Who will point to 121 on day one?

[Cyclone]

I'm curious since people here are the cutting edge folks. If the 121 satellite has a great improvements, would you repoint to it the day it lights up?

I guess by improvements I would expect increased PQ and additional channels.

Cyclone

I'm guessing that I would if my 6000 & 4900 support it.

[Mike123abc]

I have an extra 35" dish out in the garage, I would point it, but would have to get a new LNB to get it. Anyone know what LNB will be needed for 121?

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have submitted a list of questions to Dish Network regarding 121 and received a note back that they are still finalizing plans for 121.

I believe that is MAY be a large topic on next months tech chat.

There are a lot of questions that need to be answered about 121. :)

[JohnH]

I plan to point at Galaxy 10R(123w) soon and bump it when EchoStar 9 is Geostationary at 121. Of course, I have 2 C/Ku BUDs which could point there on a moments notice. I like to "watch" them. :)

[JohnH]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
I have an extra 35" dish out in the garage, I would point it, but would have to get a new LNB to get it. Anyone know what LNB will be needed for 121?

Something like the DVB 322 at Rick's Satellite (http://gofastmotorsports.dnswh.com/rickssatellitelnblnbf.htm) for the Ku band.

[Darkman]

Originally posted by JohnH
I plan to point at Galaxy 10R(123w) soon and bump it when EchoStar 9 is Geostationary at 121. Of course, I have 2 C/Ku BUDs which could point there on a moments notice. I like to "watch" them. :)

Cool!

At least if noone else - you ll be able to tell us the exact channel content there at 121 :)

[Darkman]

I guess Dishnet would have to send some new Firmware's software versions to irds to support 121 on the Install menu (or something like that)?

And you people think 121 would be compatible with any of the existing switches (SWs, etc) and/or Switch Check button on IRD?

[Mike123abc]

It should be compatible with current switches. The LNB does all the work of downconverting the satellite freqencies to the Lband that is on the cable. The freqencies on the cable are set in the DVB standard.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by Darkman
I guess Dishnet would have to send some new Firmware's software versions to irds to support 121 on the Install menu (or something like that)?

And you people think 121 would be compatible with any of the existing switches (SWs, etc) and/or Switch Check button on IRD?

I have heard from a few people that 121 will only be seen by "Dish Pro" compatable equipment, which I find hard to believe since it has been mentioned that some HD content will be at 121, and the Dish 6000 is not a DishPro compatable piece of equipment. If I were dish I would put HD on 110 so that a normal Dish 500 could get HD.

A new type of switch would be needed so you could look at 4 orbital locations, I know many people pointed at 61.5 are also SkyAngel subscribers so they would need to make a way for 4 locations to be able to be seen.

Of course another qestion comes up will Dish have to offer some public interest channels from 121 since this satellite is not technically a DBS slot or satellite?

The questions all need answers

[Marcus S]

I wonder if home owners associations and apartments will now be able to say NO, most are already preventing more than 1 dish period. Current FCC regulations allow up to one 24" dish. Beyond size and number of. Humm..

Could this be another failed strategy?

[Chris Freeland]

Good questions Scott, I kind of doubt that Dish Pro receivers will be needed except possibly for those few who need to see 4-orbital locations. Do subs in Philly who have Sky Angel or International on 61.5 plus some locals on 129 and core and locals at 110 and 119 need a Dish Pro to do this? If not, then subs who need to see 61.5 or 148 plus 111, 119 and 121 should not have to either, since 129 is KU-FSS just like 121.

If my Chattanooga locals end up on 121, I will likely upgrade if E* offers a good upgrade deal, if not I may just continue to receive my locals Free OTA and give up ever getting my local FOX 61.

[Adam Richey]

Depending on what is immediately available on 121, I might have a dish to point there. If they have more HD offerings, I would SERIOUSLY consider it. Does anybody else besides me wonder when or IF either E* or D* will ever decide to add a few basic channel west coast feeds? They could put them on a side sat or something like that. It would be a nice and cheap way to inflate the channel count.

[Steve Mehs]

I hope DishPro LNBs and switchs are not required. Current;y I fail to see any reason why I should upgrade to DP hardware with only two receivers. I won't point to 121 on day one but eventually I will.

[Mike123abc]

It would not be good for them to put HDTV on 121. 121 is fairly low power. The transponders are the same power as 61.5 and 148 transponders. This is enough for 2/3 FCC on 61.5 and 148. This gives them enough room for 2 HDTV channels per transponder. In contrast with 110 they should be able to use 5/6 FCC because the 110 transponders run 2x the power. This will let them get 3 HDTV channels per transponder on 110.

[Mike123abc]

Another note. The 121 strategy would be best for LIL small markets and international for the simple reason that it would not require everyone to have to go get new dishes. Only the people in the small markets would have to have the special dish and international.

[Mike500]

Originally posted by Marcus S
I wonder if home owners associations and apartments will now be able to say NO, most are already preventing more than 1 dish period. Current FCC regulations allow up to one 24" dish. Beyond size and number of. Humm..

Could this be another failed strategy?

Sorry, but the regulations allow a 1 meter dish, which is 39 inches accross!

[Ken_F]

Mike,
It would not be good for them to put HDTV on 121. 121 is fairly low power. The transponders are the same power as 61.5 and 148 transponders. This is enough for 2/3 FCC on 61.5 and 148. This gives them enough room for 2 HDTV channels per transponder.Are you certain the KU FSS transponders at 121 are only 27MHz wide? KU-FSS spectrum used around much of the world (Primestar, Gilat, etc) is 36MHz.

By my math, 8PSK @ 2/3 FEC nets 36.9Mbps usable on a 27Mhz transponder and about 53Mbps on a 36Mhz transponder. Though I still question whether you can use 8PSK at all with a 26" dish for 121, given E*IX's radiated power.

[Bob Haller]

I am ready to upgrade to dish pro but awaiting futher info. I will point to it just for the heck of it even if I cant get many useful channels fromn there. I like the cutting edge on stuff like this. Next months team summit should have some info.

I would add 148 but would need a 70 foot tower:(

[P Smith]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
I have heard from a few people that 121 will only be seen by "Dish Pro" compatable equipment, which I find hard to believe since it has been mentioned that some HD content will be at 121, and the Dish 6000 is not a DishPro compatable piece of equipment. ...
Scott, this is BS - using bandstacking (DPro) or switching (legacy) technology wouldn't change a signal coming to sat_tuner in IRD. Doesn't matter what kind of sat_tuner used - 950...1450 or 950...2050 Mhz, it will select one 27/36 MHz channel one time.

[JohnH]

Originally posted by Ken_F
Mike,
Are you certain the KU FSS transponders at 121 are only 27MHz wide? KU-FSS spectrum used around much of the world (Primestar, Gilat, etc) is 36MHz.

By my math, 8PSK @ 2/3 FEC nets 36.9Mbps usable on a 27Mhz transponder and about 53Mbps on a 36Mhz transponder. Though I still question whether you can use 8PSK at all with a 26" dish for 121, given E*IX's radiated power.

Ken, EchoStar 9 is reported to be in a 32 transponder Ku configuration. Most likely with the same spacing as the DBS birds so it will work with the existing receivers without much difficulty.

The biig question might be whether they went so far as to use Circular instead of the traditional Linear Orthoganol. :)

[JohnH]

P Smith, just suppose they only upgrade DISHPro receivers with the appropriate software.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by P Smith

Scott, this is BS - using bandstacking (DPro) or switching (legacy) technology wouldn't change a signal coming to sat_tuner in IRD. Doesn't matter what kind of sat_tuner used - 950...1450 or 950...2050 Mhz, it will select one 27/36 MHz channel one time.

It has NOTHING to do with that.

I have been told that Non Dishpro recievers do not have enough memory to hold 4 locations (Plus 129 for Philly locals)

Only the Dishpros have enough memory for this and the checkswitch routine would be easy to add on for if you have Dish Pro LNB's.

[Ken_F]

The biig question might be whether they went so far as to use Circular instead of the traditional Linear Orthoganol.I expect they will use circular if they can to provide for less troublesome installations.

[Jacob S]

They will have a one dish solution for 110, 119, 121 I believe and thats why the dish will be 26 inches in size. I imagine it can be much smaller if one were to point only at 121 or wanted to point a seperate dish to that location.

[Darkman]

Jacob - so you think one will be able to get 121 with a regular 24 inch (or even 18 inch) dish? - basically - same as currently

[Mike123abc]

It is very unlikely you will be able to get 121 with a 24 or 18 inch dish. This is because 119 and 123 will cause too much interference. The larger dish allows you to focus on a smaller section of the sky. DBS works with small dishes because the set of frequencies used for DBS is spaced out 9 degrees apart. That is why there is only 3 CONUS slots 101, 110, 119 for DBS yet tons of slots for Ku-FSS every 2 degrees.

[Mike123abc]

I just got to thinking about the mess that Dish is in at the moment. They have all these odd ball LIL station stashed on 61.5 and 148. They have HDTV on 61.5 and 148. Plus the Philly market.

They really have a painful situation. Ideally they would:

1. Move all the LIL off of 61.5 and 148 and put them on 121. This would make the NAB/FCC happier (not ecstatic but happier). That way a single dish solution would work for all LIL and not have the fight for the odd stations. But, doing so would require them to upgrade all the Dish500 dishes to new triple sat dishes.

2. Move HDTV to 110 and take off 61.5 and 148

3. Make 61.5 and 148 International only.

121 could hold enough LIL (since I think Ken_F is right and they are 36MHZ transponders vs DBS 27Mhz (I forgot about that)) for about 500 - 550 channels. This would almost double their LIL capacity to be able to carry almost the entire top 150 markets.

Making 121 LIL only would also solve the legacy receiver problem since the Philly market would not have to have 5 sats but only 4 since there would be nothing on 121 that they could use.

Of course moving all the LIL off the wings to 121 will cause pain and suffering at Dish since they would have to go get new Dishes for everyone. But, I think in the long run it would be less expensive since I would imagine the Three satellite single dish/switch combo would be less than paying the installer to install 2 dishes plus switches.

[Darkman]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
It is very unlikely you will be able to get 121 with a 24 or 18 inch dish. This is because 119 and 123 will cause too much interference. The larger dish allows you to focus on a smaller section of the sky. DBS works with small dishes because the set of frequencies used for DBS is spaced out 9 degrees apart. That is why there is only 3 CONUS slots 101, 110, 119 for DBS yet tons of slots for Ku-FSS every 2 degrees.

I hear you - hehe,
But i am only a Lamer (and was just following/going by Jacob's post) :blush: :lol:
:shrug: :hi:

[P Smith]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski


It has NOTHING to do with that.

I have been told that Non Dishpro recievers do not have enough memory to hold 4 locations (Plus 129 for Philly locals)

Only the Dishpros have enough memory for this and the checkswitch routine would be easy to add on for if you have Dish Pro LNB's.
Sorry Scott, they tell you another BS - all new version FW ( exclude Baker series and 721 - no info ) recently increased a limit for number of transponders from 107 to 150, after that 129 sat cames up. I don't think it will be a problem find another 20 [bytes] x32 [transponders at 121 sat] x 2 [tables] = additional 1280 _bytes_(!) for cover new set of tpn.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The download the sat is not the problem, the problem is the room needed to download the full channel map and guide.

Hey I don't want to upgrade all my stuff to dishpro eaither. And remember none of this is confirmed, just some rumblings I have heard and a few others such as Bill R have heard too.

Let's hope we get some real answers soon.

[P Smith]

Third time mistaken ;) - no one IRD keep full list of channels, it's based on your subscription plus a few internal channels, like EPG.
And it was discovered before: old box have room for 700 channels, new - for 750.
See - nobody have such wide subscription for overload the table.
Regarding EPG - never the size was a problem: PVRs keep it on disk, other IRDs use only relevant part.

[Jacob S]

Well if you cannot get 121 with an 18 inch dish because of how close it is to 119 then we are in for some HUGE problems and Dish is stupid because then the dishes at 119 that are 18 inches are not going to work either and not even the dish 500's because it would be the same issue for 119, am I wrong? Or does this have to do with the different signal strength for 121? I thought 121 was going to be a more powerful satellite, not a weaker one, in which one should be able to use a 15 inch dish to get it in just as good as an 18 inch dish at 119, or something similar to that affect.

[JohnH]

Jacob S, 121 is in a different frequency band than 119 and 110, so no problem with existing setups.

The smaller dish reference may have been for the Ka Band of 121.

[Cheyenne]

No need to upgrade to DishPro equipment as others have indicated here. Customers (Direct and Dish) simply need to select and purchase/subscribe to service they want to view.
What's the problem ??

[Frapp]

Am I wrong here or would a 121 look angle be very hard for many customers to hit ?

I know it would be impossible for me :confused:

[Scott Greczkowski]

If you can hit 119 you should have no problem with 121. Infact I am almost positive that if you put the correct LNB in the 119 slot you would still get 121, luckly they are on a different band. :)

[JohnH]

Well Scott, You probably would get more signal from Anik E1 at 118.7w.then from EchoStar 9.

[Jacob S]

So I assume that the new satellite going in at 121 is going to be a lower powered satellite rather than a higher powered one if a bigger dish is needed or is it that its a higher powered satellite being so close to 119 that it has to have a bigger dish to focus, but if one needs to only focus in on the 121 itself a smaller dish would work? If it was the same type of frequency then would the closeness of 119 not matter?

[Darkman]

I guess if/when 121 becomes operational, they would have to send new software version to all the IRD models out there, to include 121 sat on the Install Menu...
Wouldn't they...

[JohnH]

Originally posted by Jacob S
So I assume that the new satellite going in at 121 is going to be a lower powered satellite rather than a higher powered one if a bigger dish is needed or is it that its a higher powered satellite being so close to 119 that it has to have a bigger dish to focus, but if one needs to only focus in on the 121 itself a smaller dish would work? If it was the same type of frequency then would the closeness of 119 not matter?

The reason a larger dish would be required is to focus more tightly because of satellites at 118.7w(Anik E1) and 123w(Galxay 10r). These satellites are only 2 degrees away and in the same frequency band.

[Chris Freeland]

It looks like I will be getting the new SuperDish, since Chattanooga is now on the official list of 42 new markets E* is adding by years end provided the local stations play nice in re-transmision agreements. Oh Jakob, did you notice that Charleston WV is on that same list, it appears like you guys will get to choose between E* and D* for your locals. It also appears from the latest press realses from E* posted elswhere that you guys who want HD Net and HD Net Movies will need a SuperDish too. I would not be surprised to eventually see all of the HD channels on E* migrate to 121 and the SuperDish for a one dish HD solution.

[Jacob S]

So does that mean any dishes that are pointed to those frequencies would also have to have a larger dish as a result?

[tnsprin]

With the announcement that new HDTV programs including HDNET and HDNET Movies will be carried on 121, many of us will want to carry the satellite on day one. Now what do we need, e.g. i have 2 6000s now and plan to add add 921 (already on order). So what will I need?

[Jacob S]

Sounds like a switching and wiring nightmare with a new slot coming out and dual tuners and all of this. Ouch!

[Jacob S]

Is 121 a lower powered satellite or a higher powered satellite for the tv service? I thought it was going to be low powered. If so then it would not matter would it if it was high power or low power, it would require that size of dish anyways, right?

If it would be a higher powered satellite then a bigger dish in which they are choosing to use would be needed to help combat rain fade more since higher powered satellites have more issues with rainfade. I remember talk about this before where people would be afraid this would be an issue.

[JohnH]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Is 121 a lower powered satellite or a higher powered satellite for the tv service? I thought it was going to be low powered. If so then it would not matter would it if it was high power or low power, it would require that size of dish anyways, right?


You are correct. If it were a lower powered satellite, it would require a bigger bigger dish, though.

[Mike123abc]

121 has 120 watt transponders on it. For reference 61.5 runs 110 watts and some of the 110 transponders were around this range too for a long time (and some might still be). The newer satellites (E6-8) run double power now or 200+ watts.

The larger dish is just to focus in on the smaller segment of the sky because 123 and 117 are close to 121. DBS frequency are 9 degrees apart so a small dish can be used because it does not have to focus on a small area.

[Jacob S]

I knew those Primestar dishes I had saved would come in handy someday. If someone has those Charter anywhere satellites that has a skew on them that would come in really handy. I wonder if someone will come up with something that will allow those with Primestar dishes to put a skew on it. I am sure the Starband satellites has this as well. One could make their own skew on the dish.

Also I am wondering if the lnbf that would be required for the 121 slot could be purchased (I have seen some cheap) for use with this new superdish if one used a Primestar dish or a Dish300, just like the ones I see for sale for those that have other dishes about this same size for use with other systems, or what the type of lnbf that one would have to get for this.

[P Smith]

What they say: "HDNet and HDNet Movies will be available to customers using DISH Network's new SuperDish, unveiled to satellite TV retailers today. The SuperDish, an elliptical 66-centimeter dish, is capable of offering customers access to hundreds of popular DISH Network channels, local channels in new markets, HDTV channels and international programming. The SuperDish is capable of receiving satellite signals from three orbital locations."
So, 110,119,121 will serve by one triple LNBF block.

[Richard King]

So, 110,119,121 will serve by one triple LNBF block.And, since 119 and 121 are so close together, adding a regular LNB to an existing dish probably won't work since the LNB's would have to be pretty much in the same physical space. The only way to do this is with the new combined 3 slot LNB.

[abospaum]

EchoStar to Launch EchoStar IX Satellite in May; New Satellite to Test First Ever Ka-Band Commercial Service

LITTLETON, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 11, 2003--EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq:DISH) announced today that its EchoStar IX satellite is scheduled to launch in May 2003.


The satellite will launch from a floating platform at the equator aboard a Sea Launch rocket.


The EchoStar IX satellite is equipped with one of the first commercial Ka-band spot-beam payloads for use over the United States and will be critical to the development of future generations of Ka-band services. EchoStar's Ka-band portion of the satellite will be used to test, verify and deliver future broadband initiatives for the company. The satellite payload also includes 32 Ku-Band fixed satellite services (FSS) transponders, at approximately 120 watts, that will enhance EchoStar's current U.S. DISH Network satellite TV service, including additional service for Alaska and Hawaii. The satellite will operate at the 121 degree West Longitude orbital location.


With the successful launch of EchoStar IX, constructed by Space Systems/Loral based in Palo Alto, Calif., EchoStar continues to invest in new satellite technologies to expand services for its 8.18 million customers nationwide. EchoStar IX will join EchoStar's current fleet of eight satellites that provide DISH Network customers with hundreds of all-digital television channels, including interactive TV services, sports programming, high definition television and international programming.


An additional C-band payload on the EchoStar IX satellite will be owned and operated by Loral Skynet, a wholly owned subsidiary of Loral Space and Communications (NYSE:LOR), as Telstar 13.

[COLOR=blue]

[abospaum]

From Loral Skynet Magazine- Spring 2002- bottom of page 10:

Comparable in size to Telstar 5, 6, 7 and 12, and slightly more powerful, Telstar 13 carries 58 transponders: 24 37-watt C-band transponders, 32 110-watt Ku-band transponders, and two 120-watt Ka-band transponders. It has a power budget with 10 kilowatts of maximum power at the satellite's end of life.

[abospaum]

Since I also am one of the Philly guys with a 3-sat dish I had a question. One of my original receivers was replaced (a model 2700) with a 301 when they installed the new dish. They said that this receiver wasn't compatible with the SW-64 but they left my 3800 model alone.

I assume that if they are going to make an equipment change then they will do the same thing and eat all of the costs with converting everyone to the new system. The only problem is going to be on the 6000 => 811.

[Jacob S]

I wonder if they are going to take the locals for Philly from 129 to 121 after this new satellite is launched?