Birdog and Acutrac III for Ka

[Grentz]

I am potentially looking at picking up a satellite meter to use. I have done fine with using the receivers, but might be doing an install for a friends major project and it would be nice to have a meter.

In any event, my question is are the Birdog and Acutrac III units the only ones that do the Directv Ka birds (99/103)? I would prefer one that can do the Ka birds in addition to the Ku, so no acutrac22 for example.

Also, I noticed the acutracIII just has a scale that is not really out of 100, does the birdog have a scale out of 100 for peaking the signals according to what the receivers see as peaked?

I guess I am trying to justify the birdog over the acutrac III, or is it really not worth it for a meter that will be doing occasional installs and peaking, directv only, not as an all the time thing.

Also, do the earlier birdog versions support Ka and/or SWM setups?

Any input would be most helpful, I have done some searching and not come up with much really.

[RobertE]

The birdog does not have profiles for the 99/103 ka birds. Hard to say if it ever will.

They do have profiles for use with a SWM LNB though.

[BattleZone]

Many of my guys have older Birdog 2.5s (current version is 4), and they will do SWMs. No Birdog will do Ka-band, because the tuner in the Birdog doesn't do high band. Still, the dithering method, peaking using Ku, works just fine with a Birdog, and that's how most installers get the job done.

The most important thing about the Birdog is that it will ID the sat you are pointed at. Accutracs don't; you can be pointing at the wrong bird and as long as it has signal, you'll get a reading. With the Birdog, you are SURE everytime.

A combo of both would perhaps be best if you were a full-time DirecTV guy, but most techs don't get paid enough to buy $6-700 worth of meters.

[Grentz]

My mistake, thought the birdog could do the Ka sats.

So the acutrac III is the only Ka meter for this purpose?

[BattleZone]

AFAIK, only the Accutrak III and the SuperBuddy can read Ka signals directly. Superbuddy can also ID satellites. It is VERY expensive, though.

[Mertzen]

I use Birdog 2.5 and accutracII Pro Mk2. BD to ID sats an verify LOS and AT to fine tune. That combo is cheaper then a superbuddy.

[Grentz]

so it sounds like for fine tuning and peaking the acutrac III would be the best?

Mertzen, neither of those do Ka sats correct? So you just dither/fine tune Ku sats?

[dave29]

i have the acutrac III and it works very well with the ka/ku dish. it is also somewhat affordable

[jhillestad]

I have an accutrac III and use it to peak the 99 and 103. I use my older birdog to get to the 101 since the accutrac will not confirm the 101 , it sees 101 but will not confirm if thats the sat your really looking at. So I rotate the dish until 101 chirps in on the birdog .. if you use the accutrac you should turn on the receiver to be sure you have found the 101 and not some other sat. I wish accutrac would have somehow verify the actual sat your looking at.

I thought the new birdogs actually had a meter for ka , check their website...

[TigersFanJJ]

Either I'm in the minority or I've been lucky but I see absolutely no need to use a birdog or a receiver to double-check 101 before fine tuning. I would have the rare lock on the wrong sat before, but haven't had a single problem since the 99 went online a few months ago.

Here is how I aim a ka/ku dish using the Accutrac III:
1. Set the elevation and tilt per local settings.
2. Connect the meter and point the dish a little to the west of where the sats are.
3. Turn on the meter and rotate the dish back to the east.
4. When the meter shows a signal on the two bottom bars (101 and 99), I lock down the collar.
5. Push the satellite select button on the meter three times (to get to 18v/22khz) while making sure to have signal on both bottom bars on each setting.
6. Use the bottom bar (103) to peak the az/el while on the 18v/22khz setting.
7. Lock down all bolts.

[jhillestad]

I like to peak 101 first - its just funny to peak 101 and your really looking at some other sat..... hahaha , I learned the hard way the accutrac3 does not confirm the actual sat your looking at. But I still like the accutrac III better than the birdog because I can see the ka and dither to my hearts content....



Either I'm in the minority or I've been lucky but I see absolutely no need to use a birdog or a receiver to double-check 101 before fine tuning. I would have the rare lock on the wrong sat before, but haven't had a single problem since the 99 went online a few months ago.

Here is how I aim a ka/ku dish using the Accutrac III:
1. Set the elevation and tilt per local settings.
2. Connect the meter and point the dish a little to the west of where the sats are.
3. Turn on the meter and rotate the dish back to the east.
4. When the meter shows a signal on the two bottom bars (101 and 99), I lock down the collar.
5. Push the satellite select button on the meter three times (to get to 18v/22khz) while making sure to have signal on both bottom bars on each setting.
6. Use the bottom bar (103) to peak the az/el while on the 18v/22khz setting.
7. Lock down all bolts.

[Mertzen]

so it sounds like for fine tuning and peaking the acutrac III would be the best?

Mertzen, neither of those do Ka sats correct? So you just dither/fine tune Ku sats?

Nope, only Ku. The way I do it is rough peak with birdog and then fine peak with accutrac. I don't dither but rarely have to retune since the IRD give me 90+ for the Ka band almost all the time.

Did a ka/ku job last week without any meters at all. Only had to go to the roof twice after mounting it to tune in a bit more. Customer never noticed.

[TigersFanJJ]

I like to peak 101 first - its just funny to peak 101 and your really looking at some other sat..... hahaha , I learned the hard way the accutrac3 does not confirm the actual sat your looking at. But I still like the accutrac III better than the birdog because I can see the ka and dither to my hearts content....

It doesn't give the "signal locked" like a birdog but the method I described pretty much confirms you are on the right satellite.

As Mertzen said above, I don't use the dither method with the Accutrac. I just peak the Ka and the rest falls into place with mid to high 90s all around.

[bcltoys]

Hi, first time on this site what i want to know is what you all use to level the mast and just what is to be level.Looks to me that the top rim is to be level because how the little plastic piece of crap level they send you sits in the tube.Im i right or wrong.I do have the acutrac three.

[joe diamond]

Hi, first time on this site what i want to know is what you all use to level the mast and just what is to be level.Looks to me that the top rim is to be level because how the little plastic piece of crap level they send you sits in the tube.Im i right or wrong.I do have the acutrac three.

bci,

Those little plastic things are good to give to customer's kids. Let them check the floors while you work. You can put one in your tools but I find just a plastic clinometer works fine. Home Depot calls them angle finders; less than $5.00...use the square edges for drawing. Attach it to your compass and you can sight through it for estimating elevations.

Plumb the mast in two directions.........0 and 180 = plumb.

The top rim on the mast is machine cut to be square with the side (90 degrees) and can be used IF the little plastic crap is put in correctly.
But you will eventually find yourself needing one hand for climbing and not having enough light to see into the bubble.

Joe

[bcltoys]

Just have and d12-300 receiver right now.? is my acutrac three shows 66 on the meter for 101 and i get 95 to 100 on most transponders on my d12 my acutrac reads 60 to 62 on 99 and 103 do you think that will give me good numbers on a hd box when i get one. Slimline 3lnb is my dish.

[buck43]

Also, I noticed the acutracIII just has a scale that is not really out of 100, does the birdog have a scale out of 100 for peaking the signals according to what the receivers see as peaked?

.

I use the accutrac and never had a problem as long as you get mast plum (I use a magnetic post leveler) and all the settings right you shouldnt have any trouble hitting the right birds.

The accutrac has a setting in the menu that lowers the scale so you read in the 40's instead of 140's for peaking the KA/KU

[bcltoys]

The meter that your talking about is that the one i have if so where is this scale cant seem to figer that out.

[buck43]

The meter that your talking about is that the one i have if so where is this scale cant seem to figer that out.

Go into menu and select attn after the lines are hooked to the meter, it will then read on a lower scale

[bcltoys]

Thanks.

[TigersFanJJ]

Just have and d12-300 receiver right now.? is my acutrac three shows 66 on the meter for 101 and i get 95 to 100 on most transponders on my d12 my acutrac reads 60 to 62 on 99 and 103 do you think that will give me good numbers on a hd box when i get one. Slimline 3lnb is my dish.

Hard to say. The scale on your accutrac III may vary a little from the scale on mine. Also, different brand of LNBs will give you different readings. As long it is peaked with a plumb mast and your settings are correct, you should be ok.

[bcltoys]

Okay im going to bestbuys to get and h-21 receiver if it buy chance i do or can not get a good signal and i do not activate the receiver will bestbuy take it back.

[carl6]

Okay im going to bestbuys to get and h-21 receiver if it buy chance i do or can not get a good signal and i do not activate the receiver will bestbuy take it back.

I think as long as it has not been activated you can return it. I think, but I'm not certain.

Once you activate it, you absolutely cannot return it.

[bcltoys]

Dish pointer shows two 101 sats which one do you go to tv8 or tv9.

[bigbuck]

this my firs ime

[Johnnie5000]

No meter on the market will actually pick up the 99 & 103 and give you a real signal level.

I've tried all three of the big ones. I have a DTV issued Birddog 2.5, I own a SuperBuddy, and borrowed a Accutrak III for a few days. None of them actually do it. They do give a decibel level for where the satellites should be at, but not actually reading anything from it. Here's why:

1. All satellites have a ID code that is integrated into their broadcast data-stream mandated by some bullskrit government agency like NASA or the FCC (not sure which). In order to positively ID a satellite, the signal meters have a built-in list of codes provided to them by the satellite companies. (Notice where it says "Data Stream Identification" on the front's of Birdogs) For example, when you set it to look for the "DirecTV 101" it pulls up that specific code and doesn't say "Found" or "Lock" until you're aimed at a bird sending out that particular code. This is the main reason why Birdogs and SuperBuddy's kick so much ass: they identify the data stream.

Now what you have to realize is that DirecTV has not given the ID codes for the 99 and 103 to anyone other than those involved with software engineering on the receivers (which is the in-house engineering department in Colorado if I'm not mistaken). Receiver manufacturers don't even have the codes. Perfect Vision and Applied Instruments don't have them either.

Why? - No idea. Could be trying to prevent piracy, or hell maybe they're just paranoid.

2. Every satellite signal meter I've ever used, especially the birdogs and superbuddys operate at 950-1450mHz.
If you know the frequency ranges on the 99/103, then you already know this is a big problem. Supposedly on the superbuddy's, that can be changed. It does have an option for "Slimline/AT9 w/BBC", but I haven't noticed a difference with or without a b-band.

[bcltoys]

So what your saying is the true why to do it is with dtv receiver.

[peano]

No meter on the market will actually pick up the 99 & 103 and give you a real signal level.




Hmmm. I guess the meter readings on my Accutrac III were fake? I guess I was lucky to get mid 90s on 99 and 103 without dithering and the fact that the meter showed a peak signal on Ka when I locked it was just a coincidence.

[Johnnie5000]

Hmmm. I guess the meter readings on my Accutrac III were fake? I guess I was lucky to get mid 90s on 99 and 103 without dithering and the fact that the meter showed a peak signal on Ka when I locked it was just a coincidence.
Yeah pretty much.
There is no way for that meter to be 100% sure it is on the 99 & 103 due to the lack of given ID codes. Accutrac's do it exactly like Birdogs and Superbuddys - they guess. They guess at how the 99/103 signal should be picked up based off of readings on the LNB. If you were to take a perfectly alligned Slim3 LNB, put some black electrical tape (or something else that would block the signal) over where the business end of the 99 or 103 LNBs, and then hook up your meter - guess what? It's still going to show a signal on the covered LNB because it doesn't actually know whether or not its getting a signal.
Now I've never actually tried that with an accutrac but it's the same end result with a birdog and super buddy. If I'm wrong and Accutrac's are the end-all be-all of signal meters, then prove it.

[allsatnet]

Nope, only Ku. The way I do it is rough peak with birdog and then fine peak with accutrac. I don't dither but rarely have to retune since the IRD give me 90+ for the Ka band almost all the time.

Did a ka/ku job last week without any meters at all. Only had to go to the roof twice after mounting it to tune in a bit more. Customer never noticed.

i have been a sat tech since well my dad started me on the large dishes back in the early 80s well any how i dont under stand the real problem here see i just got a bird dog 2.50 at a yard sale for 1 dollar and i thought i always wanted it. Well like you i have on a couple occasions peeked with out a meter at all but mostly have used the crappy 10 dollar meters and i have never had a problem..... now that i have this birdog im trying to add other satellites and it starting to seem like more trouble than its worth never having had a problem its kinda my thought that if you set have ALL your settings correct and know how to read your compass seriously if you know how to do your job what is the big deal having the "bad ass Meter" and you are now the first person i have ever heard comment on peeking a dish "blind" as a matter a fact i have been called a lair in the past when saying i have any how i know NOTHING about this meter so i was wondering some things i believe you can tell me and i would tend to trust what you say. so what are my upgrade opps also i have seen something about the birdog being "bricked" by trying to upgrade the firmware with the wrong country i guess that some came direct from the uk wile there was another company that sold them here in the us so how do i make sure i have a uk meter i think i do it says manufactured in the uk but weren't they all ? do the ones that were sold by the us distributor say the same or do they say something different? i don't want to brick it i would like to use it for things like starband/spacenet and tv i guess except for the new direct tv stuff any how how do i verify what firm ware to up grade to and how do i add satellites into its listing? thank you man its nice to see more technicians that really know what there doing

[joe diamond]

Is not Directv coming along with an in house meter? Bet that one has the ID codes for the 99 & 103.

Joe

[Manctech]

accutrac III+ shows it. It may not "know" if it's the right birds but I promise you 100% that it's accurate. It shows when the 99 is being blocked by trees. The signal bar is lower. I promise you without a doubt it is reading the right birds and it is accurate. As others have posted, no dithering. Peak till the signal is as high as it goes and your screaming.

95+ on 99
95-99 on 103b/c

Best meter I've ever used bar none. The AIM meter is great but way too much for simple peaking.

[jimirb]

Just a couple of comments.

I use a SL3 in my RV. Depending on our travels, I might end up setting up the dish in a new location every day, so I get A LOT of practice with aiming, LOS, and portable (non level) sites.

For mast leveling, I use a magnetic fence post level that hangs on to the mast and measures 2 directions at the same time.

I use a good quality digital compass to determine AZ before I get the dish near it and use a wooden dowel on the ground as an approximate AZ guide to roughly point the dish.

I bought an Acutrac III for its Ka ability and eventually learned that dithering ALWAYS beats the trying to use the KA readings. I already had a Digisat III ('bout $60) and IMHO, the extra cost of the ACIII turned out not to be worth it. I now simply use it to dither the 101, which I could have done with the Digisat. I do like the fact that the AC III will power the SL3 LNB.

Unfortunately, space limitations in the RV require me to disassemble and reassemble most of the dish each time. That takes a bit of time, but once the dish is set up and ready to be leveled and aimed, the process takes about 10 minutes.

[allsatnet]

Just a couple of comments.

I use a SL3 in my RV. Depending on our travels, I might end up setting up the dish in a new location every day, so I get A LOT of practice with aiming, LOS, and portable (non level) sites.

For mast leveling, I use a magnetic fence post level that hangs on to the mast and measures 2 directions at the same time.

I use a good quality digital compass to determine AZ before I get the dish near it and use a wooden dowel on the ground as an approximate AZ guide to roughly point the dish.

I bought an Acutrac III for its Ka ability and eventually learned that dithering ALWAYS beats the trying to use the KA readings. I already had a Digisat III ('bout $60) and IMHO, the extra cost of the ACIII turned out not to be worth it. I now simply use it to dither the 101, which I could have done with the Digisat. I do like the fact that the AC III will power the SL3 LNB.

Unfortunately, space limitations in the RV require me to disassemble and reassemble most of the dish each time. That takes a bit of time, but once the dish is set up and ready to be leveled and aimed, the process takes about 10 minutes.

do you have a ladder on the back of your rv cause you can mount the dish on a 5/8 piece of ply and use 'horse shoe shackles" to hold the dish to the top of the ladder then its about an 8 to 10 min process every time cause you have to level your rv when ever you park~!