DirectSatUSA 30' Ladder Policies

[jpitlick]

Is anyone on this forum a DirectSatUSA employee or know about their policies regarding long ladders? This is just a general question.

My reason for asking is everytime I have an installer out (luckily it isn't too frequently), I always have problems when they need to access my dish which is on the roof. I live in a 3 story townhouse with coax feeds on the northeast corner, so the dish could not be mounted on my deck. I learned early on to tell DirecTV's CSRs to make a note in the work order (which they have) to have the technician bring a 30' ladder. Only one time has the technician brought the 30' ladder to the initial scheduled appointment. Every other time, they end up having to call their supervisor and reschedule. I have had installers/technicians out for maybe half a dozen actual events (initial install, HD upgrade, second HD upgrade [3 lnb to 5 lnb dish], dish realignment, damaged receiver). Each service call to DirecTV resulted in 2 to 3 visits by a technician. The first (and second) visit(s) ended with an unprepared technician. Usually, the third time was the charm. Recently, I have been told by the technicians that they need to evaluate the site and then call in a supervisor with a 30' ladder. What I don't understand is shouldn't they know by now that my installation needs the 30' ladder when they need to access my dish? I do not think I have ever had the same installer more than once, but it is always DirectSatUSA. Every visit, but the most recent visit required going to the roof.

I do not see how it is in anyones better interest to come unprepared. I realize that there can be disconnects between DirecTV and their contractors. I think there needs to be better communication between the contractor and the customer in these cases. I am sure that an installer would like to get paid for every call they make, not one out of three because they came unprepared.

Sorry to ramble, but I am just curious if there is a specific policy regarding 30' ladders with DirectSatUSA or if it is just the local office to me.

[curt8403]

Is anyone on this forum a DirectSatUSA employee or know about their policies regarding long ladders? This is just a general question.

My reason for asking is everytime I have an installer out (luckily it isn't too frequently), I always have problems when they need to access my dish which is on the roof. I live in a 3 story townhouse with coax feeds on the northeast corner, so the dish could not be mounted on my deck. I learned early on to tell DirecTV's CSRs to make a note in the work order (which they have) to have the technician bring a 30' ladder. Only one time has the technician brought the 30' ladder to the initial scheduled appointment. Every other time, they end up having to call their supervisor and reschedule. I have had installers/technicians out for maybe half a dozen actual events (initial install, HD upgrade, second HD upgrade [3 lnb to 5 lnb dish], dish realignment, damaged receiver). Each service call to DirecTV resulted in 2 to 3 visits by a technician. The first (and second) visit(s) ended with an unprepared technician. Usually, the third time was the charm. Recently, I have been told by the technicians that they need to evaluate the site and then call in a supervisor with a 30' ladder. What I don't understand is shouldn't they know by now that my installation needs the 30' ladder when they need to access my dish? I do not think I have ever had the same installer more than once, but it is always DirectSatUSA. Every visit, but the most recent visit required going to the roof.

I do not see how it is in anyones better interest to come unprepared. I realize that there can be disconnects between DirecTV and their contractors. I think there needs to be better communication between the contractor and the customer in these cases. I am sure that an installer would like to get paid for every call they make, not one out of three because they came unprepared.

Sorry to ramble, but I am just curious if there is a specific policy regarding 30' ladders with DirectSatUSA or if it is just the local office to me.


it seems to be a directv wide policy not to carry a 30 ft ladder unless it is requested, I see that issue all the time.

[jpitlick]

it seems to be a directv wide policy not to carry a 30 ft ladder unless it is requested, I see that issue all the time.

I get that and I know that a 30' ladder requires two people, but I request one every time I call in case they need to get to my dish.

Or is it not my request that counts? It is a waste of my time and the technician's time if he comes out to find out that he needs to reschedule and have his supervisor come out with a 30' ladder.

I got lucky with my service call yesterday. The technician showed up early and ended up not needing to access the dish, but again he could not have accessed it without calling his supervisor and rescheduling.

[puffnstuff]

I get that and I know that a 30' ladder requires two people

Why would a 30 foot ladder require 2 people ? I use a 40 everyday by myself and I'm not at all a big guy ( 5'6" , 170 lbs.) . I don't see why they just don't keep one on the truck .

[RobertE]

Not with Directsat, but I carry a 28, 16 & 2 footer.

Not sure why a 30 would be a special case. Our supervisors carry 40s. (ladder, not bottle :p ).

Company policy & I believe OSHA regs say that anything 30 or taller is a 2 man job.

[AntAltMike]

I've never heard of a 30 foot ladder. I have a 28, a 32 and a 40. I don't like to extend my 32 foot ladder beyond 27 feet because I weigh 245 pounds. I always buy ladders rated to 150 pound loads because I don't like hauling heavy ladders around, but when I get to the mid point, they bounce like a trampoline.

A 40 foot aluminum ladder rated for my bodyweight weighs nearly 100 pounds. I can handle such a ladder by myself as long as circumstances are favorable, but if I have to avoid crushing shrubbery or if there are overhead wires that prevent me from planting the bottom where the wall and ground meet and walking it up, I probably couldn't raise it by myself.

[jimmyv2000]

Have your own ladder HANDY! and you will be all set.
Tech shows up unprepared open garage or basement door and let the tech use yours.

[tcusta00]

Have your own ladder HANDY! and you will be all set.
Tech shows up unprepared open garage or basement door and let the tech use yours.

I'm pretty sure if he had one he'd have offered it.

[RobertE]

Have your own ladder HANDY! and you will be all set.
Tech shows up unprepared open garage or basement door and let the tech use yours.

I'll only use a customers step ladder (indoors). I will not use any other ladder the customer has. There is no way I can be assured of its condition. Not going to risk getting my insurance bounced and workers comp denied for using customer ladders.

[thespaceghost]

Have your own ladder HANDY! and you will be all set.
Tech shows up unprepared open garage or basement door and let the tech use yours.

Thats a very good point. If its such a problem for you, get your own ladder.

You can't expect techs to carry around large ladders like that everyday. I usually get 2 request a month on workorders for 40' ladders and only need to use one every 3 months. That is why you always need rescheduling.

I always steer customers away from putting dishes up so high, for this exact reasons and safety concerns. I had a customer once who didn't want it on his lawn and wanted it in a specific spot to hide it. I told him it was not a good idea due to service concerns. It was rescheduled and someone else eventually got it up. 6 months later I show up to the same guys house for a service call....and no 40' ladder.

[dave29]

I've never heard of a 30 foot ladder. I have a 28, a 32 and a 40. I don't like to extend my 32 foot ladder beyond 27 feet because I weigh 245 pounds. .

you are correct, extension ladders are made in 4' increments. so it would have to be a 32' ladder

[jpitlick]

Thats a very good point. If its such a problem for you, get your own ladder.

You can't expect techs to carry around large ladders like that everyday. I usually get 2 request a month on workorders for 40' ladders and only need to use one every 3 months. That is why you always need rescheduling.

I always steer customers away from putting dishes up so high, for this exact reasons and safety concerns. I had a customer once who didn't want it on his lawn and wanted it in a specific spot to hide it. I told him it was not a good idea due to service concerns. It was rescheduled and someone else eventually got it up. 6 months later I show up to the same guys house for a service call....and no 40' ladder.

First of all, unfortunately my dish is in the only location that works for my house.

To all, I misspoke. I always request a 40' ladder. Regardless, I know it is not standard issue for techs. That is why I have the CSR make a note for the tech to bring one. There is no reason the tech can't schedule the longer ladder before the appointment or call me to reschedule when the ladder is available.

Also, there are several reasons that I don't own a 40' ladder. Least of which is I don't have a single room long enough accommodate its storage. Even if I did own a long enough ladder to get to my roof, I wouldn't expect a DirecTV tech to use it for the reasons others stated.

[DtvSlave]

Having worked for DirectSat prior to going independent, I know that they issue their techs 28' ladders and 8' step ladders. Any job requiring the use of a bigger ladder i.e. a 40' ladder requires an automatic sup. truck roll.

For 2 reasons this happens. 1. because of the cost of the ladders they do not issue them to everyone just the sups. 2. Because of their past insurance claims due to size and weight of the 40' ladders, they require 2 people to setup the ladder and standby incase of a fall.

Because DirectSats work orders are not ran until late at night usually after 11 pm, and they are automated routing, most of the times sups. don't spool their routes till midnight so they don't know or care if there are additional notes on the work order. Most of the time it is easier for them to reschedule repeatedly then have to go out and stand for what could be hours until the tech is done with their job. Most sups. will not help the tech when they show up for a 40' other than with the setup and tear down of the ladder itself.

[Mod Edit: Redacted private company information]

[jpitlick]

Having worked for DirectSat prior to going independent, I know that they issue their techs 28' ladders and 8' step ladders. Any job requiring the use of a bigger ladder i.e. a 40' ladder requires an automatic sup. truck roll.

For 2 reasons this happens. 1. because of the cost of the ladders they do not issue them to everyone just the sups. 2. Because of their past insurance claims due to size and weight of the 40' ladders, they require 2 people to setup the ladder and standby incase of a fall.

Because DirectSats work orders are not ran until late at night usually after 11 pm, and they are automated routing, most of the times sups. don't spool their routes till midnight so they don't know or care if there are additional notes on the work order. Most of the time it is easier for them to reschedule repeatedly then have to go out and stand for what could be hours until the tech is done with their job. Most sups. will not help the tech when they show up for a 40' other than with the setup and tear down of the ladder itself.

[Mod Edit: Redacted private company information]

Thank you for the explanation. Unfortunately, that is not a good excuse and, from my perspective, not a good business practice. If I had a choice of installers, I would pick another company that can get the right equipment out at the scheduled time. If I had the means to do the install and service myself, I would, but my current situation does not allow it.

[jimmyv2000]

I'll only use a customers step ladder (indoors). I will not use any other ladder the customer has. There is no way I can be assured of its condition. Not going to risk getting my insurance bounced and workers comp denied for using customer ladders.

My ladder is less than 1 year old and is KEPTIndoors when not in use
plus its OSHA approved and all that fun stuff.I paid a pretty decent price for it

[NorfolkBruh]

DUDE!! I feel your pain! When I first got sat tv (back in 1999) I was told to make sure I requested a 40' ladder. I did and the tech showed up without one (I lived in a townhouse). I called retention and complained and they had a supe out the next morning... they were very good about that back then!

I moved from that town to brownstone in a nearby city and made the same request via movers connection. I had the CSR read back the notes to me. I then called the next morning and confirmed it was on the notes. 2 days before the install I called the install company and confirmed the tech would need a 40' ladder. I called the evening before and then the morning of the install. Each time it was confirmed the tech would have a 40' ladder. He called me 15 minutes before arrival and didn't know what I was talking about! I called DTV and had them on the phone when he came to do his "survey." He pulled out his order and sure enough... it had "Customer requests 40' ladder for roof install."!!! Oh... while he was on the phone with DTV to "work this out" his supe showed up (no ladder) because "a 40' ladder requires a 2 man install!!! Supe assumed the tech had the ladder.

Well... I got 2 months service free and since it was early they were able to come back that evening to do the install.

We have some GREAT install people on DBSTalk.com... no doubt about it but if that fella had just read his work order he would have seen it. Turns out he thought he could mount the dish somewhere else and I wouldn't complain. His bad!

The moral? Sure sometimes the supes don't read their notes until after the routing has been planned but sometimes the installers are just as.... uh... "know it alls" who try to take the easy route.

When I moved here to Norfolk a few years ago I did as I always do. USUALLY I get a great installers (I also tip VERY well so I get the card for the fella who I trust and he comes back and does a "check up" every once in a while.)

Norfolk

PS: My installers have all been Mastec.

[Rakul]

My ladder is less than 1 year old and is KEPTIndoors when not in use
plus its OSHA approved and all that fun stuff.I paid a pretty decent price for it

That's your ladder though and you know this, I would not expect a tech to know it. If I where in RobertE's shoes I would not want to use someone else ladder outside of a small indoor one either, I would not climb 30' up on someones word that the ladder was cared for.

[RobertE]

My ladder is less than 1 year old and is KEPTIndoors when not in use
plus its OSHA approved and all that fun stuff.I paid a pretty decent price for it

A step ladder that has been indoors is fine. In 99% of the cases its to access an attic hatch. In this case, I'd much rather use a customer ladder than mine that has been in the mud/dirt/snow/etc. Customers always agree too. :p

Any extension ladders are a no go. Short of the customer having receipt in hand from Home Depot or Lowes, it's not getting used. Not worth the (additional) risk.

[houskamp]

I always own ladders to get to every area of my property.. currently have a A1 rated 40' and a few others.. But I can understand not using a ladder your not used to and know.. not to mention that 40' is a pain to handle..

[thekobk]

Unfortunately I find the tech notes on work orders to be wrong more then not and have been instructed to go to the customers house to see if I actually need a 40 foot latter and to call my supervisor for a truck roll if I do. I cant tell you how many requests for a 40 foot ladder turn out to be pole mounts.

[BattleZone]

"40-Foot Ladder" notes are routinely ignored, for the reasons given above (cost, 2-man crew, and the fact that they are supposed to be CUSTOM LABOR!), but also because 80+% of the time, the note on the account is bogus. I've gone to 1-story houses that were listed as "40-Foot Ladder"! When I asked the customer, he said, "the girl asked me about the roof, so I told her it was pretty tall."

Given the high rate of unneeded requests for tall ladders, and the fact that DirecTV pushes the HSPs to do this work for free now, it simply isn't cost-effective to do it any other way than how it is done today. No one wants to pay for custom labor, and no one wants a higher monthly bill, so cuts happen where they aren't as noticable. This is one of those areas.

If you want this work (which is really custom work done for free) done on your schedule, hire a local sat company and pay them directly. Then you'll have much more control. Otherwise, this is the norm for DirecTV. No one likes it, but it is what it is.

[joe diamond]

"40-Foot Ladder" notes are routinely ignored, for the reasons given above (cost, 2-man crew, and the fact that they are supposed to be CUSTOM LABOR!), but also because 80+% of the time, the note on the account is bogus. I've gone to 1-story houses that were listed as "40-Foot Ladder"! When I asked the customer, he said, "the girl asked me about the roof, so I told her it was pretty tall."

Given the high rate of unneeded requests for tall ladders, and the fact that DirecTV pushes the HSPs to do this work for free now, it simply isn't cost-effective to do it any other way than how it is done today. No one wants to pay for custom labor, and no one wants a higher monthly bill, so cuts happen where they aren't as noticable. This is one of those areas.

If you want this work (which is really custom work done for free) done on your schedule, hire a local sat company and pay them directly. Then you'll have much more control. Otherwise, this is the norm for DirecTV. No one likes it, but it is what it is.

Yet another area where FREE is not exactly it.


There was a time when every installation of anything was controlled by state home improvement license laws. Satellite dish antennae systems have become complex enough that it is time to look at those laws again.

And do no not mention SBCA certification........this stuff should be done with competitive bidding with local contractors. And, no, it is not the cheapest way to go but it is a small price to pay to get it done correctly the first time. (IMHO)!

Joe

[BattleZone]

There was a time when every installation of anything was controlled by state home improvement license laws. Satellite dish antennae systems have become complex enough that it is time to look at those laws again.


The problem is that DirecTV and Dish would have to go back to charging for installation, which would mean the installed base would shrink, because the sat companies have "taught" customers that the installation has no value (it's "free"), so they would refuse to pay.

Installers would be able to make a good living doing 2 jobs a day, and they could get done RIGHT. But there would be far fewer jobs...

[satjoe]

Why would a 30 foot ladder require 2 people ? I use a 40 everyday by myself and I'm not at all a big guy ( 5'6" , 170 lbs.) . I don't see why they just don't keep one on the truck .


Installers must only use fiberglass ladders, No conductive materials can be used. I would love to be able to use one of those little giant ladders.

[Dknow]

A Ka/Ku dish has no business being up three stories on a roof in the first place. This is probably why this gentleman keeps having service calls.

[joe diamond]

The problem is that DirecTV and Dish would have to go back to charging for installation, which would mean the installed base would shrink, because the sat companies have "taught" customers that the installation has no value (it's "free"), so they would refuse to pay.

Installers would be able to make a good living doing 2 jobs a day, and they could get done RIGHT. But there would be far fewer jobs...

Exactly,
I have had that conversation with installation companies. Two a day is enough. In summer three is ok. The answer to the question "How are you going to make any money on two a day? .... is...I do other things in the same neighborhood.

Which also answers the question why you can't drive four hours a day and do six jobs.

I think if they went to charging for installations there would not be too much change. There is now so much tin and rg6 out there that many installations would be receiver connections only. Upgrades could be funded correctly also.

Joe

[HawkEye19]

Having worked for DirectSat prior to going independent, I know that they issue their techs 28' ladders and 8' step ladders. Any job requiring the use of a bigger ladder i.e. a 40' ladder requires an automatic sup. truck roll.

For 2 reasons this happens. 1. because of the cost of the ladders they do not issue them to everyone just the sups. 2. Because of their past insurance claims due to size and weight of the 40' ladders, they require 2 people to setup the ladder and standby incase of a fall.

Because DirectSats work orders are not ran until late at night usually after 11 pm, and they are automated routing, most of the times sups. don't spool their routes till midnight so they don't know or care if there are additional notes on the work order. Most of the time it is easier for them to reschedule repeatedly then have to go out and stand for what could be hours until the tech is done with their job. Most sups. will not help the tech when they show up for a 40' other than with the setup and tear down of the ladder itself.

[Mod Edit: Redacted private company information]


I'm guessing they have changed their policy on ladders. I just had to send my second tech away, because he had a 20' ladder (as did the first one). I guess I'll eventually get the new dish put up.

[Mertzen]

A Ka/Ku dish has no business being up three stories on a roof in the first place.

Why exactly ?

[BattleZone]

Why exactly ?

For exactly the problem that the OP is having: maintenance. If a dish can't be accessed *safely* with a 28' ladder, then any maintenance is going to be difficult at best, because techs only carry 28' ladders, and because OSHA requires 2 techs for anything bigger.

That's exactly why these jobs are supposed to be custom: the customer is supposed to bear the extra costs associated with the dish being in a non-standard location.

During the last couple of years, builders have been building a lot of 3-5 story townhomes, either connected or with just a couple of feet between the buildings. The HOAs for these places won't allow the dish to be mounted on the wall or anywhere else visible, so customers want them on the roof. But most of the time you need a 40' ladder, and for some, even that isn't big enough. And often these dishes can't be mounted very securely due to the brand new tile roof, so they are installed on small trim boards. Being so high up, they are blown around in high winds. All that adds up to problem installs, and the dish being so hard to access means the problems are even more difficult.

Really, many of these customers simply shouldn't have satellite, and I personally have refused a number of installs like this because the situation prevented a solid, trouble-free install. Of course, the customer is upset, but had I done the install anyway, and then they were in a 2 year commitment but had constant problems that took forever to fix, they'd be even more unhappy.

By doing these jobs for free, DirecTV is teaching customers that these are "ordinary" installs that should be "routine" to service, when they simply aren't. And, so this policy puts everything on the tech, who is expected to "get it done". The smart techs simply refuse, but the new ones who don't know any better will try to get the job done, and usually make the situation worse for everyone.

We went to one customer whose 1-LNB dish was mounted on a wall 50' in the air, with 4' of land around the building followed by a steep drop-off. The job was for an HD upgrade. He was upset because we were the 4th people out, and no one would do the job. I asked him how the old dish got installed in the first place, and he told me that it was installed while the building was still being built and the builders had scaffolding up 5 stories tall. I told him that he wasn't going to get his upgrade unless he paid someone to come out and erect some similar scaffolding, but that I strongly recommended against it for maintenance reasons. He was very upset by that, because he'd already priced it out, and it would have cost him $2,000 to have the scaffolding rented and setup. Yet, he still expected DirecTV to handle his job for free.

[pressureman0]

:lol::lol:For exactly the problem that the OP is having: maintenance. If a dish can't be accessed *safely* with a 28' ladder, then any maintenance is going to be difficult at best, because techs only carry 28' ladders, and because OSHA requires 2 techs for anything bigger.

That's exactly why these jobs are supposed to be custom: the customer is supposed to bear the extra costs associated with the dish being in a non-standard location.

During the last couple of years, builders have been building a lot of 3-5 story townhomes, either connected or with just a couple of feet between the buildings. The HOAs for these places won't allow the dish to be mounted on the wall or anywhere else visible, so customers want them on the roof. But most of the time you need a 40' ladder, and for some, even that isn't big enough. And often these dishes can't be mounted very securely due to the brand new tile roof, so they are installed on small trim boards. Being so high up, they are blown around in high winds. All that adds up to problem installs, and the dish being so hard to access means the problems are even more difficult.

Really, many of these customers simply shouldn't have satellite, and I personally have refused a number of installs like this because the situation prevented a solid, trouble-free install. Of course, the customer is upset, but had I done the install anyway, and then they were in a 2 year commitment but had constant problems that took forever to fix, they'd be even more unhappy.

By doing these jobs for free, DirecTV is teaching customers that these are "ordinary" installs that should be "routine" to service, when they simply aren't. And, so this policy puts everything on the tech, who is expected to "get it done". The smart techs simply refuse, but the new ones who don't know any better will try to get the job done, and usually make the situation worse for everyone.

We went to one customer whose 1-LNB dish was mounted on a wall 50' in the air, with 4' of land around the building followed by a steep drop-off. The job was for an HD upgrade. He was upset because we were the 4th people out, and no one would do the job. I asked him how the old dish got installed in the first place, and he told me that it was installed while the building was still being built and the builders had scaffolding up 5 stories tall. I told him that he wasn't going to get his upgrade unless he paid someone to come out and erect some similar scaffolding, but that I strongly recommended against it for maintenance reasons. He was very upset by that, because he'd already priced it out, and it would have cost him $2,000 to have the scaffolding rented and setup. Yet, he still expected DirecTV to handle his job for free.

get a bucket truck
:lol:

[fl panthers]

not to stir the pot but....:Dfor those installers or anyone else complaining about a high or tuff install. suck it up and take the good w/ the bad.my 5lnb dish is mounted to a block wall 4 ft off the ground and i ran all the wire prior to installer arriving,so all he needed to do was assemble,mount,allign.i even hooked up the receiver whil he was doing that.easy install is a understatement.did my installer get paid less for easier than usual install?nope,if he did someone here would complain that is not fair.boo hoo. do your job!!

[RobertE]

not to stir the pot but....:Dfor those installers or anyone else complaining about a high or tuff install. suck it up and take the good w/ the bad.my 5lnb dish is mounted to a block wall 4 ft off the ground and i ran all the wire prior to installer arriving,so all he needed to do was assemble,mount,allign.i even hooked up the receiver whil he was doing that.easy install is a understatement.did my installer get paid less for easier than usual install?nope,if he did someone here would complain that is not fair.boo hoo. do your job!!

Walk a mile in my boots, then tell me how you feel. :mad:

[David MacLeod]

not to stir the pot but....:Dfor those installers or anyone else complaining about a high or tuff install. suck it up and take the good w/ the bad.my 5lnb dish is mounted to a block wall 4 ft off the ground and i ran all the wire prior to installer arriving,so all he needed to do was assemble,mount,allign.i even hooked up the receiver whil he was doing that.easy install is a understatement.did my installer get paid less for easier than usual install?nope,if he did someone here would complain that is not fair.boo hoo. do your job!!

hypothetical ??, wonder who gets nailed for charge backs if something fails here in cases like these? since customer did wiring is it noted somewhere? unless customer never calls and always does own work (like many of us) can't this be a sticky issue?

[RobertE]

hypothetical ??, wonder who gets nailed for charge backs if something fails here in cases like these? since customer did wiring is it noted somewhere? unless customer never calls and always does own work (like many of us) can't this be a sticky issue?

The tech of course.

[David MacLeod]

The tech of course.
thats friggin wrong.

[jpitlick]

For exactly the problem that the OP is having: maintenance. If a dish can't be accessed *safely* with a 28' ladder, then any maintenance is going to be difficult at best, because techs only carry 28' ladders, and because OSHA requires 2 techs for anything bigger.

That's exactly why these jobs are supposed to be custom: the customer is supposed to bear the extra costs associated with the dish being in a non-standard location.

During the last couple of years, builders have been building a lot of 3-5 story townhomes, either connected or with just a couple of feet between the buildings. The HOAs for these places won't allow the dish to be mounted on the wall or anywhere else visible, so customers want them on the roof. But most of the time you need a 40' ladder, and for some, even that isn't big enough. And often these dishes can't be mounted very securely due to the brand new tile roof, so they are installed on small trim boards. Being so high up, they are blown around in high winds. All that adds up to problem installs, and the dish being so hard to access means the problems are even more difficult.

Really, many of these customers simply shouldn't have satellite, and I personally have refused a number of installs like this because the situation prevented a solid, trouble-free install. Of course, the customer is upset, but had I done the install anyway, and then they were in a 2 year commitment but had constant problems that took forever to fix, they'd be even more unhappy.

By doing these jobs for free, DirecTV is teaching customers that these are "ordinary" installs that should be "routine" to service, when they simply aren't. And, so this policy puts everything on the tech, who is expected to "get it done". The smart techs simply refuse, but the new ones who don't know any better will try to get the job done, and usually make the situation worse for everyone.

We went to one customer whose 1-LNB dish was mounted on a wall 50' in the air, with 4' of land around the building followed by a steep drop-off. The job was for an HD upgrade. He was upset because we were the 4th people out, and no one would do the job. I asked him how the old dish got installed in the first place, and he told me that it was installed while the building was still being built and the builders had scaffolding up 5 stories tall. I told him that he wasn't going to get his upgrade unless he paid someone to come out and erect some similar scaffolding, but that I strongly recommended against it for maintenance reasons. He was very upset by that, because he'd already priced it out, and it would have cost him $2,000 to have the scaffolding rented and setup. Yet, he still expected DirecTV to handle his job for free.

At no time during any of the installs/service calls that I have had over the years did any of the techs mention that installing my dish would be a custom job. Had that been mentioned, I would probably have been receptive to paying extra for the install. Unfortunately, my current dish location is the only place it can be. For that matter, some of my neighbors have their dishes higher on their roof that I do and it is most likely that the same company installed them.

Maybe the initial installers are to blame for setting the precedent on my install. If they were uncomfortable doing the install, they should have refused...but they didn't. I have never gotten any complaints from the installers. Just a lot of rescheduled appointments so they could bring the appropriate ladder. The only time that they brought the correct ladder the first time was when I was upgrading from an H10 receiver and 3 LNB dish to the H20 and 5 LNB dish. And on that call the lead installer forgot to bring the receiver and had to run back to the office to get it.

I try my best to maintain my own equipment so that I don't have to make service calls. Sometimes the circumstances are out of my hands. When one of my receivers died, I called D* and they insisted on sending a tech. I thought they were just going to replace the receiver, but the tech wanted to replace my dish too (from and AU9 to a Slimline 5). I did not request the longer ladder, because D* gave no indication that they were going to replace the dish. Fortunately, the installer was able to get his supervisor out the same day.

I am very happy with DirecTV and their service. I am always willing to give a little to get a little. The only time that I did not pay for a dish install was the aforementioned occasion and that was because I have the protection plan.

[gen2rx7]

If there is any need for a 40 foot ladder I will find another way to do the job or I won't do the job. In the last 2 years I have only had to use the 40' ladder once and that was to tack cable in three places. If the dish is that high there are going to be tons of problems with getting the dish serviced.

[pressureman0]

not to stir the pot but....:Dfor those installers or anyone else complaining about a high or tuff install. suck it up and take the good w/ the bad.my 5lnb dish is mounted to a block wall 4 ft off the ground and i ran all the wire prior to installer arriving,so all he needed to do was assemble,mount,allign.i even hooked up the receiver whil he was doing that.easy install is a understatement.did my installer get paid less for easier than usual install?nope,if he did someone here would complain that is not fair.boo hoo. do your job!!

why is the turn over rate around 90% cause you will call in for service before 90 days:nono: and will get the tech charge back I worked in house before becoming a sub in wpb 1 good job ver ? bad you can go drop dead try my job for a living not cause your house needs to look a speical way:mad:

[fl panthers]

been a sub for 11 yrs never had a service call exept to upgrade.Somehow it gets turned around and cust. is at fault for making YOUR job easier and YOUR money is made in less time.my point was you get a high job 1 or 2 times a month,you have got to get at least 1 or 2 easy jobs per month to.making it average out in the end.my post was not for the blame of a possible callback at a later date.everyone's job has high and low point's just keep that in mind.

[fl panthers]

The tech of course.

only if the customer is a a-hole.if he went through the effort of doing part of your work for you,at least give the benifit of the doubt and assume you won't be blamed.i do not know how chargebacks work,but if something fails that's not the techs fault so why would you get charged?

[fl panthers]

Walk a mile in my boots, then tell me how you feel. :mad:

I do custom installs of wood floors,kitchens,bathrooms for home depot and others.i realize it's not d*, but a bad cust. is a bad cust. and you will be blamed for the most out there crap, so i do understand.please don't think you are the only trade dealing w/ customers.

[DtvSlave]

only if the customer is a a-hole.if he went through the effort of doing part of your work for you,at least give the benifit of the doubt and assume you won't be blamed.i do not know how chargebacks work,but if something fails that's not the techs fault so why would you get charged?

Because if there needs to be a truck roll, some one has to pay for the techs time, gas ect. ect. you don't think D. is just gonna eat the charge if they can put it off on someone else do you?

When a service call is closed out, a reason is given. Even if 5 reasons are listed or just one D. will always use the reason that charges back the tech. i.e. bad connector, bad ground block even if the receiver was switced out, that way they don't have to eat the cost. If a tech turns in a receiver and it turns out the receiver is good the tech gets the charge back for the box, therefore, the tech usually will close out the job with other reasons as well to account for replacing the box.

Is it right? No, but they are in business to make money and they are not gonna throw away money if they can pin it on a tech. They know there is nothing in place for a tech to fight the charge back and win.

[joe diamond]

Because if there needs to be a truck roll, some one has to pay for the techs time, gas ect. ect. you don't think D. is just gonna eat the charge if they can put it off on someone else do you?

. . .

Is it right? No, but they are in business to make money and they are not gonna throw away money if they can pin it on a tech. They know there is nothing in place for a tech to fight the charge back and win.
DTV Slave,

OF COURSE,
There is the turnover rate. It could be as high as 90%. That walking away worked for me. I have only had experience with MASTEC, DirectSatUSA and Ironwood.......in each case through one of their subs. All unsatisfactory!

I am sure that now DTV has bought the dirt ball HSPs out all problems are gone.

Right?

Joe

[Johnnie5000]

because 80+% of the time, the note on the account is bogus Thats the reason I ignore it every time its on the work order. If it's actually needed I'll have the office change the note to where it says Tech # states 40ft ladder required. And I'll add the misc labor code for 40ft ladder to the work order thru siebul.

A Ka/Ku dish has no business being up three stories on a roof in the first place. This is probably why this gentleman keeps having service calls. Strong possibility.

If there is any need for a 40 foot ladder I will find another way to do the job or I won't do the job. Damn skippy.
I usually end up using a 10ft ladder on the work orders calling for a 40ft.

i do not know how chargebacks work,but if something fails that's not the techs fault so why would you get charged? Two words: Corporate Greed. Well that and as a tech you're responsible for EVERY inch of cable, every connector, dish, switch, etc on the install for 90 days.

[Simmerman]

How about this one, the HSP I work for recently told us that if we have to go back out on a job that we did, we are not getting paid for it. I am talking about things beyond our control such as refurb boxes and/ or LNB's going bad. I have no problem fixing something I did wrong but to make us work for free is wrong.

The other option is to tell the customer to call Directv and set up a service call so another tech can get paid for it but that becomes a repeat service call on me.

Back to the original issue, I agree that 40 ft ladder jobs should be a last resort if at all. They are dangerous and my company does not pay me any extra for the labor and time involved.

[BattleZone]

How about this one, the HSP I work for recently told us that if we have to go back out on a job that we did, we are not getting paid for it. I am talking about things beyond our control such as refurb boxes and/ or LNB's going bad. I have no problem fixing something I did wrong but to make us work for free is wrong.


That's against the law. You can take them to the labor board, and you will win handily. The HSP's goal is to keep you too busy and too poor to have time to do things like take them to the labor board, but when it happens, HSPs lose EVERY TIME. Start documenting!

And, as soon as you can, find a better job, and encourage your coworkers to do the same. The only reason they get away with this BS is because you let them.

[Simmerman]

I have been down that road before with another job and although I won, it was at too great a cost. But we are used to stuff like this and we have already found a workaround to get paid.

The thing is, its not our local management. They are pretty squared away. Its corporate- imagine that!

Thanks for the tips though

Anyways, how about those 40 foot ladders?

[randyk47]

All I can say is that there are situations where the dish has to be in a certain place and there's nothing that can be done about that. On my house it got down to "it's either here or nowhere" and that was an agreement that was shared by me, the HSP, and the private installer who eventually did put up my Slimline. In my case the dish is 35' up and to install it the contractor used safety gear to stand/stay on the 45 degree pitched roof to do the install. There was no other place to mount the dish and get LOS and we, almost painfully, examined numerous alternatives for hours to come to the decision. Maintainence on the dish, which hasn't been required so far in the almost two years it's been up, is going to be a nightmare but it is what it is.

[BattleZone]

All I can say is that there are situations where the dish has to be in a certain place and there's nothing that can be done about that. On my house it got down to "it's either here or nowhere" and that was an agreement that was shared by me, the HSP, and the private installer who eventually did put up my Slimline. In my case the dish is 35' up and to install it the contractor used safety gear to stand/stay on the 45 degree pitched roof to do the install. There was no other place to mount the dish and get LOS and we, almost painfully, examined numerous alternatives for hours to come to the decision. Maintainence on the dish, which hasn't been required so far in the almost two years it's been up, is going to be a nightmare but it is what it is.

The difference is that you already know you have a custom install that requires extra attention and money if something needs to be done down the road. Your expectations are properly set. Many customers in your situation believe their installs are "standard", and should be "free", and that service should be prompt and simple. That just isn't the case, but because DirecTV has brow-beaten their techs into doing more and more custom work for free, that's exactly the expectation most customers have.

[woodybeetle]

As a commercial installer I will throw my hat in the ring. Anyone that uses a 40 foot ladder does several things. First of they run the risk of injury. Secondly, they require assistance in raising ladder (yeah yeah, I can do it alone, BS, a 40 foot Osha ladder weighs over 120 lbs). Third, they have to carry a commercial insurance policy rated for work over 30 feet, which by the way doubles the premium. For the customers that need over 30 foot, I feel for you, D does not let you know that it is a custom mounting situation. For those that do it without custom charges, shame on you, when you fall and get hurt, don't be surprised when insurance says tough luck. As for the customers that feel that everything must be free, walk in my shoes for a week, then we can talk. To the installers that believe they must do it all for free, call D and ask the dealer services dept what constitutes a standard install, you will be surprised by the list. Do any installers know that you are supposed to use conduit on a pole mounted dish, how about burial rated cable? Thought not. That is why there are installers and technicians in this industry, please do not get them confused. An installer will swap a part till the problem is fixed, the technician will find the problem then remedy the offending item.