Need help performing self install

[xtreme571]

Hey Guys...I've searched for this, and didn't see it, and saw some of the information at various places, but no solid answer.

I'm performing a self install on the new DirecTV system. I've done D*Network in the past, and was pretty easy to do. Mount the Dish, run the Cable, Hook Up the Receiver, and get a good signal strength and you are set.

Switched to DirecTV, and now I'm a bit confused. I picked up SlimLine 5LNB Dish. LNB has 4 outputs, so its not the single wire dish. I've set the Elevation and Azimuth according to the various websites. I also picked up HR22 from BestBuy. I checked with the guys at SolidSignal, and was told I would need SWM-PI (Power Inserter) in order to power the LNBs, as the receiver will not be powering it. So I got that as well. I'm only running 1 cable from the dish to the PI unit, and then one cable to the Receiver. I am not using BBCs, and only Tuner 1 has cable connected to it. I can't get any signal at all. I'm pointed in the right direction and have tried various directions. I have also tried various settings int he setup menu.

Am I doing something wrong? Missing a piece maybe??

Any help is appreciated.

[veryoldschool]

Hey Guys...I've searched for this, and didn't see it, and saw some of the information at various places, but no solid answer.

I'm performing a self install on the new DirecTV system. I've done D*Network in the past, and was pretty easy to do. Mount the Dish, run the Cable, Hook Up the Receiver, and get a good signal strength and you are set.

Switched to DirecTV, and now I'm a bit confused. I picked up SlimLine 5LNB Dish. LNB has 4 outputs, so its not the single wire dish. I've set the Elevation and Azimuth according to the various websites. I also picked up HR22 from BestBuy. I checked with the guys at SolidSignal, and was told I would need SWM-PI (Power Inserter) in order to power the LNBs, as the receiver will not be powering it. So I got that as well. I'm only running 1 cable from the dish to the PI unit, and then one cable to the Receiver. I am not using BBCs, and only Tuner 1 has cable connected to it. I can't get any signal at all. I'm pointed in the right direction and have tried various directions. I have also tried various settings int he setup menu.

Am I doing something wrong? Missing a piece maybe??

Any help is appreciated.
My guess is that you've "smoked" the LNB with too much voltage.
The Slimline "four output" LNB should never be powered with a PI

[David MacLeod]

with the 4 output lnb you don't need a SWM PI, 2 lines from the dish go to the dvr. you may have damaged lnb.

the PI is for SWM setups.

VOS beat me to it.

[xtreme571]

So...are the 2 lines required??? or Can it work on 1 line?

I had tried it without the PI, before I spoke with the SolidSignal guys, and I still had no signal.

[veryoldschool]

So...are the 2 lines required??? or Can it work on 1 line?

I had tried it without the PI, before I spoke with the SolidSignal guys, and I still had no signal.
"You can start" with a single line, and have only one tuner active.
verify your settings here: http://www.dishpointer.com/

[xtreme571]

I got those exact measurements as dishpointer.com, the dish pointing the same way. I have verified that the receiver is working, took it to a friends house who has directv. Possibly a bad LNB to begin with?

[David MacLeod]

no, probably not exactly on aim point. the coordinates are a start point.

[veryoldschool]

I got those exact measurements as dishpointer.com, the dish pointing the same way. I have verified that the receiver is working, took it to a friends house who has directv. Possibly a bad LNB to begin with?
At this point there are too many variables, and most likely the LNB assemble is "toast".
You may have had a bad LNB, cable, etc., but since ~ 20 volts is all the dish should ever see, and a PI will either be 24 or 28 volts, as they're for a SWM LNB, Solid Signal gave you the wrong "answer" for your dish.
If you've got your elevation correctly set, you "might try" changing cables/dish outputs, and then see if you can pick up anything. Sweep the dish back and forth,while monitoring the 101 SAT and see if there is "any sniff" of a signal.

[joe diamond]

Solid Signal has great tech pages............whoever told you to use a PI with the 5LNB dish should read the pages.

After you get another Slinline . . .

Joe

[carl6]

Sweep the dish back and forth,while monitoring the 101 SAT and see if there is "any sniff" of a signal.

Let me add one word to this suggestion: SLOWLY.
Sweep the dish back and forth SLOWLY while monitoring...

The window of movement within which you will find a signal is very small. A movement of a couple of inches of the LNB assembly left or right will take you from zero past full scale and back to zero. So when aligning, set the elevation and tilt, make sure your mast is plumb, then very slowly adjust azimuth left or right from the starting point looking for a signal. If you find a signal, adjust for maximum then verify you are on the correct satellite using your receiver.

I don't know if 29 volts will smoke a regular LNB, but it is possible. If that is what has happened, and if you are interested in single line operation, then you want to get an SWMLine LNB assembly (that has only one output port) to replace the one you have. That LNB does require the power inserter.

Carl

[xtreme571]

Thanks a lot guys,
I'll try taking the LNB to friends house and see if it works w/o the power inserter as he already has his dish aligned and is getting signal in 90s or so. Of course after removing the splitter/multiswitch.

If the LNB is smoked, I would prefer to get the 1-Output/Line LNB. Would the Power inswerter (SWM-PI) work with that LNB or do I have to get PI-21?
As I've read in the forums, SWM-PI provides 29Volts, and PI-21 provides 21Volts.

HR22 DVR isn't providing any voltage from the tuner ports. I know my old Dish Receivers provided a certain voltage output to power the LNB. I have an old RadioShack Satellite Finder that turns on when plugged into the Dish receiver, but does not turn on when plugged into HR22. Is that normal?

[rudeney]

All D* tuners supply voltage for the LNB. They have to as it's the 18v/13v selection that has the LNB switch between odd vs. even transponders. The SWM needs more voltage than the tuners provide and that's why it needs a PI. The SWM-ODU only needs the 21v PI, but the SWM8 module needs 29v.

[David MacLeod]

I'd take your rec. back to your friends also to see if it still works.

[BattleScott]

Also, you don't say which satellite you are trying to tune. Without the BBC inline you will only read a signal on 101, 110 or 119. The 99 and 103 sats need the BBC inline to aquire a signal.

[samrs]

Directv receivers in SWM mode don't provide any power out to the lnb, it isn't required. If you disconnect the PI, unplug the receiver for a few minutes and plug it back in you should get power.

[BattleScott]

Directv receivers in SWM mode don't provide any power out to the lnb, it isn't required. If you disconnect the PI, unplug the receiver for a few minutes and plug it back in you should get power.

I was wondering about that too. The tech that was here last week to replace my HR20 was talking about the SWM stuff and he said once it detects SWM mode, it is set for good and can't be used as normal. I asked if there was any way to restore 'factory defaults' and he said no.

[carl6]

I was wondering about that too. The tech that was here last week to replace my HR20 was talking about the SWM stuff and he said once it detects SWM mode, it is set for good and can't be used as normal. I asked if there was any way to restore 'factory defaults' and he said no.

It can be set back to regular mode in the satellite setup procedure. Doing a reset or a power down will not change that mode. I'm not sure about a reset everything.

[BattleScott]

It can be set back to regular mode in the satellite setup procedure. Doing a reset or a power down will not change that mode. I'm not sure about a reset everything.

That seems logical. I figured there must be way to reset it back to the standard system type.

[xtreme571]

I'd take your rec. back to your friends also to see if it still works.
Ok, just got back from friends house, and the receiver works there. He has a Single Line LNB, and PI-21 with SWS-4 splitting the signal to 3 HD Recs.

Also, you don't say which satellite you are trying to tune. Without the BBC inline you will only read a signal on 101, 110 or 119. The 99 and 103 sats need the BBC inline to aquire a signal.
I'm trying to get the 99, 101, 103, 110 and 119. The setup screen says that "Do not install BBCs". I had previously taken the rec to friends house to make sure it is not the problem, the setup ran and it had full signal there.

I was wondering about that too. The tech that was here last week to replace my HR20 was talking about the SWM stuff and he said once it detects SWM mode, it is set for good and can't be used as normal. I asked if there was any way to restore 'factory defaults' and he said no.
I think you can change that from the settings. There is a list of like 20 different dish configurations in there. There is 5LNB SWM and just plain 5LNB.

Directv receivers in SWM mode don't provide any power out to the lnb, it isn't required. If you disconnect the PI, unplug the receiver for a few minutes and plug it back in you should get power.
I'm not understanding what u mean by bold section. The receiver powers up fine, i was referring to the power to the lnb, how are lnbs powered?

[David MacLeod]

Ok, just got back from friends house, and the receiver works there. He has a Single Line LNB, and PI-21 with SWS-4 splitting the signal to 3 HD Recs.


I'm trying to get the 99, 101, 103, 110 and 119. The setup screen says that "Do not install BBCs". I had previously taken the rec to friends house to make sure it is not the problem, the setup ran and it had full signal there.


I think you can change that from the settings. There is a list of like 20 different dish configurations in there. There is 5LNB SWM and just plain 5LNB.

without a swm setup you need the bbc's. you need to change your dish type to multiswitch and NOT smw.

[excalibur26]

It can be set back to regular mode in the satellite setup procedure.......

Couldn't access this in my now replaced HR22. Tuner 2 was showing no strength, and I tried all sort of resets, but there was no way to access/change the type of dish or lnb, as I'm on a SWM-ODU. Neither box was clickable.

Only single/dual tuner was clickable, and when the setup told me what I already knew, that tuner 2 had no signal, it would always reset to single tuner.

[veryoldschool]

Couldn't access this in my now replaced HR22. Tuner 2 was showing no strength, and I tried all sort of resets, but there was no way to access/change the type of dish or lnb, as I'm on a SWM-ODU. Neither box was clickable.

Only single/dual tuner was clickable, and when the setup told me what I already knew, that tuner 2 had no signal, it would always reset to single tuner.
Try pulling the power cord for 10-15+ and then letting it "boot cold" and see if that helps.
Many time problems like this are due to a small voltage being stored on a chip that needs longer than a "normal" reboot to clear/bleed off.
I had one receiver that needed 8 hours without power to "come back" to a non SWM system mode.

[samrs]

I'm not understanding what u mean by bold section. The receiver powers up fine, i was referring to the power to the lnb, how are lnbs powered?

In a conventional setup the LNB's are powered by the IRD's LNB power supply.
In a SWM setup the LNB's are powered by the Power Inserter, the lnb power supply in the IRD's shut down. This happens automatically when the IRD's are powered up and detect SWM. I likely spoke to soon about turning the LNB power supply back on, I haven't ever had to try, and would defer to carl6's superior knowledge.

[excalibur26]

New HR22 working fine.

[excalibur26]

No need for me to do that now as the replacement HR22 is performing just fine.

I did unplug the *old* HR22 for 15+ minutes, up to several hours. Nothing would awaken tuner 2, and nothing would allow me to alter satellite dish type or multiswitch type. So I suspct that maybe, just maybe, that tech was right, an once on a SWM-ODU you cannot go back.

[veryoldschool]

No need for me to do that now as the replacement HR22 is performing just fine.

I did unplug the *old* HR22 for 15+ minutes, up to several hours. Nothing would awaken tuner 2, and nothing would allow me to alter satellite dish type or multiswitch type. So I suspct that maybe, just maybe, hat tech was right an once ona SWM-ODU you cannot go back.
"Foolish" to think once a receiver is on a SWM system, that it will never work on a non SWM system again.

[excalibur26]

I'm only speaking from experience with the SWM-ODU. It would not allow me to change dish type or switch type. Have not tried on any HR21's or the HR22.

So *foolish*, maybe, but when I tried on one HR22, nothing would allow a change back on a SWM-ODU to anything else.

[veryoldschool]

I'm only speaking from experience with the SWM-ODU. It would not allow me to change dish type or switch type. Have not tried on any HR21's or the HR22.

So *foolish*, maybe, but when I tried on one HR22, nothing would allow a change back on a SWM-ODU to anything else.
"Back in the old days" during the SWM/software testing, I "bounced" my H20 back and forth.

[xtreme571]

In a conventional setup the LNB's are powered by the IRD's LNB power supply.
In a SWM setup the LNB's are powered by the Power Inserter, the lnb power supply in the IRD's shut down. This happens automatically when the IRD's are powered up and detect SWM. I likely spoke to soon about turning the LNB power supply back on, I haven't ever had to try, and would defer to carl6's superior knowledge.

Ok so if i'm getting this right:

IF there is a SWM LNB, there is a Power inserter which is required. Once the receiver is powered and detects that the dish is SWM type, it shuts off its power supply to the LNBs and depends on Power Inserter to supply the power to the LNBs.

In a non-SWM dish, the receiver powers the LNBs, and Power Inserter is NOT required.

Ok, so I've disconnected all the cables from the receiver, and the LNBs. I will let it sit overnight and see what happens in the morning.

Hopefully my LNB is not smoked as mentioned earlier that adding 29volt power supply might smoke it.

EDIT: How can I test the LNB?

[carl6]

I am going to quote an engineering source at DirecTV with regard to the single/dual tuner and using swm/non-swm, etc. There have been a lot of questions and confusion since the 255 software release, so here is what he has to say. The bold emphasis is mine, not his.

Please note the bold - just doing a reset (or power cycle) no longer causes the unit to autodetect. You now have to go back through satellite setup in order to change from SWM to non-SWM, and to detect the number of connected tuners. You also have to complete satellite setup - pressing "continue", you can't go part way through then back out. Note also that you might have to go through that process more than once for the autodetect to properly work, and that you have to be hooked up to the proper type of dish/switch when you do this.

This quote was mostly in reply to how to change from one to two, or from two to one tuner. The greyed out field does not make that happen except in the single case of being on an SWM, and then it is only meant to be used if you have more than eight tuners that will be connected to it. That field will then allow you to disable one of the tuners in the IRD so that you can connect a DVR to an SWM that has 7 active tuners on it already.


People are confused because we didn't hide the option when we first introduced IV in 255, but before 255 they never even had the option of selecting dual/single tuner. Now that they got access to it for a few months they think that was actually meant to control it. It was only intended to be used with a SWM setup in case someone added another DVR and exceeded their 8 channels.

When you are on a multiswitch it still autodetects but it doesn't happen on bootup anymore. You have to go to the satellite setup screen and once you select continue it then does the autodetect. There are some boxes out there that ... may not work on the first shot. The grayed out tuner field in the previous screen does show you what the autodetect came up with last time you ran it.

[carl6]

How can I test the LNB?

If you have a regular (non-SWM) LNB, there will be four output ports on it. It is possible that if you did in fact damage the LNB by connecting the power inserter, that you may have only damaged that particular output port. It is possible you didn't damage anything, and it is possible that you smoked the whole thing (in which case you must change your user name to SMOKE2 :lol: )

What you might try is connecting to a different port on the LNB - avoid the one you were using before at least until you can find or not find a signal. If you succeed in getting enough of an alignment to see a signal on 101 satellite, then you can move back to the output port you were using originally and see if you still see the signal.

If you have one of the outputs that is not working, but the other 3 seem to be okay, and you don't need more than 3 tuners total, you can still use it. Just don't connect to the bad output port. You cannot use an external multiswitch in this case, as it would require all 4 connections.

Without other test equipment, I can't really think of another way to test your LNB to see if it is good or not. If you had a meter, such as an accutrac or birddog, you could measure power draw to each of the ports, etc., and be able to tell more.

[veryoldschool]

If you have a regular (non-SWM) LNB, there will be four output ports on it. It is possible that if you did in fact damage the LNB by connecting the power inserter, that you may have only damaged that particular output port. It is possible you didn't damage anything, and it is possible that you smoked the whole thing (in which case you must change your user name to SMOKE2 :lol: )

What you might try is connecting to a different port on the LNB - avoid the one you were using before at least until you can find or not find a signal. If you succeed in getting enough of an alignment to see a signal on 101 satellite, then you can move back to the output port you were using originally and see if you still see the signal.

If you have one of the outputs that is not working, but the other 3 seem to be okay, and you don't need more than 3 tuners total, you can still use it. Just don't connect to the bad output port. You cannot use an external multiswitch in this case, as it would require all 4 connections.

Without other test equipment, I can't really think of another way to test your LNB to see if it is good or not. If you had a meter, such as an accutrac or birddog, you could measure power draw to each of the ports, etc., and be able to tell more.
[echos of post #8] :)

[David MacLeod]

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SL5

for the $50 I would start over and stop messing with it. this is lnb for present setup. once running you can swap old lnb back in to test it if you want.
just an opinion.

[rudeney]

If you have a regular (non-SWM) LNB, there will be four output ports on it. It is possible that if you did in fact damage the LNB by connecting the power inserter, that you may have only damaged that particular output port. It is possible you didn't damage anything, and it is possible that you smoked the whole thing (in which case you must change your user name to SMOKE2 :lol: )

I would think that if connecting the PI damaged anything, it would kill the entire LNB. Actually, it probably didn't hurt the LNB's themselves, but the multiswitch built into it.

[carl6]

I would think that if connecting the PI damaged anything, it would kill the entire LNB. Actually, it probably didn't hurt the LNB's themselves, but the multiswitch built into it.

Look at photo 5801 in this post http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1322936&postcount=275 and you can see that there are solid state devices on each output, they are not simply paralleled. My guess is that if an improper voltage were applied sufficient to damage something, that device would act as a circuit breaker protecting the rest of the LNB/switch electronics.

Carl

[rudeney]

There are two IC's right there in the center. Those would be my concern. The rest of the components are just resistors, capacitors, diodes and transistors that shouldn't be fried at 29v vs. 13v/18v.

[xtreme571]

@carl...nice sense of humor

What I'm thinking about doing is taking the LNB off, and take it over to my friends place. Replace his LNB with this one, as the dish is pointing at the right place already, I would atleast have the right direction for the satellite. Of course remove his PI as he has Single Wire LNB, and connect the incoming cable directly to his receiver.

I will try all the ports on the LNB, if the original one doesnt work, as Carl mentioned. As his setup is working already, I wouldn't have to worry about satellite positioning, or bad cable or anything.

Any other suggestions?

[GlennJ84]

At some point you should ask yourself... Should I really be doing this myself? How much of your time has been wasted for a $99 install fee. Possibly contact a local guy to get it squared away.

Two and a Half Men Say, "He's fixing it himself? Why didn't he just call the guy?"
Just my .02.

Peace Brother.

@carl...nice sense of humor

What I'm thinking about doing is taking the LNB off, and take it over to my friends place. Replace his LNB with this one, as the dish is pointing at the right place already, I would atleast have the right direction for the satellite. Of course remove his PI as he has Single Wire LNB, and connect the incoming cable directly to his receiver.

I will try all the ports on the LNB, if the original one doesnt work, as Carl mentioned. As his setup is working already, I wouldn't have to worry about satellite positioning, or bad cable or anything.

Any other suggestions?

[David MacLeod]

seeing as how the friends rec. would all have to be reconfigured to a single tuner non-swm setup, which has been having issues, I would not mess with a working setup now.
as I said, if it was me I'd just replace the lnb with a good one and get the thing running so you can watch it. you can always test your suspect lnb on your own system later.

[xtreme571]

At some point you should ask yourself... Should I really be doing this myself? How much of your time has been wasted for a $99 install fee. Possibly contact a local guy to get it squared away.

Two and a Half Men Say, "He's fixing it himself? Why didn't he just call the guy?"
Just my .02.

Peace Brother.

I know what you are saying and you are making a valid point, and I've done many things which I could've gotten done by someone else cheaper. It's not the money factor, I just get satisfaction by getting everything done myself.

seeing as how the friends rec. would all have to be reconfigured to a single tuner non-swm setup, which has been having issues, I would not mess with a working setup now.
as I said, if it was me I'd just replace the lnb with a good one and get the thing running so you can watch it. you can always test your suspect lnb on your own system later.

Ok, so I'll just get another LNB. I wonder if BestBuy or Circuity City sells them.

[xtreme571]

Another question guys, I've heard that the new HD DVRs aren't really good at dish signal meter. Like they don't tell you immediately whether a signal is picked up or not.

Is the basic D12-300 receiver also the same way? or does it give instant response to a signal?

Thanks guys, appreciate all the help

[GlennJ84]

Another question guys, I've heard that the new HD DVRs aren't really good at dish signal meter. Like they don't tell you immediately whether a signal is picked up or not.

Is the basic D12-300 receiver also the same way? or does it give instant response to a signal?

Thanks guys, appreciate all the help

They all have a little delay, but the D12-xxx will only give you 101 and possibly 119. Best bet for all signals is to use your DVR.

So best bet is to move a little, wait a sec. then move again. Remeber once you get a little signal to start using the fine adjust screw mechanism.

[GlennJ84]

LNB's aren't generally sold at the local retailers. At least not around the So. Cal area.

[veryoldschool]

Another question guys, I've heard that the new HD DVRs aren't really good at dish signal meter. Like they don't tell you immediately whether a signal is picked up or not.

Is the basic D12-300 receiver also the same way? or does it give instant response to a signal?

Thanks guys, appreciate all the help
I've used the HD receivers and while it may not be "instantaneous", they work fine if you wait "a moment" for the reading.

[xtreme571]

ok guys, got my new lnb now. put it in and i've got signal. I cant find the BBCs, but I've got 3 sats. 2 are showing red, but thats because of the bbcs. If I dont find the BBCs, I'll buy them form ebay or something.

Also, the 3 sats the receiver picked up all with ~95 signal strength. 110 is not getting the vertical transponders, while others are getting both.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate everybody coming in and helping out.

[veryoldschool]

ok guys, got my new lnb now. put it in and i've got signal. I cant find the BBCs, but I've got 3 sats. 2 are showing red, but thats because of the bbcs. If I dont find the BBCs, I'll buy them form ebay or something.

Also, the 3 sats the receiver picked up all with ~95 signal strength. 110 is not getting the vertical transponders, while others are getting both.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for all the help guys, really appreciate everybody coming in and helping out.
110 only has three TPs.
DirecTV will send you free BBCs. Either call or go to the website.

[xtreme571]

110 only has three TPs.
DirecTV will send you free BBCs. Either call or go to the website.

Ok so i guess signal is coming good. Thanks for the tip on the BBCs, just put in the request online, says it will take 10-14 days. Hopefully I can find mine before that.

[David MacLeod]

Ok so i guess signal is coming good. Thanks for the tip on the BBCs, just put in the request online, says it will take 10-14 days. Hopefully I can find mine before that.

call them, I have gotten them in 3 days two separate times.

[xtreme571]

Ok guys, I got the B-Band converters like last week, put em in, and worked flawlessly, and today I tried to schedule 2 recordings at the same time, it showed me if I want to cancel another recording to record this one or cancel request.

Went to setup, and it shows Both tuners are receive almost same (numbers) transponders, but when going to "signal meter" screen, only Tuner 1 shows 95% Signal, and Tuner 2 shows "Not Acquired"

Did a Restart, Satellite Setup, Red Button Reset, Complete power off reset (waited 1 hour), Menu Resets, but still no go.

in the info screen it shows as following
Manufacturer: 100
Model Number: HR22
Access Card: xxxx-xxxx-xxxx
Receiver ID: xxxx xxxx xxxx
Software
Original Ver: 0x235
Past Upgrade: 0x29b
Dish Type: Slimline-5
Antenna
Primary Local: 60143
Secondary Local: None
Ch's Via Antenna: 36
Features
Tuner: Tuner 1: SAT, Record
Tuner 2: SAT
Off-Air Tuner 1: Removed
Off-Air Tuner 2: Removed

EDIT: I have tried switching the cables and b-band converters between the two tuners, the problem still continues. Tuner 2 still does not receive any signal.
Any suggestions??

[carl6]

Go into sat setup again. Change dish type to round 18", and finish sat setup (no reset). Then go back into sat setup and change dish back to Slimline-5 and finish setup (no reset).

[xtreme571]

Go into sat setup again. Change dish type to round 18", and finish sat setup (no reset). Then go back into sat setup and change dish back to Slimline-5 and finish setup (no reset).

THANK YOU Carl. That did the trick.