View Full Version : HD Locals spotbeam in the wrong area?
Got a question(actually a few)......
I've got a buddy of mine who lives here in Columbia MO who also has a house on the East Coast near Richmond Virginia where he spends quite a bit of time. He currently has DirecTV in Columbia and basic cable in Richmond, but would like to add a couple of DirecTV receivers to the house in Richmond under his Columbia account.
First question: Is this okay to do? I was under the impression that as long as the second house is yours and nobody else lives there (both are true) this is okay with DirecTV, since nobody else is benefiting from the service but the original account holder.
Second question: We recently (within the past month) got our locals in HD, and from one of the other posts on DBSTalk, I think I have determined that our local channels here in Columbia are on the 103(s) satellite, Transponder 2. If this is a spotbeam, I assume that means it is centered around our area? And, if so, is picking up this transponder 1000 miles away going to be possible (at an acceptable level)?
Third question: If it's NOT possible to pick up this transponder at an acceptable level, it also says on this guide that the SD locals are on the 101 satellite, Transponder #23. Always before, we were on the 72.5 satellite. Have they moved the locals from the 72.5 markets to the 101? If so, I am pretty sure I wouldn't have any problem dialing that transponder in for my friend, as SD locals are better than no locals.
I am planning on going with him to install the system in 3 weeks if everything is on the up and up and it's all possible, and any suggestions/info you could give me would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks so much!
veryoldschool
11-03-08, 10:41 AM
Your account has a "service address". While you may not be at both locations at the same time, you would really need to call DirecTV and change your service address each time you move to be "completely legal".
Spot beams for HD locals shouldn't be received 1,000 miles away. While you may see the same TP number, it should be for another market.
72.5 locals do seem to be moving to other SATs [101] as space becomes available do to the moving of other channels to other SATs.
As VOS noted, you would need to ask the question to DirecTV. My understanding is that the "spirit of the law" is that you are not benefitting from service at two locations at the same time - i.e., while at one of the 2 locations, no one would be at the other location at the same time watching DirecTV. However, the "letter of the law" is that any given account is for use at one, and only one, service address.
At a 1000 mile distance, you would not be able to receive SD or HD locals at the opposite location unless you changed the service address, then you would receive the proper locals for that location.
Carl
dishrich
11-03-08, 11:23 AM
Second question: We recently (within the past month) got our locals in HD, and from one of the other posts on DBSTalk, I think I have determined that our local channels here in Columbia are on the 103(s) satellite, Transponder 2. If this is a spotbeam, I assume that means it is centered around our area? And, if so, is picking up this transponder 1000 miles away going to be possible (at an acceptable level)?
It's a spotbeam & NO way will you get it that far - they're usually good for around anywhere between 100-200 miles, depending on the specific beam/market.
Always before, we were on the 72.5 satellite. Have they moved the locals from the 72.5 markets to the 101?
ALL locals from 72.5 markets are either now, or will soon be "dual illuminated" on the MPEG4 birds (NONE are on the 101 sat), regardless if they are HD OR SD locals. They have NOT shut down the 72.5 locals yet, but it will definitely be happening probably within a year (most likely sooner than that) so it's really a waste of time to even mess with using that dish f/locals.
ALL locals from 72.5 markets are either now, or will soon be "dual illuminated" on the MPEG4 birds (NONE are on the 101 sat), regardless if they are HD OR SD locals. They have NOT shut down the 72.5 locals yet, but it will definitely be happening probably within a year (most likely sooner than that) so it's really a waste of time to even mess with using that dish f/locals.
Yeah, I wasn't even thinking of using the 72.5 dish because I knew that they were shutting down that satellite sometime sooner rather than later, and I figured he wouldn't be able to get the HD locals if they are on the 103(s) satellite because of what everyone has just told me, that's why I was wondering if the SD local channels were really on the 101 (as it says on the list I found). If I went through the menu selection on my receiver and selected the 3LNB dish (Oval, not slimline 3), if the local channels showed up w/out the 72.5 dish then I guess that means they are simulcast on 101 right, since the oval dish doesn't pick up 103?
veryoldschool
11-03-08, 12:21 PM
If I went through the menu selection on my receiver and selected the 3LNB dish (Oval, not slimline 3), if the local channels showed up w/out the 72.5 dish then I guess that means they are simulcast on 101 right, since the oval dish doesn't pick up 103?
"That should work". The Ku spots are "kind of big" so "you might".
Why not just add an AM21 and an OTA antenna to solve the locals problem? AM21 is cheap at $50. Then you wouldn't have to go through a bunch of administrative hoops going back and forth between the locations.
dishrich
11-03-08, 01:24 PM
If I went through the menu selection on my receiver and selected the 3LNB dish (Oval, not slimline 3), if the local channels showed up w/out the 72.5 dish then I guess that means they are simulcast on 101 right, since the oval dish doesn't pick up 103?
I do believe they will still show up in your guide regardless of your dish setting. And since it's hard for me to tell by your post, I'm assuming you DO have a slimline now, so about the only way for you to prove this to yourself, IS to hook up your receiver to a round dish & you'll see for yourself they will NOT come in.
And, even if your SD locals WERE on 101, they'd still be on a spotbeam, so he'd still be SOL 1000 miles away.
I guess I don't know how much plainer I can say it - I guarantee your locals are NOT being simulcasted on 101, period! They ARE on one of the MPEG4 birds. (either 99 or 103) There wouldn't be enough room on 101 for all your SD locals to begin with. (nor anyone else's!) And also, they are NOT broadcasting your HD locals ALSO in SD, which is what they are doing for locals that ARE in SD on 101, like St.Louis. They are doing this (eventually) for ALL 72.5 markets such as yours & mine & are using ALL MPEG4 receivers even for SD only subs, which will downconvert the locals that are in HD, down to SD. Which actually is pretty smart for D* - why waste bandwidth on local channels twice (each in HD & SD), when they can just use the HD locals & have the SD subs receivers downconvert them back to SD.
I do believe they will still show up in your guide regardless of your dish setting. And since it's hard for me to tell by your post, I'm assuming you DO have a slimline now, so about the only way for you to prove this to yourself, IS to hook up your receiver to a round dish & you'll see for yourself they will NOT come in.
And, even if your SD locals WERE on 101, they'd still be on a spotbeam, so he'd still be SOL 1000 miles away.
I guess I don't know how much plainer I can say it - your locals are NOT being simulcasted on 101, period! They ARE on one of the MPEG4 birds. (either 99 or 103) There wouldn't be enough room on 101 for all your SD locals to begin with. And also, they are NOT broadcasting your HD locals ALSO in SD, which is what they are doing for locals that ARE in SD on 101, like St.Louis. They are doing this (eventually) for ALL 72.5 markets such as yours & mine & are using ALL MPEG4 receivers even for SD only subs, which will downconvert the locals that are in HD, down to SD.
Fair enough.....I do have a slimline and reset one of my non-DVR's (didn't want to lose any shows) back to the default settings and went through everything as if I was hooked up to an oval 3-lnb dish....as you predicted, the locals didn't show up (I don't have a 72.5 dish hooked up). I didn't realize that the 101 satellite used spotbeams, I figured if it was on 101 then I could pick it up anywhere.
For some reason, I hadn't thought of the AM21, which would work perfectly for his situation, so thanks for the suggestion 2dogz (although he wouldn't get Mizzou games if he was in VA, but he can deal with that). I just didn't want to hook up this guy's system for him without knowing how legit it is to do so.....I just passed the bar here in Missouri a couple of months ago and don't really feel like getting a call from the Missouri Bar asking about me hooking up illegal satellite!
Can you tell I know JUST enough about this stuff to know I don't know very much :D
Thanks for all the replies by the way....I've learned quite a lot!
veryoldschool
11-03-08, 01:36 PM
I do believe they will still show up in your guide regardless of your dish setting. And since it's hard for me to tell by your post, I'm assuming you DO have a slimline now, so about the only way for you to prove this to yourself, IS to hook up your receiver to a round dish & you'll see for yourself they will NOT come in.
Why? Given that the current locals are/were on 72.5, by rerunning the SAT setup and NOT selecting the 72.5 dish, the receiver will not look for signals from there, so
1- the guide should be updating to the three/five LNB dish without the 72.5 addition.
2- any channels that are received, with the Phase III setting "should be" coming off 101/110/119 locations.
And, even if your SD locals WERE on 101, they'd still be on a spotbeam, so he'd still be SOL 1000 miles away. While it may not work, have you seen the footprint of Ku spot beams? They're "kind of big" [can cover the whole west coast].
They are doing this (eventually) for ALL 72.5 markets such as yours & mine & are using ALL MPEG4 receivers even for SD only subs, which will downconvert the locals that are in HD, down to SD. Which actually is pretty smart for D* - why waste bandwidth on local channels twice (each in HD & SD), when they can just use the HD locals & have the SD subs receivers downconvert them back to SD.
Yeah, I should've known that, when I had my Mover's Connection install at the beginning of October they swapped out all of my MPEG2 equipment for MPEG4 stuff.......if they were putting the locals on 101 AND 103 they wouldn't have had to do that........
dishrich
11-03-08, 01:42 PM
Why? Given that the current locals are/were on 72.5, by rerunning the SAT setup and NOT selecting the 72.5 dish, the receiver will not look for signals from there,
Sorry, but this is NOT always the case - I know this for a fact, because in our market, I have had active SD receivers that were setup for 101 only, & all our local channels continued to show up in the guide. While I understand what you are saying regarding channels & dish locations, (eg: like the spanish/chinese channels will NOT show up unless you select 3 LNB dish) locals channels are different, due to the way they are mapped internally in the receiver.
But OTOH, if you went through dish setup again, then (theroretically) the locals should disappear out of the guide...
While it may not work, have you seen the footprint of Ku spot beams? They're "kind of big" [can cover the whole west coast].
They ain't THAT big on D*, sorry.... :confused: :confused:
dishrich
11-03-08, 01:43 PM
Yeah, I should've known that, when I had my Mover's Connection install at the beginning of October they swapped out all of my MPEG2 equipment for MPEG4 stuff.......if they were putting the locals on 101 AND 103 they wouldn't have had to do that........
Thank you... ;) ;)
Why? Given that the current locals are/were on 72.5, by rerunning the SAT setup and NOT selecting the 72.5 dish, the receiver will not look for signals from there, so
1- the guide should be updating to the three/five LNB dish without the 72.5 addition.
2- any channels that are received, with the Phase III setting "should be" coming off 101/110/119 locations.
While it may not work, have you seen the footprint of Ku spot beams? They're "kind of big" [can cover the whole west coast].
I reran the sat setup and it did NOT show the channels in the guide....unless using a slimline dish when selecting the oval dish in the setup messes something up.
This is the info I got from a post somewhere on DBSTalk (don't ask me to find it :lol: )
Network 557 KMOS 6 2 SW1 @103W wciudt.ch
Network 557 KMOS 6 28 SAT @101W kmos.ch
Network 557 KOMU 8 2 SW1 @103W wpwrdt.ch
Network 557 KOMU 8 28 SAT @101W nbc.ch
Network 557 KRCG 13 2 SW1 @103W wgbhdt3318.ch
Network 557 KRCG 13 28 SAT @101W cbs.ch
Network 557 CW 14 21 SAT @101W cw.ch
Network 557 KMIZ 17 2 SW1 @103W wbzdt.ch
Network 557 KMIZ 17 28 SAT @101W abc.ch
Network 557 KQFX 38 2 SW1 @103W wcvbdt.ch
Network 557 KQFX 38 28 SAT @101W fox.ch
Those are all our local channels (with the exception of CW14, for some reason we get a CW out of the Baltimore, MD area?), which is where I was getting the 101 info from (I promise I didn't just make it up!). The 103 info is correct I think though, because #2 transponder on 103(s) shows about a 40-point increase over all other 103(s) transponders.
veryoldschool
11-03-08, 01:54 PM
Sorry, but this is NOT always the case - I know this for a fact, because in our market, I have had active SD receivers that were setup for 101 only, & all our local channels continued to show up in the guide. While I understand what you are saying regarding channels & dish locations, (eg: like the spanish/chinese channels will NOT show up unless you select 3 LNB dish) locals channels are different, due to the way they are mapped internally in the receiver.
But OTOH, if you went through dish setup again, then (theroretically) the locals should disappear out of the guide...
They ain't THAT big on D*, sorry.... :confused: :confused:
Since I don't have a 72.5 dish, it's "all theory" for me anyway.
Ku verse Ka spots are a "big difference", but since the west coast is over 1,000 miles and is covered by the same Ku spot, it's not out of the realm for the east coast to be as large, and hence not "guaranteed" not to work. :)
veryoldschool
11-03-08, 02:00 PM
I reran the sat setup and it did NOT show the channels in the guide....unless using a slimline dish when selecting the oval dish in the setup messes something up.
This is the info I got from a post somewhere on DBSTalk (don't ask me to find it :lol: )
Network 557 KMOS 6 2 SW1 @103W wciudt.ch
Network 557 KMOS 6 28 SAT @101W kmos.ch
Network 557 KOMU 8 2 SW1 @103W wpwrdt.ch
Network 557 KOMU 8 28 SAT @101W nbc.ch
Network 557 KRCG 13 2 SW1 @103W wgbhdt3318.ch
Network 557 KRCG 13 28 SAT @101W cbs.ch
Network 557 CW 14 21 SAT @101W cw.ch
Network 557 KMIZ 17 2 SW1 @103W wbzdt.ch
Network 557 KMIZ 17 28 SAT @101W abc.ch
Network 557 KQFX 38 2 SW1 @103W wcvbdt.ch
Network 557 KQFX 38 28 SAT @101W fox.ch
Those are all our local channels (with the exception of CW14, for some reason we get a CW out of the Baltimore, MD area?), which is where I was getting the 101 info from (I promise I didn't just make it up!). The 103 info is correct I think though, because #2 transponder on 103(s) shows about a 40-point increase over all other 103(s) transponders.
"seems like" the test would be to not have the 72.5 SAT setup in your setup AND set up the 3 LNB dish [not the slimline]. "If" SD channels can be received, then they would be off 101. If not then, the list is in error [or is a future "plan"].
"seems like" the test would be to not have the 72.5 SAT setup in your setup AND set up the 3 LNB dish [not the slimline]. "If" SD channels can be received, then they would be off 101. If not then, the list is in error [or is a future "plan"].
Yeah, this guy is a good friend, but I don't think I'm going to drag out the oval dish I have in the garage to test the theory :D Although at this point I am a little curious, I must say.
veryoldschool
11-03-08, 02:07 PM
Yeah, this guy is a good friend, but I don't think I'm going to drag out the oval dish I have in the garage to test the theory :D Although at this point I am a little curious, I must say.
You shouldn't need to "drag out the dish", but "simply" change [re-run] your SAT setup, while still connected to your slimline [and pick the 3 LNB dish].
You shouldn't need to "drag out the dish", but "simply" change [re-run] your SAT setup, while still connected to your slimline [and pick the 3 LNB dish].
Oh, well in that case that is what I did (I went to my H20, reset everything back to the default, and when it began the guided setup I selected the oval 3 lnb dish and no 72.5 dish) and none of the local channels popped up in the guide, and it wouldn't let me select them by typing in the channel number.
Why not just add an AM21 and an OTA antenna to solve the locals problem?The problem with this theory is that you must obtain an HR2x to support each AM21.
veryoldschool
11-03-08, 02:37 PM
Oh, well in that case that is what I did (I went to my H20, reset everything back to the default, and when it began the guided setup I selected the oval 3 lnb dish and no 72.5 dish) and none of the local channels popped up in the guide, and it wouldn't let me select them by typing in the channel number.
I'd say you now have your answer.
Thanks for all the responses everyone; I expected nothing less from this great forum. I will tell him what I found out and let him call DirecTV and see what they say about the legality of such installations, and let him know locals (in Columbia at least) are pretty much out of the question unless he wants to slingbox or something.
Thanks again!
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