Anyone with 7.1 Setup [Archive]

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 12:28 PM

Hey Guys,
I currently have a 5.1 setup and am going to upgrade my A/V Receiver and add 2 side surrounds (my current 5.1 surrounds are really rear surrounds - it's the way it was pre-wired) so I can support TrueHD and dts-Master from BRD.

Can those of you with 7.1 setups chime in with comments on its performance and whether you're happy you have such a setup?

Thanks

VeniceDre

10-29-08, 12:34 PM

Hey Brother, go with a Denon A/V Receiver... I personally own 2 of the AVR-3808, and install a lot of them.

I think 1909 series now has DTS HD MASTER and Dolby True HD Decoding and is only like $650.00 retail.

I've never had a Denon go bust in the last 4 years

Brandon428

10-29-08, 12:38 PM

I love my 7.1 setup. Its worth the upgrade to me. It gives you a much more immersion with the 2 extra channels. I don't know what your preferences are but might I suggest this receiver http://www.crutchfield.com/S-FjaDYBfdTy0/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=1584300ESB&omnews=6694910 and if you are getting new speakers Klipsch if your on a budget but if money is no object Definitive Technology. The Sony receiver is on sale for almost half price right now!

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 12:38 PM

Thanks man. How bout the 7.1 setup itself?

In other words, I've always been pretty happy with the setup and sound quality of my 5.1, which is 2 main, center, sub, and 2 rear (the rear was pre-wired that way so no sides).

Without an A/V supporting T-HD and dts-M, I can get stuck having to go back to PCM on BRDs (you may remember this from before ;) )

So my question is, by adding 2 sides and going to full 7.1, how does that compare as an experience to 5.1 in your opinions?

Brandon428

10-29-08, 12:42 PM

I love it when I watch Pirates 3 on Blu-ray the 2 extra channels really do a great job. 7.1 in my opinion its worth it.

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 12:59 PM

Cmnore

10-29-08, 02:03 PM

What size is the room your theater is in? I have yet to find a reason for me to even go 6.1, let alone 7.1. My theater(LR) isn't really long enough for me to hear any 'gap' in the room's center, which is the only reason I would ever add ambient fill(7.1). TETO.

VeniceDre

10-29-08, 03:24 PM

Thanks Brandon. The link to that Sony is priced well, but as I'm not really in the market for receivers at that level, I'm thinking about maybe just getting the DG820 at about $329.

Looks like the one you linked as the next levels of DTS, plus the Dolbys, THXs etc.

Is there any expectation we can make that at least for the near future consumer market, TrueHD and dts-M will be standard on BRDs? They seem to be the 2 I see the most often on BRDs.

Yep Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master is key, you can buy a Blu-ray player that decodes it internally with analog ouputs (EXT IN on your receiver) but it's always better to have the receiver do it for you in my opinion. Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master, and PCM 7.1 is where it's at.

I wouldn't buy a A/V receiver without the decoding now, you'd only be upgrading again later.

Grentz

10-29-08, 04:09 PM

I am partial to Yamaha receivers myself (higher end ones).

Onkyo, Denon, and Harmon-Kardon you cannot really go wrong with though either.

Just becareful about some of the lower end receivers, many times they are just receivers from HTIB systems and are really quite cheaply made. You can find good deals on high end receivers many times in the clearance and refurb areas on manufactures sites though, Yamaha has a great clearance/refurb area.

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 04:26 PM

The room is 26 x 16 and I sit parallel with the 16, so "shortside". 50" DLP is 10 ft away as are 2 mains, center, and sub. 2 rears are behind and above about 5 ft. The added sides would be mounted about 5-6 ft away at ear level (seated)

What size is the room your theater is in? I have yet to find a reason for me to even go 6.1, let alone 7.1. My theater(LR) isn't really long enough for me to hear any 'gap' in the room's center, which is the only reason I would ever add ambient fill(7.1). TETO.

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 04:27 PM

Thanks Dre. The cheaper Sony does have those decoders in it, and I have a PS3 with no plans to change BRD players for now.

Yep Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master is key, you can buy a Blu-ray player that decodes it internally with analog ouputs (EXT IN on your receiver) but it's always better to have the receiver do it for you in my opinion. Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master, and PCM 7.1 is where it's at.

I wouldn't buy a A/V receiver without the decoding now, you'd only be upgrading again later.

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 04:30 PM

OK thanks grentz. IN the case of this Sony, it looks like there are 2 models below it in the line, which are basically still 5.1s, so I would think they'd be in the HTIB setups. Hopefully I'd be paying just enough to move above that level. This 820 also has 4 HDMI so not too bad. My TV is 1080p but has no 1080p/24 so not worried about needing any cross/upconversions within the receiver.

I am partial to Yamaha receivers myself (higher end ones).

Onkyo, Denon, and Harmon-Kardon you cannot really go wrong with though either.

Just becareful about some of the lower end receivers, many times they are just receivers from HTIB systems and are really quite cheaply made. You can find good deals on high end receivers many times in the clearance and refurb areas on manufactures sites though, Yamaha has a great clearance/refurb area.

Cmnore

10-29-08, 04:39 PM

I've been a SONY-phile for years, but I'm a realist as well. DOn't buy a SONY if it's not an ES model. Pricier - yes, but worth the $$$ IMHO. I have one from '03 and I won't be upgrading it anytime soon. It's a 51 pound TANK. Yes - it is pre-HDMI, but I bought the receiver for audio reasons. It has two 5.1 analog inputs and 1 7.1, so should I buy myself a BD player it will need to have internal decoders(like the PS3 does). You could find an EXCELLENT NOS receiver with a similar setup for a serious discount if you didn't require HDMI switching on the receiver.

spartanstew

10-29-08, 05:01 PM

I've had 7.1 for 4 years now in my HT (and 5.1 in the living room) and would never even consider 5.1 for any real movie watching.

7.1 is much better.

BTW, your sides should be 2' above ear level (and your rears) and slightly behind the seating area, angled in.

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 05:05 PM

That's another option - go with one that has the decoders, but not the HDMI switching. The various combos of those 2 factors definitely reflect in the prices.

I've been a SONY-phile for years, but I'm a realist as well. DOn't buy a SONY if it's not an ES model. Pricier - yes, but worth the $$$ IMHO. I have one from '03 and I won't be upgrading it anytime soon. It's a 51 pound TANK. Yes - it is pre-HDMI, but I bought the receiver for audio reasons. It has two 5.1 analog inputs and 1 7.1, so should I buy myself a BD player it will need to have internal decoders(like the PS3 does). You could find an EXCELLENT NOS receiver with a similar setup for a serious discount if you didn't require HDMI switching on the receiver.

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 05:07 PM

thanks stew. the rears are in a very good spot then for 7.1 (slightly high but only 1 foot or so). I'll make sure to mount the sides 2' above seated ear level.

I've had 7.1 for 4 years now in my HT (and 5.1 in the living room) and would never even consider 5.1 for any real movie watching.

7.1 is much better.

BTW, your sides should be 2' above ear level (and your rears) and slightly behind the seating area, angled in.

spartanstew

10-29-08, 05:21 PM

BTW, your sides should be 2' above ear level (and your rears) and slightly behind the seating area, angled in.

Sorry, I just finished a post over at AVS regarding 5.1.

The sides do not need to be slightly behind in a 7.1 set up. They can be directly to the sides and facing each other.

spartanstew

10-29-08, 05:23 PM

thanks stew. the rears are in a very good spot then for 7.1 (slightly high but only 1 foot or so).

My sides are a bit too high (7'), so I just angled them down slightly (not right at the listening area, but about 1' above) and it works well for me.

Canis Lupus

10-29-08, 06:08 PM

Oh no prob. I actually read your post as referring to the rears being behind and angled, which my rears are.

The sides will go on the sides as you described :)

Sorry, I just finished a post over at AVS regarding 5.1.

The sides do not need to be slightly behind in a 7.1 set up. They can be directly to the sides and facing each other.

compac

10-29-08, 06:41 PM

Hey Im just starting to think about adding a sound system to an HD tv set up... Won't 5.1 be a leap a head of the TV's built in speakers

BTW, Do I really need to have a separate Rec'er/Amp or will a Speaker bar setup be able to give me basic 5.1

It it reasonable to keep the sound system to ~ $200?? (sarcastic)

spartanstew

10-29-08, 06:43 PM

Hey Im just starting to think about add a sound system to an HD tv set up... Won't 5.1 be a leap a head of the TV's built in speakers

Yes.

BTW, Do I really need to have a separate Rec'er/Amp or will a Speaker bar setup be able to give me basic 5.1

Yes. No.

It it reasonable to keep the sound system to ~ $200?? ?)

No.

Cholly

10-30-08, 11:33 AM

The room is 26 x 16 and I sit parallel with the 16, so "shortside". 50" DLP is 10 ft away as are 2 mains, center, and sub. 2 rears are behind and above about 5 ft. The added sides would be mounted about 5-6 ft away at ear level (seated)
Here's my two cents worth :grin: :
Given your room layout, while 7.1 is desirable, 6.1 would give you a vast improvement over your existing 5.1 system.

I would advise you to upgrade to a new receiver first. I happen to be a Yamaha bigot, after owning several Onkyos, which are quite good as well. Do not buy a Home Theater in a Box. Definitely select a receiver that has Dolby Digital Plus,Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio decoding, and I would also suggest going the extra mile and getting a receiver with HDMI switching.
That being said, I'd suggest you look at the following: Yamaha RX-V663 ($549 list), Onkyo TX-SR606 ($579 list) or TX-SR605 if you can find one, or the Denon AVR1909 ($650 list) or possibly the Sony STRDG920 ($600 list). Personally, I'd go for the Yamaha for overall quality, feature set and reliability.

When you feel like making an additional investment, upgrade your speakers. One mistake people make is to cobble up a collection of different brands of speakers. Not a very good idea, because of the difference in tonal quality. The one exception would be the subwoofer. As you can see by my signature, my speakers are all Paradigms. I don't have a good opinion of Bose (overpriced, hyped) or most speakers available in big box stores. Klipsch has, in my opinion, gone down in quality in order to get a larger customer base, so I'm not too fond of them.

Check the ratings in Stereophile and other A/V magazines (peruse the magazines at Barnes & Noble). Ignore for the most part the user ratings you see on the Best Buy and Circuit City web sites. User opinions over on AVSforum are a bit more reliable.

Cmnore

10-30-08, 01:26 PM

Given your room layout, while 7.1 is desirable, 6.1 would give you a vast improvement over your existing 5.1 system.

Cholly,
I would agree with you here, although would you truly say the improvement is 'vast'?

Cholly

10-30-08, 01:50 PM

Cholly,
I would agree with you here, although would you truly say the improvement is 'vast'?

Perhaps my wording is a bit strong there. :D "Definite" might be better.
At any rate, I think one very important ingredient of a home theater system is the selection of speakers. IMHO, they should ideally be of the same "family" of the same manufacturer in order to have a well balanced environment.

Probably the worst place to listen to an HT setup is a big box store. HT specialty stores do a far better job of samlpling their wares. My youngest son and I visited a dealer in Dallas this past May and they set up an appointment for us to listen to quite a variety of speaker combinations. He wound up as I did with Paradigms.

Cmnore

10-30-08, 01:56 PM

I agree with you about the speakers, too Charlie. Tonal 'balance' is extremely important - ESPECIALLY in the triple speaker sets that occur in the front AND rear of Home theater setups. When sounds pan from far(L/R) through the center channel it becomes quite noticeable if you have mismatched speakers. My setups since the mid 90's have all been Polk Audio.

Lord Vader

10-30-08, 09:09 PM

I have the Onkyo 875 and it's hands down the best A/V receiver I've ever owned. Fully 7.1 and it processes 1080p video natively, unlike others that upconvert 720p to 1080p. The AVS forums have a lot of info on this stuff.

dettxw

11-03-08, 02:32 PM

I'm getting ready, got the receiver and PS3 to play the Blu-ray disks (though the PS3 won't bitstream the new codecs, have to have it do the decoding and send PCM - still have HD-MA & True-HD that way but don't get to see it displayed on your receiver). Have to get in the attic and string wire.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-2808CI-Source-Receiver-Processing/dp/B000TW20A2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225744107&sr=8-1) has a great deal on last year's model 2808 Denon.

hdtvfan0001

11-04-08, 06:06 AM

I've had 7.1 THX certified audio in my Home Theater now for 3 years - very, very pleased iwth the performance.

For those DVD's authored with support for 7.1 surround..the audio is nothing shy of stunning.

For other sources in 5.1 or 6.1...still extremely impressive. If I had to do it over again, I would repeat my 7.1 installation.

Cmnore

11-04-08, 10:57 AM

Canis L,

Make any decisions yet? You're welcome to come by and listen to my setup if you like.

Cmnore

11-04-08, 12:58 PM

Stuart Sweet

11-05-08, 08:30 AM

Folks, it's a new day, let's start by discussing the topic politely and respectfully.

hdtvfan0001

11-05-08, 08:34 AM

Thank you HDTVFAN. I appreciate your thoughtful opinions

:D
No problem.

If you look at the 175+ 7.1 audio DVD offerings, and also the trend towards 7.1 in both equipment (such as Blu Ray) and content provider outputs.....there are plenty of things out there to enjoy 7.1 and also as well still in 5.1 or 6.1.

sorahl

02-22-09, 10:22 PM

I have two Onkyo 7.1 setups. One really well set up in my basement theater and sound absolutely awesome.

BillP2R

02-22-09, 10:32 PM

I'm quite happy with 7.1, even for listening to music. (I'm used to hearing live music from within the band and my 7.1 setup brings me much the same perspective to recorded music.)

With respect to HDMI capabilities, you should look to get a receiver with HDMI repeater capabilities, not just HDMI pass through switching. This way, the receiver can access the audio data stream for direct processing. (It can also do transcoding of other inputs and feed them out on HDMI to the TV.)

If you just have pass through HDMI switching, you still have to link the audio back from the TV to the receiver for surround sound and run non HDMI receiver inputs to the TV with additional cables.

--------------------------- Bill

smiddy

02-22-09, 11:58 PM

I have an AVR-5805 which can to 10.3, but I'm only wired for 10.2, and only have speakers for 7.1. My other reciever is AVR-3806 which is setup for 7.1. Both are older than the current generation, but accept multichannel PCM and have analog inputs. I love my setup...

Mr. Vega

03-01-09, 03:40 PM

if upgrading from 5.1 to 7.1, and from 4 satellites to 4 satellites + pillars respectively, is there an industry standard for placement of the pillars.... Fronts or Sides?

spartanstew

03-01-09, 09:33 PM

Mr. Vega

03-02-09, 07:52 AM

I have no idea what a pillar is, other than architecturally. Do you mean floor standing speakers? If so, floor standing speakers would be the front left and right and the 4 satellite speakers would be your sides and rears.
If adding 2 more speakers to a 5.1 setup, you want to try and match the sonic signature of your existing speakers (i.e. buy the same brand and style if you can).

your guess was correct, pillar = floor standing speaker. i've also heard them called column speakers. could be colloquial... dunno.

anyway, just as you said typically the "pillars" are in the front. i'm assuming this is for aesthetics and when listening to music the receiver goes into Direct Mode transferring a 2 channel signal to the fronts.

if all things being equal between mids and highs of sats and pillars (i know you'd want the better speakers in front), why couldnt you put the pillars on the sides. i think this scenario would look better in my wider than average living room, and since i dont actually "sit" and listen to music, it may sound better as well.

the only question is can some of the higher end receivers be setup to output Direct to differenct locations. i know my Onkyo def. does not.

spartanstew

03-02-09, 09:46 AM

It's not just aesthetics. Floor standing speakers generally have bigger drivers and are more capable of producing bass. If you're using a subwoofer with a roll-off of 80hz (for example), a floor standing speaker will generally handle the bass above 80, much better than a surround speaker. In a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, the 2 front speakers (and center) are receiving 80% - 90% of the soundtrack. The sides and rears are only receiving supplemental information and rarely any bass at all. That's why you want your better speakers up front, not to mention the fact that 2 channel will be directed there as you mentioned.

Of course, this all assumes that the towers that you're adding are good ones (better than the bookshelves). If you don't want to use the towers up front, you might as well get 2 more bookshelves and save some money.

Mr. Vega

03-03-09, 01:22 PM

good post, good info.

my roll-off / crossover is set at 80hz (i believe this is factory default). this got me wondering, what is the frequency range for bass. what i found was 20hz-160hz.

i honestly did not know that. i assumed all bass was being passed to my sub. but as you stated there is an upper range that my satellites are handling.

i am using polk RM2300 sats / RM2600 center with PSW350 sub. i bought these about 9-10 years ago and could not be happier. i am considering polk RTi-A7s for my floors. obviously i'll rotate out 2 2300s until i go 7.1, but that may be a year. i just hope Polks quality is as good today as it was back then. i'll want to give them a "test drive" before i pull the trigger.

mluntz

03-30-09, 11:58 AM

Cholly

03-30-09, 06:41 PM

I would love to do 7.1 but my problem is my couch sits up against the wall, and I would have to mount the back surrounds on the wall angled down. Probably not the best way to go, not to mention the WAF also!

Since the back surrounds provide ambiance for effects, wall mounted would be fine -- typically 2 to 3 feet above listener's head level. You definitely would not want to have them pointing straight down. I have two 6.1 systems, and in both cases, the seating is against the wall. The rear surround in both cases is 4 to 5 feet above head level. Not really desirable, but I had no choice. The speakers are angled down about 45 degrees below the horizontal.

spartanstew

03-30-09, 09:33 PM

Since the back surrounds provide ambiance for effects, wall mounted would be fine --

I don't think his issue was the wall mounting. It was the fact that his seating is up against the rear wall and the recommendation when using 7.1 is to have the rears 4' - 5' behind you.

That being said, everyone has to make compromises.

lflorack

03-31-09, 07:46 AM

I don't think his issue was the wall mounting. It was the fact that his seating is up against the rear wall and the recommendation when using 7.1 is to have the rears 4' - 5' behind you.

That being said, everyone has to make compromises.

I agree completely that most of us have to make compromises. In my case, I had to make a number of them due to the shape and configuration of my room. Take a look at the diagram below:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/2977615503_ee55b9420e_o.jpg

The above 20'x20' room has a LOT of glass on the three exposed walls, making wall mounting of the surround speakers difficult -- if not impossible. The open doorway near the TV makes centering the TV impossible. The placement of the couch at the rear makes it a bit too close to the rear surrounds. Although I could fix this by moving the couch forward a bit more, I haven't done it yet to keep peace in the family ;)

Even with all of those compromises, the sound is pretty good. The auto-calibration program (YPAO) in my Yamaha RX-V663 seems to smooth out the issues fairly well.

Cholly

03-31-09, 12:36 PM

I don't think his issue was the wall mounting. It was the fact that his seating is up against the rear wall and the recommendation when using 7.1 is to have the rears 4' - 5' behind you.

That being said, everyone has to make compromises.

I understood that. I have a similar situation to the OP, and have to deal with the rears and surround not being more that 2 feet behind the listener. Further, because of a passthru to the kitchen, the speakers are about 8 feet above floor level. Certainly not a good situation, but we make the best of it. :eek2::(

hdtvfan0001

04-01-09, 04:41 PM

In my case, I have stadium seating and my back row is "elevated" higher than my front row of seating. My rear speakers on my 7.1 setup are above and slightly behind the rear seating.

My Onkyo v989 receiver allows me to perfectly balance all the speakers. I actually had it done originally with a pro using a sound meter. Harmonics in the room were virtually eliminated.