VOD 1080p picture size problem

[James Twieg]

I just tried to rent my first Dish VOD 1080p movie (Iron Man). Have 722 Dish HD DVR, HDMI cable and Panasonic Plasma 1080p TV. When movie started. picture on TV screen was about 1/2 the size of the 50" plasma Tv screen and was shifted to upper left corner and movie picture was cut off on all side (not showing full frames)
Called Dish and they could not resolve. They said my TV might me incompatible, not set at 24 frames per second etc? I think they're nuts. All other Dish HD channels and my BluRay DVD player display fine. Any ideas why my VOD 1080p movie size of picture is messed up?

[MrQuestion]

I think they're nuts. All other Dish HD channels and my BluRay DVD player display fine. Any ideas why my VOD 1080p movie size of picture is messed up?

James: Did Dish also tell you that the 722 needed to be direct connected to the TV (no AVR in the middle)? Are you using HDMI? What model of Panasonic is it? When you rented the movie, did a dialogue box pop up after the screen when blank for a number of seconds? I understand that the 722 does a test to determine compatibility with their 1080P signal and will ask you to cancel or confirm the rental after the test is complete. If you fail the test, it will notify you with a dialogue box indicating this to be the case.

I have a separte thread going closely related. (TV fails VOD 1080P Test!!! Why?). You might gleen some useful information from it.

[phrelin]

There is also this 300+ post thread: My 1080P experience on Dish... (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=135329).

[James Twieg]

James: Did Dish also tell you that the 722 needed to be direct connected to the TV (no AVR in the middle)? Are you using HDMI? What model of Panasonic is it? When you rented the movie, did a dialogue box pop up after the screen when blank for a number of seconds? I understand that the 722 does a test to determine compatibility with their 1080P signal and will ask you to cancel or confirm the rental after the test is complete. If you fail the test, it will notify you with a dialogue box indicating this to be the case.

I have a separte thread going closely related. (TV fails VOD 1080P Test!!! Why?). You might gleen some useful information from it.

Reply: Yes, Dish 722 is connected directly to TV with HDMI cable. Panasonic 50" Plasma Model TH-50PZ77U new 1 yr ago. when I rented movie, first got message that my setup was not compatible; that was when I had my 722 hooked to TV with 3 component video cables. Then I cahnged it to direct connect with HDMI, retried to rent movie, got the test and passed the test. When movie started the size of the movie picture was only about half the size of my Tv screen. 722 set at 1080i and 16:9 for last year with no problem. It does not have a 1080p option under HDTV setup for Tv type. Any idea?

[Jason Nipp]

James, 1080p is not a selection under the receiver's output res selection. When a 1080p event is selected, the 722 checks the displays EDID and if it is compatible the receiver will switch the HDMI output to 1080p automatically. If your display is not compatible with 1080p/24 then it should give you an error message asking if you wish to continue at a lower resolution.

[MrQuestion]

When movie started the size of the movie picture was only about half the size of my Tv screen. 722 set at 1080i and 16:9 for last year with no problem. It does not have a 1080p option under HDTV setup for Tv type. Any idea?

I think your 722 HDTV setup is correct (There is no 1080P option available for anyone). Can you zoom Panasonic or put it on some "full screen" option?

[James Twieg]

I think your 722 HDTV setup is correct (There is no 1080P option available for anyone). Can you zoom Panasonic or put it on some "full screen" option?


Zoom, etc only slightly altered the size of the picture (the movie playing on my TV). Basically the size of the picture stayed about 1/2 the size of my 50" plasma Tv screen. Very confusing to me why this movie picture size issue persists.

[James Twieg]

James, 1080p is not a selection under the receiver's output res selection. When a 1080p event is selected, the 722 checks the displays EDID and if it is compatible the receiver will switch the HDMI output to 1080p automatically. If your display is not compatible with 1080p/24 then it should give you an error message asking if you wish to continue at a lower resolution.

After I connected the 722 Dish HD receiver direct to TV with HDMI cable, I did not get any error message that my display was not compatible with the VOD 1080p movie. When the movie started however, the size of the movie picture was about 1/2 the size of my 50" TV, shifted to the upper left coorner of my TV screen and movie picture itself was cut off on at least 3 sides. Why size of movie picture is so messed up is a complete mystery. All other Dish HD channels and my BluRay movies display fine.

[BattleZone]

Reply: Yes, Dish 722 is connected directly to TV with HDMI cable. Panasonic 50" Plasma Model TH-50PZ77U new 1 yr ago. when I rented movie, first got message that my setup was not compatible; that was when I had my 722 hooked to TV with 3 component video cables. Then I cahnged it to direct connect with HDMI, retried to rent movie, got the test and passed the test. When movie started the size of the movie picture was only about half the size of my Tv screen. 722 set at 1080i and 16:9 for last year with no problem. It does not have a 1080p option under HDTV setup for Tv type. Any idea?

Your TV does not support 1080/24p input signals. Panasonic didn't support these until this year's (2008) models, and only the higher-end ones at that.

Here's a big thread on your TV from AVSForum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=904003

[James Twieg]

Your TV does not support 1080/24p input signals. Panasonic didn't support these until this year's (2008) models, and only the higher-end ones at that.

Here's a big thread on your TV from AVSForum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=904003

One question if I can.... I spoke with Dish Network twice and their tech support people could not tell me what you did that my TV does not work with 1080p/24.
If I can view the VOD 1080p movie fine from DIsh Network, but the size of the picture is just small (about 1/2 the size of my TV screen) is is likely explained by the fact that my TV does not accept 1080p/24. Dish said if my TV passed it's test when I tried to rent the movie (and my TV passed their test) Dish said the movie should display ok on my TV but it doesn't.

[James Long]

During the test did you see a full screen picture and acknowledge the test?
If so, you need to contact DISH and let them know more about your setup.
The test should be valid ... if it isn't, DISH needs to know.

[BattleZone]

One question if I can.... I spoke with Dish Network twice and their tech support people could not tell me what you did that my TV does not work with 1080p/24.

That's no surprise; CSRs already have to know way too much information. They certainly can't be expected to know the specs of every HDTV on the market, including arcane information like 1080/24p support.

I happen to know a few good places to look (AVSForum being one of them, for sure!), and I don't have to be constantly be taking customer calls while having my call times monitored.

If I can view the VOD 1080p movie fine from DIsh Network, but the size of the picture is just small (about 1/2 the size of my TV screen) is is likely explained by the fact that my TV does not accept 1080p/24. Dish said if my TV passed it's test when I tried to rent the movie (and my TV passed their test) Dish said the movie should display ok on my TV but it doesn't.

Dish's detection routines are far from 100% accurate right now, and these types of HDMI problems have caused lots of issues industry-wide. It took both DirecTV and Dish a while to sort out their HDMI issues when the first HD boxes with HDMI were released, and both have had issues rolling out 1080/24p capabilities. Both the XBox360 and the PS3 had early HDMI issues. The specs for HDMI were written poorly, and different companies have made different choices when implementing them, which can cause compatibility problems. It's all supposed to be automatic and seamless, but very often, that's not the case.

Anyway, given that your TV isn't compatible with 1080/24p signals, you'll have to let the receiver convert to 1080/60i, which will work for your TV.

[James Twieg]

During the test did you see a full screen picture and acknowledge the test?
If so, you need to contact DISH and let them know more about your setup.
The test should be valid ... if it isn't, DISH needs to know.

During the test I did not see any picture. I think the Dish test said that the screen was going to go blank for about 15 seconds and that is exactly what happened. I did not see any picture on the screen during the test.

[BattleZone]

That's a failed test; had your TV supported 1080/24p input signals, you'd have seen a message that said something like "1080p. If you can read this, click OK to accept this resolution." If you don't give it any input, after 15 seconds it will switch back to 1080i (or whatever you have the receiver set to) and should display a "failed" message.

It sounds like there was just some confusion/misinformation from the CSR. In your case, the receiver is correct in "failing" the test.

[James Long]

So ... at the end of the test you should have seen the 994 "failed" message offering the movie at the reduced resolution:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/images/Tech/Error/994_gandalf.jpg (http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/error/622/994.shtml)

What was on your screen during the attempted test was this popup:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/images/Tech/Error/992_gandalf.jpg (http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/error/622/992.shtml)

Are you saying that your screen went blank (during the 992 popup you didn't see) and you said yes to the 994 popup and got the small scaled screen? Or did you never see the 994 popup?

[James Twieg]

So ... at the end of the test you should have seen the 994 "failed" message offering the movie at the reduced resolution:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/images/Tech/Error/994_gandalf.jpg (http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/error/622/994.shtml)

What was on your screen during the attempted test was this popup:
http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/images/Tech/Error/992_gandalf.jpg (http://tech.dishnetwork.com/departmental_content/TechPortal/content/tech/error/622/992.shtml)

Are you saying that your screen went blank (during the 992 popup you didn't see) and you said yes to the 994 popup and got the small scaled screen? Or did you never see the 994 popup?

When I first tried to rent VOD 1080p movie, I had my Dish receiver connected to TV with 3 component video cables. After it did the test, I got the 994 window saying my TV's resolution was not compatible. Then I hooked up my TV directly to the Dish 722 receiver using an HDMI cable. I then retried to rent the VOD 1080p movie. The screen went black buring the test, I did not see any picture and the 994 window did not come on. It just came back and asked me if I wanted to rent or start the movie. Someone else said this was a "failed" test. Anyway, when the movie started the size of the movie was only about 1/2 of my TV screen.

[MrQuestion]

I just tried to rent my first Dish VOD 1080p movie (Iron Man). Have 722 Dish HD DVR, HDMI cable and Panasonic Plasma 1080p TV. When movie started. picture on TV screen was about 1/2 the size of the 50" plasma Tv screen and was shifted to upper left corner and movie picture was cut off on all side (not showing full frames)
Called Dish and they could not resolve. They said my TV might me incompatible, not set at 24 frames per second etc? I think they're nuts. All other Dish HD channels and my BluRay DVD player display fine. Any ideas why my VOD 1080p movie size of picture is messed up?

Yesterday, I was reading a thread regarding fixes implemented with the 6.13 firmware upgrade to the 722. It mentioned something about fixing a problem with pictures being displayed in the upper left hand corner and 1080P implementation.

Other than the above references thread, I've never heard of an image being displayed in the in a corner like you discribe. I wonder if there is a connection. Here is a link to the release notes: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=137926

[Dunkin1454]

I had the same issue you described James. I also have a newer Panasonic Plasma 58". I called tech support and first off the tech had no clue that Dish even had 1080P VOD. Sccondly he had never heard of this problem but sent a ticket to the next level. After some testing we were unable to fix the problem and he credited my account. I hope we can identify the issue so we can get it resolved.

[BattleZone]

Once again, it needs to be stated that in order for 1080p VOD to work, your HDTV MUST support 1080/24p input signals, which are not the same as 1080/60p signals. Nearly all TVs made before 2007 do NOT support 1080/24p input signals, and there are still TVs made today that don't. Panasonic didn't add 1080/24p support until their 2008 models.

Unless your TV supports 1080/24p input signals, a "fail" on the test is CORRECT, and there's nothing to fix.

Having said that, yes, it is known that the 622/722s are not always able to identify TVs that actually can do 1080/24p, and they're working on the problem.

[reddice]

Why can't they just show it 1080/60p anyway. More frames means less flicker. 24p must flicker bad.

[James Long]

What frame rate was it shot in? 24p matches (closely) the film rate. How many frames per frame are wasted on 60p? Showing one frame three times then one frame two times then one frame three times etc seems like a way to waste bandwidth and introduce problems ... not eliminate them.

[MrQuestion]

Why can't they just show it 1080/60p anyway. More frames means less flicker. 24p must flicker bad.

If your TV only displayed 24 frames per second, it would indeed flicker badly. Fortunately, modern TV's can do tricks like take the 24fps signal and tripple it to 72 frames per second.