Russia against lifting UN sanctions on Iraq

[John Corn]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=1514&e=21&u=/afp/20030417/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_war_russia_un_030417121631

Russia will not support a US proposal to lift UN sanctions on Iraq if UN inspectors do not confirm the country has no weapons of mass destruction, a Russian foreign ministry official said. "Regime change in Baghdad is not a condition for lifting economic sanctions on Iraq," the official told the Interfax news agency on condition of anonymity. "There is a UN Security Council resolution for this, which clearly stipulates the disarmament of Iraq -- something international inspectors must decide," he said, adding that Russia supported the return of UN inspectors

[Bogy]

Sounds reasonable. Or was an unstated reason for our invasion of Iraq the goal of establishing Iraq as a base of operations to invade Iraq's neighbors? You know, the invasion that ain't gonna happen? Why should we be afraid of Arms Inspectors now? Without all the Iraqi interference they should be able to find any WMD much more easily. Coalition forces have already called in the inspectors to inspect stuff they have found, to determine just what the items in question are. Getting them all back in there to finish their job sounds like a very good suggestion.

[Ken_F]

Seems reasonable to me. The justification for sanctions was that the country of Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. A new regime (U.S. led or not) does not change that; they still need to find and eliminate those weapons as per U.N. resolutions.

[Bogy]

Obviously, if they are there, and they are not found, they can still fall into the hands of terrorists. That was our fear, wasn't it? Weapons Inspectors are the ones trained to identify such things safely. I would say they are needed now more than ever, with the anarchy and looting going on.

[RichW]

Could it be that the Russians are "rubbing it in" a little?

[Mike123abc]

Russia and France do not want to see the sanctions lifted because if the sanctions were lifted there would be no "control" over Iraq left in the UN. The US has been hinting that they can trade "around" those sanctions, but I think that getting the UN on board would help a lot.

[waydwolf]

   France and Russia don't want sanctions lifted because it would mean allowing a much quicker economic improvement in Iraq, which would improve morale, decrease likelihood of backlash against the Americans, and complete the most rapid war of its kind in history as it started: few casualties compared to any other, little damage compared to any other, finished with rapid rebuild and restabilization.

    If France and Russia get their way, and economic stimulus of Iraq is stymied, then they can say that America did far more harm than good and that leaving Saddam in place was the right thing. There's a very bigoted belief floating around in that camp that middle eastern people are barbarians who cannot make democracy work and create first world nations, and that they must have tyrants and strongmen ruling with iron fists.

[Mike123abc]

I am also sure that to get the UN to lift sanctions they would want all the contracts that France and Russia had with Saddam reinstated and their money paid. They really are going to ride the sanctions as long as they can. Prior to the war they wanted to lift sanctions because there was no WMD. How quickly their tune changes to get the $$ out of Iraq and to them.

[Bogy]

I'm sure that if it had been Russia that had "liberated" Iraq, since we had been saying all along that the most important thing was the removal of Saddam, we would have accepted the "regime change" and immediately voted to lift the sanctions. Yeah, right, and I expect "Harvey" to stop by my house with bunny eggs in a couple of days as well. :lol:

[Mike123abc]

Originally posted by Bogy
I'm sure that if it had been Russia that had "liberated" Iraq, since we had been saying all along that the most important thing was the removal of Saddam, we would have accepted the "regime change" and immediately voted to lift the sanctions. Yeah, right, and I expect "Harvey" to stop by my house with bunny eggs in a couple of days as well. :lol:

Of course each country looks out for itself in the UN. The ugly truth of the UN has been exposed the last few months. One wonders if they UN will ever really work again. I would like to think the US is not as blatent as Russia and France. But, other countries probably view the US that way.

[Bogy]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
Of course each country looks out for itself in the UN. The ugly truth of the UN has been exposed the last few months. One wonders if they UN will ever really work again. I would like to think the US is not as blatent as Russia and France. But, other countries probably view the US that way.
Aha, the light dawns. :)
The sad thing is that this administration has completely blown any credibility we had with most of the world.

[George_F]

Russia is looking out for its own oil interests and nothing else. With the US and Britain in control of the oil fields, lifting of the embargo and having customers to buy may be a moot point.

[Halfsek]

Originally posted by Bogy
Sounds reasonable...
Okay, this kind of burns me. As a minister (forgive me if I'm wrong) you should be worrying about the welfare for everyone; not your political agenda. It seems to me that you're putting your anti war stance in front of your religious beliefs. Not that you said this outright, but your statements show that you're willing to have the Iraqi people suffer just to stick one to GW.
That's really disgusting.

I do agree that inspectors should go in now, but you know as well as anyone else that inspections could easily take over a year. You're willing to let the Iraqis suffer that long? For what reason?
There are millions of dollars marked for the Iraqi people that could be used right now if the UN freed it up. But you would rather have the US taxpayers pay for it (hence prolonging any economic upturn we will see) and wait for the arms inspectors to do their jobs- although that would be another mark against GW.

We all know that the sanctions were aimed at Hussein. Without him it's a completely different story. Free up the money. It's the property of Iraq to being with.

At the same time let in the inspectors do their jobs.
I'm sure that if it had been Russia that had "liberated" Iraq
So you're saying that because you think we would have done the same, it's okay for others to do it?
So in your mind, it's okay to do wrong becuase the other guy probably would do the same?
What might have happened if someone else liberated Iraq is absolutely irrelevant. What is important is the present.

I can understand France, Germany and Russia saying this. But for someone who is suppose to answer to a higher order, your attitude is grossly hypocritical at best.

[lastmanstanding]

~~~~~The sad thing is that this administration has completely blown any credibility we had with most of the world.~~~~

Bogy,

You are off by 180 degrees on this one. The US now HAS credibility. France, Germany, and Russia are trying to figure out how to get back on our good side with looking like total idiots. A big job, to be sure, but the wind has shifted.

Even North Korea and Syria are changing their tune.

Sorry Bogy, wrong big time on this one. Try again.

BTW- don't try to hold out Russia's postion on sanctions as a counter example. They are smart enough to know they are on the wrong side of this but are trying to save face while making nice. You watch. They can only lose more standing in W's way.

Just out of curiosity, are you really a minister? I saw Halfsek's note. What demonmination, if I may ask?

Fighting aside, Happy Easter.

[RandyAB]

Funny how now it is not ok to lift the sanctions. Some interesting articles.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/council/russ0009.htm

http://fpeng.peopledaily.com.cn/200104/19/eng20010419_68067.html

http://therussiajournal.com/index.htm?obj=3857

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/sanction/iraq1/council/2002/0116russia.htm

[BobMurdoch]

If sanctions are not lifted then resentment grows. And then all of that pro US support within Iraq falls apart.

The US NEEDS someone to start hammering the UN with pictures of the problems sanctions has caused over the last ten years. Sanctions are the WORST form of making someone cave to world opinion. The only place that you could argue they had ANY possible positive effect was in South Africa, but even then I felt that the 90% of the people who wanted change affected that change, not sanctions.