Scott says... forget 121, Dish will use 105 instead!

[Scott Greczkowski]

Well last week I posted my feelings about Dish putting its eggs in one basket as everything they were announcing was based on the new satellite going up and being good. I said that everything hinged on the 121 satellite being launched and good. Well I hate to admit it, but I was WRONG.

The bird Echostar is going to use is already IN SPACE and operational! Dish Network will be using the G-Star 4 KU Satellite from SES AMERICOM which is already in space.

G-STAR 4 is an older satellite and has been in the Sky for years, however a new satellite AMC-15 is scheduled for launch the 3rd quarter of next year. http://www.ses-americom.com/media/26_mar_03.html

This answers a bunch of question that I had and makes me feel much better about the future of things at Dish Network. :)

With that being said I now have had some of my questions answered and of course some new questions as well.

With 121 going up later this summer what will it be used for? I have heard that the Internationals will go to 121 and will be a seperate service from Dish Network (this in uncofirmed by ANYONE at Dish Network just something I have heard)

If I want to get then internationals off of 121 and HD from 105 and 110 and 119, will I need a Super SuperDish?

And what if I still want to watch SkyAngel from 61.5 still?

All this is very exciting. I do hope that Dish Network does not require us to buy the new SuperDish, I was already told that if I buy a 8PSK module it will be "All you need" to watch future HD channels on Dish Network, let's hope they stick to that promise.

Someone emailed me the other day and asked how come they don't have HDNet now, well good question they do have the room for it, I would love to see it switched on now for a free preview and to give us a reason to want a SuperDish. :)

Again I am now much more excited now that i know the future is not hinging on the launch of a satellite. :)

[PeterB]

and yet, still no Hartford locals.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yeah I know, Charlie don't seem to like Connecticut. DirecTV Plus Dishes are popping up all over the place.

[DmitriA]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
If I want to get then internationals off of 121 and HD from 105 and 110 and 119, will I need a Super SuperDish?

And what type of switch will you need to receive signals from 4 satellites?

P.S. Never mind. Didn't see the SW44 there..

[Jacob S]

Perhaps the rest of the 150 markets they want to cover will be offered from 105. Also I think 105 will be used for internet if not for locals as well, 121 used for locals and HD. I think the SuperDish could be used for tuning in 105, 110, 119, and 121 all at once. If someone wanted 61.5 then there may be an issue because that would require a 5th slot in which would require more advanced switching. With DirecTv now saying they are going to offer as many of the 110 markets as possible Dish will have to try to do the same or lose many markets and opportunities for subs. Maybe this is why they announced plans for up to 150 markets.

[Jerry 42]

Sorry I do not understand all the tech info on 61.5 vs. 105 vs. 110. vs 119 vs. 121 vs 129 vs 148 so I will ask if any body can explain in simple English were I and other like me stand in this listing of birds and singles.

I am on the West coast, I have 2- 6000upgraded and a 301receivers- a 500 (with Quad LNB) & a 300 Dishes with a SW 64. I get East nets and LA locals and HBO - Showtime- CBS W - Discovery HD - HD Pay & Events (off 148)

Will I need yet an other Dish and/or receiver and/or new switch(es) etc? Between the Quad- 2 6000s-SW64 thats a big investment to write off if new equipment is needed.

All Dish ever said was you needed to get the 6000 upgrade to get all the new HD channels. Okay I did that in good faith. Whats up now with "super dish" etc.

[Jacob S]

Are they crazy to build the smart cards inside the receivers? What if there was a smart card swapout needed? Are they going to lower piracy this way so that customers will not try to hackd the card since there would be none and the chip be made inside or what? They would just take the receiver apart to do so.

Also what about 121? Aint they launching locals the satellite later this year to that orbital location? Or are they just going to use that slot for some of the expanded locals?

What about SES Americom? Weren't they supposed to launch a service there in the future? Where would they operate the service from if Dish is going to use all the transponders on that satellite? Did some plans change or something?

[Eyedox]

Exactly ... what happens when SES Americom decides they are ready to launch some service in the USA and take back the bandwidth and transponder space from DISH. I will tell you what ... a nice big SuperDISH paperweight on your roof! :)

[Richard King]

Are they crazy to build the smart cards inside the receivers? What if there was a smart card swapout needed? Are they going to lower piracy this way so that customers will not try to hackd the card since there would be none and the chip be made inside or what? They would just take the receiver apart to do so.The receiver will also have a slot for adding a smart card it the system is ever hacked.

Also what about 121? Aint they launching locals the satellite later this year to that orbital location? Or are they just going to use that slot for some of the expanded locals?My understanding is that they "ain't" launching locals to 121 and that the slot will be used mostly for the new international channels. I could be way wrong though.

What about SES Americom? Weren't they supposed to launch a service there in the future? Where would they operate the service from if Dish is going to use all the transponders on that satellite? Did some plans change or something?I believe that SES Americom is going to use 105.5 on the dbs frequencies, not normal KU.

Exactly ... what happens when SES Americom decides they are ready to launch some service in the USA and take back the bandwidth and transponder space from DISH. I will tell you what ... a nice big SuperDISH paperweight on your roof!No paperweight. I believe that Dish has a life of the satellite lease agreement for the bird. The SES service was going to go to 105.5 degrees, not 105 degrees. Better a paperweight than a boat anchor though, unless of course you own a boat. :D

[Jacob S]

I thought it was said that it would be longterm lease on the satellite? Wouldn't they be promised a certain number of years that they are promised a lease on that satellite?

Also why couldn't Dish just launch another satellite to 121?

[sampatterson]

I agree Scott. Now that I know that it is the 105 slot it makes things more interesting. That means they can move all the international stuff to 121 (that is *alot* of bandwidth).

It wouldn't shock me if they moved one of their in-orbit backups to 105 and use it to broadcast instead of the existing bird. Then they could use DBS polarity, et al. Would the FCC allow them to do this?

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by sampatterson
I agree Scott. Now that I know that it is the 105 slot it makes things more interesting. That means they can move all the international stuff to 121 (that is *alot* of bandwidth).

It wouldn't shock me if they moved one of their in-orbit backups to 105 and use it to broadcast instead of the existing bird. Then they could use DBS polarity, et al. Would the FCC allow them to do this?

I doubt any of the current International channels will move from 61.5 and 148 because it would be very expensive and an un-necissary hassle, if E* did this it would be very costly. What we will see is new International channels added in the future going to 121.

In-orbit backups will not move either, 105 and 121 are FSS band KU wile and E* does not own or able to lease DBS band at these slots.

I read somewhere on these forums from a dealer who attended Team Summit say that the new SuperDish local markets will be split between 121 and 105. It appears to me that 105 will have locals and HDTV, 121 will have locals and International. Most subs who need the SuperDish will need it for either 105/110/119 or 110/119/121. I do not know for sure but I suspect a Superdish could probably do a four slot 105/110/119/121 for the small number of subs who need this and I have no clue as to weather a 2-dish 5 slot setup will be supported or not?

[drjake]

I was at Team Summit and I reiterate that I was told that 105 was going to be used for up to 50 channels of HD as well as some locals and that 121 would be used for locals. 100 Channels were announced for international but nobody confirmed what satellite they were going on.

[AJ2086]

If Charlie would have put Hartford Locals up sometime soon we would have gone with E*, but he didnt and there was no rumor of it coming so we went with D*. Now they have announced 42 new markets and Hartford isnt even mentioned.

[Jacob S]

How about those that have internationals that would have to get 105, 110, 119 61.5/148 then wanting locals at 121? Perhaps the worry about HD at 121 for having to use that spot as well will not have to be worried about for those subs but what about those that need 105 for HD, 110, 119 for their base/movie packages, 121 for locals, and 61.5 for sky angel or 61.5/148 for the rest of the internationals?

Now another question I have, are they going to use the 121 slot for these new locals they just announced then 105 next year for the rest of the 150 markets they said they would provide or are they going to go ahead and use 105 first for these locals they just announced? What about a 4 orbital slot dish or making this new SuperDish support 4 lnbf's?

[JohnH]

Well, there ain't much activity on Gstar-4 right now. It was launched in 1990 with a 12 year expected life. Living on borrowed time, it seems. :)
Haven't seen a backhaul there in months.
It will be interesting trying to align on this with a healthy AMC 1 only 2 degrees to the east and a super healthy Anik F1 only 2.3 degrees to the west with Star choice.
Of course Gstar-4 being in a slightly inclined orbit might help. :)
Funny, I mentioned the possibility of using this bird in another thread somewhere today.

[Jacob S]

Would Dish take their chances with a satellite that should have already been dead until another one is launched?

[Guest]

I believe Dish's new international programming at 121W is aimed to compete against the new TARBS service on G10R at 123W. TARBS has been in Australia several years and is trying to get started here in the US. Like Dish, they plan to offer international channels and along with selected American channels for a monthly fee. The programming at 123W has been FTA with an announced start of subcriptions in April but last I heard they are still FTA (I have been on the road a month so I cannot confrim they are still FTA). Their site does not have much info on the US service but you can an idea of their business model from their Australian services.
http://www.tarbs.net/home.htm

[Ken_F]

Jacob,

Well, if they use G-STAR 4, there won't be much going up on it, that's for sure. Also, from what I've read elsewhere, the radiated power on G-STAR 4 is pretty low these days--perhaps to prolong the life of the satellite? It remains to be seen how feasible it will be to obtain a signal, or how prone it will be to rain fade with a 26" dish.

[JohnH]

Ken, I don't think there is any activity on G-Star 4 now. It is also inclined slightly That would make signal on a BUD appear to be low. The last analog transmission I saw there was an SES Card. It wasn't too bad.

[Jacob S]

Then that leaves out 105 for the rest of the year, until 3rd quarter 2004 for the 42 locals to go to, or a part of them at least. They would go to 121 instead after they get the satellite launched there. Rainfade may actually be better on 121 since its a lower power satellite that uses a bigger dish. DBS signals have a higher rainfade problem since they are higher powered.

[Darkman]

Originally posted by drjake
I was at Team Summit and I reiterate that I was told that 105 was going to be used for up to 50 channels of HD as well as some locals and that 121 would be used for locals. 100 Channels were announced for international but nobody confirmed what satellite they were going on.

Is there a list of all 100 internationals they are planning on having?
Or which new ones did they mention?
(cuz in the press released they mentioned in a kinda vague way, some channels from Asia incuding Phillippins, Africa, etc..)

Thanks

[Ken_F]

Jacob,

Just because there isn't much if anything on G-Star 4 now, doesn't mean that Echostar won't put a few HD channels there.

E*IX going to 121 is not a low power satellite. E*IX @ 121 will have comparable power to the 61.5 and 148 slots, and greater than the satellite currently at 105.

[Jacob S]

I meant a lowER power satellite than what is at 110/119. So the medium power satellite at 121 when it gets launched could be picked up by an 18 inch dish (if it were not so close to the other satellites to cause interference not having to focus it more onto 121)? I thought some on here had said that it was a lower powered satellite than what was at 110/119.

Why is there not going to be any spotbeams put on 121? That would have increases space dramatically, although that would be good for those that may want to travel away from the spot beam and still get the signal in nationwide, although would have to use the bigger dish.

I also wonder if in some areas that one could use a little bit of a smaller dish to bring the channels in, just as some can use a travel dish that is only 15 inches to get the signal in, although it would be a little weaker, it would still work.

[drjake]

They didn't get specific on new channels other than local markets at team summit.

[Ken_F]

Jacob,

So the medium power satellite at 121 when it gets launched could be picked up by an 18 inch dish (if it were not so close to the other satellites to cause interference not having to focus it more onto 121)? The need for a larger dish for 121 has nothing to do with the power. An 18" dish is possible for DBS because the orbital slots are 9 degrees apart (101, 110, 119). With FSS, the orbital slots are 2 degrees apart, so for tuning 121, you have to deal with 117, 119, 123, and 125. Thus, a larger dish is needed to differentiate between 121 and these other slots; you would still need a larger dish for this purpose even if 121 was broadcasting at substantially more power than 110/119.

Why is there not going to be any spotbeams put on 121? That would have increases space dramatically, although that would be good for those that may want to travel away from the spot beam and still get the signal in nationwide, although would have to use the bigger dish.The design specifications for 121 were set a long time ago. At the time the specifications were proposed for 121, they didn't plan on using it for consumer DTH service--certainly not for locals; this became their backup plan after the merger failed.

It can take several years to construct a satellite, and design is not something you can really change once construction has begun.

[dmodemd]

Umm people.... the big issue: what about HD LOCALS?

Dish is DOOMED and back to square one on locals if they don't have a plan to start rolling out HD locals. Cable companies are rolling it out now and soon people wont be buying anything that doesnt give them HD because it will be obsolete.

Sure they have the 921 that can integrate OTA but thats all right now and then you are back to putting up an antenna and this sets them back a few years again despite all this bandwidth they have dedicated to locals.

They are going to have to slow down their rollout with SD locals to provide HD locals. Im just really wondering how they plan to handle this - it could be a killer for them.

[AJ2086]

SHIVA is going to have to be re-worked when this happens. DBS companys fought for years to make it to all 210 markets and they are finally getting there, by the time they finish they will be starting over with HD locals. Unless they come out with some new compressions they are screwed.

[RAD]

Originally posted by dmodemd
Umm people.... the big issue: what about HD LOCALS?

Dish is DOOMED and back to square one on locals if they don't have a plan to start rolling out HD locals.

I'm not so sure about this statement. The only reason I have LIL on Dish is for the improved picture quality vs. NTSC OTA. But using the same antenna in the attic I get a great picture on all the ATSC channels (except for the one down on channel 3 which is a pain for many in Chicago). With STB's that seamlessly handle Dish and OTA signals I really don't need the LIL's.

I will be concerned when all the satellite channels that are out there now go to HDTV, then Dish will have a problem, heck all the permium movie channels out there would just about take all their HD capacity.

[BobMurdoch]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Are they crazy to build the smart cards inside the receivers? What if there was a smart card swapout needed? Are they going to lower piracy this way so that customers will not try to hackd the card since there would be none and the chip be made inside or what? They would just take the receiver apart to do so.

I understood it to read that you could add the revised card later and deactivate the built in card (kind of like a video card being installed into a computer with video built in to the motherboard... the card would deactivate the built in "card" and take over security functions......

[davhol]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Then that leaves out 105 for the rest of the year, until 3rd quarter 2004 for the 42 locals to go to, or a part of them at least. They would go to 121 instead after they get the satellite launched there. Rainfade may actually be better on 121 since its a lower power satellite that uses a bigger dish. DBS signals have a higher rainfade problem since they are higher powered.

I believe rainfade has less to do with power and MORE to do with frequency (I think you worded your statement wrong: more power means LESS rainfade, independent of dish size.... this is the "inverse square" law of physics). We are talking microwave frequencies here. The reason your microwave oven works is because the klystron is emitting frequencies that resonate with the water in your food and thus, heat up when excited. The FSS frequencies used by 105/121 will be closer to the resonant frequency of water and thus the need for a bigger dish (along with being able to separate them in the sky from adjacent slots...)

[Jacob S]

That reminds me of the videocypher boards that has a place for the cards. This would help piracy but the ones that really wanted to pirate the systems could just go to where the chip is at.

I believe that Dish is going to do away with the 301's and the replacement will be the new 111's and 311's, the ones that are improved (smaller in some cases) and have no smart card.

[Scott Greczkowski]

They are going to have to slow down their rollout with SD locals to provide HD locals. Im just really wondering how they plan to handle this - it could be a killer for them.I have been saying this for almost 2 years now.

I don't think there is anything in the business plan for converting over when analog stations start going dark.

[tampa8]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
I have been saying this for almost 2 years now.

I don't think there is anything in the business plan for converting over when analog stations start going dark.

Why wouldn't it be an issue of just carrying the digital signal instead? (I'm not implying I know the answer - I'm just asking)

Having said that, I do see an upcoming issue of carrying HD locals. As the cable companies make this available and/or make them mainstream DBS will probably have to also. Granted with a guide integrated HD receiver, with an antenna you could get the HD locals pretty seemlessly, but not all can get their digital locals with the antenna facing in the same direction and a rotor would be needed. Probably not acceptable. Some need a very large antenna to receive their digital locals.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The problem is space, you can have 3 digital ota signals compressed together on one transponder (for a total of 3 channels) while currently the analog channels can be compressed to fit up to 14 channels on 1 channel.

That's the problem.

[Jacob S]

For one, there is only going to be a requirement to transmit digital signals, not HD, and HD is not popular enough yet and will not be popular enough for a while to come. It may be 2010 before HD gets rolling at a decent rate, and by that time there will be new compression schemes in which Dish Network and DirecTv will be able to use.

Perhaps there will be a lot less stations that are not the main networks to worry about at that time and new Dish technology as well to allow one to view orbital slots with a small receiving device. This is still a good ways from now. Dish and Direct may even be replacing some of their satellites before this time may come and will have more capacity and spot beams than what we have now.

Dish would simply start replacing the bigger markets with HD channels little by little as the smaller markets would not be broadcasting in HD yet for a bit longer, which will give them time.

I do believe that things will be starting all over again to launch local markets when it comes to having to broadcast the HD channels. Perhaps there will be new ways of broadcasting these local channels in the future as well, such as NorthPoint and so forth. There are so many things that could change before that would happen.

Perhaps a solution would be for everyone to have their national HD network and then when the news comes on it will switch over to SD over spot beams. The problem with this is that there could be weather or news warnings. The issue with that is that there is no local advertising though so this may not work anyways.

[tampa8]

I guess if they are not planning for this then they are foolish. They certainly have some time left to figure it out. On that same note, without spending money on a digital receiver, how many can receive ota digital signals yet? Very very few statistically speaking. For those without cable or dbs, it might be awhile before they can get digital signals. But I would agree most locals will want to shut down the analog transmitters as soon as possible to save money.

[Jacob S]

Even if the analog feeds get shut down, the signal is digital now anyways, so that would not affect Dish in that manner. It would be those that want the digital signal on their digital tv's. Then all of the channels whether they are locals or cable networks would have to become digital. I thought I heard that it would be next year when all new satellite receivers would end up having digital outputs on them for digital tv's, but not sure.

[huzefa]

What I don't understand is why they would put any new international channels on 121 instead of just adding them to 61.5? PPl who subscribe to international channels, such as the large South Asian community who pay $50 a month to receive 5 channels, would be much happier to pay $100 a month to receive 15 channels, but only as long as they didn't have to put up another dish. Why not make it easy for customers and move some (or all) of the HD/spanish and any other non-international programming to 105? Pretty much all the HD ppl are going to upgrade to the new superdish anyway; they can also have the added benefit of being able to take down their 61.5 dish.

[BobMurdoch]

The west coast can't see the 61.5 bird.........

[huzefa]

Originally posted by BobMurdoch
The west coast can't see the 61.5 bird.........

Then mirror it on 148 like they do now. OR they could move ALL the international programming to one dish. If the consumer has to adjust, atleast make it easy for him. Put ALL the intl channels on ONE dish (i can always reaim that 61.5 dish)

[Darkman]

but it can see 148... so more likely if new Internationals were (let say) be put to 61.5, then they ll get mirrored at 148 as well....

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Even if the analog feeds get shut down, the signal is digital now anyways, so that would not affect Dish in that manner.

Jacob some times I wish you knew what you were talking about. :)

Let's see if I can explain this better

All Channels are transmitted on DISH Network are in DIGITAL

All Local Channels being sent by Dish Network are in DIGITAL format

HOWEVER

No local DIGITAL Local Channels are being broadcast in Dish except for WCBS and KCBS (CBS HD E & W)

When all channels shut off their ANALOG signals they will all be broadcasting DIGITAL Signals (Like CBS HD on Dish) these Digital signals are much more bandwidth intensive and may contain additional sub channels, some channels may be HD some may not.

These Digital Channels will require much more space then the current analog channels carried on Dish do currently.

The question will come up (if Dish does not start planning) is "How come my local channels look better on cable then they do on satellite?" Cable companies will carry the full Digital versions of the stations. The stations will not be compressed on cable.

So yes locals now are indeed Digital on Dish but only because Dish makes them Digital, they are receiving an analog signal and converting them to Digital, in the future the signal Dish receives will be Digital and will have to be sent out digital.

Hope this clears this up more. :)

[Chris Freeland]

I agree, I think E* should place all International programing on 61.5 and 148. Place all locals not on 110 and 119 spotbeams on 105 and 121, all HDTV on 105 and leave core and Spanish on 110 and 119. Move as many current 61.5 and 148 locals as possible to 110 and 119 spotbeams, a small number of local markets currently on 110/119 spotbeams may need to relocate to 105 or 121 but most could stay on 110/119 spotbeams. Many International subs do not receive core or Spanish programing so they would only need a single 18" dish, the ones that do could still combine this with a Dish 500 or a SuperDish. Most core and Spanish subs could make do with a single Dish 500, others would need just a single SuperDish. Most HDTV subs would need just a single SuperDish, a few might need either a SuperDish with 4 LNB's if this dish will handle 4 slots or two 2-LNB SuperDishes if not or a Superdish with 2nd dish for 61.5 or 148. Their may be a small minority who will need to see 5 or 6 slots, but this would be a very small number. The vast majority of E* subs would only need a single Dish 500 or SuperDish.

[Jacob S]

Thats why I had asked in another post about how the digital signal we get today would be different than the digital signal we would get in the future since the feed from the station would change from analog to digital and that Dish would have to make receivers that take the different digital signal and have it output digital instead of analog like it is today.

[Guest]

A post at Kusat's forum site says that "internal TARBS sources" say E will be taking over the TARBS international signals on G10 at 121 after E9 is launched. They will become part of E's new international package.

http://www.canadian-tv.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=FTA&Number=103718&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

PS-sorry if I broke any rules about links to other forums.

[sampatterson]

Darn, TARBS is free for the most part on my FTA receiver...

[Ray_Clum]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
The problem is space, you can have 3 digital ota signals compressed together on one transponder (for a total of 3 channels) while currently the analog channels can be compressed to fit up to 14 channels on 1 channel.

That's the problem.

Scott, do you mean HD digital OTA signals or SD digital OTA signals? It was my understanding that the bandwith requirements for SD digital would be even less than current analog...

[Scott Greczkowski]

Well it would be a combo of both, and in reality SD Digital stations for the most part are using about as much bandwidth as full blown HD channels due to the fact that many broadcasters are upconverting their analog signals to 1080i on their Digital signals.

(Confused yet?) :D

[Guest]

sampatterson, TARBS was actually supposed to go to subscription in April. But they have waited so long and several of the channels have gone back to the test patterns, you had to figure something is up. Enjoy while it last on FTA.

[jerryez]

Technology advances in leaps and bounds. Dish has at least four years before it needs to send out locals in DTS. I have no doubt that better compression or whatever is needed will be developed in far less than the four years available. Look at technical advances in the last four years.

[Jacob S]

How many channels per transponder were they doing with their compression schemes when they first started in 1997 vs. what they have now?

Isnt digital signals going to be required in 2006?

If digital signals is going to be required then wouldnt everyone have to swap out their receivers? If so this would be the time for both DirecTv and Dish subscribers to use the same encryption scheme and share bandwidth using the same satellites.

[Geronimo]

Not sure I understand Jake. Yes OTA will have to be digiital eventually (though it mey be delayed) but whty does that affect DBS? We are digital now. Please explain.

[Mike123abc]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Not sure I understand Jake. Yes OTA will have to be digiital eventually (though it mey be delayed) but whty does that affect DBS? We are digital now. Please explain.

DBS digital is a low resolution picture. The big risk that DBS may face one day is that the FCC may rule that they must carry the full digital picture and not be able to lower the resolution. DBS is running 2-3megabit/sec per channel. HDTV digital is 19.3 megabit/sec.

Also the risk is that local stations may decide to multiplex several lower resolution channels in their feed too, DBS might be required to carry all of them too.

A lot is up in the air as far as digital over the air is concerned. But, since the technical problems of doing HDTV over DBS is not going to be instantely solved, I would expect that if the FCC decided that they must carry the full HDTV picture they would give them a 5+ year window to manufacture and launch satellites. They could do it in a 10 year transition window... the top 20 market major nets first followed by the next 20 each year. Then all the secondary stations.

[abospaum]

Are any of the satellite manufacturers looking to really add new technology to these satellites. When we look at the technology of computers and communications there have been leaps and bounds. You would think that they would be able to advance technology to the point of producing satellites with a lot more bandwidth, more transponders and with lower power consumption than in the past. The growth to me seems to be very incremental rather than leaps and bounds.

When will we see a satellite with over 100 transponders that will be able to carry 100's of full HDTV pictures? Is the tecnology out there but too costly or is nobody working on this?

[rvd420]

Dish could built spot only sat for 61.5 and a spot sat for 148 to be able to provide full digital ota locals. Another uplink station or two would also be needed for 61.5.

[Jacob S]

What I meant was Dish is providing a digital signal now but it gets converted back to analog for the analog tv's. This may be a different type of digital than the requirement the FCC allows or the FCC may not allow a digital to analog conversion of this matter. An all digital signal all the way to the tv set may be a requirement.

[Mike123abc]

Originally posted by abospaum
When will we see a satellite with over 100 transponders that will be able to carry 100's of full HDTV pictures? Is the technology out there but too costly or is nobody working on this?

Satellite technology has not really benefited from the economies of scale that other electronic items benefit from. If you can only make 2-3/year of an item, you cannot cut the costs and pay for development of new stuff.

The main limits on satellites today are:

1. solar cell capacity. 15kw is about as big as they get today. Transponders take up to 250 watts each. Spot ones are less, but could go up to 100watts

2. The size of the satellite (launch vehicle only so big). Each spot requires its own antenna (dish) that has to be deployed when it gets into space. They have to be solid metal dishes, and are not folded, so they have to be on an arm that can deploy after launch.

3. limits on weight, satellites have 2-3x redundancy on every item, so you are launching 2-3 satellites in theory. It is impossible to fix things in space, so you need backups for your backups.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by Jacob S
What I meant was Dish is providing a digital signal now but it gets converted back to analog for the analog tv's. This may be a different type of digital than the requirement the FCC allows or the FCC may not allow a digital to analog conversion of this matter. An all digital signal all the way to the tv set may be a requirement.

No, the FCC does allow for a digital to analog conversion. Once all ota tv stations go digital, most of us will still have analog tv's and vcr's, if their were no digital to analog conversions allowed, all of those millions of analog tv's and vcr's would be totally obsolete, however the FCC is allowing set top boxes to be the device to convert digital to analog, those of us that sub to E* or D* locals will already have a digital converter with are current satellite receiver. The cable tv company's will continue to have their most basic cable tiers in analog for sometime, they will simply convert the digital ota signal to analog at the cable head-inn to pass on to their subs in analog. Those with out cable or satellite locals and get their locals ota with an antenna will need to either purchase a set-top box to receive digital ota to convert to analog or replace their analog tv's and vcr with digital ones or sub to cable or satellite.

[Jacob S]

Ok, that is what I was trying to figure out. The thoughts I have on this is if most of the people (I thought I read about 85% somewhere) have cable or satellite then how is the digital requirement going to force them to get digital tv's and so forth in which is the whole purpose of getting the signals changed to the digital signal?

Is it that they are just phasing it out in that they are going to allow the digital to analog conversion while requiring all new tv's that are to be made in the future be digital? And those that want the free channels OTA will eventually get a digital tv?

What about those that get a digital tv and sub to cable or satellite and want the digital feed instead of the analog? Could they be capable of providing both feeds or would they purhaps have a convertor at the home instead to change it from digital back to analog for all the signals rather than just providing everyone with the analog signals? Or perhaps have the digital feed for the channels that are digital at least for those that do have the digital tv's.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Ok, that is what I was trying to figure out. The thoughts I have on this is if most of the people (I thought I read about 85% somewhere) have cable or satellite then how is the digital requirement going to force them to get digital tv's and so forth in which is the whole purpose of getting the signals changed to the digital signal?

Is it that they are just phasing it out in that they are going to allow the digital to analog conversion while requiring all new tv's that are to be made in the future be digital? And those that want the free channels OTA will eventually get a digital tv?

What about those that get a digital tv and sub to cable or satellite and want the digital feed instead of the analog? Could they be capable of providing both feeds or would they purhaps have a convertor at the home instead to change it from digital back to analog for all the signals rather than just providing everyone with the analog signals? Or perhaps have the digital feed for the channels that are digital at least for those that do have the digital tv's.

Yes, digital is being phased in over time, the biggest tv's have to have digital tuners first, all new tv's will be required to have digital tuners by 2007 if I am not mistaken. Many tv's over the next few years will have both analog and digital tuners, digital tv's will be capable of receiving digital cable with out a STB, DBS will still need them unless some tv manufactures build the satellite tuner in for D* and or E* in to their products. HD Satellite receivers already have direct digital connections and I suspect future SD Satellite receivers will have some form of direct digital connections too.

[Jacob S]

I thought I heard it was 2006 for all tv's and 2004 for all big screen tv's. Maybe its by the end of 2007, but I figure a lot will already have them out by then.

The price of analog tv's have already dropped a lot but i suspect that they will really start to drop when the digital tv's will come out even more.

I wonder what the analog bandwidth would be used for if not for tv? Before I would think that they would still use it for something for tv but realize that they could use it for some other type of communication I believe.

[Big Bob]

Originally posted by Jacob S


I wonder what the analog bandwidth would be used for if not for tv? Before I would think that they would still use it for something for tv but realize that they could use it for some other type of communication I believe.

I believe that is will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. I am not sure if the space has been alocated to any purpose yet. But I do remember that the plan is to auction it off. For a VERY VERY high price. 

[Jacob S]

With all of the analog equipment and tv's out there I wonder if they could be used for the new purpose and if that has anything to do with why it may be so high, either that or it contains a lot of bandwidth.