New Home Theater Receiver

[Chris Blount]

Well, a couple of weeks ago I took the plunge and purchased a new home theater receiver. Since I'm on a slight budget, I wanted something in the mid price range with the features of a top-notch receiver. The pioneer 812K was just the ticket. It has just about everything I wanted: Dolby Digital 5.1, 6.1 EX, DTS ES, EX, 96/24, and Dolby Pro-Logic 2. You can read more about the features here:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/HomeProducts/HomeProductDetails/0,1422,92741,00.html

The amazing thing is that this receiver was only $299. Seven years ago when I bought my last home theater receiver, it was the first Dolby Digital 5.1 receiver on the market (Pioneer D3S) which cost $1200. Things sure have changed.

Anyway, this new receiver has 7 amplified outputs for 7.1 surround sound. This weekend I installed the surround back speaker (the speaker directly behind the listener). I have to admit it does make a slight difference in the surround quality. I tested several discs mastered in Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES and the difference, while not astounding compared to regular 5.1, it does add a fullness to the surround effects.

One controversy is the battle between Dolby Digital and DTS. Which sounds better? Well, in my opinion, DTS definitely has an edge. The sound is much brighter and detailed along with very tight bass. I really thought I wouldn't hear much of a difference but it's very easy to tell DTS with it's higher bit rate out performs Dolby Digital. I am now a bonified DTS fan and thank goodness some of the studios are releasing DTS titles. I never realized how many DTS titles I already have in my collection. Very cool!

Another thing I'm very much impressed with is Dolby Pro-Logic 2. It takes a regular matrixed Dolby Surround track (2 channel stereo with an encoded surround signal) and basically turns it into Dolby Digital 5.1 with split full range surround channels. The other night I was watching Enterprise and on several occasions when the ship would fly by, the sound would travel overhead and then sometimes to the rear left or rear right speaker. It's one of the most amazing things I've ever heard from any matrixed type encoding for the past 25 years of listening to this stuff. Dolby Pro-Logic 2 is definitely a "must have" for anyone with a DBS system who watch regular stereo programs with encoded surround sound.

Setup was also a breeze. The most amazing part was not only being able to set each channel's volume individually, but also setting precise speaker distance from the listener area with the built in test tones. There is also an auto setup feature that simplfies the whole process for the home theater novice which worked quite well.

Well, that's all I can think of right now. A/V receivers have really come a long way over the past few years. If you have been putting off buying one, now is a good time as any. Prices are down and quality is up. Go for it!

[Tomsoundman]

Good post, Chris.

I have had a few Pioneer Receivers over the years. Just like them because of the of the system remote with the components I already had: Pioneer cassette, CD, etc and they all attach with remote cable, etc.
But now with better remotes everywhere, it is not much an issue. I have last model the VSX509S. Wish that mine or the one you got had a phono input but you can't have it all at that price point.

[Chris Blount]

Thanks Tom. One thing I didn't mention in my last post was that the Pioneer 812K also has 7.1 pre-amp inputs for external devices like DVD-Audio. I tried out a DVD-Audio disc containing DTS 96/24. WOW! That some of the best sounding music I've ever heard. The quality is incredible and beats just about everything else I've ever heard on Vinyl, CD, DVD-Audio or Super Audio CD.

[lastmanstanding]

definitely has an edge.~

Chris,

That is my opinion too. This is especially true when matrixing 5.1 to 6.1. Even with THX ES formating, DTS source materials do a better job putting together that rear channel.

Sonically, these new receivers are marvels. It is very easy to buy some find sounding gear without breaking the bank.

I am waiting for the new DVD players that play DVD-audio and SACD to come down in price. $1K seems to be the ticket right now.

So what is your favorite movie to show off your system?

[bluebino]

Chris:

I also upgraded my home theatre receiver recently, and I agree, what a difference. I had bought a home theatre in a box years ago(Kenwood), and at the time for the money it worked well. I upgraded to a Harmon Kardon AVR 320, which from your description appears to have similar features.

Perhaps you already have your system hooked up like this, but not mentioned in your post. According to my installation manual, in order to run the extra speakers for the 6.1-8.1(some receivers have this capability now) it requires you put an extra amplifier in line to power these speakers. I'm by no means an audiophile, so I don't know what happens if you do not do this, or what the sound difference will be, but you may want to consult your manual to make sure its hooked up correctly.

Question for you Chris. You say that the DVD-Audio was better than what you heard on SACD. I have a SACD/DVD player(Sony) and it sounds great. From my research and listening to instore demos, don't they sound similar quality wise? I was really on the fence on which one to pick initially, probably what swayed me was that there were so many more selections available with SACD. Would love to hear your opinion though.

[Richard King]

Chris, congrats on the new toy. As I mentioned in another thread, I recently made the leap also to an HK AVR7200. What a difference in every way from the old DPL separates that I had before. I finally got my 508 hooked in through the Toslink connections and don't feel that I need any of the external signal processing that I used to use to compensate for the compressed, apparently narrow bandwidth of Dish's audio signal. Color me happy. :)

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by lastmanstanding

So what is your favorite movie to show off your system? I managed to get my hands on a THX WOW! disc so that one works quite well.

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by bluebino
According to my installation manual, in order to run the extra speakers for the 6.1-8.1(some receivers have this capability now) it requires you put an extra amplifier in line to power these speakers.

This new receiver has all 7, 100 watt amplifiers built in. No extra amps needed except for the subwoofer of course.


Question for you Chris. You say that the DVD-Audio was better than what you heard on SACD. Actually DVD-Audio and SACD both sounded great. DTS 96/24 is what blew me away. Of course it really wasn't a scientific listening test but the sound was excellent.

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by Rking401
Chris, congrats on the new toy. As I mentioned in another thread, I recently made the leap also to an HK AVR7200. What a difference in every way from the old DPL separates that I had before. I finally got my 508 hooked in through the Toslink connections and don't feel that I need any of the external signal processing that I used to use to compensate for the compressed, apparently narrow bandwidth of Dish's audio signal. Color me happy. :) I saw your post and considered something like that but just didn't want to take that much of a leap. I envy you though. The power supply in that thing must be awesome giving you some excellent quality.

I know what you mean about the Toslink connection. I have mine running from my 501 to the new receiver. The sound is great and it's nice that the receiver automatically recognizes what sort of signal is coming from the satellite (Analog stereo, DD 2.0, 4.0, 5.1 etc) and adjusts the output accordingly. Very cool stuff!

[Richard King]

Chris... Your homework assignment for tonight is to run out and buy the Fleetwood Mac "The Dance" DVD and crank the volume up until you crack the walls in your house. All I can say is WOW!!! And it's not even DTS. :D

[lastmanstanding]

Chris,

These new systems are so good, it is easy to pick out the poorly rendered surround recordings. DTS superiority may be no more than better engineering, not less compression.

In any case, have fun!

What speakers are you running?

[HTguy]

Originally posted by Rking401
Chris... Your homework assignment for tonight is to run out and buy the Fleetwood Mac "The Dance" DVD and crank the volume up until you crack the walls in your house. All I can say is WOW!!! And it's not even DTS. :D
Since you evidently have a DVD-A player what you want if you're a Fleetwood Mac fan is the DVD-Audio version of Rumours.
(But you may need an external Bass Management device to hear it properly.)

[Richard King]

Since you evidently have a DVD-A playerNah, just an old Toshiba SD-3006 DVD player. This was one of the first two models that they released. It doesn't even have an optical out, just coax.

What does the bass management device do? My fronts are JBL 4430 studio monitors (real ones) with 15" woofs. I don't need a sub for my system. :D

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by Rking401
Nah, just an old Toshiba SD-3006 DVD player. I had one of those! Bought one of the first players back in March of 97. Remember how much that sucker cost? I paid about $500. Right now it's on the scrap heap. It died last year.

I do have both Fleetwood Mac - The Dance and the DVD-Audio of Rumours. I'm impressed with how well Rumours was remixed for surround. Other DVD-Audio selections I own are Queen: The Game and Foreigner 4. The Queen disc is the only one with DTS 96/24. "Another one bites the dust" shakes the house!

[Richard King]

March 97 is the date stamped on the back of mine. I got a better deal on mine though since I bought it from a distributor that I use at dealer cost, but still paid too much.

I am going to have to check out Purple Rain one of these days. I designed and installed the studio system that he used to record large portions of the flick and so am curious as to how the DD tracks turned out. It's vintage 1984, so I don't expect much out of it though.

[lastmanstanding]

Chris,

A great demo disk, albeit a long demo disk, is THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, extended edition. There is a DTS-ES track, and the engineers really understand how to use surround sound and deep bass as an expressive insturment.

The six channel surround takes the movie to a level that far exceeds the theater. We have entered an era of movie presentation where if you really want the most of a movie, buy the DVD and play it at home.

The only problem I have is that the sub rattles the walls in my daughter's room, two floors above. I suggested that she get used to it, or quit driving the family car. I have heard no more complaints.

The power of diplomacy.

[Nick]

With your obvious powers of persuasion, you deserve the handle "lastmanstanding". :)

[Nick]

Chris, how many component-video 'ins' & 'outs' do you have now?

[rbonzer]

Hey Chris, I have a question for you about the 812K. Its a long winded, hard to ask question...

My receiver went out (actually, the volume stopped working from the remote control. I can't believe I'll spend hundreds of dollars for being lazy). I'm going to take this opportunity to get a new one. But I had issues with my last one that maybe the 812K solves...

The DD/PCM output from my 501 to the (Sony) receiver worked good, until I skipped forward or backward. Then it had a pause in the audio, presumably for the receiver to figure out what type of input it was receiving. It was very annoying when we'd skip back to figure out what someone said, but the audio wouldn't start back up right away. Does the 812K have this issue?

Also, controlling the volume level was difficult. On the dial, going from zero to one went from quiet to pretty loud. I needed the range from zero to one to take up more space on the dial. At night, one push of the volume button on the remote would take it from too quiet to too loud.

I ended up turning off PCM output from the 501, because of the skipping/synching problems, plus the volume was a little quieter through the analog connection, which help the volume problem a little.

Am I just too picky? Do any of these problems bother you with the 812K? I saw one of these at Best Buy and almost picked it up, but I wanted to ask someone who had one about these issues.

[Chris Blount]

The DD/PCM output from my 501 to the (Sony) receiver worked good, until I skipped forward or backward. Then it had a pause in the audio, presumably for the receiver to figure out what type of input it was receiving. It was very annoying when we'd skip back to figure out what someone said, but the audio wouldn't start back up right away. Does the 812K have this issue?

Also, controlling the volume level was difficult. On the dial, going from zero to one went from quiet to pretty loud. I needed the range from zero to one to take up more space on the dial. At night, one push of the volume button on the remote would take it from too quiet to too loud.


Yes, there is a delay with the 501 hooked to the 812K. It lasts maybe about 1/2 a second each time you hit the skip button on the 501. There is a way to set the receiver to only recognize PCM which might reduce the delay but I haven't tried that yet. I personally think you are going to have that delay problem with any receiver since toslink works differently than plain old analog connections.

On the bright side though, you will love the volume control on the 812K. It steps in 1 DB increments and is VERY smooth.

[rbonzer]

Thanks for the info. If the delay is only 1/2 second, its way better than the 1-2 seconds I had to put up with before. It made the skip back pretty useless.

The volume control sounds great. Its the thing the wife hates the most about having an ht setup. She'd rather listen through the tv's speakers (yikes!), but she puts up with me. (Can women not hear the difference??!?!)

Rob

[Joe Bernardi]

I personally know another wife who watches the 65" Mitsubishi with the TV sound until I sit down and switch to the ht speakers.

[rbonzer]

Well I picked one up last night (Pioneer 812K) on the way home from work. Finished hooking it up this morning and I am pleased. I haven't had much time to play with it, but the volume control is WAY better. In fact, its almost too slow in raising and lowering the volume. I'd rather have it that way than too quickly.

The blank sound when skipping around on a 501 is still there, but better than before. The sound seems so much clearer through the toslink than analog cables. Plus, with all that HBO I recorded during the free preview, I can hear it in its 5.1 glory again.

Thanks for the advice.

Rob

[Chris Blount]

Glad you are enjoying your new receiver. Wait until you try a good DTS DVD! The Superbit DVD's all have the old DTS logo that plays before the movie begins. It will knock your socks off!

You are right about the delay. For me it's about 3/4 to 1 second in length (I actually timed it this time so sorry about the false information before). When I flip the front access door down and press "Signal Select" and set it to "analog", the delay is pretty much gone.

Yes, the volume control is very slow but how wonderful it is to be able to set the volume at 1 DB steps. Definitely a good feature on this receiver.

Be sure to setup your receiver using the MCACC function. You will find the button on your remote. It will help you precisely setup the entire system including all volume levels and sound delays. A sound pressure meter would help but not really required. Consult the instruction manual to help you set the system up using MCACC. The auto setup feature is nice but not really as accurate.

Good luck and happy movie watching!

[JCS]

Chris,
I am considering the 812 based upon this thread. One question - have you tried to find discrete power codes? Thanks. JCS

[JCS]

FYI - I purchased the 812K and was able to program discrete codes for power on/off and the Aux input.

[gravee]

Guys...I also feel that DTS is better than Dolby digital. But it is interesting if you go thru the below link for more info.

http://www.dolby.com/tech/mp.in.0103.DigitalVsDTS.pdf

Hope you will enjoy this.


I also do have link which shows DVD-A is superior in quality. But I too believe it. If interested will let you know.