Next war - Defense vs. State

[RichW]

Well ol' Newt Gigrich has fired the first shot and made public what many said was a private war betweem the Pentagon and the State Dept. Newt is now one of Rumsfelds lackeys and today, in front of cheering neocons, blasted the State Department over its handling of Iraq and Syria. It will be interesting to see how GWB handles this rift. If the Rumsfeld/Cheney camp prevails, it may dead-end Colin Powell's political career.

[Rick_EE]

There has been a rift since day one. It is not like this is news.

Colin Powell personally doesn't have to worry. I actually think it enhances his status. He will be looked upon as a voice of reason.

Powell himself is bigger than SecState. People knew him before he took the job and if he quits after the term, very few will change their opinions of him. What are his ambitions after this? The Republicans begged him to run for president, and he refused. He seemed to be happy with his volunteer work. That is what he will probably go back to when this is all over.

[gcutler]

If it obvious that Powell has disagreed on the policies, but like a loyal member of the administration kept his disagreement to the Cabinet or Situation room (Show a united front for the public). Well good old Newty had to throw fuel on the fire. It looks like Rumsfeld had won the internal battle, unless Knewt is a friend of Powell (showing the world that Powell disagrees, but I don't think he is a friend of Powell), what would be gained. Unless Newty wanted to take victory one step further rub it in and try to make the rift a bigger issue and work to get Powell forced out???

[Bogy]

Powell, unfortunately, could never be nominated as the Republican candidate for President, not unless his association with the Bush administration has caused him to fundamentally change some of his positions (as Daddy Bush changed some fundamental positions because of his relationship with Reagan). It's to bad, because if he did run I would be able to vote for a Republican candidate for president again. And that's the reason why he will never pass the hard right wings litmus test. :(

[RichW]

I would love to see a Jack Kemp & Colin Powell ticket (in any order). Both are practical, but patriotic: conservative, but supporting civil rights and affirmative action; and have the energy and charisma to inspire America much like Jack Kennedy did in 1960.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by RichW
I would love to see a Jack Kemp & Colin Powell ticket (in any order). Both are practical, but patriotic: conservative, but supporting civil rights and affirmative action; and have the energy and charisma to inspire America much like Jack Kennedy did in 1960.

But are either of them Right enough to satisfy the most right wing of the party? I think they might be considered centrist or tooo Left within the party. But I bet they would get alof of cross over democratic votes???

[waydwolf]

Originally posted by RichW
I would love to see a Jack Kemp & Colin Powell ticket (in any order). Both are practical, but patriotic: conservative, but supporting civil rights and affirmative action; and have the energy and charisma to inspire America much like Jack Kennedy did in 1960.

:bang

    Affirmative action is patronizing arrogance by manipulative white people throwing non-whites a bone to keep them in their hip pocket. When people think I'm white, I'm Joe Blow. When people know I'm part Indian, they suddenly give me special treatment and dispensation.

    WTF about me changes in the two seconds it takes to tell them about that part of my heritage? Not a thing. Not one blessed thing. Their political orientation and personal prejudices suddenly come into play and I'm either to be mollified and kept in-line with the standard left wing picture that all people not white are on the same side of the political spectrum, or pitied for what happened to some of my ancestors three centuries ago.

    WTF gives ANY white person the right to that special level of superiority where you can look down on me and patronize me with your pity? Not a damn thing. If you really believe we're all equal, then you know I'm just a human as the next person, just as much a creature of the jungle as the next, and as potentially another Pope, a Bill Gates, a US President, a serial killer, a drug dealer, a teacher, a lawyer, a Joe Blow as anyone else.

    I am defined by me and nothing and no one else.

    I am SICK of hearing affirmative action in anything but the negative, derogatory terms it deserves. To those who think it a good idea, keep your special treatment. I'd rather be judged on my abilities and actions than your notions of what I'm supposed to be based on what you think of my blood. Affirmative action is inherently a violation of the most basic human right to be judged on our own merits as individuals. A pox on it.

 

[Bogy]

Waydwolf, I hope it makes you feel better that nobody around here thinks you are special, or cuts you any slack because of anything. Around here you are just another right wing crackpot. :D

[RichW]

Debate about Affirmative Action has now veered way off topic, so I'm somewhat sorry to bring it up. It would normally be another thread, however most people here have made up there minds one way or the other so "resistance is futile".

Suffice it to say that for every anecdote illustrating the "horrors" of Affirmative Action, there are plenty of successes to more than offset them. And most of those negative anecdotes relate to applying AA in a lazy, recalcitrant, or even a diabolical way. Until we find a better way to provide equal opportunity to all for education and jobs, this program should stay the course.

It is interesting, however, that as a white guy, my own status trumps even those with Affirmative Action status. For all gubbamint jobs, federal, state, and local, I move to the top of the hiring list as long as I meet the minimum requirements. This is true even for some private sector jobs. Yet I have never heard anyone complain about my preferred status.

I met a young man the other night, a black man from Africa, who just got a full ride to Stanford via their Affirmative Action program. I doubt very much that he would have even applied there without this scholarship program, yet this country, and possibly the world will be a better place when this man becomes a physician.

Prejudice, discrimination, and lethargy prevent this country from utilizing its human resources to the fullest. Perhaps lethargy is the biggest factor. Affirmative Action, when properly administered, cause people to think "outside the box" when it comes to recruiting a work force (or college class).

[Bogy]

I happen to be in a profession where discrimination in hiring is legal. As a tall white guy who has had the same wife for the past 27 years and three kids plus a degree from a top-notch seminary I have my choice of positions, positions that other people without those attributes wouldn't have a shot at. Some are things I have worked hard to achieve, but others were simply a matter of having chosen the right parents, and some just happened. I am under no illusion that somehow I am where I am today due only to my amazing abilities.