Dish 811/921 Software Feature Requests

[Ken_F]

For those 6000 owners out there, what sort of HDTV-specific software improvements or changes would you like to see on the 811 and 921?

[Ken_F]

Off the top of my head, I would really like to see:

1) Optional all native HDTV output mode -- output 1080i as 1080i, 720p as 720p, 480p and 480p, and 480i at whatever you find works/looks best (i.e. 480p or 720p). This is a necessity to maximize performance on the new and upcoming 1080p displays where any HD format conversion will reduce quality. This will also maximize quality on those monitors that can do both 720p and 1080i natively.

2) Direct tuning of OTA digital broadcasts in the guide -- Currently, to tune to channel 52 on the 6000, I have to tune to channel 052 in the guide, then tune to channel 52-1 through a sub-menu. It makes absolutely no sense to have to go through a separate sub-menu, particularly when there are no sub-channels (or when I have deleted the sub-channels);

3) In the program guide, indicate whether a satellite program is in HDTV with a HDTV logo or special colouring. By clearly identifying HDTV programming in the guide itself, new viewers are much less likely to be confused when 4:3 content is shown on HBO, Showtime, ESPN-HD, etc, because they will see that it wasn't offered in HD given the absence of a logo in the guide. Even if the guide is wrong sometimes in this regard, that's still a lot better than not having it at all. Please try to work with your programming information supplier to support this at around the time of the 811/921 launch.

4) Improve OTA integration with programming information for local DTV broadcasts -- on my cable HDTV STB (need it for the HDTV RSN), the guide lists the same programming information for the HDTV networks that is shown for the analog feeds, so I don't have to guess what is showing -- this makes recording and scheduling much more intuitive. If possible, the 811/921 should do the same thing, particularly if you are not going to integrate PSIP information directly into the program guide. You can do this by adding an option to specify the ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX network affiliation of the channel or subchannel in locals setup, and then just mirror the programming information from the network or local feeds on satellite. Even if you do offer PSIP in the guide, this would be a nice override option, as some channels still do not do acceptable PSIP, and that will require users to make custom timers to record OTA programming.

5) If you could use programming information from the satellite locals/networks for the OTA digital channels (by network affiliation setting in locals setup), then perhaps there might eventually be some way for you to specify in the guide that a network program is in HDTV where available?

6) Satellite connection requirement for OTA - I understand Dish doesn't want people buying the 921 just for OTA, but please make your satellite connection requirement more intelligent / less intrusive. It is not acceptable to be unable to change local OTA channels on the 811/921 during bad weather when the satellite signal is lost. When it rains, I should still be able to bring up the guide to change OTA channels.

7) Give some indication whether a given OTA channel or sub-channel is broadcast in a HDTV ATSC format, and if so, possibly what ATSC format. It would be great if you could somehow identify the HDTV OTA channels in the guide with either a HDTV logo by the channel name, or with a different color. That way, if a broadcaster was doing one or more subchannels, the user could easily differentiate the HD from the SD subchannels in the guide, without having to tune in to each subchannel to find the one with HD content. Note some broadcasters differentiate by using SD or HD in the PSIP names for their channels, but many do not.

[Cyclone]

Please just don't change the signal meter from 0-100 scale to a red/yellow/green format.

[Mike123abc]

I would like to see the ability to have the standard defs come out in 480i, and the box only switch to 720/1080 if the source material was in that format. This would help with 4:3 screens. I so not mind the letterbox when watching HDTV, but when I flip over to STDTV I get the small 4:3 pic in the middle of the screen unless I flip around input to Svideo.

[DarrellP]

Ditto to everything Ken_F said.

Plus: Simultaneous output to HD and SD outputs.

Ken_F, I don't know if channel 52 is a quirk for the 6000 since my highest channel is 49, but you should be able to key in 05201 and tune in ch. 52 directly.

[sampatterson]

I agree with Ken_F on his points:

Plus:

Allow more modes to stretch the 4:3 picture. Toshiba and Sony TVs have a good mode that keeps the center of the picture in the correct aspect ratio and stretches the sides more.

921: Put an "option bay" in or an "expansion box" to allow 2 or more hard drives to be added.

921:, Allow networking between the boxes so that I can watch any PVRd movies, anywhere in the house on other 921s, schedule events to record on the web, etc (like the new Tivo edition allows).

[ericha]

From Ken F:
"6) Satellite connection requirement for OTA - I understand Dish doesn't want people buying the 921 just for OTA, but please make your satellite connection requirement more intelligent / less intrusive. It will is not acceptable to be unable to change local OTA channels on the 811/921 during bad weather when the satellite signal is lost. When it rains, I should still be able to bring up the guide to change OTA channels."

On the surface, this makes sense--since Dish is a satellite provider, they want people to use their service.  But when you think about it, why would you want to eliminate customers?  Unless of course you subsidize the price of the equipment.  I'm sure lots of people would like an ATSC HDTV PVR, even if they don't plan on using Dish.  If subsidies are the real issue, give people a rebate for signing up to use Dish for a year, rather than making it hard to use the box for ATSC reception.

[Ken_F]

Darrel,

Yes, if you are on a channel, you can tune directly by typing 05201.

But when there are no subchannels, or I when have deleted the subchannels, shouldn't I just be able to scroll down to 52 in the program guide, hit select, and have it display the channel? The extra sub-menu is just an added step that reduces usability, imo.

[John T]

I still get frozen when pressing the guide button if I'm on an OTA channel. Not always, but it would be nice to fix that.

[DarrellP]

Ken_F, no, you can't just scroll down and select it from the guide because that is not how the digital structure works. They are mapped as sub-channels even if there is only one, but it would be nice if you could do it that way.

John T, don't press the guide button when you are OTA, use the transparent browse and scroll to the channel you want.

[Ken_F]

Darrel,

There's nothing about the digital structure that prevents them from listing, say 52-1, in the guide with the satellite channels for direct selection. Most DirecTV HDTV receivers do it that way---they list the channels and subchannels directly in the guide with the satellite channels.

Since I remove all the SD subchannels from the guide anyway, I end up with only a single HDTV channel under each channel sub menu. I would rather that these just be listed directly in the guide as on most DirecTV receivers, and possibly with the programming information mirrored from the satellite locals or networks (which is what I get on HDTV channels through cable).

[mbart0656]

My desires would be:

1) Allow for 480i output or 480p output on the same port as the HD signal.

2) Someone else mentioned it but direct tunig rather than going through sub-channels and possible a user note to state that a particular subchannel is WS, 4:3 or other. It seems most of our local channels only use the subchannels to use widescreen or 4:3.

[Eyedox]

For God's sake, please enable HAVi on the FIREWIRE ports on the 921 so that us MITSUBISHI owners can enjoy digital connections for more than just bit-dumps to D-VHS HD-VCRs. I don't want to be stuck with component analog connections. DVI sucks.

[Ken_F]

Eyedox,

Unfortunately, I don't think full PVR functionality is going to be possible with Firewire display out and HAVi. The dual tuner functionality, including picture and picture, as well as pause, instant replay, fast forward, rewind, etc is all provided by the Broadcom MP@HL decoder chipset that integrates PVR functionality. When you use Firewire output, you are bypassing the Broadcom MP@HL decoder and display circuitry in the 921 that does the processing for some of the PVR tasks. That means by using Firewire for display, you automatically lose some basic PVR playback features.

Assuming the Firewire output is a class 2, they could probably support stop and play for Firewire display output on the 921, but I think the lack of all the other functionality would just be confusing for customers; customers would have trouble understanding why their PVR had such limited functionality when Firewire was used. As a result, Mitsubishi users will need to use their component connections (or DVI connections on new models).

From what I understand, here's how it looks: With DVI/component output, you have the Dish transport stream -> HDTV MPEG-2 -> 921 MP@HL decoder -> PVR display processing -> DVI. With Firewire output, you have the Dish transport stream -> HDTV MPEG-2 -> Firewire output -> Mits Firewire input -> Mitsubishi integrated MP@HL decoder (with no PVR hardware).

[chelsea]

1.) Improved remote. Feather touch buttons like the Hughes.
Bigger Page up & down button. How do you fit a finger on it now?
Why cant we pay extra for the RF/UHF remote & antenna, instead of losing this function?
2) Channels Logo's. It will help channel surfing.
3) Changable colors in Guide. The one & only blue is worn,welcome, Different shades of blue and extra colors please.
4)Sports Teams names. Now the guide says just, MLBaseball.
How bout,Example: L.A. Dodgers @ N.Y. Mets.

[Ken_F]

8) Use 16:9 for guide --> when a 16:9 display is configured in setup, please use the entire 16:9 screen to display more guide information, rather than using a 4:3 screen for the guide as seen on the 6000. DirecTV HDTV receivers do offer a 16:9 guide.

More possible software features some people would like to see, although these are out on the fringe....

9) Add "Split screen" PIP option in menu options -- when this was set or selected using an additional press of the PIP button, the 921 would split a 16:9 screen down the middle and display two channels simultaneously (using two tuners), rather than using a small PIP window; the audio would always be given for the window on the left-hand side, with the swap function used to swap the two channels and their audio. This feature would also let the user browse the guide with half the screen, while having a much bigger picture shown on the screen for the other tuner.

If the MP@HL can decode two HD channels at once (which I doubt), then you would display them either cropped or in letterbox format side by side; when side-by-side PIP was used for two 4:3 SD, the active channel could possibly even use the 4:3 aspect/display modes, although that wouldn't be necessary. Such a split screen option didn't make sense on the 721, but a high percentage of customers will be using the 921 with widescreen televisions, many of which do have split screen functionality for NTSC and/or two different video inputs.

10) Channel Collage option --> the receiver would use dual tuners (when available) take snapshots of the content currently showing on either a user-defined selection of 6-12 channels, or possibly the last 6-12 channels that were tuned, and then display these shots in a single collage screen. A number of televisions like the Pioneer elite already provide this feature for analog using NTSC tuners, but nobody does yet for digital, afaik.

[sampatterson]

Ken_F, #8 is a great one! I would extend it to the entire UI, not just the guide.

Since we are getting a little outlandish on some stuff how about making the guide "skinnable" so we can put our own HTML templates for the guide and make it look and work how we want. It is a linux box after all!

Better and more favorites lists would also be nice.

[Ken_F]

Allow more modes to stretch the 4:3 picture. Toshiba and Sony TVs have a good mode that keeps the center of the picture in the correct aspect ratio and stretches the sides more.I agree. It looks like the Tivo HD PVR will have this, so it would be good for the 811/921 to have it as well. Here's a screenshot of the proposed display modes from Tivo's recent HDTV survey (resized to make image smaller):

http://kfowler.bizland.com/tivohdtv.jpg

[sampatterson]

Exactly what I mean on the aspect ratio wish.

If they can't add upgradeable harddrive bay, how about supporting the ability to hook as many 1394 firewire harddrives to increase the storage capacity for PVR'd movies!!!!  You could add 3 or 4 250 gigers to allow ALOT of HDTV storage.

[DarrellP]

Ken, #8 is high on my wishlist as well. I would also like to see the size not change between 1080i & 720p, that is really annoying. If they would use the full 16:9 screen, they could probably display 4 hours worth of programming.

[Ken_F]

sam,

Firewire hard drive expansion would be great, but I think they'd have to incorporate hardware-based encryption? And if the 921 doesn't include the necessary encryption hardware, then a design change might be required? I don't want to see another delay.

Tivo uses much of the same Broadcom hardware seen in the 721 and 921, and they are able to encrypt SDTV for transmission over local networks with the Home Media Option. Unfortunately, this substantially increases their transmission bit-rate requirements, although it's not clear whether the same % increase would hold true for HD broadcasts.

[Spartan]

How about try and get half of the 100 problems with the 921 resolved in the next couple of months? I've had a 921 for over a month and have spent 4 times as much time solving problems or talking to tech support as I have actually watching TV. HD PVR, Highly Disgusting Personal Vomit Receptor. Anyone wanna buy my coveted 921? I'll give it to you free if you promise to throw it thru Charlie Ergen's kitchen window while he's having his morning coffee from his E* logoed cup. No I think he does that in his limo, so how about throwing it thru Charlie's limo window when he's having his morning coffee while reading the Wall St. Journal's latest article on Echostar's meteoric stock prices.
(Editor please note: I do not endorse violence or bodily harm to any person or persons, living or dead. All names mentioned here are fictional and any resemblence to persons living or dead in this country or the kingdom of Bulgaria is purely coincidental)

[MarkoC]

6) Satellite connection requirement for OTA - I understand Dish doesn't want people buying the 921 just for OTA

I understand Dish having this requirement when someone gets a DVR through an upgrade or at a significantly reduced price, but if someone pays $1000 for a piece of equipment, IMO they should be able to do whatever they want with it.

[SimpleSimon]

... when he's having his morning coffee while reading the Wall St. Journal's latest article on Echostar's meteoric stock prices.
Hmmm. Have you noticed the correlation between DISH prices and the 921 non-release, release, and problems? Hey CHARLIE - have YOU noticed???

Notice the big volume spike in February - that's when I got MY 921. :hurah:

Notice that big drop in May - drop of DishWire? :nono2: