New 811 HDTV Reciever - DBSTalk First Look

[Scott Greczkowski]

Well since we have been down for the past 2 days what better way can we make things up to you but to give you a sneak peek look at a brand new receiver coming later this year from our friends at Dish Network. :)

The new receiver will be the 811 which is going to be the replacement of the 6000 series.


The 811 will be able to receive High Definition / Standard Definition from Dish Network as well as Analog and Digital Off Air Broadcasts.

Unlike the 6000 the 811 will have a infrared universal remote control (Not a UHF)

The 811 will have HD component, DVI-HDTV, composite& S-video connections as well as two composite a/v inputs.

The 811 will support DISH Interactive (OpenTV) and will have a new user interface, the 811 will be able to do PIP in the guide (Picture in Guide). The guide will offer seamless integration between off air and satellite channels.

The 811 will output in 720p or 1080i resolutions

The 811 will have Optical Digital outputs

Now I have not seen one of these and have not played with one so I can't answer to many questions about it. But it appears that the 811 will soon be the 301 of HD satellite receivers. :D

[Mike123abc]

Any word on pricing? That will be key if above or below the 6000. Would be nice if they could get it priced under $500. If it falls below $300 eventually it could become the "standard" reciever.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Initial reports that it will be less then the 600. I have even heard from one contact that the price could be around the $300 range you mentioned. (Be warned though this is not confirmed so don't get your hopes up too high) :)

I said it months ago but I will say it again now, I see the HD receiver becoming the STANDARD HD receiver within 2 years, will the 811 be this new receiver? Hard to say but with a low price point it will be a good unit even if the customer does not yet have a digital tv. :)

[Eyedox]

My speculation is around the same price as the 6000's currently. $500?

[gpflepsen]

Is the 811 a Dish Pro receiver?

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yes the 811 is a Dishpro receiver, all new models since the 301 have been Dish Pro.

[Raymond Simonian]

Any speculation as to when it will be released? Will it be after the PVR921 is expected to be released in September? Does the 921 have a second tuner that can feed to another television? I just bought a Samsung TXN33075 30" HDTV Monitor for the bedroom. I might use the 811 for the Samsung. If it is released before the 921 I will buy it in either case. I don't have a 6000 receiver. I have an RCAF3810YXY 38" HDTV in the living room. The chassis just came back from the shop. It had a power failure, the diod, cap problem. I had it 14 months. I used the Samsung while it was being repaired on an extended warranty.

[Lyle_JP]

Will the 811 be "downconverting" high def in the component outputs to 480p whenever a provider wants them to? My TV has no DVI port, and if this receiver does that then NO SALE!

[Ken_F]

Lyle,

The proposed cable DTV "plug and play" agreement would ban component downconversion for cable television. Moreover, it would guarantee that you could make a copy of any program, except for PPV and VOD. Although this agreement doesn't specifically apply to satellite, when/if it is ratified by the FCC, the applicable terms would almost certainly be extended to Dish Network and DirecTV, if not by rule, at least in practice.

[krazy k]

so what will happen to the 6000 rec?

[Mike123abc]

The 6000 has already been discontinued. Only what is left in inventory is being sold. The 6000 can no longer be made because it does not support closed captioning.

[Guest]

Just an opinion but the 811 does not make sense from a business or manufacturing perspective; nor a retailer or consumers. 1st: The few TV's, specifically those with a DVI connector that supports the DVI-HDTV spec only began to appear this year with fewer yet last year. HDMI is the new standard for TV's to replace DVI. The spec is finalized and the silicon is available now so why take a step back-wards. There will be adapters to allow the HDMI output to interface with a TV that uses DVI. 2nd: The 811 and 211 should be the same receiver.
There would be one model instead of 2 so you save on R&D, use
one manufacturing line, one manual to write and print, one model to market, one model for Dish Nets Tech support to familiarize with, and one receiver to write software for (we all know how
beneficial that would be). 3rd: As a retailer its only one model
to stock and explain to customers. And no worry of how many
of each receiver to stock or if you will be sitting on a particular model for awhile. 4th: CUSTOMER CONFUSION. You would not
make separate models of receivers one that has composite
and one that has S-video and then try to sell the right one to the customer. You sell one receiver focusing on the service not the
hookup knowing that the hardware will hook up to any tv the customer may have. Customers come in to buy a "HD receiver" to take home and connect to there "HDTV" expecting the same level of connectivity thats available on any electronic device. Also what
happens when HD becomes more of the norm and other devices
come to market such as HD-DVD recorders and stand alone PVR's
that require a firewire connection to record. And then the customer realizes there are no recorders that have a DVI or
HD component input and are not interested in using low quality
downrezed analog VCR's. Dish Network should rethink what
they are doing. There is no need to develop 2 different models
that will do the same thing. Change the DVI connector to HDMI
and slap a couple of DTVLink bidirectional firewire ports on,
hopefully with HAVi also, and Dish will have a great entry level
HD receiver compatible with any HDTV available now or to come.
I hope Dish Net reads this and takes a serious look at how they
decide what new models to develop.

-Troi

[Cyclone]

I've heard about the 811 for a while now so its good to finally see something in writing.

I wonder why they would drop the UHF remote? I mean that thing rules! Still, it appears that this is just a generic 6000 replacement and nothing to get worked up over (thats the 921's job). If the 921 is as expensive as I suspect it will be, then it looks like the 811 will be on my list for Christmas (and my 6000 will be on eBay :D )

[P Smith]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
The 6000 has already been discontinued. Only what is left in inventory is being sold. The 6000 can no longer be made because it does not support closed captioning.

I don't know what wrong with your 6000, but my (777P) doesn't have any problem with closed captioning !

[n0qcu]

On the SD channels yes, on HD and OTA no CC

[Mike123abc]

Ooops yes I should have said HDTV CC which took effect on all devices made after last July. Dish supposedly made a bunch of 6000s to hold them over till the new models came out before the deadline for HDTV CC.

[Ken_F]

Troi (Guest),

HDMI is the new standard for TV's to replace DVI. The spec is finalized and the silicon is available now so why take a step back-wards. There will be adapters to allow the HDMI output to interface with a TV that uses DVI.HDMI is compatible with DVI and vice versa. You can get DVI output from a HDMI cable, and you can HDMI output (albeit without sound) from a DVI cable. If the 811 doesn't feature a HDMI connection when it is released, Dish may bundle a DVI->HDMI cable adapter.

2nd: The 811 and 211 should be the same receiver.
There would be one model instead of 2 so you save on R&D, use
one manufacturing line, one manual to write and print, one model to market, one model for Dish Nets Tech support to familiarize with, and one receiver to write software for (we all know how
beneficial that would be).The 211 is much less expensive to manufacture. The 921 and "811" require MP@HL silicon and extra memory to decode HDTV. They also require the necessary chips and components (D/A) to support the analog outputs. These are significant component costs. Because the 211 will merely separate MPEG-2 signals from the Dish modulated transport stream, and output MPEG-2 directly through Firewire, it will not incur the costs associated with decoding capability. For that reason, I think the $299 estimate for the 211 is probably a reasonable one.
3rd: As a retailer its only one model to stock and explain to customers. And no worry of how many of each receiver to stock or if you will be sitting on a particular model for awhile.IThey just need to market as a specialized, Mitsubishi-only product. I suspect the 211 might be a special order item from Dish, and/or it might be directed toward retailers of Mitsubishi televisions. At a later time, it may become usable with a standalone HDTV Tivo (with DVI output and Firewire for timeshifting a MPEG-2 source), but it wouldn't be marketed with that in mind.
Also what happens when HD becomes more of the norm and other devices come to market such as HD-DVD recorders and stand alone PVR's that require a firewire connection to record. We do agree here. According to the proposed cable DTV "plug and play" agreement, every cable customer is to have access to a HDTV box with Firewire starting December 31, 2003.

If Dish does not have that same capability in an affordable box consumers can buy (with DVI) come 2004, then they will be at a competitive disadvantage. There will be customers who want to use HDTV D-VHS or Blu-ray HDTV DVD recorder products without spending $1000+ to get the 921; that said, if the 921 is priced at less than we are expecting, this might be a non-issue.

Moreover, if the currently proposed cable DTV agreement were adopted, it would require DVI and Firewire on all cable boxes starting July, 2005. It's not inconceivable that requirement would be extended to the DBS providers. If and when that happens, Dish would have to come up with a 811 replacement in mid 2005.

[Ken_F]

Regarding output options...

I do hope Dish will provide an "all native" HDTV display setting for both the 921 and 811. DirecTV set-top boxes now provide a number of output / upconversion options, and I hope that Dish will use the latest Sony and Zenith DirecTV HDTV as a reference.

I would like the option to output 720p and 1080i natively through DVI or component, without conversion of one to the other. Some customers have monitors that can do all formats natively, while others with digital displays would rather have their television do the scaling for HDTV. If the Toshiba LCOS or Sony SXRD I buy next year can do 1080p native, I don't want the 811/921 scaling 720p to 1080i, nor do I want it scaling 1080i to 720p. A set with 1080p deinterlace is almost certainly going to do a better job of scaling and de-interlace than a consumer HDTV set-top.

Of course, they still need to provide all channels->480p, all->720p, and all->1080i options for displays that require it.

[DoyleS]

It would seem to me that my only reason for selling a receiver would be to increase the sales of programming. By limiting features one limits the customer base. Output connectivity is a big issue as the market is in its infancy stages. The lack of Firewire and even a VGA (RGBHV) output will limit the marketability of this receiver to many of the early adopters which are critical in a new market. At some point, I will consider DSS HD but for now the feature set is too limiting and I'll stick with my OTA HD system and the 15-20 local stations with DTV signals in my area.

Doyle

[Greg Hampton]

Check out this link.

http://www.skyretailer.com/teamsummit1.shtm

The Tv set is an RCA 40 inch projection.

The $1499 price includes TV, DISH, 811 Receiver and Installation.

[Ken_F]

Greg,

Do you have any specific information to that effect? What is your source?

[Greg Hampton]

A retailer at Team Summit in Atlanta.

[Jacob S]

Will there be other packages that will offer a bigger tv?

[Pocatello]

The 40" TV is actually a direct view, not a projection.

Some have speculated that it will use the 38" RCA tube.

[Cyclone]

Dang! I am using the RGB connector for my HD from the 6000. I'll have to find a work around.

[Jacob S]

Since it is a tubed tv it shoud provide a better picture quality than a projection tv I would think. Are projections or tubed tv's more expensive to repair? I would htink that the tubed tv's would be more expensive.

[Martyva]

We have a rear projection 43" Samsung DLP that looks as good as a 32" Sony and better than the 43" Hitachi next to it.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Since it is a tubed tv it shoud provide a better picture quality than a projection tv I would think. Are projections or tubed tv's more expensive to repair? I would htink that the tubed tv's would be more expensive.

No, I think projections are more expensive to repair, they have more parts, and some really finnicky optical parts.

[Jacob S]

I have seen some 31 inch tv's new for only $299 now, boy have the prices dropped on those.

[drjake]

Pocatello,

I beg to differ, but I was at team summit and the 40" model being demonstrated was a 40" rear projection monitor.

[Ken_F]

drjake,

What was the difference in bundle price of the 34" tube vs 40" projection?

[Cyclone]

I hope that they are able to find a Loud Enough fan for the 811.

[JStanton]

Originally posted by Cyclone
I hope that they are able to find a Loud Enough fan for the 811.

ROTFL :lol:

[Ken_F]

If the report on Firewire on the 811 is true, then I think Dish made an excellent strategic decision. Without Firewire on the base HDTV receiver, they might expose themselves to some additional churn if cable were to make Firewire STBs available to all customers by December 31, 2003, as proposed by the cable DTV agreement. But they substantially reduce this particular risk by incorporating Firewire on the 811.

[Martyva]

Ken, I think the price will be $1499 on the 34" CRT or the 40" RPTV.

[mjz]

I hear it does not have a RGB out---And I am really close to getting a CRT projector, oh well.

[mdrobnak]

mjz -

If the DVI output is analog or analog and digital....There are DVI->VGA convertors out there for like $15 -- it's just re-arranging of wires.

-Matt

[Ken_F]

The 811 evidently does not have a RGB output connector. However, it might send RGB output through the component, with a component to RGB/VGA breakout cable--the 921 does it this way. I guess we'll have to wait to find out if the 811 will do this too.

[Soycrema]

does anyone have any info, specs, pictures of the new JVC HD PVR Dish receiver that is supposed to come out soon?
Thanks!

[ccarmichael]

I was told by a E* installer of this HDTV package (Vista, California). Should be avail in August ... sweet. for $1400 and change, it is the next progression. Will the new HDTV receiver receive OTA TV?

[BobMurdoch]

Re; the JVC PVR..... It's supposed to be the same as the 921, but with a smaller hard drive and NO OTA tuner for HDTV.

[Cyclone]

Any news on when this thing is supposed to be released?

[tnsprin]

Originally posted by Cyclone
Any news on when this thing is supposed to be released?
Let's see wasn't it delayed to third quarter 2002?

[gpflepsen]

Originally posted by tnsprin

Let's see wasn't it delayed to third quarter 2002?

What's that, 15 days away?

[Pocatello]

$299

according to the Tech Chat.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Wow only $299 for this receiver! If that fuel the HDTV movement nothing will...

Oh year I forgot something, in order for HD to be successful there needs to be lots of stuff in HD to watch.... Next months Charlie Chat should be interesting, I am EXPECTING some sort of announcement next month. :D

[Jacob S]

That is a pretty good price on an HD receiver. Those looking to sell their 6000's may not get much out of their receivers.

[HTguy]

Guys,

I believe Mark made a mistake quoting the Modell 811 @$299 (stand alone).

E* is also planning to release a "no frills" HD box later this year designed for use with HDTVs that have the Digital TV tuner built in. It will not have an ATSC 8VSB tuner on board for that reason. It has an IEEE1394 (now known as "DISH Wire?!) port but doesn't have DVI.

Swami HTGuy predicts this wil be $299.

The 811 will be $499.

Sorry.

Hope we don't see a lot of posts complaining that DISH "promised" the 811 would be $299.

If I'm wrong I'll be as happy as anyone.

[Jacob S]

Me along with others thought that seemed aweful darn cheap for an HD receiver.

[Pocatello]

he made a mistake?

$499?

[BobMurdoch]

Initial reports that it will be less then the 600. I have even heard from one contact that the price could be around the $300 range you mentioned. (Be warned though this is not confirmed so don't get your hopes up too high) :)

I said it months ago but I will say it again now, I see the HD receiver becoming the STANDARD HD receiver within 2 years, will the 811 be this new receiver? Hard to say but with a low price point it will be a good unit even if the customer does not yet have a digital tv. :)

Price confirmed at $299 on the Tech Chat last night, although several people are trying to insinuate that the boys goofed about the price. Doesn't seem likely that they goofed to me.

[gpflepsen]

Price confirmed at $299 on the Tech Chat last night, although several people are trying to insinuate that the boys goofed about the price. Doesn't seem likely that they goofed to me.


IF they had goofed, there was plenty of time on the program to have it corrected. What is the 811 but a 6000u with digital outputs? They don't have anything in R&D in the chassis ;)

[dcromer]

Is it possible to use a DVI to 15 pin VGA converter, such as used with older computer monitors on newer video cards, to convert the DVI to an RGB connection?

[gpflepsen]

Is it possible to use a DVI to 15 pin VGA converter, such as used with older computer monitors on newer video cards, to convert the DVI to an RGB connection?

That works if you have a DVI-I connection. Some computer video cards have this but outside of that I don't know where they are used.

Do a search for DVI-I and DVI-D to see the difference in the plug's pins.

[Cyclone]

Isn't there Component to RGB cables available?

[Nick]

With RGB, the sync and brightness signals are separate from the red, green, blue signals..

[HTguy]

IF they had goofed, there was plenty of time on the program to have it corrected. What is the 811 but a 6000u with digital outputs? They don't have anything in R&D in the chassis ;)6000u - $499 (originally $499 + $99 for 8PSK = $598)
8VSB - $149
=$648 (originally $747 w/addition of 8PSK)

The 811 has 8VSB & 8PSK included, much more memory allowing for Open TV interface, iTV & future upgrades, DVI, IEEE1394 "DISHWIRE" ( :sure: ), and simultaneous HD & SD output.

The chassis is different, too.

If it actually ships for $299 (s/o) E* will be subsidizing it more than any other product they have developed.

It may happen but I still suspect Mr. Jackson had the Model 211 in mind when he said $299.

I know Scott Greczkowski thinks the $299 price has been confirmed for the 811 & he may be right.

But I still have a strong suspicion that the 811 will come out for $499 (s/o)/$599 w/SuperDish. And if I'm right (I hope I'm wrong) there will be a bunch of posts here screaming about how DISH broke another "promise."

[dcromer]

Is it possible to use a DVI to 15 pin VGA converter, such as used with older computer monitors on newer video cards, to convert the DVI to an RGB connection?

DVI-I has extra pins around a cross key (see picture) that allow a RGB adapter to be used. DVI-D connectors lack the extra pins. A DVI-D monitor can be connected to either a DVI-I or a DVI-D port for an entirely digital signal. An analog monitor (RGB) can only be connected to a DVI-I port with an adapter. The 811 and 921 will include DVI-I connectors as I can tell from photos.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/video/DVI/dvi.jpg

Isn't there Component to RGB cables available?

There are no conversion cables, they are two different signals. There are converter boxes that convert Component to RGB and RGB to Component.

See: http://www.smarthome.com/77706.html ]

[nostar]

Does anyone know if the 811 will have a noisy fan. I'm trying to cut down on the noise pollution in my home. My wife is partially deaf and the other day she was complaining about the noise from the 6000. This is no longer a funny issue.

[Cyclone]

The 811 is going to be a bit noisy. The new fan is supposedly so strong, that if you turn the 811 upside down, it will hover. ;)

Dcromer, Will the DVI-I analog pins be broken out to a RGB adapter or a Component adapter?

[nostar]

The 811 is going to be a bit noisy. The new fan is supposedly so strong, that if you turn the 811 upside down, it will hover. ;)

Perhaps if D* has a HD receiver/hover craft/boeing 707, similar to the Dish Network 6000 I can fly right over and sign up with them and I can have a regular airport right here in the house.

[nostar]

Does anyone have a serious answer to whether the 811 will have a noisy fan to cool the electronics. This 6000 receiver is really noisy. Everyone that owns one knows this. What is generating all the heat in this unit?

[Kryspy]

Does anyone have a serious answer to whether the 811 will have a noisy fan to cool the electronics. This 6000 receiver is really noisy. Everyone that owns one knows this. What is generating all the heat in this unit?


I hear porn generates alot of heat ! :sure:

Kryspy

[Cyclone]

Nostar, none of us know.

[HTguy]

Does anyone have a serious answer to whether the 811 will have a noisy fan to cool the electronics. This 6000 receiver is really noisy. Everyone that owns one knows this. What is generating all the heat in this unit?The fan is to cool the 8VSB processor chip. Just like the CPU in your computer the 8VSB is processing a ton of data at high speed and tends to run hot. The fan is on the 8VSB tuner module - the 6000 doesn't require a fan without it.

However, the latest 8VSB chip version seems to work without a fan & the word going around is that the 811 won't have one.

BTW, I would say that calling the 6000 w/8VSB noisy is relative & subjective. Unless your fan is defective in some way (i.e. broken blades, bad motor, etc.) it's quieter than most other dbs HD IRDs. My demo is in a cabinet & the fan is absolutely undetectable from more than a couple of feet away. When outside the cabinet it is just barely detectable when everything else is off, nothing else is happening and the door to the room is closed to reduce outside ambient noise.

On the other hand, my best friend's Sony SAT HD-100 is always audible when there's no audio playing on his system. But since he has a dedicated "theater room" which is only used for watching TV it's not an issue for him.

[nostar]

BTW, I would say that calling the 6000 w/8VSB noisy is relative & subjective. Unless your fan is defective in some way (i.e. broken blades, bad motor, etc.) it's quieter than most other dbs HD IRDs.
Thanks for the info. I think that you are right about the defective fan. I don't recall that it was this noisy when I purchased it 6 months ago.

[bluuz]

The fan on the 6000 8VSB is cheap and typically becomes noisy over time. Mine was quiet for the first few months before starting to squeal. I think another problem with the 6000 is that the normal fan vibration causes harmonics and rattle in the metal outer housing of the module. I can attest that my module has worked fine for over a year without a fan.

[Deuce]

HTGuy is right, the 811 is going to be much quieter with the cooling, because the 8VSB and 8PSK are built right on the actual board the cooling process is much easier. Also the cooling process is a step up from the 721, which is seemingly a bad thing for the 721 since it does have a Hard Drive and the 811 does not.

[Cyclone]

HTGuy is right, the 811 is going to be much quieter with the cooling, because the 8VSB and 8PSK are built right on the actual board the cooling process is much easier.

Where did you read that the 811 was going to have its 8PSK and 8VSB chips on the main board? I always thought that the 811 was just a 6000 with a bit more NVRAM for better software and its chassis painted silver.

I hadn't read about the two expansion cards no longer being used or the chips right on the main board.

[mchargue]

Will the 811 have an IEEE1394 output port that can be used to drive a recorder?

I have in mind an HTPC that would be used to record the output of the 811, and play my DVD/MP3/DivX/Xvid stuff.

[Deuce]

Where did you read that the 811 was going to have its 8PSK and 8VSB chips on the main board? I always thought that the 811 was just a 6000 with a bit more NVRAM for better software and its chassis painted silver.

I hadn't read about the two expansion cards no longer being used or the chips right on the main board.


Well from everything that I've seen, (*hint hint*) the 8VSB and 8PSK are not chips, but both cartridges are built in.


(*hint hint*)= I work there ;)

[Peluso]

Well from everything that I've seen, (*hint hint*) the 8VSB and 8PSK are not chips, but both cartridges are built in.
(*hint hint*)= I work there ;)

I don't get it then. The more you get on the board, the less complicated the box is, and less complicated when making any large number of products usually means less $$ to manufacturer.

I would think that at some point an 811 like box will be the standard receiver. keeps life simple to have one main receiver for both SD and HDTV. I would love to know approximate cost dollars for both pcs as they stand now and what it would take to get it so that the 811 costs the same as an entry level receiver.

*5 days until Charlie chat*

[Marcus S]

I would like to understand when the $1 per pak increases will stop. Promised hardware which has yet to be delivered (sorry, E* doesn't assure anything), how many sats (average subs), are willing to point to (at their cost, yet another sat), a delayed HD pak, at what cost. But gee, we still have yet to not fix software upgrades in our existing products, but at least we know after the hard drives fails in 501/508's, the subs get to pay (for the avg sub) $10 additional mo, for the experience. Existing subs w/new equipment, oops, sorry, pay for Dish Pro upgrade at your cost, early adopters pay again...

I don't see see the competitive edge here, I see a marketing division run amok in the last year pushing PVR's (now DVR's) like crazy, and now the thumb screws are in place. Charlie sits back while watching BUD. I can hear the marketing team now. "Our subs are addicted to DVR's, they will pay any price to keep the experience."

But then I wonder after E* pulled Dallas Distant Nets, why they have not moved to spot as quickly as suspected (Texas, the other Country, w/lots of rural subs?). Atlanta distant pull has not happened as forecast. Marketing just got a wakeup on Dallas distant net stop = potential lost subs? Not an FCC issue... Can't wait until they pull Atlanta. Please pay more, get less. Humm, sounds like a Ford Crown Vic. :group: :goodandba

[bbobbitt]

:confused: HELP! I am currently a Dish Network customer of 10 years currently using a 508 Dish Network receiver that's less than a year old. I just purchaed a new Toshiba Cinema Series 50" HDTV and want to be able to watch HDTV. I don't know what equipment to buy, from whom, etc?? I don't know whether to stay with Dish, go to DirectTV or try the cable route. I am $$ conscious and don't want to invest in anything that'll be outdated in a year (like my new 508). Those of you with experience...please advise.

Thanks!

[Cyclone]

Well, the current sole Dishnetwork HDTV set top box will be obsolete very shortly. So avoid the Dish 6000 if you can. Newer Set Top Boxes are due soon as well as the SuperDish for greater HDTV quanity. DirectTV is good if you need HD right now! But Dish and Rainbow (a new DBS to launch service in Oct) will have more HD by the end of the year.

[nostar]

:confused: HELP! I am currently a Dish Network customer of 10 years currently using a 508 Dish Network receiver that's less than a year old. I just purchased a new Toshiba Cinema Series 50" HDTV and want to be able to watch HDTV. I don't know what equipment to buy, from whom, etc?? I don't know whether to stay with Dish, go to DirectTV or try the cable route. I am $$ conscious and don't want to invest in anything that'll be outdated in a year (like my new 508). Those of you with experience...please advise.

Thanks!

Calm down. I'm in the same boat, as are many of us. Don't panic yet. Let's wait for awhile before we change things! Give Charlie a chance.

Btw, where do you live? Maybe you can get some OTA signals?

How do those DVD look on your TV? Must be awesome.

[bbobbitt]

:confused: Thanks! I'm not ready to make the move yet but I really want to take advantage of this new TV and I guess I'm a little impatient. I saw some HDTV demos in a Pittsburgh theatre store and really want to have that quality of a picture in my home. With DVD's the picture's awesome.

[cicijay]

I'm not sure I understand the dish wire on the 811.

1) Does it have it?
2) Do they plan to have it operational when the unit ships?
3) Will it allow taping onto the JVC SVHS?

[tahoerob]

:confused: HELP! I am currently a Dish Network customer of 10 years currently using a 508 Dish Network receiver that's less than a year old. I just purchaed a new Toshiba Cinema Series 50" HDTV and want to be able to watch HDTV. I don't know what equipment to buy, from whom, etc?? I don't know whether to stay with Dish, go to DirectTV or try the cable route. I am $$ conscious and don't want to invest in anything that'll be outdated in a year (like my new 508). Those of you with experience...please advise.

Thanks!

I have a similar dilemma. I too am going to wait on Dish HD due to few channels now & the SuperDish being required for new HD channels & obsolete 6000. I will wait for 811 or 921.

I got a used Samsung 151 settop OTA box on Ebay for $250. There are lots for sale even now. It has component out. It works great. I get all the networks but WB out of DC 75 miles away!!!. Picture is superb with component. The newer 351 at the Samsung site has a DVI out. Right now the majority of HD is via the networks OTA. The most recent MondayNightFootball on ABC was AWESOME in HD. I have a roof mount 8 bay UHF antenna w\ UHF preamp. If you already have an antenna, you are set. If not adding it now is still a must regardless of what box decodes it.

Robert

[ride525]

Has anyone reported testing the 811? I wondered if someone tested, how they liked the unit....

Can't decide whether to pull the plug on DISH and get Directv with the Samsung T-160 or just wait awhile longer....A report on the 811 might help influence my decision............

[tahoerob]

Has anyone reported testing the 811? I wondered if someone tested, how they liked the unit....

Can't decide whether to pull the plug on DISH and get Directv with the Samsung T-160 or just wait awhile longer....A report on the 811 might help influence my decision............

My local retailer VP says that Dish's satellite capacity, hardware & software give it a big advantage over Directv for expansion of HD channels. Dish uses true MPEG 2 compression that is easier for them to improve via software downloads while DirecTV use hardware based MPEG 1.5 tha twould require everyone to get new hardware to upgrade.

Also see my post at:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=140631#post140631post140631

Robert

[ride525]

My local retailer VP says that Dish's satellite capacity, hardware & software give it a big advantage over Directv for expansion of HD channels. Dish uses true MPEG 2 compression that is easier for them to improve via software downloads while DirecTV use hardware based MPEG 1.5 tha twould require everyone to get new hardware to upgrade.

Also see my post at:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=140631#post140631post140631

Robert

Robert,

Is your link correct? post 140631 is post by "Eyedox"
(maybe 2 posts below?)

Jeff

[chelsea]

Scott,
Could we please have a Mark Jackson Sticky thread,
holding his honor, to "help get it up & running" of a
modest expensive of $299. "You should be happy to
purchase this equipment", which I am at $299.

With Charlie's OK can we make this a new sticky now?

"Mark's 811 @ $299"

[Homer]

Just some additional food for thought.

The 811 will be $299 as a STANDALONE. The initial production units are rumored to being exclusive to the systems. Dish / TV / SuperDISH.

[Chris Freeland]

Just some additional food for thought.

The 811 will be $299 as a STANDALONE. The initial production units are rumored to being exclusive to the systems. Dish / TV / SuperDISH.

That may be true, however even current subs will need to upgrade to the SuperDish if they want the new HD channels. I suspect their will be an upgrade offer to current subs that will include the 811, SuperDish and professional instillation for $299 or less with a commitment to the new ATHD package bundled with AT50 or above for one year.

[Jerry G]

Here's a problem Dish had better address.

I have a 6000 in the main room and a 5000 in the bedroom. If I don't get so frustrated that I switch to DirecTV first, I'll want to get the new HD channels ASAP. That means getting the Superdish. And that means my 5000 becomes useless.

I originally was planning on getting the 921 when we all thought it was going to appear early in 2003. At this point, only God might know when the 921 will appear. So, the Superdish and new HD channels will appear long before the 921. I can get a legacy adapter to use the 6000 with the Superdish. But what about the 5000? If I want to maintain a receiver in the bedroom, I'll have to get an 811. If Dish doesn't offer this to me as part of the Superdish upgrade, I'm out of luck as far as having reception in the bedroom.

And then, when the 921 comes out and I get that, I end up with an extra receiver (the 6000 or 811) that I don't really need. If I don't want to end up with an extra STB, I have to give up viewing the TV in the bedroom.

Is there another solution I haven't thought of? And, no, I don't want to install the Superdish and keep the Dish 500 just for the bedroom STB. Could Dish have made this any more difficult if they tried?

And once again, as I've said before, if Dish would temporarily put up the new HD channels on existing birds, I could wait for the Superdish until the 921 shipped. Sure, I could wait for the new HD channels until the 921 shipped, but I'm tired of waiting for these channels, so I'll want to get them ASAP. There is absolutely NO good solution that I can see.

[Peluso]

go without HD in the bedroom. It's not a good solution, but it's a solution.

[Jerry G]

go without HD in the bedroom. It's not a good solution, but it's a solution.

That would be fine. But the point is that the 5000 will not work at all (HD or SD) with the Superdish. The legacy adapter will not work with the 5000. So it's no TV in the bedroom without another Superdish (or legacy adapter) compatible STB. If the 921 was available, this wouldn't be a problem.

[Peluso]

That would be fine. But the point is that the 5000 will not work at all (HD or SD) with the Superdish. The legacy adapter will not work with the 5000. So it's no TV in the bedroom without another Superdish (or legacy adapter) compatible STB. If the 921 was available, this wouldn't be a problem.

I should have qualified myself: Simple solution, forgo a Dish box in the bedroom for the near future. When a 921 is available then get that.

That's actually close to what i'm doing, or going to do. I'm tempted to get the 34" HD deal, and use the 811 in the living room with my 46" wide projection. When I can purchase the 921, i'll put the 811 in the bedroom with the smaller HD set.

[tahoerob]

I am sure the 5000 will make a nice DOORSTOP!

[nicktesla]

Well from everything that I've seen, (*hint hint*) the 8VSB and 8PSK are not chips, but both cartridges are built in.


(*hint hint*)= I work there ;)

Deuce,
I currently have a 6000 with the 8vsb. Will I be able to upgrade this unit so it will work with the superdish. or should i dump it now while i can?

[Mark Lamutt]

Nick, the 6000 will work with the Superdish. Other than Charlie saying that it will during the last chat, I also have another inside source of knowledge for this one. There's no reason to dump it unless you just want to upgrade to the newer unit for less $$.

[nicktesla]

Thanks for the info. That's good news! I'll keep the 6000 and get the 811 for the other room.

[Marcus S]

I am sure the 5000 will make a nice DOORSTOP!

The 6000 also makes a fine doorstop. Ancient EPG, SDTV not watchable via component video, no OpenTV, only 24hr EPG, and no comparable features compared to *D's HD equipment lineup with 3 and 7 day EPG, Wink, and more programming search options. The only question at the end of the day, will be how slow the 6000 EPG will become after SuperDish.

[tahoerob]

The 6000 also makes a fine doorstop. Ancient EPG, SDTV not watchable via component video, no OpenTV, only 24hr EPG, and no comparable features compared to *D's HD equipment lineup with 3 and 7 day EPG, Wink, and more programming search options. The only question at the end of the day, will be how slow the 6000 EPG will become after SuperDish.

True, true.

After Octobers release of new 811 etc., the 6000 will become worthless especially after a million show up for sale on ebay!

I am still waiting patiently for the 921. At least we are getting closer with the SuperDish & 811 around the corner.

Robert :lol:

[Edward York]

I just got off the phone with Dish Network and they told me the price of the 811 receiver will be $299.00 for existing customers as a special promotion. Far less than the 6000U and packed with more features including auto-switching between HDTV and standard TV and a firewire port. No more manually switching between standard TV and HDTV. The new receiver will do it automatic. It also includes the 8VSB tuner built in. Also, only 1 dish (a new model dish) is required to see 3 satellites.

Estimated delivery to the public is sometime in October.

Ed York, California.



Any word on pricing? That will be key if above or below the 6000. Would be nice if they could get it priced under $500. If it falls below $300 eventually it could become the "standard" reciever.

[tahoerob]

I just got off the phone with Dish Network and they told me the price of the 811 receiver will be $299.00 for existing customers as a special promotion. Far less than the 6000U and packed with more features including auto-switching between HDTV and standard TV and a firewire port. No more manually switching between standard TV and HDTV. The new receiver will do it automatic. It also includes the 8VSB tuner built in. Also, only 1 dish (a new model dish) is required to see 3 satellites.

Estimated delivery to the public is sometime in October.

Ed York, California.

The dish is supposed to be called SuperDish. I believe Dish will also introduce several new HD channels at eh same time to include HDNet & HDMovies. ESPN-HD??, Bravo-HD??

Robert

[HTguy]

I just got off the phone with Dish Network and they told me the price of the 811 receiver will be $299.00 for existing customers as a special promotion. Far less than the 6000U and packed with more features including auto-switching between HDTV and standard TV and a firewire port. No more manually switching between standard TV and HDTV. The new receiver will do it automatic. It also includes the 8VSB tuner built in. Also, only 1 dish (a new model dish) is required to see 3 satellites.

Estimated delivery to the public is sometime in October.

Ed York, California.I don't know why this would be a "special promotion." $299 was annouced as the regular price for anyone adding it to their account. But it's certainly subsidized and seems like a great deal.

[Bob Saylor]

Yeah, I understood that the $299 was what the 811 would cost, period. I would think that if Dish wanted to get old subs to update or get into HD they would offer a special price. Oh well, why should we expect anything good?

The best way to go into the next Charlie Chat is with a down attitude. That way we won't be disapointed by anything.

[ride525]

Any one know yet if the 811 will come with a DVI cable?

[pjboud]

I like the auto switching feature. They did announce a $299 price on the charlie chat, but who's watching that? THat's right, existing customers. So maybe that price is just for existing customers. My big concern is how much is the superdish upgrade going to cost. The whole issue about them pushing the 8psk module at the same time their promising more HD programming "This Summer" and then not delivering any is really got me p.o.ed. We all expected ESPN-HD by now and we would need the 8psk to get it. Now it's obvious that the 811 will be available at about the same time as the new programming, so it's been a waste of my money.

[pjboud]

Here's an email I just sent off to Charlie,
Dear Sir,
I'm writing to request a refund for and return the 8psk module for my 6000 receiver that I bought in the spring. I believe that I was misled into purchasing this and I want to send it back. The reason I believe I was misled is because at the time we were told that we would need the module for all future HD programming and it was announced on a Charlie Chat that new HD programming would be coming "this summer". You even had Mark Cuban of HDNET on as a guest for one of the chats. Now we know that there will be no new channels this summer and that Superdish and the 811 receiver will be out soon. Therefore the statement about needing the 8psk module is false, because once the new programming becomes available I have an option to upgrade to the new receiver.
I know you have people monitor the internet message boards that discuss Dish Network and Directv issues and you must know how upset people are with all the delays on dates that you have personally put out there regarding HD equipment and programming. Many HD enthusiasts are some of your best customers, but unfortunately they're tired of the delays and the "watch the next charlie chat" lines month after month. If you haven't noticed they're flocking to Directv as football season opens to get ESPN-HD, HDNET, HDNET Movies, Discovery HD, etc. for a reasonable price, unlike the 7.99 you charge for Discovery HD currently. You may have noticed a very reasonable new customer deal they're offering also, with no hidden charges for switches, installation of Superdishes, etc. They're not telling HD enthusiasts that they should be willing to pay a little more for upgrades because they've already spent alot on they're HD sets.
Your company has handled this very badly, in my opinion. You are very close to losing me as a customer. I will wait for the next Charlie Chat to decide, however, In the mean time I would like my $49 dollars back for a module I have not needed.
Thank you

[letMeIn]

haha .. Why would they ONLY offer 811 for $299 to existing customers ... DOn't make too much sense to me . They want to attract NEW customers like every other Business .. So according to your reasoning they do the following -> 811 for existing customers for $299, and 811 for NEW customers for what $499 ?!? Are U kidding me ? lol ... $299 will be MSRP , and for new customers there MIGHT be even a discount like there was with 6000 ( my friend bought 6000 for $399 JUST because he was a new customer ).

Even if what you say were true and all .. My way around this would be open new account with a contract for 1 year so I can get everything for free .. That means that I am existing NEW customer, and I can get 811 for $299 ..

811 will cost $299 to everyone, NEW or OLD ..

I like the auto switching feature. They did announce a $299 price on the charlie chat, but who's watching that? THat's right, existing customers. So maybe that price is just for existing customers. My big concern is how much is the superdish upgrade going to cost. The whole issue about them pushing the 8psk module at the same time their promising more HD programming "This Summer" and then not delivering any is really got me p.o.ed. We all expected ESPN-HD by now and we would need the 8psk to get it. Now it's obvious that the 811 will be available at about the same time as the new programming, so it's been a waste of my money.

[Peluso]

811 will cost $299 to everyone, NEW or OLD ..

Look for a $999 deal for HDTV and 811 receiver for this Xmas. It's possible with the correct package commitment.

[Chris Freeland]

haha .. Why would they ONLY offer 811 for $299 to existing customers ... DOn't make too much sense to me . They want to attract NEW customers like every other Business .. So according to your reasoning they do the following -> 811 for existing customers for $299, and 811 for NEW customers for what $499 ?!? Are U kidding me ? lol ... $299 will be MSRP , and for new customers there MIGHT be even a discount like there was with 6000 ( my friend bought 6000 for $399 JUST because he was a new customer ).

Even if what you say were true and all .. My way around this would be open new account with a contract for 1 year so I can get everything for free .. That means that I am existing NEW customer, and I can get 811 for $299 ..

811 will cost $299 to everyone, NEW or OLD ..

I suspect your correct that $299 for 811 will be msrp, without a commitment which is what new and current subs will pay. . I would not be surprised to see an 811 with SuperDish and instillation going to New subs for free with a one year commitment for at least AT50, bundled with the New ATHD package or both 811 and 301 STB's with SuperDish and installation with minimum of above package combination for 2-years. Also it would not surprise me to see a current sub promotion to upgrade to 811 and SuperDish for $199 with one year commitment to AT100 or above and ATHD and CCAP.

[wiz]

I emailed Dish Tech about the 811 and 1394. They replied the 811 will have 1394 Dishwire. One can only hope. If so I'll be buying one to go with my 6000, just for the recording posibilies of firewire to DVHS. I'll keep the 6000 hoping that there will be no downrezzing on component output and use the 811 for recording HD and for off air digital for my SD set. That will keep me from buying a 2nd DP injector for the legecy receiver I use for that set now.

[Curtis]

Why is the "auto switch from HD to SD" so important? Right now, I just leave the receiver on HD all the time. If the program is SD, I can still watch it. Am I missing something?

C

[cbusbee]

Why is the "auto switch from HD to SD" so important? Right now, I just leave the receiver on HD all the time. If the program is SD, I can still watch it. Am I missing something?

C

SD looks fuzzy when viewed in HD mode on my 6000.

[Curtis]

I thought it looked fuzzy because it was SD....I'll try switching.

[Bobby94928]

Why is the "auto switch from HD to SD" so important? Right now, I just leave the receiver on HD all the time. If the program is SD, I can still watch it. Am I missing something?

C

Along with looking fuzzy in 1080I, SD also leaves the black bars right and left. I watch SD with the s-video cable. It allow me to stretch the picture (and the 6000 does this better than my Mits) and the picture is much cleaner.

[tahoerob]

Along with looking fuzzy in 1080I, SD also leaves the black bars right and left. I watch SD with the s-video cable. It allow me to stretch the picture (and the 6000 does this better than my Mits) and the picture is much cleaner.

Won't the 811 & 921 have DVI output & upconversion??
If so, then all SD should look better.
However, it probably will default SD to have sidebars.
My Samsung OTA box does this. But I can alter it via the box instead of the TV.

Robert

[John Kotches]

Bobby,

Not that it's the best quality, but the * key on the 6000 remote allows you to toggle between various stretch and zoom modes to get rid of black bars if you desire.

Regards,

[Bobby94928]

Bobby,

Not that it's the best quality, but the * key on the 6000 remote allows you to toggle between various stretch and zoom modes to get rid of black bars if you desire.

Regards,

I knew that John :) . It's just that the 480 S-Video looks soooo much bettter than the upconverted 1080I while watching SD programming.

[John Quaglino]

I emailed Dish Tech about the 811 and 1394. They replied the 811 will have 1394 Dishwire. One can only hope. If so I'll be buying one to go with my 6000, just for the recording posibilies of firewire to DVHS. I'll keep the 6000 hoping that there will be no downrezzing on component output and use the 811 for recording HD and for off air digital for my SD set. That will keep me from buying a 2nd DP injector for the legecy receiver I use for that set now.


Here is the response they gave me to the Dishwire question. NO DISHWIRE.

Dear Mr. Quaglino,

Thank you for your email correspondence. Here is some information on the model 811.

Receiver Features

EPG Functions

Browse Feature

Channel Surfing Enhancements
Customers can select to skip "DISH HOME" loading if they pass by channel 100. A loading confirmation option appears when customers select this channel. While channeling up/down the receiver will skip the "Must Carry" slate channels if the customer does not have a second dish.



DISH Home Interactive TV with Customer Support Channel
DISH Home is the way to instantly access all that DISH Home Interactive TV has to offer. By accessing DISH Home from channel 100 or in the Main Menu, the best of interactive television is at your fingertips.



Electronic Program Guide
Two Electronic Program Guide display options, Full-Screen EPG and Picture-in-Guide EPG.
Page-At-A-Time Scrolling in EPG. Instantaneous current and next program extended information, no more waiting.



Extended Program Information
Information is stored in the receiver's memory for instant retrieval. Stores up to 48 hours of information with quick access. The entire guide will update every four hours when in Standby.



Instant Program Information

Local Link
Local off-air channels seamlessly mapped with DISH Network satellite programming.



Off-air Channel Scan
Scan or manually enter a digital over-the-air channel up to 99 when the receiver is set to "Off Air" in the HDTV setup menu



Program Search
When customers enter the search function the title of the program they are currently viewing will appear in the search text field. Customers have the option to search by program title or for key words within the extended program information and description.

Use the # (pound) key. The current program's title will be filled in. You can use that to search or clear it and type in another name.

Go to Menu, Themes & Search, Search. The keywords can be entered with your remote control alpha-numeric keys (cell-phone style) or using the right/left/up/down blue arrow buttons and Select to access the on-screen keyboard.



TV Enhancements




TV Enhancement is an icon or text message box notifying the customer that there is interactive content available.




Menu Functions

Alternative language and Descriptive Video support



Descriptive Video is an audio narration, which provides the listening audience with descriptions of scenes, settings, costumes and body language in the natural pauses of dialogue or songs. It is being offered as a service for the visually impaired.



Caller ID
Displays caller information on the TV screen. Must have a phone line plugged in and a subscription with the local telephone company. Will show on a VCR tape if information pops up while recording.



Closed Caption support (not available on some HD content)

DISH CD Music Song Titling

Event Timer
Tells VCR to record, automatically tunes into a pre-programmed channel when it starts, or gives you an on-screen reminder of a designated program's starting time.



Favorites Lists
120 channels distributed among 4 user defined lists allows customers to view guide information for only those channels that set in the Favorite List.



Hide Lock Channels
The Hide Lock Channels option allows customers to hide locked channels from the EPG.



Parental Control Locks
V-chip technology for Parental Control based on ratings and content. Separate locks are available for adult and PPV.



Pay-Per-View purchase summary

Theme categories for program selection

Transparent Info Banner
A transparent Info Banner provides on-screen channel and program info.




HD/SD Aspects

Delivers high-definition and standard-definition programming.
High-definition content can be viewed using HD outputs, or HD content is automatically down-converted for viewing using SD outputs.
Standard-definition can be viewed using SD outputs, or SD content is automatically upconverted for viewing using HD outputs.



Integrated 8PSK tuner for viewing of expanded high-definition and standard-definition programming.

Integrated 8VSB off-air analog/digital tuner.
For reception of off-air analog broadcasts and off-air digital broadcasts (including high-definition).



High-definition component video output (YPrPb).
The most widely used HDTV video interface.



DVI-HDTV/DishDVI video output.
Allows you to display programming on DVI-enabled high-definition television monitors.



Supports all 18 ATSC (8VSB) input formats.
Outputs both 720p and 1080i HDTV resolutions in addition to 480i SDTV resolutions. 1080i and 720p HDTV formats represent the ultimate in picture quality offered by our HDTV standard.



Five methods to adapt a non-HD 4:3 image to a 16:9 HDTV screen.
Manipulates a 4:3 image to fill the screen simply by toggling the asterisk button on the remote control.

Zoom - Proportionally expands the non 16:9 image horizontally and vertically to fill the 16:9 screen.

Stretch - Expands the non 16:9 image horizontally to fill the 16:9 screen

Partial Zoom - A hybrid of the Zoom and Stretch modes that minimizes cropping effect of the zoom mode and image distortion of the stretch mode.

Normal - each side of a 4:3 image can be masked with black bars

Gray bars - each side of a 4:3 image can be masked with gray bars



Technical Aspects

Software Version Control
Software Version Control will allow some receivers to self-maintain their software version.



Advanced MPEG-2/DVB compliant
Method to compress digital signals. This way, the amount of information that has to be sent decreases. MPEG is a compression method. Thanks to this compression, it is possible to combine several channels onto one satellite transponder.



Front Panel Buttons (10)
Power, Sys Info, Info, Cancel, Menu, Channel Up, Channel Down, Select, Cursor Left, Cursor Right



Front Panel Lights (3)
Power (green), Satellite Signal (blue), Off-air Signal (amber)



Low Battery Indicator
If the remote control batteries are low, a small "Low Battery" text indicator appears in the view banner whenever the view banner is displayed.



IR Blaster
Sends an infrared command to VCR to record programmed shows.



8.0 UHF Pro Universal Remote (1)

Software upgrades via satellite

Smart Card door (a Smart Card is not used; Smart Card technology is built into the receiver)

Standby Reset
Standby Reset helps to reduce problems by clearing errors encountered over the previous 24 hours.



System Information available at a button push
Press the Sys Info button on the receiver.



Wireless Phone Jack support

Connectivity

(1) Satellite antenna input, blue F-connector
(1) TV antenna/cable input, black F-connector
(2) Set RCA-type audio/video inputs
(2) Set RCA-type audio/video outputs (SDTV)
(1) S-Video Output (SDTV)
(1) Set YPrPb High-definition Component output (HDTV)
(1) DVI-HDTV/DishDVI output (HDTV)
(1) Dolby Digital/PCM digital optical output
(1) Telephone jack
3-prong power cord

Sincerely

Mark H.

Technical Support

Dish Network

[David Stern]

Front Panel Lights (3)
Power (green), Satellite Signal (blue), Off-air Signal (amber)

That is incredible. 3 of them?

[Markusian]

8.0 UHF Pro Universal Remote (1)



UHF remote? In the first message of this thread Scott said:




Unlike the 6000 the 811 will have a infrared universal remote control (Not a UHF)



So, which one is correct? :confused:

[gpflepsen]

UHF remote? In the first message of this thread Scott said:




So, which one is correct? :confused:

I'm going with Mark H. Always active Composite will enable the 811 to feed my BDRM tv. Yea! :)

[Gruber22]

"Favorites Lists
120 channels distributed among 4 user defined lists allows customers to view guide information for only those channels that set in the Favorite List."


Does this mean that there are 120 channels total for 4 lists or 30 channels per list? Thats what my 6+ year old 4000 does now!! My in laws basic model has the newer style where you just check mark any channels for each list - with no limit on # of channels per list!

Apart from this possible snafu, I am really looking forward to this box - and I'm only going to be hooking it up (at least for a year or so) to a 35 inch regular analog tv. Local digital and analog in the EPG with other dish channels - too cool!

Does anyone know if 16x9 HD output via svideo to 4x3 will have BLACK or GREY letterboxing?

[Gruber22]

"(2) Set RCA-type audio/video inputs"


What are composite INPUTS used for? Examples of how anyone else uses (or would use) them?

(Maybe these are mapped to a channel in the EPG? Or used with firewire for recording?)

[Hemway]

They said that you can map OTA channels, but my question is, if the 811 lose its signal, do you lose the ability to watch OTA channels also?

Everytime we have a big storm out here, we lose the satellite signal for 10-20 minutes. I currently get my locals from *E* and lose them, but if I go the 811 route, I'll drop the locals in favor of OTA because of the HDTV OTA tuner built in. If I lose those during a storm, it becomes a hard sell to the wife to invest more money into watching TV.

Does anyone know if this is the case?

[gpflepsen]

No SAT signal = No OTA viewing. They said so at the July Tech chat. They don't want people using subsidized receivers as OTA HD tuners.

[Gruber22]

No SAT signal = No OTA viewing. They said so at the July Tech chat. They don't want people using subsidized receivers as OTA HD tuners.

It sure seams that they could address both issues by somehow allowing the OTA digital tuner (and analog OTA, but not as important) to be operational for some specified time frame (1 hour maybe?) after a potential signal loss.

[Hemway]

That sucks.

So let me see if I got this right, I spent $299 (or more) for a piece of hardware (811) that I own but only works when it gets a signal from Dish, I pay for a new Superdish (cost unknown) to receive the signal from Dish, plus I pay for an OTA antenna to receive the OTA signals, plus I pay an extra monthly fee to Dish for their HDTV signal and I can't use the receiver for OTA reception if there is a lose of signal, man my wife is going to be giving me all kinds of crap. Dish better come up with one hell of a package (hardware and viewing) to make me go the HDTV route with them.

[gpflepsen]

I don't see why the OTA enable can't be controlled via the smart card. If you have the receiver active on your account, you get OTA HD. The way they have it set up now, someone (who is not a Dish customer) can just point a dish at any satellite and enable the 811 or 6000 OTA tuner.

Why not have the smart card enable the OTA tuner? Seems like a better solution for dish and it's customers.

[bbobbitt]

Is it true that you will need 2 separate dishes to recieve both the "America's Top 150" and HDTV? :confused:

[Gruber22]

Is it true that you will need 2 separate dishes to recieve both the "America's Top 150" and HDTV? :confused:


No, just one new SUPER DISH with 3 LNB's, available sometime soon.

[scottchez]

[If you loose the Dish signal you loose the Over the Air OTA]

What about some kind of Time Delay here for emergencies?

I live in the Mid West. We have Tornados.

Durring T-Storms we get Rain fade.

We would miss the Severe T-Storm and Tornado Warnings as the TV would go out also.

If they made it so you had about an Half Hour delay before the Box cut the OTA due to no signal that would be great (for safety reasons).

[Bobby94928]

[If you loose the Dish signal you loose the Over the Air OTA]

What about some kind of Time Delay here for emergencies?

I live in the Mid West. We have Tornados.

Durring T-Storms we get Rain fade.

We would miss the Severe T-Storm and Tornado Warnings as the TV would go out also.

If they made it so you had about an Half Hour delay before the Box cut the OTA due to no signal that would be great (for safety reasons).

It's been a while since I lived in Tornado Alley, Wichita Falls, TX. I'm thinking that anyone who lives in tornado, hurricane, earthquake country and doesn't have a portable radio isn't using common sense.

TV is not the only method of transmitting emergency information. What happens if the TV tower gets blown down? You go to radio, yes? Of course the radio tower can also go down, but hey, you make do with what is available.

[scottchez]

The radio stations out here in Nebraska do not seem to have a clue as to what a bad storm is.

All the certified experts are on TV.


An besides, sometimes the TV stations give you can extra 1 Hour warning time saying a Tornado is nearby in an other county with the storm track heading this way.

Radio can not provide this service.

[harsh]

Radio can not provide this service.

Radio can provide anything they want to (short of a video image). They just aren't motivated for some reason.

[gpflepsen]

That is where AM radio fills a niche.

[Bill D]

Regardless radio/Tv for tornado warnings, the smart card activation is a better way to activate/deactivate the OTA tuner.

[Pocatello]

Yes, it seems so simple to me.

If you have your smart card activated, paid for, and functioning, your OTA should not go away. At least a 24 hour grace period is not unreasonable.

[harsh]

Regardless radio/Tv for tornado warnings, the smart card activation is a better way to activate/deactivate the OTA tuner.How does using the smart card solve the issue of "misuse" of the OTA tuner?

Let's assume that I were to buy an 811 and I subscribed to a year of service. After "activation", I disconnect the receiver from the dish and cancel my subscription. The receiver is mine and I can presumably use it anywhere I want.

The clock most likely won't be able to set itself so it is questionable as to whether or not anything can "expire". It is conceivable that there is an onboard battery backed clock, but until a new "program" comes down from a dish that isn't connected, what's going to change the programming?

[gpflepsen]

They should require once a month phone ins to keep receivers active. Wow, what a concept.

[harsh]

They should require once a month phone ins to keep receivers active. Wow, what a concept.It may be a wonderful concept, but it may not be that simple to implement. Chances are that any kind of programming changes must come down from the satellite. If you disconnect, that can't happen.

AFAIK the only reason that a receiver dials out is to send a human-generated order (payment, PPV, upgrade) or as part of running the system diagnostic. I don't believe there are currently any scheduled events where the IRD "phones home". The person who installed the system in my home didn't make any provision for a telephone connection (although I read that it is part of the installation service).

Does anyone have evidence that you can obtain a PPV without the IRD successfully dialing out? On digital cable boxes, the current crop of PPV theft tools don't allow the receiver to contact the head end and the receiver "buffers" a number of events before it "locks up".

I have heard unsubstantiated rumors of a system utilized by Brand X satellite provider that creates a call-in event to thwart those who are seeking to avoid sports blackouts. The theory is that you can lie about your address, but it is a lot harder to generate a phone call coming from the fake address. In that case, the sequence is presumably initiated by a signal sent down on the satellite which wouldn't work here.

[Martyva]

I think the no Sat=no OTA didn't refer to the signal, but the paying for the satellite service. I think Huntsville recently replaced our city (totoland) as having the highest frequency of tornados. We were lowered to number 2 for the first time in many years and if droughts continue may move down the list even more. Of course no water means no people?.

[Hemway]

Here's where I'm having a problem with the 811 not processing OTA locals if the receiver loses or is disconnected from the satellite signal.

I am going to have to PAY $299 or more for the 811. In addition to that, I'm going to have to replace my Dish 500 with the Superdish, cost unknown, and install and OTA antenna for the locals. This receiver will be able to process both standard and HD satellite signals providing I subscribe to the services, and will also be able to process OTA local HD signals as long as the satellite side of the box has a legitimate subscription. That's where I have a problem. I paid for the receiver. If I choose to no longer subscribe to the satellite signal, the receiver should still process the OTA HD signals.

I can buy an OTA standalone HD receiver for the same price as the 811. Yes it won't get the satellite HD signals, but guess what, there isn't that much up there now. $10 a month, which breaks down to $2.50 a channel, is kind of high, which would lead me to believe that as they add more HD programming, the price will go up.

[BobMurdoch]

Playing Devil's Advocate here......

I'm sure E* will argue that they are subsidizing part of the receiver as there costs are higher than what they are charging but they hope to make it up long term via programming fees.

If you don't like the cost based on the active subscription limitation than I would recommend trying to find a OTA tuner for the same cost or cheaper. I haven't shopped for one lately, but last I checked they were several hundred dollars MORE than the 811 will cost.

[marko]

Actually, they have come down in cost quite a bit I think. I've seen threads on other forums where you pick up a lower samsung model new for $219 at Costco.

[BobMurdoch]

I stand corrected.

So there IS another route for anyone to go if they don't want to be forced to subscribe for OTA access on their TVs.

[tahoerob]

I can buy an OTA standalone HD receiver for the same price as the 811. Yes it won't get the satellite HD signals, but guess what, there isn't that much up there now. $10 a month, which breaks down to $2.50 a channel, is kind of high, which would lead me to believe that as they add more HD programming, the price will go up.

After this coming Monday's Tech\Charlie Chat we will know how many NEW HD channels will be up & available.
It appears that HDNet, HDMovies, & prob. STARZHD (?3 channels), ?Bravo HD, ?ESPN-HD will all be broadcasting with new SuperDish. Also, rumors for the InHD channels as well.

Already have HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, Discovery HD, PPV-HD, Events-HD (NBA,NHL), & CBS-HD (for some) available.

That makes the new 811\SuperDish a better deal.

:lol:

[EatingPie]

My big reason for going with Dish would be recording capability. The announcement of the 811 WITH Firewire is sweet... but then there's the followup post that says it comes WITHOUT Firewire.

So, which is it...??

One note is that I just received a Sound and Vision magazine and they have info on the 921, stating that it will have Firewire, but Dish won't enable it until *next year*!!

That might explain the conflicting reports for the 811. But that's bad news for me, since I want to record stuff like HD-HBO and I was hoping these new boxes would work with D-VHS from the getgo.

I'm a newbie here, so I don't know how the Charlie Chat works... but if it's possible for someone to ask about *enabled* Firewire on the 811, that'd rock.

-Pie

[Ken_F]

EatingPie,

It was implied at the previous tech chat that the 921 had Firewire, but the 811 did not. I believe that information was confirmed.

[Hemway]

I just read a post at another site that in a Dish press release, they said the 811 will have a MSRP of $399! There was no mention of the cost for a Superdish. If that is going to cost, let's say, another $100, that puts the cost for the 811 at over $500 when you include tax, shipping (if any), and installation. Release of the 811 isn’t expected until November 1st.

I've seen DirecTV HDTV equipment packages out on the net for $399 installed. I'm still trying to find out if the DirecTV HD receivers will still process OTA HD signals if the receiver is disconnected form the satellite.

As for programming, both Dish and DirecTV have the same HD programming in their packages. I don't subscribe to HBO, Showtime, etc, now because I still go to the movies and rent DVD's, so why pay for something I don't need.

I’ll just wait to see what Dish has to say on Monday.

[Chris Freeland]

I just read a post at another site that in a Dish press release, they said the 811 will have a MSRP of $399! There was no mention of the cost for a Superdish. If that is going to cost, let's say, another $100, that puts the cost for the 811 at over $500 when you include tax, shipping (if any), and installation. Release of the 811 isn’t expected until November 1st.

I've seen DirecTV HDTV equipment packages out on the net for $399 installed. I'm still trying to find out if the DirecTV HD receivers will still process OTA HD signals if the receiver is disconnected form the satellite.

As for programming, both Dish and DirecTV have the same HD programming in their packages. I don't subscribe to HBO, Showtime, etc, now because I still go to the movies and rent DVD's, so why pay for something I don't need.

I’ll just wait to see what Dish has to say on Monday.

According to E* dealers at this site that $399 price for the 811 includes the SuperDish. The $299 price that was mentioned on the tech-chat a couple of months back was for a standalone 811, however the first ones available will be complete systems including the dish. Virtually every sub new and current who purchase's the 811, will need the SuperDish since all future HDTV programing will be going to 105. In addition their likely will be some promotions with programing comitments that will likely bring the price down some more.

[gpflepsen]

If E* is requiring the sale of the Superdish with the 811, that could be a strategy to promote Superdish's use. Then, in the future when HD at 110 goes dark the number of HD subscribers (at 110) will not be very large. That plus debuting new HD on 105 will motivate the 110 users to move to 105. If I was paying $10 and could only receive 1/2 the HD and no HD special events I'd move to 105.

Also, I suspect when they said in July's tech chat we'd have to pay, the $399 811 is the result.

Does anyone know if Superdish will be a cast or pressed dish? Cast would be way more expensive to produce than a stamped dish.

[EatingPie]

It was implied at the previous tech chat that the 921 had Firewire, but the 811 did not. I believe that information was confirmed.

Well that's bad news. The 811 would have been a reasonable solution for me to move to Dish from cable.

Any info on Firewire being enabled on the 921? If Sound and Vision is right, then it's all bad news for recording HD.

-Pie

[VISITING]

Just Got Back From CEDIA. The 811 On Display Did Not
Have Firewire Asked If There Would Be Was Told No.
Also For Those Who Are Familiar With The Red Product
Lineup Brochures That Dish Puts Out At Trade Shows
And Team Summit. There Was A Comparison Chart Of All
Models In The New Lineup And Firewire Is Not A Feature
Of The 811.

For Those That Are Interested The Models
Listed Are The 111, 311, 322, 510, 522, 811, And 921.
The 721 Is Being Replaced By The 522. Was Told It Hasn't
Been Real Popular. Wonder Why? Price Maybe... I Would
Mention Reliability But The Average Customer Doesn't
Know About That Unless They Visit These Sites Or A Dealer
Tells Them So. Also The 211 Is Dead In The Water Was Told
That Mitsubishi Wouldn't Support It. Mitsubishi Told Me
That Echostar Wanted Mitsubishi To Put Its Name On The
Box. Personally Support Should Have Nothing To Do With
It If The Box Is DTVlink Compliant There Shouldn't Be An
Issue With Any Tv.

Another Interesting Note Directv Was
Showing The Hd Tivo Box It Will Have Dual Tuner Hd Sat
And Dual Digital Off Air As Well. Directv Also Said When
It Is Released It Will Have An HDMI Connector But No
Firewire. I Asked What About Using A Recorder, Adding
Hard-drives, Or Distributing Hd Through Out The Home
To Other Tv's I Was Basically Told To Bad. However The
Next Day I Was Passing The Booth And Stopped And Listened
To People Asking Questions. 2 Times Someone Looked
Behind At The Back Panel And The Rep Replied What
Sounded Like HDMI And Firewire Would Be Added When
Released. I Might Have Heard It Wrong But Maybe Enough
People Asked That The Point Got Across.

I ALSO VISITED THE 1394 TRADE ASSOCIATIONS BOOTH
ACCORDING TO THE REP ALL HD DIGITAL BOXES HAD TO INCLUDE
FIREWIRE BY 2005. I ASKED IF THAT ONLY APPLIED TO CABLE
AND NOT SATELLITE BOXES. I WAS TOLD THAT SATELLITE HAD TO
CONFORM AS WELL. I AM ASSUMING IF THAT IS TRUE THAT FUTURE MODELS WILL HAVE IT OR THE CURRENT MODELS WILL
BE REVISED KINDA LIKE THE 6000 TO 6000U OR 4700 TO 4900.

[Mark Lamutt]

Thanks for the report, Visiting. I had been wondering what happened to the 211.

[HTguy]

According to E* dealers at this site that $399 price for the 811 includes the SuperDish. The $299 price that was mentioned on the tech-chat a couple of months back was for a standalone 811, however the first ones available will be complete systems including the dish. Virtually every sub new and current who purchase's the 811, will need the SuperDish since all future HDTV programing will be going to 105. In addition their likely will be some promotions with programing comitments that will likely bring the price down some more.
AS you may have heard already, we weren't exactly right altho the net result is the same for most people.

It turns out that the $399 is for the 811 receiver only. (FWIW, I personally didn't believe the $299 when 1st announced but that is definately what they said a few months ago.)

But the good news is that the SuperDish will be free (including installation) with a 12 month comittment to AT50 + the HD PAK (or locals on SuperDish) as required.

So you can still get a 811 + SD for $399 with a 12 month agreement.

[Chris Freeland]

AS you may have heard already, we weren't exactly right altho the net result is the same for most people.

It turns out that the $399 is for the 811 receiver only. (FWIW, I personally didn't believe the $299 when 1st announced but that is definately what they said a few months ago.)

But the good news is that the SuperDish will be free (including installation) with a 12 month commitment to AT50 + the HD PAK (or locals on SuperDish) as required.

So you can still get a 811 + SD for $399 with a 12 month agreement.

I noticed that too, but like you said it still comes out that way anyway and besides, Charlie said their would be a current sub promotion to be announced latter. I am happy that once Chattanooga locals are added I will be able to get the Superdish for Free with simply a commitment for 1 year to AT50 w/locals or above w/locals.

[dendavis]

I have a Sony KP-57WS500, which is HDTV-capable; a DISH 301 receiver (and another DISH 1000) on the DISH 500 program, with a SW 64 switch, two antennae (the second installed by DISH for local channel option) tuned to 110/119/148; and two Phillips TiVo receivers. I want to upgrade to HDTV when the 811 comes out, based on what I have been reading here. I want to keep TiVo, for the season pass capability, and I purchased lifetime subscriptions to both TiVo units when I got them.

I had to install IR "tents" for both DISH receivers, as there is a conflict with the IR signal which prevents the TiVo from changing channels. With the IR window shield from Xantech, and a lot of black elex. tape, they work fine. My concern is whether the 811 will operate with the TiVo in the same way. I would be receiving all my signals, HDTV and DTV/local channels, via DISH. Since TiVo does not have a HDTV-compatible unit, I am unsure how the TiVo and/or the 811 would handle two different inputs.

Any help appreciated.