for my money.

You have every right to be confused, but arguing that the information wasn't available prior to (or after) your purchase would be a very hard sell.

I have no doubt it was available and I will assume that Dish told me when I signed up for service. That doesn't make it legal or proper. Think about all the cases where backpay is awarded because of a bad act even though the employee accepted the salary as offered.

[FTA Michael]

About DVR fees in particular, the usual rationale is that DVRs require updated program guide information, and the process of compiling and distributing that guide information takes a bit of money, which has to come from somewhere. A DVR without program info is little better than a tapeless VCR.

Long, long ago, Charlie Ergen would boast that his DVRs required no additional fees, recognizing that their ability to reduce churn would pay for the engineering required. Some time later, he probably recognized that he was leaving money on the table, and he implemented DVR fees that were still "the lowest" (by a penny) in the industry. The old no-fee DVRs were grandfathered in. He doesn't talk much about DVR fees any more.

One could also argue that DVR fees help pay the patent royalties owed to the folks who thought up the idea, especially since Dish was ordered to pay $millions to TiVo. Some folks say TiVo didn't deserve it; some say that any good idea is obvious in retrospect. You can find much more on the TiVo topic if you search the threads here. DO NOT POST TiVo-related arguments in this thread!

As I suggested earlier, your total bill is $X. Is it worth it? Are there better alternatives? Only you can answer that question, but being unhappy about the way the bill is presented will only, well, leave you feeling unhappy. ;)

[puckwithahalo]

I have no doubt it was available and I will assume that Dish told me when I signed up for service. That doesn't make it legal or proper. Think about all the cases where backpay is awarded because of a bad act even though the employee accepted the salary as offered.

I'm not sure what you're thinking is illegal about it...as for proper...all the things you mentioned are pretty much standard for the industry...

by the way, if you want to get rid of the dvr fee, ask for Dish DVR Advantage and sign up for autopay and paperless billing. You can also get it by making a 24 month commitment, but judging on previous posts I'm guessing you wouldn't want to go that route. Hook the phone line or internet connection up and the $5.00 access fee is dropped. Voila, $10.98 off your bill.

The truth is, not liking the charges isn't going to change them, and you are going to run into the same charges with pretty much any provider. However, there are ways to get those charges waived. Take advantage of them.

[newsman]

Because DISH satellite receivers feature sophisticated modulators and the ability to theoretically be used in places that aren't served by CATV and/or not allowed for in the user agreement, they want to insure that the receiver is located exclusively in your residence.How will they know where my Vip receiver is located when I am connected to the Internet? I understand the IP address of my provider would be sent, but that still doesn't determine exactly where I am. As for the phone service, someone could easily use a service address with a different phone number. They want to make sure the receiver is dialing in from the proper phone number.

[DustoMan]

RayGambo:

You need to tell us exactly what you payed upfront for your recievers and which models did you get. That will help us in making sure you are being charged right and also help us explain the monthly fees.

[puckwithahalo]

How will they know where my Vip receiver is located when I am connected to the Internet? I understand the IP address of my provider would be sent, but that still doesn't determine exactly where I am. As for the phone service, someone could easily use a service address with a different phone number. They want to make sure the receiver is dialing in from the proper phone number.

A phone number can be traced just like an ip address can be. It's fairly easy to find out what address a phone number is installed at. Also, even if they couldn't trace the location by the phone number, if all receivers on the account are calling from the same number, you know they are in the same location, which is another concern.

[RayGambo]

Mr. Dusto,

I have a 722 receiver and 1000.4 - total price about $600. However, I fail to see what this has to do with the fees. Whether I paid $1,000,000 for the equipment or got it as a birthday present is none of Dish's business.

I didn't mean to start a forest fire, I was only looking for a simple answer. I understand what the fees are called and the reason Dish gives for assessing them. I just don't accept the rationale. Would any of you accept Dish's demand of $39.99 to "activate" the HDMI port so you could plug in your 52" HD monster?

Mr. puckwithahalo,

I don't know that Dish did anything illegal, it certainly is slimy to charge a lease fee for equipment the customer owns. To analogize again, what if RCA/Sony/Samsung wanted $5/month from you to use the TV you bought at Best Buy. If they want a phone line, ok I will run a phone line to save the fee. I may consider your other suggestions and I thank you for them.

Mr. FTA Michael,

I am not upset with the manner in which the charges are listed. I just think that they are absurd. Dish is not doing anything of value to receive those fees. It is like a mail order company adding S&H that bears no relationship to the cost of such services (which is why they added "Handling" - they would be caught inflating shipping costs). Whether or not DirecTV, cable companies or the local hardware store engage in similar practices is not the issue. I am constantly evaluating the value for money equation and other factors and may drop Dish. Or not. But it was nice to get so much input on the issue.


RayGambo:

You need to tell us exactly what you payed upfront for your recievers and which models did you get. That will help us in making sure you are being charged right and also help us explain the monthly fees.
__________________
Dusto
dustoman at gmail dot com

Echostar customer since longer then I can remember.
VIP722 on Panasonic HDTV
VIP222 on Vista Ultimate PC

[ivtech]

By the way what's your programing for 70bucks?

[BobaBird]

The EKB has a chart of Dish fees at http://www.dishuser.org/fees.php .

[harsh]

I should pay Dish because they have a DVR that they didn't give me?That's how the current pricing model works.Why would I pay $$ for a service that I am not using? I assume if I move anywhere in the U.S., they can still provide service - the details may differ but they still get their monthly programming money.The idea is that you agreed that you would not relocate your receiver and if you do, they have the tools to tip them off and allow them to pursue the issue.Mama always said two wrongs don't make a right.I won't try to explain industry standards but I will point out that they exist and one way or another, everyone in the industry eventually toes the line.No guesses why? A lease puts them on the hook whereas they have no responsibility to maintain my system.The DBS providers like the lease option because it gives them control over the devices that you use. The way that technology is moving, they don't want a large number of their subscribers screaming bloody murder about obsoleting their $1,000 receiver just months after they sold it to them. Now they change the pricing model, charge a lease entry fee and they can change technology on their terms, not those of the customers.Do you lease your car, your furniture, your refrigerator. If not, why not?I considered it, but none of these things seems likely to be substantially outdated by the onward march of technology. I might consider leasing a computer, television or an AV receiver.I don't think so. I have no commitment to Dish. I can say Hasta la vista today and not owe them anything beyond the service provided to date.It would be an extraordinary situation if you weren't under commitment.I have no doubt it was available and I will assume that Dish told me when I signed up for service. That doesn't make it legal or proper. Think about all the cases where backpay is awarded because of a bad act even though the employee accepted the salary as offered.The terms are clear and if you don't like them, you don't enter into the contract expecting that they will be waived because you didn't do your homework or that you have a fundamental philosophical difference that exempts you from your responsibility.

[Stewart Vernon]

I'm surprised no one else has said this yet, but I'm beginning to smell troll.

Most of the fees in question here (especially the EHD activation one) are ones that would either explicitly have to be asked/agreed to by the original poster (ex. the EHD activation) or described during the time when he ordered/installed/signed up for service.

Discussing the merits of "what do I get for fee XXX" has been done to death in this forum, and while some of us find value and others don't the simple fact of the circular arguments ends with "TV is a luxury, it is either worth what you pay or it isn't. If it is, then yay! If not, then try another service. If there are no other services, then accept it or do without".

When questions are asked and answered and the follow-up is along the lines of "yeah, but so what" then the only answer left is to take it up with Dish and if you and Dish don't agree on terms then part ways.

I'm not sure what else can be said really.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but this seems to be a circular thread as I read over it.

[JackDobiash]

I would like to chime in here and say that based on the posts of the OP, he might not understand the "External Hard Drive Activation" fee is still. That fee is for being able to hook up a USB External Hard Drive to your DVR and be able to transfer recordings to it for archiving purposes. This allows you to store more programs than you could with the space available on the internal drive in the unit. This charge would only be there if you explicitly asked for it. If you did not, then you can probably get it reversed.

As to the $5.98 DVR fee, that's charged by pretty much any company with a DVR device. While I have no idea of the actual reason, it might be a way to offset the potential Advertising losses by the Content providers (which in turn increase their costs to Dish) that might occur since people would be skipping the commericals all of the time. Again, just my way of 'justifiying' it in my mind.


Oh, and the "Rental Fee' it says is included there if you lease or buy. They basically just change the terminology for each one. If you buy the receiver, it's an "Additional Receiver Access Fee", if you lease, it's a "Leased Receiver Fee". They don't charge you for your first receiver, only the ones after it. As someone pointed out earlier, it's a way to get people to stop buying their own equipment since it doesn't save you any money to do it. (BTW, I buy all of my own too so you're not alone :D).

[RayGambo]

It appears that some folks are getting grumpy so this will be my last post on the subject (unless someone has a specific question).
One more time - I now understand what (most) fees are purportedly for. I will stipulate that Dish made all appropriate disclosures.
Nonetheless, some fees are still illogical (like paying a rental fee for equipment you own) or inconsistent (requiring a fee or telephone
line for a dual tuner receiver - you can’t take one receiver out and give it to your neighbor) and most of the rest are not related to
any value added.

Here is the list of possible fees (not necessarily ones I have been charged) on my statement. I have noted/commented on points of
interest. It seems that the real answer is that these fees are a way for Dish to pad the profit line without directly increasing the
programming rates. My concern was that I wasn’t seeing anything in return. As many have said, I can take it or leave it. I have
learned much over the last few days and I thank everyone for the input.

Fees
Returned Payment Fee $10.00
Late Payment Fee $5.00
Reconnect Fee $25.00
Leased Receiver (Standard Definition & MPEG2) $5.00
Leased Receiver (High Definition) $7.00
Additional Receiver Access Fee $5.00
Additional Receiver Access Fee (HD) $7.00
HD Enabling Fee $5.00
Programming Access Fee $5.00
Monthly charge will be waived automatically when your dual tuner
receiver is continuously plugged into a phone or internet connection.

(So if your telephone line falls out or you have a service interruption of one second you must pay?)

Dish Network DVR Service Fee $5.98

(Just what is the service being provided?)

Change of Programming Service Fee
Regular Programming $5.00
Adult Programming $10.00
There is no fee to add programming
Service Access Fee $6.00
Credit/Debit Card Payment Agent Handling Fee $5.00
Check By Phone Fee $9.99

Taxes
A taxable equipment rental fee of $7/month (MPEG4 HD receivers) or
$5/month (standard definition and MPEG2 HD receivers) for the first
receiver activated is included in your promotional base programming
package price. The tax attributable to this fee has been included in the
Taxes section above.

(apparently another name for the leased receiver fee)


I would like to chime in here and say that based on the posts of the OP, he might not understand the "External Hard Drive Activation" fee is still. That fee is for being able to hook up a USB External Hard Drive to your DVR and be able to transfer recordings to it for archiving purposes. This allows you to store more programs than you could with the space available on the internal drive in the unit. This charge would only be there if you explicitly asked for it. If you did not, then you can probably get it reversed.

I could accomplish the same thing by copying the programs to any suitable storage device. I thought that this method might be a lot faster. It ain't.

As to the $5.98 DVR fee, that's charged by pretty much any company with a DVR device. While I have no idea of the actual reason, it might be a way to offset the potential Advertising losses by the Content providers (which in turn increase their costs to Dish) that might occur since people would be skipping the commericals all of the time. Again, just my way of 'justifiying' it in my mind.


Oh, and the "Rental Fee' it says is included there if you lease or buy. They basically just change the terminology for each one. If you buy the receiver, it's an "Additional Receiver Access Fee", if you lease, it's a "Leased Receiver Fee". They don't charge you for your first receiver, only the ones after it. As someone pointed out earlier, it's a way to get people to stop buying their own equipment since it doesn't save you any money to do it. (BTW, I buy all of my own too so you're not alone :D).

No, the Leased Receiver Fee (A K A Rental Fee) is a different thing that the Additional Receiver Fee.

[puckwithahalo]

So if your telephone line falls out or you have a service interruption of one second you must pay?

No, the system tests at random to see if the receiver is connected. It usually takes a couple months of missed tests before the fee stops getting waived.

No, the Leased Receiver Fee (A K A Rental Fee) is a different thing that the Additional Receiver Fee.

Yes, they are different. You get charged one if you lease equipment, and the other if you own equipment.

[exieramos]

....Nonetheless, some fees are still illogical (like paying a rental fee for equipment you own) or inconsistent (requiring a fee or telephone
line for a dual tuner receiver - you can’t take one receiver out and give it to your neighbor)....

I don's subscribe to DISH but Direct TV has similar fees as well. DirecTV doesn't have the fee for not connecting to a phone line but I believe you answered your phone line requirement question with the statement about "giving your neighbor a receiver". People CAN do this, and and if they do, they essentially steal the service. All you would need to do is set up one account and order let's say two receivers for that account. After it is installed, your Friend in the next State over buys a DISH 1000.4 off of ebay or some other retailer. You then send him one of the receivers you got. He knows an installer that he then can pay under the table to install and align the DISH he bought and the receiver you gave him and voila! He's got the same service and package you got. He can pay you half of the bill each month so now DISH is getting the revenue from one customer but the service is being used by 2 customers! Now try to scale that scenario with one household that got 5 receivers on their account and they gave 4 of them away! If DISH could not track where the receivers were through an Internet connection or phone line then they can lose a lot of revenue.

MODS Delete this post if it gives out TOO MUCH INFORMATION!

Hope that explains at least the phone line fee justification. :)

[RayGambo]

If you have two or more physically distinct receivers then it might make sense. It appears that Dish is only concerned with dual tuner receivers - 2 in the same box. Since you can't (I can't anyway) take out one of the tuners and give it to someone the fee is stupid - especially since it isn't enforced against a two receiver account. Dish knows what kind of receiver I have and charges me and additional $7 because I have two (logical) receivers. Fair enough. So why charge an additional $5 due to no phone line?

[Kent Taylor]

I'm surprised no one else has said this yet, but I'm beginning to smell troll.

Most of the fees in question here (especially the EHD activation one) are ones that would either explicitly have to be asked/agreed to by the original poster (ex. the EHD activation) or described during the time when he ordered/installed/signed up for service.

Discussing the merits of "what do I get for fee XXX" has been done to death in this forum, and while some of us find value and others don't the simple fact of the circular arguments ends with "TV is a luxury, it is either worth what you pay or it isn't. If it is, then yay! If not, then try another service. If there are no other services, then accept it or do without".

When questions are asked and answered and the follow-up is along the lines of "yeah, but so what" then the only answer left is to take it up with Dish and if you and Dish don't agree on terms then part ways.

I'm not sure what else can be said really.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but this seems to be a circular thread as I read over it.

Bingo on the troll thing.
Research can be a beautiful thing when done prior to making a decision.

[Kent Taylor]

If you have two or more physically distinct receivers then it might make sense. It appears that Dish is only concerned with dual tuner receivers - 2 in the same box. Since you can't (I can't anyway) take out one of the tuners and give it to someone the fee is stupid - especially since it isn't enforced against a two receiver account. Dish knows what kind of receiver I have and charges me and additional $7 because I have two (logical) receivers. Fair enough. So why charge an additional $5 due to no phone line?

The fee is for dual output receivers, not dual tuner receivers.

[Michael P]

The fee is for dual output receivers, not dual tuner receivers.

No, the fee is for dual tuner receivers that are not connected to a phone line or brioadband conection. They usually do not charge the fee until they detect that the receiver is not connected to phone or broadband and the "audit team" contacts you.


I had a "dual output" tuner for years that had no fee. The output was the same channel for all recievers so that is a moot point. The only way to watch 2 different channels at the same time is with a dual tuner (or 2 seperate receivers which would always incur an extra fee after the 1st reciever.

Programming Access Fee………….$5.00/month

If this is the only receiver and you see this fee it means you are not subscribed to one of the packages: AT-100, AT-200, AT-250, HD only, Family Pack,or one of the Latino packs. For example if all you got was the premium movie channels w/o at least AT-100 they charge this fee. This fee is a part of the above packages but is not a part of the Preiums only.

[Kent Taylor]

No, the fee is for dual tuner receivers that are not connected to a phone line or brioadband conection.

I don't think so. I don't believe that the ViP612, which is a dual tuner receiver, requires a phone connection or a broadband connection.

[phrelin]

How about it is for the second tuner that can be independently used from a second output thereby effectively making it a fully functional second receiver/DVR.

[frodob9]

Many companies charge fees - just because they can. It becomes an "industry standard" meaning that the competition does the same thing so the consumer has no choice but to accept it. Trying to understand the additional service received or the logic behind a fee will often lead to frustration, headache and the conclusion that the fee is charged "just because we can".

[Kent Taylor]

How about it is for the second tuner that can be independently used from a second output thereby effectively making it a fully functional second receiver/DVR.

Do you mean a dual tuner/dual output receiver? :)

[JackDobiash]

[Your response to my explination of the EHD Fee]

I could accomplish the same thing by copying the programs to any suitable storage device. I thought that this method might be a lot faster. It ain't.


Ok, I guess my question to you is:

Did you explictly ask for the ability to hook up an External USB Hard Drive to your DVR to be able to transfer recordings to it for archival and/or storage purposes? If you did not, then you DO NOT need that Fee and can probably get it reversed.

The ONLY way to *digitially* transfer recordings off of your Receiver is to pay for this fee. If you don't, you are stuck with whatever space is available on the internal drive.

- Oh, you could get a PocketDish too I suppose, but I don't know if the fee applies then, but you have to purchase their specific device.


I'm not trying to sound harsh or anything, I just wanted to make sure you weren't getting charged for something that you didn't ask for.

[E91]

As to the $5.98 DVR fee, that's charged by pretty much any company with a DVR device. While I have no idea of the actual reason, it might be a way to offset the potential Advertising losses by the Content providers (which in turn increase their costs to Dish) that might occur since people would be skipping the commericals all of the time. Again, just my way of 'justifiying' it in my mind.


).


Its charged by EVERY company with a DVR device. It offsets the cost of the data for the program guides. Dish is actually a relatively good deal for data, since TIVO charges about twice that.

DirecTV is somewhat better deal for DVR fees in that one fee covers the entire household.

[ImBack234]

DirecTV is somewhat better deal for DVR fees in that one fee covers the entire household.Being a beta tester it's nice they give you something.:rolleyes: :hurah: