Please Explain Satellites 99 & 103 to me [Archive]

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bighoopla

01-10-09, 01:11 AM

I'm new and have signal problems. Please help.

This is from another forum here on DBSTALK:

11 satellites are needed to provide a projected total of 3,200 local channels and 550 national channels.

Satellite Locations:
99° W Longitude - HD Local channels
103° W Longitude - Some HD Local & the "new" HD channels
101° W Longitude - SD national and Local channels and more
119° W Longitude - SD national and local channels
110° W Longitude - HD national channels

In my HR22 set-up it lists two satellites for 99° & 103°. They are:
99°(c) - Good strong signal on several transponders
99°(s) - ZERO signal strength or N/A on all transponders - says, "Not Aquired"
103°(c) - Good strong signal on several transponders
103°(s) - only 2 transponders work - one at 22% - one at 95%

What do the (c) & (s) mean? Could the 99°(s) or 103°(s) satellites be causing my periodic signal loss or explain why some shows say "HD" in the guide, but I appear only to be getting a 480i picture upscaled to 720p or 1080i even when tuned to the HD channel. Oprah and Ellen are like this for me in the DC area.

Johnnie5000

01-10-09, 05:03 AM

veryoldschool

01-10-09, 06:30 AM

Could the 99°(s) or 103°(s) satellites be causing my periodic signal loss or explain why some shows say "HD" in the guide, but I appear only to be getting a 480i picture upscaled to 720p or 1080i even when tuned to the HD channel. Oprah and Ellen are like this for me in the DC area.
A lot of "daytime" programing is still SD produced and simply broadcast on an HD channel.
Primetime network shows may be the only HD programing.

BattleZone

01-10-09, 10:25 AM

Even worse, many local stations either cannot or will not broadcast in HD daytime syndicated shows, such as Oprah, which recently went to HD. This is usually because they haven't spend the money on replacing the equipment they use to handle syndicated shows, which are distributed differently than, say, primetime network programming. So, even if a show is shot in HD, your local channel, which sends out HD during primetime, may only be showing you SD during the day. You'd get the same experience via an OTA antenna, receiving the broadcast directly from the local station.

Expect these issues to resolve themselves over the next couple of years. It would have been faster, but the economy is really going to slow things down as local stations slash their operating budgets.

1948GG

01-10-09, 11:03 AM

C = Conus Beam = National
S = Spot Beam = Local

I don't know if you're supposed to have a 99 or 103 spot beam where you're at. If your HD locals work fine, then don't worry about it. If they don't, get a tech out there.

Since the OP refuses to say where they're actually located, and (so far) actual transponder signal numbers, I look forward to "yet another thread that goes on for (at least) 10-20 minimum posts with irrelevant back and forth chatter resolving nothing".

All the information about DirecTV and the satellites is excellently written up in 'stickies' at the top of the relevant forums. Start there, unless someone wants to re-write everything in this thread, if so, go to it.

I'm going to pull that old saw "what if your car had trouble?" out, and say follow the same (basic) troubleshooting techniques. Where are you at, what do you have, what is the exact symptom, list ALL of what the gauges are telling you. Then we'll have a solid starting point.

veryoldschool

01-10-09, 11:29 AM

Since the OP refuses to say where they're actually located, and (so far) actual transponder signal numbers, I look forward to "yet another thread that goes on for (at least) 10-20 minimum posts with irrelevant back and forth chatter resolving nothing".

All the information about DirecTV and the satellites is excellently written up in 'stickies' at the top of the relevant forums. Start there, unless someone wants to re-write everything in this thread, if so, go to it.

I'm going to pull that old saw "what if your car had trouble?" out, and say follow the same (basic) troubleshooting techniques. Where are you at, what do you have, what is the exact symptom, list ALL of what the gauges are telling you. Then we'll have a solid starting point.
It's not too hard to find the answers to your questions here on this same forum: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=149667

Why not be just a bit nicer to a member who has only been here a week?

RobertE

01-10-09, 11:29 AM

Since the OP refuses to say where they're actually located, and (so far) actual transponder signal numbers, I look forward to "yet another thread that goes on for (at least) 10-20 minimum posts with irrelevant back and forth chatter resolving nothing".

All the information about DirecTV and the satellites is excellently written up in 'stickies' at the top of the relevant forums. Start there, unless someone wants to re-write everything in this thread, if so, go to it.

I'm going to pull that old saw "what if your car had trouble?" out, and say follow the same (basic) troubleshooting techniques. Where are you at, what do you have, what is the exact symptom, list ALL of what the gauges are telling you. Then we'll have a solid starting point.

But where would be the fun in that? If the poster actually gives even the most basic of information in the first couple of posts, it takes all the wild speculation, half-assed troubleshooting, and suggestions to email Ellen out of the equation. :rolleyes::lol::rolleyes::lol:

1948GG

01-10-09, 03:01 PM

But where would be the fun in that? If the poster actually gives even the most basic of information in the first couple of posts, it takes all the wild speculation, half-assed troubleshooting, and suggestions to email Ellen out of the equation. :rolleyes::lol::rolleyes::lol:

I just about went there.. but I thought (unlike VOS comment) that I was being very nice :)

There really, I mean REALLY, needs to be a 'basic start to troubleshooting' sticky at the top of every forum. VOS and a couple others, if either them (or I) had a buck for every thread that starts out around post 3 or 4 with the same litany... I could retire.

Wait! Hey! I AM retired! I started the process when I was 49, didn't let the door hit me on the backside a year later. Hmmm. :nono:

Folks, I was there (DirecTV) literally BEFORE the beginning, being a rep for one of the companies that provided some of the basic tech (Mpeg2 encoders) that got things off the ground. I've generally been a 'lurker' on this forum (and many others) before it was born, but coming in to troubleshoot not only individual problems like this, but the corporate process in general, was my bread and butter for well over 30 years.

DirecTV is right in that the installation process is their most out of joint and customer bouncing part of the process (I make a fair amount of coin doing engineering on the side under contract with independent MDU folks who sweep up a lot of the poor guys like the OP here, that have been festooned with bad installs). Ok, there we have some basis for discussion!

So, what we need is, given that we're in a 'chat' with the OP that has at least minutes, and probably hours, between ideas. So, back to the beginning. Hopefully, the most basic of information will be forthcoming within the next day or so.

But RobertE, your post made my day/week/maybe month! :D Now to the problem at hand, as we all want the DirecTV experience to be (horrors!) BETTER.

Canis Lupus

01-10-09, 04:07 PM

Respect. Now that you've revealed yourself, why not send a PM to a Mod with your suggestions of Basic troubleshooting stickies?

Maybe there's a good way to implement your plan, which I agree with :)

1948GG

01-10-09, 05:45 PM

Respect. Now that you've revealed yourself, why not send a PM to a Mod with your suggestions of Basic troubleshooting stickies?

Maybe there's a good way to implement your plan, which I agree with :)

Several sent over the last weeks/months/years (?). I've also sent PM's to several folks (probably VOS along with 2-3 others) to do the same. Gang up.

I bring this up on just about every 'troubleshooting' thread I jump into, which is getting to be pretty rare though. In the case of some of them, I just go to PM. Doesn't work very well.

Oh well, again, hope the OP gets back to the thread at some point.

bighoopla

01-11-09, 07:09 PM

Oh well, again, hope the OP gets back to the thread at some point.

I must enjoy the abuse, so I've returned with more info.;)

My signal strengths on 99/103 aren't as bad as I thought, but here's my problem.

Old 18" round dish with UltimateTV DVR - Rarely ever a glitch/blip in reception...only during bad storms

New HDTV Slimline-5 dish, 6x8 multiswitch, and HR22 DVR - periodic picture or sound stuttering and/or 2-3 second blackouts or pixelation about once for every 2 hours of television watched on average.

This is nothing major. It doesn't make watching TV impossible, but it's annoying. I only recall experiencing this problem on Local HD channels, but it may have happened on others. It happened today on my HR22 DVR in two different commercials during the CBS HD football game. I also had my UltimateTV DVR on the game in another room, so I immediately rewound it to the exact spot in those commercials where the hiccup occurred. It didn't happen on the UltimateTV DVR.

I'm in the northern Virginia area and receive the Washington, DC - Hagerstown, MD local HD channels. Here's a pic of my signal strengths on Tuner 1 of my HR22.

Thanks

veryoldschool

01-11-09, 08:59 PM

SteveDawg

01-12-09, 03:24 AM

Hey (me=very very newbie), just wanted to thank RobertE and 1948GG, your banter got me to finally join the forum, just now. thanx.

Keep It Real,
Keep It live.

SteveDawg

rudeney

01-12-09, 03:00 PM

:welcome_s SteveDawg and bighoopla! (and congrats to bighoopla for sticking in there and getting your questions answered!)

1948GG

01-12-09, 03:00 PM

I must enjoy the abuse, so I've returned with more info.;)

periodic picture or sound stuttering and/or 2-3 second blackouts or pixelation about once for every 2 hours of television watched on average.

I only recall experiencing this problem on Local HD channels, but it may have happened on others. It happened today on my HR22 DVR in two different commercials during the CBS HD football game. I also had my UltimateTV DVR on the game in another room, so I immediately rewound it to the exact spot in those commercials where the hiccup occurred. It didn't happen on the UltimateTV DVR.

I'm in the northern Virginia area and receive the Washington, DC - Hagerstown, MD local HD channels. Here's a pic of my signal strengths on Tuner 1 of my HR22.

Thanks

And thanks for coming back, and posting the sig readings.

As VOS and others have already commented on, your signals from all the sats are just peachy.

Since you were recording the SD (Ku/DBS on sat101) on that UltimateTV box, I gather the game/station on the HD/HR22 (Ka) feed, right?

Added: as you might have figured out by now, all the SD for you is on the Ku/DBS band, sat101, Mpeg2, 12Ghz, just like with the old 18" dish; all the HD is on the new Ka sats, Mpeg4, sats99/103, 18Ghz, so the two are different transmissions totally

And just for future reference, from the 100's on your 103(s) spot beam, your HD locals are (probably) on transponders 16/20, but you are in an area where several cities are overlapping (which is why the 101/SD/Ku/DBS spot beams on 101 are several transponders at or near 100). Out in the west, where things are much further apart, things are much more differentiated

Because the 'effect' you point out is the dreaded 'BRRRIP' glitch that ALL the Mpeg4/HD channels have been suffering from... well, just about day one.

The number of threads (including at least 2-3 I started) are all over the place. Some of the 'locals' are more sensitive (get it a lot more; the FIRST HD/Ka locals, like poorr Detroit, users were almost drive insane by this problem) than most of the national feeds (like CNN et. al.),

Until DirecTV, and/or their Mpeg4/encoder box suppliers, figure this problem out, we're stuck with it. Some users have figured out that it just might be the Dolby Digital that is at the root of the problem, but we're all at the end of the transmission chain, as the users, and boy, wouldn't a busload of us like to be in the DirecTV uplink center (like Castle Rock, CO), and given a couple hours, would figure out the problem.

Which in my mind, makes it somewhat apparently DirecTV knows where the problem is, and either can't get the Mpeg4/encoder supplier (mostly Harmonic now) or whatever else is involved, to FIX the stupid problem.

Not holding my breath. Over the years, in being brought in by several firms to figure out system problems just like this, it may be they can't see the forest for the trees.

veryoldschool

01-12-09, 04:10 PM

1948GG:
I've felled "one of those trees" on their head.
I think they know about it now. :lol:

1948GG

01-12-09, 08:37 PM

1948GG:
I've felled "one of those trees" on their head.
I think they know about it now. :lol:

Post/response of the year. :hurah:

bighoopla

01-17-09, 07:21 PM

Levels are good.
You kind of have apples and oranges comparing your old receiver [MPEG-2] to your new [MPEG-4] receiver. The signals come from different SATs, & different frequencies [almost twice as high].

As VOS and others have already commented on, your signals from all the sats are just peachy.

Since you were recording the SD (Ku/DBS on sat101) on that UltimateTV box, I gather the game/station on the HD/HR22 (Ka) feed, right?

Because the 'effect' you point out is the dreaded 'BRRRIP' glitch that ALL the Mpeg4/HD channels have been suffering from... well, just about day one.

The number of threads (including at least 2-3 I started) are all over the place. Some of the 'locals' are more sensitive (get it a lot more; the FIRST HD/Ka locals, like poorr Detroit, users were almost drive insane by this problem) than most of the national feeds (like CNN et. al.)

Thanks so much for enlightening me about how everything works.:grin:

Today, I watched about an 45 min. of Running Scared on CinemaxWestHD. I counted 4 times in only 45 min. where the picture 'BRRRIP'ed (stuttering picture w/artifacts and distorted sound).

I know you say this is to be expected, but is that excessive?

I think the HD movie channels like HBO, SHO, Cinemax, etc.) are on sat 110. Is that right?

I noticed my 110 satellite only has 3 working transponders, and one of them is only at 71. Is that enough? Would realignment possibly tune in more transponders, making the 'BRRRIP's happen less frequently?

veryoldschool

01-17-09, 07:37 PM

Thanks so much for enlightening me about how everything works.:grin:

Today, I watched about an 45 min. of Running Scared on CinemaxWestHD. I counted 4 times in only 45 min. where the picture 'BRRRIP'ed (stuttering picture w/artifacts and distorted sound).

I know you say this is to be expected, but is that excessive?

I think the HD movie channels like HBO, SHO, Cinemax, etc.) are on sat 110. Is that right?

I noticed my 110 satellite only has 3 working transponders, and one of them is only at 71. Is that enough? Would realignment possibly tune in more transponders, making the 'BRRRIP's happen less frequently?
The "110 channels" are those in the 70-80s. All of the others are off 99/103 [MPEG-4].
Four times in 45 min, isn't "expected", since none of this should be "normal", but yes, there seems to be more of this, on more channels, than before.

paulman182

01-19-09, 05:49 AM

I don't think I've ever seen the "brrp" on a premium movie channel, and I watch about six movies a week from them.

1948GG

01-19-09, 08:56 AM

I noticed my 110 satellite only has 3 working transponders, and one of them is only at 71. Is that enough? Would realignment possibly tune in more transponders, making the 'BRRRIP's happen less frequently?

As pointed out by VOS, in fact virtually all the HD comes off the Ka sats in Mpeg4 format, DirecTV10/11 (and don't forget the spot-beam Spaceways), at 99/103. The old Ku/DBS Mpeg2/HD channels are on the 110/119 slots, where DirecTV shares orbital licenses with Dish Network.

Those transmissions, as you might have tripped across the billboard and crawl if tuning to them, are slated for shut down in the near future. The space will probably be used for other SD channels, so goes the thinking.

With this last weekends 'free' HBO/Cinemax preview, I watched a boatload of stuff, and have a boatload more recorded up. I didn't see any problems. But I do watch a LOT of HDNetMovies, MGMHD, and others in the HD Pack (I let my movies lapse a LONG time ago, as I don't like paying for service (channels) that DirecTV doesn't transmit, like the 15 or so HD HBO channels that are on my local cable system but not on the sat).

And, it goes through 'phases'. Channels will be plagued by the Brrrrippp for days on end, then all of a sudden go away. I've actually caught what appeared to be DirecTV techs 'rebooting' the Mpeg4 encoder upon occasion when then things was really, and I mean REALLY, hosed.

As VOS commented, that tree has been dropped on them, probably several times. We have large trees up around my neck of the woods, but in N. California, those things are monters. But companies are even more leary than in the past about discussing 'internal' problems with either their customers or in public, especially publicly owned companies.

It's very channel specific. And it affects, now and again, virtually every Mpeg4 channel, both local and national. When it will be fixed, nobody knows.