This what makes me Crazy about tech writers

[LarryFlowers]

Check this article out, it was written by our friend Jason Perlow http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9352&tag=nl.e550

This is the kind of article that makes me crazy.. "How to ruin a perfectly good Sunday with Windows Vista". Read the article. Vista has nothing to do with the problem.

Course you probably wouldn't get as many hits about wasting a Sunday afternoon on an HP all in one or how my father in law screwed up his PC by failing to upgrade his antivirus.

[Tom Robertson]

I guess the title writer could have meant it was going to be a perfect Sunday afternoon with Vista rather than how many of us have implied it meant ruined because of Vista. :)

Sure seems a lot of "woe is me, I have to help my (ignorant) parents" ranting and angst. Not very much "Wow, I still have mom and dad, I am happy to help them." With a "oops, I guess they did a typical silly thing (turning off Norton), I'm glad I could help them with that too."

I've done my share of virus cleanups for friends, family, etc. I don't blame the OS, EVERY operating system with more than two users has virii. I've freaked out a number of people showing them how their religious choice of OS has just as many incident reports as any other. It ain't the OS fault!

Nor is it really his father's fault, per se. But there is this "woe is me."

Now I ask, what other options for virus scanners should he have installed for his dad--when the computer was acquired? No mention of that. Was there a free one that comes with his parents ISP? No blame of self for not doing a complete job in the first place. Just "woe is me...Vista's fault..."

Ah, well. I've ranted enough. Or I'll start sounding like "Woe is me." That would be my fault. :)

We do have a pretty snow here today. Enough to look white and pretty, not too much to make the roads extremely dangerous.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

[deltafowler]

From the article, "Total time investment to clean up the mess? We arrived at 1PM, it was now 5:30".

It took this yahoo 4.5 hours to clean up a system?
That tells me all I need to know about his level of expertise. It's all in his head.
I'm sure he seems like a computer god to the septuagenarian in-laws, but he's obviously a witless hack. One of those quirky Linux guys who happened to get a lucky install of Ubuntu going, and now deems himself a deity of geekdom.

That said, HP will, by default, attempt to install WAY too much software just to get a printer/scanner/fax going.

[Tom Robertson]

Careful, sometimes downloading all the upgrades to XP and Vista, from a very old state, can take hours of downloads and reboots. Especially if the ISP isn't very fast.

And I remember the first time I ran into one of those nasty Virii that required several boots to safe mode to erradicate, that took me many hours to research. Mostly because I hadn't done any cleanups for a long time, not because of my lack of skills. I'm not afraid to say I was ignorant--at the time.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

[phat78boy]

Totally agree, there wasn't one part in his whole story that was a problem with Vista.

On another note, if all he used was Gmail and Scottstrade wouldn't a system restore or reload have been quicker? O well, some people like manual cleaning.

[Jason Perlow]

From the article, "Total time investment to clean up the mess? We arrived at 1PM, it was now 5:30".

It took this yahoo 4.5 hours to clean up a system?
That tells me all I need to know about his level of expertise. It's all in his head.


Perhaps I forgot to mention the performance characteristics of my Father-in-law's laptop. It's a very low-level Celeron system, a single 1.7ghz core with 1GB of RAM and a low-throughput 80GB hard disk. I did link to it, but maybe you didn't click on it. Here's the specs (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2903292).

Try running Vista with that many performance constraints and then muck it up with tons of spyware and viruses, clean it up pristine, and then have to install SP1 and months of post-SP1 patches all on it at one time. I think you'll get close to that 4.5 hour number. :)

[Jason Perlow]

Check this article out, it was written by our friend Jason Perlow http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9352&tag=nl.e550

This is the kind of article that makes me crazy.. "How to ruin a perfectly good Sunday with Windows Vista". Read the article. Vista has nothing to do with the problem.


It's funny that you say that, because shortly after that article was published, I got a number of frantic emails from several people in HP's product engineering group that would love to blame ALL of my negative experiences with their product on Vista. :hurah:

[Jason Perlow]

Totally agree, there wasn't one part in his whole story that was a problem with Vista.

On another note, if all he used was Gmail and Scottstrade wouldn't a system restore or reload have been quicker? O well, some people like manual cleaning.

Reload with what, exactly? Asus doesn't supply a restore CD with the system. I'm not lending him any of my MSDN entitlements!

The next time the machine exhibits problems he's going back to Ubuntu. :hurah:

[Tom Robertson]

Jason,

Asus didn't have a restore section on the hard disk? Major bummer. :(

I wondered if you might have passed on the restore option because of other files on the disk, which of course would have been trashed on a restore.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

[Jason Perlow]

Jason,

Asus didn't have a restore section on the hard disk? Major bummer. :(

I wondered if you might have passed on the restore option because of other files on the disk, which of course would have been trashed on a restore.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

Tom:

It's a very low end unit, so no, no original CAB files or an ISO to burn. Yeah, we could have gotten him a nicer unit, but these people are on a limited income, they're retirees, and the only one who needs a "decent" machine is my MIL.

It's questionable whether it would have taken me longer to do a backup of his essential data (some 20GB + digital photos and myriad other files), re-install his OS, restore his files, and re-customize his icons and settings for him again than to do the cleanup. I opted to clean the box up -- and once I got started, and realized how long it was going to take to finish, I was an hour and a half into the mess. When it comes to your own family -- especially your in laws -- you don't really have the option of saying "to hell with this". My time to do this kind of stuff given my busy schedule is extremely limited, and I only get to see these people once a month at best.

Honestly, I've done enterprise software deployments that were less painful.

[Tom Robertson]

Completely understand everything you said. My MIL is running on a very old computer for similar reasons. She doesn't need anything else.

And I suspected the constraints you dealt with. (Been there, done that.) :)

Merry Christmas!
Tom
Tom:

It's a very low end unit, so no, no original CAB files or an ISO to burn. Yeah, we could have gotten him a nicer unit, but these people are on a limited income, they're retirees, and the only one who needs a "decent" machine is my MIL.

It's questionable whether it would have taken me longer to do a backup of his essential data (some 20GB + digital photos and myriad other files), re-install his OS, restore his files, and re-customize his icons and settings for him again than to do the cleanup. I opted to clean the box up -- and once I got started, and realized how long it was going to take to finish, I was an hour and a half into the mess. When it comes to your own family -- especially your in laws -- you don't really have the option of saying "to hell with this". My time to do this kind of stuff given my busy schedule is extremely limited, and I only get to see these people once a month at best.

Honestly, I've done enterprise software deployments that were less painful.

[LarryFlowers]

That's a popular sport for a lot of vendors... to them I say, Vista has been with us a long time, get over it.

Thankfully it looks like Windows 7 wont require new drivers...

I have an Asus laptop, I like it a lot, but their support is not very useful and their support web site can take "days" (not really but it really drags) to come up.. did you make an image when you finished?

Merry Christmas
Larry


It's funny that you say that, because shortly after that article was published, I got a number of frantic emails from several people in HP's product engineering group that would love to blame ALL of my negative experiences with their product on Vista. :hurah:

[deltafowler]

Perhaps I forgot to mention the performance characteristics of my Father-in-law's laptop. It's a very low-level Celeron system, a single 1.7ghz core with 1GB of RAM and a low-throughput 80GB hard disk. I did link to it, but maybe you didn't click on it. Here's the specs (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2903292).



Two tools required. Three if you count yourself as a tool ;)

Autoruns from MS Technet (nothing hides from it) (free)
Malwarebytes and latest definistions from malwarebytes.org (free)
You - Armed with a rudimentary knowledge of what the heck you're doing.... Safe Mode - Turn off System restore. Delete Temp files and Temp Internet files before doing any scans. Use autoruns to disable the startups that are obvious garbage.
Quick scan with malwarebytes - delete what it finds.
Restart and check for further problems. Run a full scan (optional).
You may on occasion have to repair the LSP's.

Total cleanup time - ~1 hour

[Tom Robertson]

And updating Windows XP or Vista from a long time ago: (especially on a slow ISP) many hours to days. :) (Or should that be :()

[deltafowler]

Reload with what, exactly? Asus doesn't supply a restore CD with the system. I'm not lending him any of my MSDN entitlements!


Look around and find something called orbit30 in 1 DVD.
Problem solved.

[deltafowler]

And updating Windows XP or Vista from a long time ago: (especially on a slow ISP) many hours to days. :) (Or should that be :()

I carry SP3, along with the other tools of the trade, with me.
From there, it's a short trip.
If they have dialup, I don't even work on it at their location. it's an automatic trip to the bench.

[Jason Perlow]

Two tools required. Three if you count yourself as a tool ;)

Autoruns from MS Technet (nothing hides from it) (free)
Malwarebytes and latest definistions from malwarebytes.org (free)
You - Armed with a rudimentary knowledge of what the heck you're doing.... Safe Mode - Turn off System restore. Delete Temp files and Temp Internet files before doing any scans. Use autoruns to disable the startups that are obvious garbage.
Quick scan with malwarebytes - delete what it finds.
Restart and check for further problems. Run a full scan (optional).
You may on occasion have to repair the LSP's.

Total cleanup time - ~1 hour


Next time, total cleanup will be 20 minutes. Install Ubuntu, create restricted user account, customize icons. Done. :hurah: Crank that to one hour if I have to back up and restore his files, and configure his ScottTrade manually, which requires JVM support.

None of the options you mention will stop a end-user from blowing up their own system, and Vista makes it far too easy if someone is inexperienced or has no inclination to learn about using his computer -- like my Father-in-law.

Arguably, XP is equally as susceptible to "dumb user" problems as Vista is. He blew up his older XP machine on several occasions as well. But I find that Vista facilitates an inexperienced user to damage their machine much quicker than XP -- the UAC prompts are misleading, even for "experienced" users. I can speak with authority with having to deal with very large organizations now piloting Vista desktop installs and finding that their IT practices which worked great with XP now have to be retooled completely for Vista desktops, and the OS behavior isn't what they expected and have to create new processes entirely to protect users from ruining systems.

[Tom Robertson]

I carry SP3, along with the other tools of the trade, with me.
From there, it's a short trip.
If they have dialup, I don't even work on it at their location. it's an automatic trip to the bench.

Obviously you do this far more often than Jason or I. I don't have the SP3 on a disk handy to carry around.

[Jason Perlow]

That's a popular sport for a lot of vendors... to them I say, Vista has been with us a long time, get over it.

Thankfully it looks like Windows 7 wont require new drivers...

I have an Asus laptop, I like it a lot, but their support is not very useful and their support web site can take "days" (not really but it really drags) to come up.. did you make an image when you finished?

Merry Christmas
Larry

Nope. But I backed up his files so that when I reformat it with Linux on the next occasion, it will save me a half an hour. :lol:

[Mark Holtz]

I've assisted with a DSL install. The expected install time: 2 hours including wireless setup (AT&T DSL Modems, by default, use WEP excryption. However, WPA2 is supported.), and memory upgrade.

Thanks to all of the updates, it turned into all evening affair.

[Jason Perlow]

Obviously you do this far more often than Jason or I. I don't have the SP3 on a disk handy to carry around.

I keep SP3, as well as XP SP3 integrated (MSDN build) and and various MSDN flavors of Vista with me when I do house calls for friends. The problem of course is that you can't just reformat a system with an MSDN build and expect their existing CD-Key to take. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It depends on the OEM license scheme used originally used to build the box from the manufacturer's image. Often OEM CD-Keys will not work with virgin install media, even if Windows is the same "edition" (aka Home, Professional, Ultimate)

Often enough, I end up having to bypass WGA authentication with a crack. As of XP SP3, Microsoft has introduced this to combat piracy -- it's not particularly effective. As far as I am concerned if they have a legit copy of windows, if I have to re-install it, I want to start with a fully patched version.

[deltafowler]

None of the options you mention will stop a end-user from blowing up their own system,


And that wasn't the topic when I posted them.
They are cleanup tools that are both fast and 100% effective when used by knowledgeable people. Just trying to point out that there are better ways to deal with cleanups than to sit and watch scans for four hours.

As you well know, you cannot bullet proof any system, including Linux distros, from users bent on screwing them up.

If you want the binary equivalent of a cast iron chastity belt for your father-in-law, I suggest you install Deep Freeze and don't give him the password.

[Mark Holtz]

Anyone remembers the Friends, Family, and Friends of the Family support plan? I'm fixing up two computers for one of my mom's good friends.

It began with the call to my mother. I get home, and she said that her friend Leanna has no Internet connectivity. Out the door I go. Turns out to be a combo of a DSL modem needing a power cycle combined with MySearch bar. I also had to install all of the updates, replaced an expired Nortons with free AVG, and put in SuperAntiSpyware. Several hours later, it is running much better, and I have sweet-talked her into a $70 memory upgrade from 512MB to 2 GB.

Of course, she gives me a "dead" Vaio laptop, which she says "If you can get it running, you can have it." Turns out that the power brick was bad, and a co-worker has a loaner. The system had some nasty AdWare (anyone hear of "Free DriveSpace 06" or "CiD Help"), and didn't even have anti-virus on there. (fixed now). Of course, WIndows Update hasn't been run in ages, never mind SP3.

Anyone got any 512MB PC2700 for laptops around? :)

[BattleZone]

Anyone got any 512MB PC2700 for laptops around? :)

No, just a pile of 256MBs... :lol:

[Stuart Sweet]

Remember, buying, selling, or trading is prohibited at this forum except within the Buy/Sell/Trade forum.

[mmccaugh]

I've done my fair share of fixing PC's for family members, it never really bothers me unless I get the scattered person who gets snotty when I don't drop everything to fix their problem immediately.

As for the Woe is me factor, I used to have that, then I came to terms with the fact that if everyone had the skills to do what I take for granted as common sense, I'd be making $6 an hour to do it.

So really it's a blessing in disguise.

[Stuart Sweet]

ThinkGeek used to have a t-shirt that said "NO, I will not fix your computer for you."

[HDJulie]

ThinkGeek used to have a t-shirt that said "NO, I will not fix your computer for you."

I have that shirt :-)