Ground Dilemma

[Swagger]

Background:

My Slimline dish was mounted on the opposite side of my house from where my main electrical service ground is located. The original installer mounted the dish on the roof and ran the coax across the peak of my roof, down to the gutter, inside of the gutter, wired tied to the down spout, and then tacked it to my siding at eye level before penetrating into the house. The coax was never put through a ground block and the dish was never grounded.

Once the 4 coax cables penetrate the house into the basement, they are each split and then the 8 outputs fill two Zinwell WB68’s. From the MDF, I have 16 station cables running throughout the house.

The runs to the second floor of the house travel from the MDF through the ceiling of the basement to the other side of the house, and then snake their way up through the 1st and 2nd floor walls to the attic, where they are then dropped into each room.

The original coax from the dish is now hanging off the side of my roof and looks hideous. I ran 4 Belden quad shield rg-6 cable from the MDF following the same route as the upstairs cabling into the attic. I then stubbed the 4 new cables out of the chimney enclosure which is only inches from where the dish is mounted on the roof.

When the installer came to drop off 2 new HR22’s, I had him go onto the roof, connect the new cables and trash the original coax. The dish has never been grounded. The coax has never been grounded.

Questions:

Is it OK that the coax from the dish is running through the house to the MDF (through the walls and ceilings)?

Should I put a ground block in the attic for the coax just after the penetration into the chimney enclosure?

Can I run the ground for the dish through the house the same way the other cables are being run (through the walls and ceilings)?

How long of a run is “too long” for an effective ground? Any way you slice it, through the house or attached to the roof, gutter, etc., it’s about 150 ft.

At this point, is it better to leave the dish without a ground?

Thanks!

[Mertzen]

Is it OK that the coax from the dish is running through the house to the MDF (through the walls and ceilings)?
Not 100 % sure what the NEC would say about it.Personally I'd prefer outside for servicability.

Should I put a ground block in the attic for the coax just after the penetration into the chimney enclosure?
You can. Is there anything to ground to. Is there a ground wire coming from the dish? Either#17 attached to the coax or #10 on it's own?

Can I run the ground for the dish through the house the same way the other cables are being run (through the walls and ceilings)?
Not sure if running #10 though the house is a good idea.

How long of a run is “too long” for an effective ground? Any way you slice it, through the house or attached to the roof, gutter, etc., it’s about 150 ft. #17 attached to the coax is ok with that. #10 has a 25ft limit.
At this point, is it better to leave the dish without a ground?
Any ground is better then no ground.

[Swagger]

Not 100 % sure what the NEC would say about it.Personally I'd prefer outside for servicability.

I have several access panels and mule tape connecting them. If something ever went wrong with the cable, I could easily replace it.

You can. Is there anything to ground to. Is there a ground wire coming from the dish? Either#17 attached to the coax or #10 on it's own?

I have a central air disconnect (outside) about 50 ft from the dish and a cold water pipe (outside) at about 80 ft. Those are the closest (decent) grounds. The main electrical ground is about 150 ft away.


Not sure if running #10 though the house is a good idea.

I didn't think so either. It would take me 10 minutes to run it back to the main ground if I went through the house. Running it out side to the AC disconnect or the water facuet would be much more extensive and involve a big ladder.

#17 attached to the coax is ok with that. #10 has a 25ft limit.
The belden cable that I used doesn't have a built-in ground. How far is the limit for #6?

Thanks for your help!

[Mertzen]

The belden cable that I used doesn't have a built-in ground. How far is the limit for #6?


I don;t think the NEC specifies anything over the minimum required. But I doubt that for #6 it would be longer. It 'should' work but I can only advise you to what D* wants on an install.

[Swagger]

Thanks Mertzen.

If I go with the #6 ground cable, should I get solid or stranded?

If you were doing the install... would you:

a - run ground 50 ft to outside AC disconnect (through chimney enclosure)
b - run ground 80 ft to outside faucet (through chimney enclosure)
c - run 150 ft through walls and ceilings of house to main electrical ground
d - run 150 ft through attic to other side of house and then down j-channel to main electrical ground
e - watch tv as is and hope lightning hits neighbor's dish

Thanks again!

[Grentz]

There is no way I can do a decent ground on my dish, has not been grounded for 12 yrs and have had no issues at all.

Grounding is really not about lightning, its about static buildup on the dish/lines. If lightning hits your dish, even NEC standards wont help you with that thin little wire.

[BattleZone]

Grounding is really not about lightning, its about static buildup on the dish/lines. If lightning hits your dish, even NEC standards wont help you with that thin little wire.

Correct.

I'd bet that way over half of all satellite dish installs are completely ungrounded, and at least half of the remaining ones are improperly grounded. Yet you don't hear about houses burning down.

Static is the biggest enemy, and even though 150' of 10ga ground wire is far from ideal, it will be enough to drain the static buildup off the dish.

[sperho]

#17 attached to the coax is ok with that. #10 has a 25ft limit.

Other than "because NEC says so", I'd love to hear the basis of this statement... (Not picking on you Mertzen, I've seen it before, but I'm not sure I understand how the physics change...)

[asjamias]

Correct.

I'd bet that way over half of all satellite dish installs are completely ungrounded, and at least half of the remaining ones are improperly grounded. Yet you don't hear about houses burning down.

Static is the biggest enemy, and even though 150' of 10ga ground wire is far from ideal, it will be enough to drain the static buildup off the dish.


and other people here preach like you need to drive a ground rod and tie it up to the main ground kind of thing....

when lightning strikes, it will destroy anything in its path, period.

[David MacLeod]

its all money. some insurance policies will deny claims without grounding per nec.
lightning strike will blow everything, no ground you buy it. with ground you're usually covered.
this is policy dependent and not a blanket truth.

[Grentz]

Other than "because NEC says so", I'd love to hear the basis of this statement... (Not picking on you Mertzen, I've seen it before, but I'm not sure I understand how the physics change...)

Because of the resistance in the wire.

[sperho]

Because of the resistance in the wire.

So a higher resistance to ground is better than a lower resistance to ground? Not in my book...

[Swagger]

Thank you for all of your help!

Here's what I learned:

1 - Any ground is better than no ground.

2 - The ground ain't gonna do squat if the dish is hit by lightning... the ground is there to discharge static.

Questions:

Is it dangerous to run the ground through the house to the main electrical ground? I measured the run last night and it's closer to 100' than 150'. The path does travel through interior walls and ceilings.

Should I use solid or stranded copper?

Can I get away with #10 or is #6 the way to go for this type of run?

If going through the house is NOT preferable, should I run outdoor to the AC disconnect (short, easy run) or should I go to the outside faucet (40ft further and difficult run)?

Once again... thank you!

[veryoldschool]

Thank you for all of your help!

Here's what I learned:

1 - Any ground is better than no ground.

2 - The ground ain't gonna do squat if the dish is hit by lightning... the ground is there to discharge static.

Questions:

Is it dangerous to run the ground through the house to the main electrical ground? I measured the run last night and it's closer to 100' than 150'. The path does travel through interior walls and ceilings.

Should I use solid or stranded copper?

Can I get away with #10 or is #6 the way to go for this type of run?

If going through the house is NOT preferable, should I run outdoor to the AC disconnect (short, easy run) or should I go to the outside faucet (40ft further and difficult run)?

Once again... thank you!
This is where a lightning strike should be thought about [not that this ground will save anything].
Do you want the lightning to travel through your home, or should it "stay' [a relative term] on the outside.
A "bigger" ground is better than a smaller [wire] ground connection.

[BattleZone]

Personally, I'd use solid 10 ga wire to the AC disconnect, which should be grounded with heavy-gauge cable to the main panel or house ground. That will be fine for bleeding off static build-up, and enough to pass DirecTV QC. It might not be fully up to NEC code, but you'll never have any problems short of a lightening strike, and if that happens, you're screwed anyway.