View Full Version : In the middle of 2 local markets
pixmixer
11-19-08, 11:55 AM
I live in an area of Georgia which places me practically exactly between the Atlanta and Greenville SC. When I did a search to get transmitter locations for the two markets and entered my long/lat info, I found that I am within 1 to 4 mile of being exactly halfway between. If I lived 1 mile south, which would put me in a different county, I would get the Atlanta market, but where I live it's Greenville. Do any of you know any way to get around this? I am looking to get HD access installed, but I figure that when I do that I'll wind up with the Greenville again.
Thanks
The only option you have is OTA. Deliberately falsifying information to DirecTV is in violation of your customer agreement.
I just moved to a different county, and different dma. I used movers connection and d* hasn't changed my local channels. I am waiting for them to realize the mistake but I am used to my bay area locals and don't like the sacromento/modesto locals as much, so I am hoping they stay for now. I still work in the bay area so it is nice to still get the locals from there.
cweave02
11-19-08, 02:38 PM
I have the exact problem, and no, I have found no way around it. I hate getting SC and NC news, weather, etc. when live in GA. It is not fair - I am not going to drive 3 hours to Asheville or Greenville to shop when Atlanta is two hours away.
Asking for waivers is the only way, but so far I have not been able to get any.
Welcome to DBS Talk - BTW, I have kept local cable just so that I can get Atlanta and Toccoa news! HD is well worth the expense with D* even if it comes out of NC and SC.
curt8403
11-19-08, 03:14 PM
I have the exact problem, and no, I have found no way around it. I hate getting SC and NC news, weather, etc. when live in GA. It is not fair - I am not going to drive 3 hours to Asheville or Greenville to shop when Atlanta is two hours away.
Asking for waivers is the only way, but so far I have not been able to get any.
Welcome to DBS Talk - BTW, I have kept local cable just so that I can get Atlanta and Toccoa news! HD is well worth the expense with D* even if it comes out of NC and SC.
uhm uhm uhm. a waiver will not get you neighboring markets, if you get any local stations, it will get ya null. if ya have no hd locals it will get ya NY hd
dishrich
11-19-08, 03:45 PM
I am looking to get HD access installed, but I figure that when I do that I'll wind up with the Greenville again.
Thanks
Get it installed then "move" to the Atlanta DMA - the search function is your friend... ;)
Malibu13
11-19-08, 06:02 PM
Get it installed then "move" to the Atlanta DMA - the search function is your friend... ;)
I,m sure you meant "move" as in physically moving to the Atlanta DMA which would not be in violation of the
DirecTV agreement?
SDizzle
11-19-08, 06:28 PM
I live in an area of Georgia which places me practically exactly between the Atlanta and Greenville SC. When I did a search to get transmitter locations for the two markets and entered my long/lat info, I found that I am within 1 to 4 mile of being exactly halfway between. If I lived 1 mile south, which would put me in a different county, I would get the Atlanta market, but where I live it's Greenville. Do any of you know any way to get around this? I am looking to get HD access installed, but I figure that when I do that I'll wind up with the Greenville again.
Thanks
How about getting the locals that you are supposed to get from D*, and run an OTA line to your DVRs and have the best of both?!?
How about getting the locals that you are supposed to get from D*, and run an OTA line to your DVRs and have the best of both?!?
+1, and it's sad it took this long to be mentioned.
SDizzle
11-19-08, 07:47 PM
+1, and it's sad it took this long to be mentioned.
:lol: You did mention it in post #2, but I wasn't sure the OP knew he could migrate the OTA into his DVR...:lol:
FlBillsfan
11-19-08, 09:45 PM
I am in Sarasota county actually closer to Ft Myers than Tampa, but according to Direct TV I am in the Tampa market. A mile down the road & I would be in Charlotte county & Ft Myers market. I am able to pick up Ft Myers OTA so I do get both. Comcast cable does provide both to their customers.
Jon Ellis
11-19-08, 10:42 PM
Just so everyone's clear, there's no such thing as being in the "middle" of two markets. Every location is assigned to one and only one market. Markets are assigned based on which market people in the county watch the most.
joe diamond
11-19-08, 11:03 PM
Just so everyone's clear, there's no such thing as being in the "middle" of two markets. Every location is assigned to one and only one market. Markets are assigned based on which market people in the county watch the most.
Jon,
As you correctly stated, markets are assigned, and that is the problem. I don't know how to fix it but if you fly over the land there are no lines marking the edges of the markets. Customers all have different preferences, like school closings being announced on some specific channel or HS sports coverage.
OTA looks like a solution to this in some FLAT areas. Mountains got problems.
Any news on how the spot beam technology can be more customer friendly?
Joe
Just so everyone's clear, there's no such thing as being in the "middle" of two markets. Every location is assigned to one and only one market. Markets are assigned based on which market people in the county watch the most.
Thats not completely true. Yes we are assigned to one DMA but as I found out being so close to another DMA I had to get waivers signed off on by both of the DMA's so in this case it appears that I am not completely assigned to just one DMA. It was a pain in the butt I can tell you that. I have spent alot of time on the phone with alot of people from DirecTV, to the local affiliates GM's, to the FCC, to supposedly the company that sets the DMA markets, etc. In the end I was granted CW, PBS, ABC, & NBC but no CBS or FOX.
Thats not really acceptable for me so I see a antenna in the near future getting me the locals for free.
Mike Bertelson
11-20-08, 04:43 AM
I live in an area of Georgia which places me practically exactly between the Atlanta and Greenville SC. When I did a search to get transmitter locations for the two markets and entered my long/lat info, I found that I am within 1 to 4 mile of being exactly halfway between. If I lived 1 mile south, which would put me in a different county, I would get the Atlanta market, but where I live it's Greenville. Do any of you know any way to get around this? I am looking to get HD access installed, but I figure that when I do that I'll wind up with the Greenville again.
Thanks
Welcome to DBSTalk. :welcome_s
My brother-in-law lives in south NJ and IIRC, DirecTV gave him a choice between NY & Philly for his locals. I take it you weren't offered that option? Can't hurt to ask. :)
However, if you have a HR20 you can use and antenna to OTA(off the air) from both markets. If you have the HR21/22/23 you can get the AM21 which will connect to your DVR to receive OTA signals.
What receiver do you have?
Mike
I live right on the border of Miami/Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm Beach, though technically in the West Palm Beach market, even though everything I do is in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale.
I had to put up the antenna and I have to say I now have the best of both. I can view all the stations in my area. Its the best way to go.
captain_video
11-20-08, 05:30 AM
The topic of this thread is one of the many reasons why I switched to FIOS from DirecTV. I use to get all of my locals in mpeg2 from DirecTV but only four in mpeg4. I also live between two markets (DC and Baltimore) but DirecTV will only give me one of them, and then only a partial list of available locals. There are a lot of people that live in my area but work in DC. We're assigned to the Baltimore market due to our zip code.
Personally, I think we should be able to pick our own local market instead of letting some obscure set of ancient guidelines do it for us. People commute to work and don't always shop in the same market they reside in. At the very least, DirecTV should be allowed to provide additional local markets to individual households if that market is within your spot beam. I expect there would be an additional cost involved but I'm sure most subscribers wouldn't mind paying it if they could receive the locals they actually want to watch. Unfortunately, I believe this decision is out of DirecTV's jurisidiction so it's just something on many people's wishlist that will probably never happen.
Mike Bertelson
11-20-08, 05:48 AM
The topic of this thread is one of the many reasons why I switched to FIOS from DirecTV. I use to get all of my locals in mpeg2 from DirecTV but only four in mpeg4. I also live between two markets (DC and Baltimore) but DirecTV will only give me one of them, and then only a partial list of available locals. There are a lot of people that live in my area but work in DC. We're assigned to the Baltimore market due to our zip code.
Personally, I think we should be able to pick our own local market instead of letting some obscure set of ancient guidelines do it for us. People commute to work and don't always shop in the same market they reside in. At the very least, DirecTV should be allowed to provide additional local markets to individual households if that market is within your spot beam. I expect there would be an additional cost involved but I'm sure most subscribers wouldn't mind paying it if they could receive the locals they actually want to watch. Unfortunately, I believe this decision is out of DirecTV's jurisidiction so it's just something on many people's wishlist that will probably never happen.
I wonder how it works.
I say this because my brother-in-law lives in Ocean County NJ, which is in the NY DMA. However, when he got DirecTV (two years ago) he was given a choice of NY or Philadelphia locals and he chose the Philly. His kids/wife had a cow because they had NY locals with cable and now everything was different. The big argument, if you can believe it, was that all the court shows were in different time slots and on different channels. :rolleyes:
He said he chose when he placed the order. My sister-in-law tried to get the installer to change it when he got there but he wouldn't...don't know why.
Mike
all you need to do is put the "correct " zip code with your 'local address".. this is not moving in anyway shape or form.. this is the Bermuda triangle.. no one is gaining or losing anything here..
Satsince1978
11-20-08, 07:48 AM
I am 60 miles east of Chicago and 200 miles west of Detroit. DirecTV gave me Detroit Sports when I first signed up. Called and CSR said that is what I am supposed to get. Had to call about 20 times and over a period of several months! I finally got someone who understood what I was talking about and got me switched to CSN Chicago!
Keep calling them, Don't give up!
bonscott87
11-20-08, 12:24 PM
You guys do realize that DirecTV has nothing to do with what market you're in, right? Nielsen decides what market (DMA) you are in each year. DirecTV simply then follows the FCC rules by giving you the locals for your DMA. It doesn't matter if you identify yourself with a different DMA. If you have a beef with it then take it up with the FCC and Nielsen.
As for what RSN you get, that is up to the RSN and what zip codes they claim as their local market *and* what teams claim your zip code as their local market. For example, I live pretty much halfway between Chicago and Detroit. FSN Detroit is our main RSN but we also get CSN Chicago for the Bulls and Blackhawks since they also claim my zip code. Again, DirecTV just gives you what you are supposed to get according to the zip code database. And you can check what DMA and what RSNs you qualify for right on DirecTV's web site. If you feel there is an error then you can contact the RSN and/or the team to see what zip codes they claim and if DirecTV is wrong then have them contact DirecTV to correct it.
joe diamond
11-20-08, 01:10 PM
You guys do realize that DirecTV has nothing to do with what market you're in, right? Nielsen decides what market (DMA) you are in each year. DirecTV simply then follows the FCC rules by giving you the locals for your DMA. It doesn't matter if you identify yourself with a different DMA. If you have a beef with it then take it up with the FCC and Nielsen.
As for what RSN you get, that is up to the RSN and what zip codes they claim as their local market *and* what teams claim your zip code as their local market. For example, I live pretty much halfway between Chicago and Detroit. FSN Detroit is our main RSN but we also get CSN Chicago for the Bulls and Blackhawks since they also claim my zip code. Again, DirecTV just gives you what you are supposed to get according to the zip code database. And you can check what DMA and what RSNs you qualify for right on DirecTV's web site. If you feel there is an error then you can contact the RSN and/or the team to see what zip codes they claim and if DirecTV is wrong then have them contact DirecTV to correct it.
We are back where we started,
My thought was that if there was enough interest is choosing locals DTV has enough horse power to find the right FCC office or wherever it is necessary to make a change. Where do you think the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (OTARD) came from? That is the one about where one meter dishes can go. Someone steered every word of that thing and I bet it wasn't cable companies or TV stations.
Joe
puffnstuff
11-20-08, 01:40 PM
I wonder how it works.
I say this because my brother-in-law lives in Ocean County NJ, which is in the NY DMA. However, when he got DirecTV (two years ago) he was given a choice of NY or Philadelphia locals and he chose the Philly. His kids/wife had a cow because they had NY locals with cable and now everything was different. The big argument, if you can believe it, was that all the court shows were in different time slots and on different channels. :rolleyes:
He said he chose when he placed the order. My sister-in-law tried to get the installer to change it when he got there but he wouldn't...don't know why.
Mike
Before everytime I would activate a reciever I would get asked if I wanted DC or Baltimore locals . They stopped a little over 2 years ago for me . What ever happened to sig. viewed ?
Terry K
11-20-08, 01:46 PM
There are a few counties in the US that are split. Kern in California is one. West Kern gets Bakersfield, East Kern gets LA locals. If I lived there I know which I would want.
scott72
11-20-08, 01:48 PM
Get it installed then "move" to the Atlanta DMA - the search function is your friend... ;)
Yes move. Get to know your local provider a little bit and suggest to them you'd like to move..;) Of course you still have to be in the spot beam or it won't matter, so unless you're fairly close to the market you want, don't bother.
scott72
11-20-08, 01:49 PM
+1, and it's sad it took this long to be mentioned.
Not everyone lives in an area where OTA is possible. Not sure about the OP's status, but this may be the case..
scott72
11-20-08, 01:53 PM
Welcome to DBSTalk. :welcome_s
My brother-in-law lives in south NJ and IIRC, DirecTV gave him a choice between NY & Philly for his locals. I take it you weren't offered that option? Can't hurt to ask. :)
Exactly what happened to me. I'm given the choice of the CR/Waterloo market, or the LaCrosse, Wi market since the only thing that separates me from the Wis market in the Miss. River. I just switched to the LaCrosse market because I was having issues getting Packer and Brewer games without spending hundreds on sports packages. Not too mention that market just went MPEG4 HD. :D
scott72
11-20-08, 01:59 PM
As for what RSN you get, that is up to the RSN and what zip codes they claim as their local market *and* what teams claim your zip code as their local market. For
Not entirely true. I live in NE Iowa and the Brewers claim all of Iowa as their area, yet I was forced to buy the EI package to see Brewer games. From what you're saying I should of gotten Brewer games in the clear since they claim my DMA, but I didn't. It's not that cut and dried. Don't ask me how it's suppose to work because I've driven myself crazy trying to figure it out.
bonscott87
11-20-08, 04:04 PM
Not entirely true. I live in NE Iowa and the Brewers claim all of Iowa as their area, yet I was forced to buy the EI package to see Brewer games. From what you're saying I should of gotten Brewer games in the clear since they claim my DMA, but I didn't. It's not that cut and dried. Don't ask me how it's suppose to work because I've driven myself crazy trying to figure it out.
Well, the MLB is so screwed up in what zip codes they claim and so outdated that the blackouts are messed up beyond belief. I've seen cases, probably like yours, were there might be a zip code not authorized surrounded by miles and miles of zip codes that are. The MLB system needs to be blown up and redone so bad, and the commish now sees this as a problem. Unfortunately the owners are still living in the 60s and don't want to change. But we the viewer of course suffer in the meantime while they get their act together.
bonscott87
11-20-08, 04:07 PM
We are back where we started,
My thought was that if there was enough interest is choosing locals DTV has enough horse power to find the right FCC office or wherever it is necessary to make a change. Where do you think the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (OTARD) came from? That is the one about where one meter dishes can go. Someone steered every word of that thing and I bet it wasn't cable companies or TV stations.
Joe
DirecTv has no horsepower in this. The NAB will sue them so fast (and have) they won't know what happened. Dish has already lost a couple lawsuits on this already and it's why DirecTV is getting aggressive with taking away DNS stations from people that no longer qualify.
The NAB holds all the cards and the right wallets in Washington.
FlBillsfan
11-20-08, 04:17 PM
You guys do realize that DirecTV has nothing to do with what market you're in, right? Nielsen decides what market (DMA) you are in each year. DirecTV simply then follows the FCC rules by giving you the locals for your DMA. It doesn't matter if you identify yourself with a different DMA. If you have a beef with it then take it up with the FCC and Nielsen.
As for what RSN you get, that is up to the RSN and what zip codes they claim as their local market *and* what teams claim your zip code as their local market. For example, I live pretty much halfway between Chicago and Detroit. FSN Detroit is our main RSN but we also get CSN Chicago for the Bulls and Blackhawks since they also claim my zip code. Again, DirecTV just gives you what you are supposed to get according to the zip code database. And you can check what DMA and what RSNs you qualify for right on DirecTV's web site. If you feel there is an error then you can contact the RSN and/or the team to see what zip codes they claim and if DirecTV is wrong then have them contact DirecTV to correct it.
Why is it Comcast Cable provides BOTH the Tampa & Ft. Myers markets to their customers in this area & Direct TV can only provide one? The one that is further away at that. That is not right.
The rules are vastly different for cable than what they are for satellite.
scott72
11-20-08, 08:10 PM
Well, the MLB is so screwed up in what zip codes they claim and so outdated that the blackouts are messed up beyond belief. I've seen cases, probably like yours, were there might be a zip code not authorized surrounded by miles and miles of zip codes that are.
That's exactly how mine is. People all around me get the Brewers in the clear, but there's a little swath that goes though my area that doesn't. Heck people in western Iowa get them in the clear, and me in northeastern Iowa sum 200 miles closer to Milwaukee than them, has to purchase EI to get the games. Makes a lot of sense no?
scott72
11-20-08, 08:15 PM
Why is it Comcast Cable provides BOTH the Tampa & Ft. Myers markets to their customers in this area & Direct TV can only provide one? The one that is further away at that. That is not right.
Good question as it was the same way when I was with cable. I received channels in both markets around me and it wasn't just all Iowa channels or all Wisconsin channels. I guessing for whatever reason cable doesn't have to follow the rules that Sat TV does..
bonscott87
11-20-08, 08:20 PM
Why is it Comcast Cable provides BOTH the Tampa & Ft. Myers markets to their customers in this area & Direct TV can only provide one? The one that is further away at that. That is not right.
As Beavis said, the rules for cable as set down by the government are very different then those for Satellite. Cable could have a Fox station from 4 markets if they wanted to. But by law satellite is only allowed to offer your home market and no others. And you can thank the cable lobby for getting congress to pass such a law.
As you may have figured out by now, the law in these cases doesn't need to make sense, it's all about who pays off congress the most.
You guys do realize that DirecTV has nothing to do with what market you're in, right? Nielsen decides what market (DMA) you are in each year. DirecTV simply then follows the FCC rules by giving you the locals for your DMA. It doesn't matter if you identify yourself with a different DMA. If you have a beef with it then take it up with the FCC and Nielsen.
Don't expect any help from the FCC. When I called them a couple months ago for help they had no clue about anything. I was referred to a company similar to Neilson I think and they were no help either. It was like chasing a ghost. No one could really steer me in the right direction. Everyone eas pointing the finger at someone else including the local affiliates. Its really frustrating for people that need locals that are not carried by their carrier.
Jon Ellis
11-21-08, 01:56 AM
Thats not completely true. Yes we are assigned to one DMA but as I found out being so close to another DMA I had to get waivers signed off on by both of the DMA's so in this case it appears that I am not completely assigned to just one DMA.
Waivers deal with coverage areas, not DMA's. If you want ABC DNS and you are theoretically in the grade B coverage area of any ABC affiliate, you need a waiver from them whether or not you are in their DMA. You needed waivers from two markets because you are theoretically in the grade B contour of both stations.
Waivers deal with coverage areas, not DMA's. If you want ABC DNS and you are theoretically in the grade B coverage area of any ABC affiliate, you need a waiver from them whether or not you are in their DMA. You needed waivers from two markets because you are theoretically in the grade B contour of both stations.
That being said all I really want is an option for which locals I want. Five minutes up the road in the same zip code but a different county they get the Tulsa DMA market and D* does offer their locals but I live in Ottawa County and they are Joplin DMA which D* seems to be uninterested in adding anytime soon. If I was given a choice I would rather have Tulsa anyways but I have no options.
bonscott87
11-21-08, 09:39 AM
Don't expect any help from the FCC.
Of course you won't.
bonscott87
11-21-08, 09:41 AM
That being said all I really want is an option for which locals I want. Five minutes up the road in the same zip code but a different county they get the Tulsa DMA market and D* does offer their locals but I live in Ottawa County and they are Joplin DMA which D* seems to be uninterested in adding anytime soon. If I was given a choice I would rather have Tulsa anyways but I have no options.
I think we all agree with you, sure, we'd all like that option. But unless you have millions of dollars to lobby congress with and get the NAB to back down the law isn't going to change. The 1996 law was the first real update to it going back to 1932. :eek2:
Jon Ellis
11-21-08, 11:27 PM
That being said all I really want is an option for which locals I want. Five minutes up the road in the same zip code but a different county they get the Tulsa DMA market and D* does offer their locals but I live in Ottawa County and they are Joplin DMA which D* seems to be uninterested in adding anytime soon. If I was given a choice I would rather have Tulsa anyways but I have no options.
In that case you need to write your congressman and senators to request a change to the law. :)
pixmixer
11-24-08, 07:40 AM
Looks like Congress & Senate may be the best route for a long term and legal solution. With digital broadcast satellite being relatively young, there are some refinements that need to be made. Having just gone through an election, it doesn't make sense for me to watch political debates for which I do not vote. Not to mention those tiresome political ads for candidates that aren't on my ballot. Congressmen and Senators might be interested to know that their political ads do not completely reach their constituency.
newsposter
11-25-08, 07:25 PM
This thread is interesting. I dont have my smalltown cable co anymore but i got Lancaster, Philly and Allentown local stations when I had them. however with directv they dont give out the Lancaster stations but do give me 2 NJ stations.
it was nice having 2 fox's, 2 nbc's etc but i'd never go back to cable for that
Remember the cities locals you get is based on your service address not billing address.
If you take you dish and receiver with you to Grandma's house so you can watch the big game while you are there - you are supposed to call DirecTV with Grandma's address since that is your service address at that time.
Don't forget to change it back when you get home or you will get stuck with the locals where Grandma lives.
Draconis
11-25-08, 09:13 PM
You may find this interesting reading.
The FCC's Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act Page (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/shva)
marknga
11-26-08, 05:38 AM
My parents live in Franklin County and are stuck watching the Greenville Locals. What they really don't like about that is that they get hardly any Georgia news just the S C news. But if they go a few miles to a friends house he gets the Atlanta locals. Just frustrating.
The OTA signal isn't that great but that is there only option right now for the Atlanta locals.
Happy Thanksgiving !
Mark
cweave02
11-26-08, 06:40 AM
My parents live in Franklin County and are stuck watching the Greenville Locals. What they really don't like about that is that they get hardly any Georgia news just the S C news. But if they go a few miles to a friends house he gets the Atlanta locals. Just frustrating.
The OTA signal isn't that great but that is there only option right now for the Atlanta locals.
Happy Thanksgiving !
Mark
I am in Elbert County - same problem. A friend (whose name will remain vacant to protect the guilty) who also lives in Elbert Co uses her son's "service" address in Gwinnett Co and gets the Atl locals. "Illegal?" No - making us watch SC and NC channels is what is criminal!
cweave02
11-26-08, 07:01 AM
You may find this interesting reading.
The FCC's Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act Page (http://www.fcc.gov/mb/shva)
The title of the lact, to me, is very misleading. It has nothing to do with the improvement for the lot of home viewers - just protectionism and revenue for the local stations, cable, and sattelite providers. The only thing that would improve our home situations is to get rid of the arbitrary (in some cases) "local market" designations.
I tihnk of this Act every time WLOS - ABC Asheville shows its extensive list of "translators" which are spread out over 4 states, making it a "local" station for all of us.
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