Kid gets busted for distributing.... Linux

[Mark Holtz]

I wonder if it was Ubuntu or Red Hat....

From Blog of Helios:After confiscating the disks I called a conference with the student and that is how I came to discover you and your organization. Mr. Starks, I am sure you strongly believe in what you are doing but I cannot either support your efforts or allow them to happen in my classroom. At this point, I am not sure what you are doing is legal. No software is free and spreading that misconception is harmful.FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html)

Free software that I use: Ditto CP Paint.Net PrimoPDF Google Chrome OpenOffice Google Earth Apache Firefox Notepad ++ WootalyzerNeed I go on?

[Tom Robertson]

Now, Mark, you surely know that no software is free. There has to be a catch. Somewhere. You can't possibly be really legal in using all that software. Are you sure you haven't picked up a virus from that unsafe software... :)

At least his response fit within his rules of language. :)

And I too wonder how long it took him to edit it to that level of politeness. :lol:

Peace,
Tom

[smiddy]

Oh wow! I haven't tried Linux in quite some time, but I never had to pay for it, especially when you can get the source so readily too (baring some distributions).

I'm guessing since this is opened up, we will see the end result to this sometime after the Holidays.

The saga continues...

[LarryFlowers]

I am no Linux Fan, but this teacher was 6 bricks shy of a load. That being said, I believe the kids in schools should be working on Windows platforms, and perhaps some Mac platforms IF your intention is to prepare them for real world environments. Like it or not, that's the way the world turns. Linux should be available to those with a technical bent who want to try out some open source software... but if you are preparing students to enter the workplace... you would be derelict in your duty to not teach them on the platform they are most likely to encounter.

A Georgia school system a couple of years back made an attempt to provide every student with a Mac laptop. There were financial irregularities with the deal and the courts stopped the deal dead in its tracks, but a frequent arguement that arose in public hearings was a concern by parents that their kids werent as likely to run into Macs in the workplace as they were Windows. Personally I think if you know either Mac or Windows you can work with the other fairly quickly, but Linux is another matter entirely.

[rudeney]

Honestly, for what most students "need', Linux is fine. It has a GUI, a web browser, e-mail, and a word processor. Having said that, I don't use it. I do have a VPC image of Ubuntu on my laptop just in case I need to test something, but I prefer Windows. If I had a friend looking for an ultra-cheap computer solution, I'd not hesitate to recommend Linux.

[Mark Holtz]

Followup post from Blog of Helios (http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasinations-aint-us.html).So boasting a stunning readership in the dozens, I go about my business writing about things that happen in our day to day operations. Every now and then, something or someone does or says something that I believe needs attention.

Holy Crap!

Well, we got attention. When I published a part of the email this Teacher sent me, it experienced something known as "The Slashdot Effect." Slashdot is a website devoted to the tech/internet world and is read by hundreds of thousands an hour.

Yeah...hundreds of thousands an hour. My article scolding this teacher ended up on the front page of Slashdot.

For whatever reason, this story took on a life of its own. By 10:30 AM, I had to turn my cell phone off. Poeple were getting my number from my business website and calling me with their comments and reactions.I guess I contributed to that also.

Right now, a drive cartridge is collecting dust on the floor. It is awaiting a hard drive. Once I get a hard drive, I will be loading up a distro on Linux and putting it on my main box.

[MIAMI1683]

Serious questions arise for me. First as we know Linux is free. So why not use it in schools. It would save millions of tax dollars to do something else with . Like pay teachers, or help buy more books. So why not?

[xIsamuTM]

Y'know, I think Vivi said it best when he said,
"..."

[BubblePuppy]

I am no Linux Fan, but this teacher was 6 bricks shy of a load. That being said, I believe the kids in schools should be working on Windows platforms, and perhaps some Mac platforms IF your intention is to prepare them for real world environments. Like it or not, that's the way the world turns. Linux should be available to those with a technical bent who want to try out some open source software... but if you are preparing students to enter the workplace... you would be derelict in your duty to not teach them on the platform they are most likely to encounter.

A Georgia school system a couple of years back made an attempt to provide every student with a Mac laptop. There were financial irregularities with the deal and the courts stopped the deal dead in its tracks, but a frequent arguement that arose in public hearings was a concern by parents that their kids werent as likely to run into Macs in the workplace as they were Windows. Personally I think if you know either Mac or Windows you can work with the other fairly quickly, but Linux is another matter entirely.

You are almost 100% correct, Sir. However, if the childs interest is in the graphic arts field then learning the Mac would be in the best interest, since the Mac seems to dominate this area. Of course , like you said, learning both would cover all the bases.

[BattleZone]

You are almost 100% correct, Sir. However, if the childs interest is in the graphic arts field then leaning the Mac would be in the best interest, since the Mac seems to dominate this area. Of course , like you said, learning both would cover all the bases.

Even that "depends". Macs were certainly well ahead of PCs in desktop publishing and that kind of thing in the 80s and into the 90s, though there isn't much difference today.

But there are many segments of the professional graphics world, 3D animation in particular, where Unix varients rule the world. Someone familiar with Linux would be much more comfortable than either a PC or Mac user. And while I realize that OSX is a pretty shell on top of BSD, the reality is that very few Mac users ever leave the pretty shell, unlike a typical Linux user.

[HIPAR]

What difference does the the brand of a graphical interfaced operating system make? You click an icon for your browser, email, word processor or photo editor. It's all basically the same at that level so, unless you're going 'under the hood' and doing original work, they all are the same. In the 'real world' IT deparments don't want you under the hood.

--- CHAS

[Stewart Vernon]

Serious questions arise for me. First as we know Linux is free. So why not use it in schools. It would save millions of tax dollars to do something else with . Like pay teachers, or help buy more books. So why not?

I would agree with this. At that level, schools should be more about teaching concepts and encouraging students to learn and develop adaptive skills. Teaching specific computers and/or operating systems at that level might not be applicable to any particular student depending on where they go in life... but general computer skills, adaptive learning, and concepts will be applicable everywhere.

While folks will also tell you things like "how can my child succeed if he doesn't have a computer in school", it is always worth noting that computers were in fact developed by people who did not have computers in school! :) The point here being that kids who learn the basics, then learn more advanced concepts, and have the ability to learn and adapt to new situations will almost always succeed in life at a greater rate than students who are targeted to a particular narrower skillset.

Linux would be a great way to expose kids to a wide range of computer concepts and save money for the schools at the same time.

[mmccaugh]

Linux in schools is a good idea to a point. Unfortunately the caveat to a free or GPL software means no official support either, no version control to a degree, and what is free today could not be tomorrow, for example look at Redhat. Sure you can get Fedora Core which is basically the same, but you get the idea.

Driver support is an issue as well.

I FULLY support anyone that wants to pass out Linux and encourage anyone to install it at home and play around, but schools should be running something that is mainstream and has support.

[xIsamuTM]

I remember being taught computers (hehe) on an Apple IIc when i was in middle school (early 1990's) It was the bigest joke ever that i was being taught apple works at school then going home to a 386sx25 running windows 3.1. I ended up learning more about my computer talking on Prodigy then i did at school

[mmccaugh]

I remember being taught computers (hehe) on an Apple IIc when i was in middle school (early 1990's) It was the bigest joke ever that i was being taught apple works at school then going home to a 386sx25 running windows 3.1. I ended up learning more about my computer talking on Prodigy then i did at school

Yeah I did the same thing, it is pretty silly learning on a mac at school, but the biggest issue I see is support. In the long run the cost to support a GPL OS could very well outweigh the cost to implement a proper solution, especially once you factor in the discounts educational institutions get.

Without looking at all the numbers I don't think it is a good assumtion to say it would save millions in tax dollars.

Still on the original topic, this student certainly did nothing wrong, it's scary we have teachers out there so misinformed yet responsible for teaching our children.

[Stewart Vernon]

I FULLY support anyone that wants to pass out Linux and encourage anyone to install it at home and play around, but schools should be running something that is mainstream and has support.

I don't want to derail the thread... but "support" is an interesting issue. There are those who have found Microsoft's "support" to be unhelpful too... and they only give "free" support for a limited time before you have to pay to even talk to someone.

I wager a school might be better off hiring a couple of Tech guys to support the school (administrative computers as well as learning ones) since they probably need that support in place anyway... and that would probably still be less than the cost of Windows + paid support from Microsoft... and an on-site Tech guy would support the hardware as well as the software, whereas Microsoft would only help you until they can say "you need a new computer".

Back when I was in school, not so long ago mind you... my school had computers because they were donated... and I learned quite a bit. So while I would expect a college I'm paying to attend to have current stuff and closer to top-of-the-line equipment/software... I think elementary/middle/high schools would do much better teaching concepts, and those can be taught without all the latest and greatest.

[xIsamuTM]

I always figured that schools would have an IT firm on call for tech support issues.

[mmccaugh]

I don't want to derail the thread... but "support" is an interesting issue. There are those who have found Microsoft's "support" to be unhelpful too... and they only give "free" support for a limited time before you have to pay to even talk to someone.

I wager a school might be better off hiring a couple of Tech guys to support the school (administrative computers as well as learning ones) since they probably need that support in place anyway... and that would probably still be less than the cost of Windows + paid support from Microsoft... and an on-site Tech guy would support the hardware as well as the software, whereas Microsoft would only help you until they can say "you need a new computer".

Back when I was in school, not so long ago mind you... my school had computers because they were donated... and I learned quite a bit. So while I would expect a college I'm paying to attend to have current stuff and closer to top-of-the-line equipment/software... I think elementary/middle/high schools would do much better teaching concepts, and those can be taught without all the latest and greatest.

By support I mean driver and platform support, not phone support. If I install windows I know my hardware is going to work with it and I am going to have no driver issues, every hardware manufacturer makes drivers for windows, I know I will have patch support for security issues.

On a GPL platform you will 'probably' have those things, but it's all community maintained, you cannot bet your environment on a probably.

And Isamu, yes schools do have IT support staff, what I am referring to is the support cost in man hours to maintain one platform vs another. How many peopel will I need to maintain an environment of Linux machines, vs an environment of Windows or Mac machines.

Once you factor those numbers in with the cost of the actual software linux really isn't 'free'.

[Stewart Vernon]

By support I mean driver and platform support, not phone support. If I install windows I know my hardware is going to work with it and I am going to have no driver issues, every hardware manufacturer makes drivers for windows, I know I will have patch support for security issues.

Unfortunately, many here will attest that you can't just rely on that with Microsoft either. Only if you buy a Vista-certified computer might you feel confident that Vista will install without driver issues. Otherwise, who knows.

If schools want the latest and greatest there will always be issues... but if they are ok running a level back from latest/greatest then higher compatibility is more likely. Much more likely, for example to find a cheap older computer that will run Windows XP or Windows 2000 out of the box with driver support.

The suggestion of Linux was meant to be a cost-savings effort... so I would presume schools wouldn't be buying brand new computer systems with all the latest/greatest stuff on them to run Linux. I would assume they would be using "last year" equipment since Linux traditionally requires less hardware than Windows for similar performance.

[turey22]

I think elementary/middle/high schools would do much better teaching concepts, and those can be taught without all the latest and greatest.


when you say "latest and greatest" do you mean microsoft?

[Stewart Vernon]

when you say "latest and greatest" do you mean microsoft?

I mean anybody. Windows 98 is actually still a great teaching platform to teach basic computer concepts... but Windows 2000/XP can probably be had cheaper now that they are either end-of-life or close to it. No need to pony up for Windows Vista machines.

Same for Mac.. if they wanted to go with Macs, get computers and OS from a generation or 2 back to save money. Kids in school don't need the latest and greatest hardware or software unless they can get it at the same price.

I've actually been using the MESS emulator to emulate some older computers (Commodore 64 and TRS-80 for example) to get across some basic computer programming concepts as they have a much easier entry point for a novice to write a quick 5 line program in Basic that does something. Then once the basics are grasped, moving onto the latest/greatest stuff will not seem as monumental a task.

Kind of like how we ride bikes before we drive cars... and most of us don't get a Porsche as our first car... we get what we get, as long as it works.

[Dad61]

I always figured that schools would have an IT firm on call for tech support issues.

They do. That is what a friend of mine does for a living. Another does it for BOCES.