Next NFL Sunday Ticket Contract

[Proc]

Is D*'s contract for the NFL Sunday Ticket up after this season or next (2010)?

I know they re-negotiated the current agreement well before the last one expired. Any word if this is the case now?

[cb7214]

it expires at the end of the 2009 season, meaning after the end of next season

[Michael D'Angelo]

As far as I know it expires after the 2010 season.

[jimmyv2000]

As far as I know it expires after the 2010 season.

i think you are correct Michael,however Comcrap and Verizon have also express interest in this.
Also Fairpoint Communications is going to start TV service in NH soon and they may have an interest as they will expand their service in ME and VT as well.A friend of mine is testing in Portsmouth now i was over there saturday and i was pretty impressed with the PQ:D

[Ken S]

Michael is correct. There are two more seasons left on the DirecTV/NFL TV deal. It expires after the 2010 season.

[danman71]

My biggest complaint about Sunday ticket is having to pay extra for HD. I ALREADY pay DirecTV extra each month to get HD. I shouldn't have to pay again. I hope that changes in future contracts.

[DCSholtis]

As far as I know it expires after the 2010 season.

That means renegotiations should begin next season along with the other network deals.

[bonscott87]

That means renegotiations should begin next season along with the other network deals.

Yep, most of the network deals all expire at the end of the 2010 season as well. It will make for interesting negotiations all around.

[HDRoberts]

I'm sure the NFL will put it up to bid, and I'm sure DirecTV will win. I'm also sure Charlie will but in a big bid, if only to punch up the price for DirecTV.

[zimm7778]

I think everyone will have access to NFL Sunday Ticket after the next contract.....as long as the cable/sat operators put NFL network where the NFL wants it to be.

[davidatl14]

IMO the cablers will NEVER have NFLST as long as there are OTA Network partners.

In order of the NFL Priorties for ST.

1.Reup with DirecTV
2.FIOS(Still limits access)
3.DISH
4. Kill the Package

The mainstream cablers(Cablevision,Comcast,Time Warner, Cox,Charter and so forth) will never have access to this package other than the Charade of bidding for it.

The NFL doesn't want the ST Package to be available for the masses. It terribly devalues their Network Contracts.

[say-what]

I'd suspect that DirecTV has an exclusive negotiating period/right of first refusal on the package.

[jefbal99]

It wouldn't shock me to see NFL ST available to all providers. DirecTV currently pays a huge premium to make this exclusive, depending on when the economy stabilizes, they might not be able to realistically support a huge cash outlay to the NFL.

I don't think currently that the cable MSOs have the bandwidth to have all the games in HD, but with all digital platforms/1GHz plants in conjunction with Switched Digital Video, they should recover enough Bandwidth to theoretically offer this in a few years.

The NFL could prolly get the same price that DirecTV currently gets from its subs and with it available to a larger fan base, would recover the loss in the huge license fee that DirecTV pays for exclusivity.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but this wouldn't shock me at all.

[skipw]

It doesn't matter how much it costs DTV for the contract. They don't want anyone else to get the service and will pay anything to keep it. And all of you ST fans will keep paying the increased fees every year. I dropped ST 2 seasons ago and I have to say, I really don't miss it. If you get ST, ST with HD and the Super Fan pkg, you have to be paying close to $500 a season. If you're not, you will be soon. Now is the time to push back, before they sign a new contract. When is enough going to be enough? $1000 a season?

[ladannen]

My biggest complaint about Sunday ticket is having to pay extra for HD. I ALREADY pay DirecTV extra each month to get HD. I shouldn't have to pay again. I hope that changes in future contracts.
While I agree that the HD games should be included in the price for Sunday Ticket, is the amount Directv charges the customers even part of the contract with the NFL?
I always assumed Directv pays the NFL for the package, then can charge whatever they want to the customers.

[Steve615]

Here is some interesting reading in regards to ST.

http://www.answers.com/topic/nfl-sunday-ticket

According to that article,the ST contract will expire at the end of the 2010 season.

[fluffybear]

I'd suspect that DirecTV has an exclusive negotiating period/right of first refusal on the package.

I believe you are correct. I also understood that if they do not accept the NFL's price for the new contract that they have right to best any offer on the table.

[DCSholtis]

Yep, most of the network deals all expire at the end of the 2010 season as well. It will make for interesting negotiations all around.

Especially with a possible lockout looming. I forgot about that.

[dodge boy]

I personally hope the D* looses exclusivity of it. If all the carriers have it, the price should come down a bit.

[SDizzle]

I don't see D* letting their grasp on ST go, but I for one hope that others get it too, should help us D* subs get a better price with some competition. To correct a previous poster, this season (for those that didn't get SF for free again) the cost was $249 for auto renew plus $99 for SF (which includes HD games) = $348.....not close to your $500 estimate. However, you may be right that $500 could be realistic at some point if ST stays exclusive to D*.

[lwilli201]

IMO the cablers will NEVER have NFLST as long as there are OTA Network partners.

In order of the NFL Priorties for ST.

1.Reup with DirecTV
2.FIOS(Still limits access)
3.DISH
4. Kill the Package

The mainstream cablers(Cablevision,Comcast,Time Warner, Cox,Charter and so forth) will never have access to this package other than the Charade of bidding for it.

The NFL doesn't want the ST Package to be available for the masses. It terribly devalues their Network Contracts.

Totally agree. Another thing is that Directv pays the NFL a set amount for the privilege. Directv could lose their shirts if they do not get enough subs to pay the NFL. This coming year will show how well SF will fair. The cable companies will want a per subscriber deal and I do not think that the NFL will go for that. The way it is now, the NFL maximizes the revenue they get without the troubles with local station exclusivity.

[DCSholtis]

Totally agree. Another thing is that Directv pays the NFL a set amount for the privilege. Directv could lose their shirts if they do not get enough subs to pay the NFL. This coming year will show how well SF will fair. The cable companies will want a per subscriber deal and I do not think that the NFL will go for that. The way it is now, the NFL maximizes the revenue they get without the troubles with local station exclusivity.

+1. I do hope D* retains its exclusivity with ST.

[Araxen]

Whatever drives the price of ST down I'm all for. I hope it gets opened up to all the cable carriers. I'm sick of seeing it go up $20 every year.

[bnwrx]

It doesn't matter how much it costs DTV for the contract. They don't want anyone else to get the service and will pay anything to keep it. And all of you ST fans will keep paying the increased fees every year. I dropped ST 2 seasons ago and I have to say, I really don't miss it. If you get ST, ST with HD and the Super Fan pkg, you have to be paying close to $500 a season. If you're not, you will be soon. Now is the time to push back, before they sign a new contract. When is enough going to be enough? $1000 a season?

I too canceled, but then resigned when they offered a better deal. My bottom line price $129. thats $249 for ST, $10 a month credit for 12 months and they thru in SF for free. I read on these forums this was a common deal, so your $500 a season statement is a bit high.

[evan_s]

I think the NFL is happy with things the way they are and DirecTV likes it's sports so I don't see it changing. The NFL still seems to see the bulk of it's money from the TV airings coming from the major network contracts and I don't see that changing.

I do believe that the NFL wants the Sunday ticket package to be available everywhere but i don't think they want it to be commonly available at the same time. This preserves their network contract value but does allow those who really want it to get sunday ticket and the sat companies provide this perfectly. If you accept that DirecTV seems like the only realistic candidate. One thing I think a lot of people are forgetting is the commercial side of things. I can't imagine how many pissed of people there would be if all of a sudden sports bars couldn't get the sunday ticket package because it was only available on Verizon or select cable companies.

[FLWingNut]

Competition won't help. NHL CI, NBA LP are the same on all providers.

[RACJ2]

Competition won't help. NHL CI, NBA LP are the same on all providers.While the price may be the same across all providers for these packages, the price is much lower. For example, NHLCI with HD is only $169, which is much less then NFLST + HD at $348 or more. If NFLST was available thru more providers to more subscribers, the price probably would drop.

[bonscott87]

While the price may be the same across all providers for these packages, the price is much lower. For example, NHLCI with HD is only $169, which is much less then NFLST + HD at $348 or more. If NFLST was available thru more providers to more subscribers, the price probably would drop.

No it wouldn't. MLB Extra Innings isn't all that much cheaper then Sunday Ticket and it's on all providers except Dish. It's failed thinking to think the price would go down if it's on all providers. They will all happily charge the same high price. At best it might cause a "freeze" in price for one year and then it would go back to $20 a year increase, just like all the other packages go up 10 to 20 bucks a year as well. NHL is so "cheap" because there are so few subscribers.

[rcoleman111]

The NFL doesn't want the ST Package to be available for the masses. It terribly devalues their Network Contracts.

Simply not true. This absurd claim has been debunked any number of times. There is not a shred of truth to it. The network packages have only gone steadily up in price in the years that Sunday Ticket has been available. It does not devalue the network contracts in any way, shape, or form.

[rcoleman111]

No it wouldn't. MLB Extra Innings isn't all that much cheaper then Sunday Ticket and it's on all providers except Dish. It's failed thinking to think the price would go down if it's on all providers. They will all happily charge the same high price. At best it might cause a "freeze" in price for one year and then it would go back to $20 a year increase, just like all the other packages go up 10 to 20 bucks a year as well. NHL is so "cheap" because there are so few subscribers.

It is simply not true that MLB EI isn't all that much cheaper than Sunday Ticket. No matter how many times you come back and post this nonsense, it still won't be true. Extra Innings is significantly cheaper - about half of what Sunday Ticket costs. I debunked this baloney the last time you posted in and I'll be happy to debunk it again. If you want to make yourself believe the exclusive contract for Sunday Ticket doesn't make it more expensive, go right ahead. Most of us know better than that. What you're posting is same as it was the last time you posted it - a bunch of baloney.

[joed32]

They charge what the market will bear. NFL fans are willing to pay more for Sunday Ticket than MLB fans are willing to pay for EI. There are a lot more of them as well.

[joshjr]

Here is some interesting reading in regards to ST.

http://www.answers.com/topic/nfl-sunday-ticket

According to that article,the ST contract will expire at the end of the 2010 season.

This article is very interesting. I understand why the NFL would do it this way and also remember, one reason cable also nevers gets the rights is that they dont want to have to carry NFL Network and its a package deal with Sunday Ticket. Here is a clip from the link above.

The NFL has indicated that one reason they accepted DirecTV's bid was to limit the availability of the product so that the television networks and local stations would be protected.[citation needed] In particular, Sunday Ticket viewers do not count towards local Nielsen Ratings, thus offering Sunday Ticket on cable might cost CBS and FOX affiliates millions of dollars in lost revenue from local commercial breaks (as opposed to national ads sold by the networks).

[davidatl14]

Simply not true. This absurd claim has been debunked any number of times. There is not a shred of truth to it. The network packages have only gone steadily up in price in the years that Sunday Ticket has been available. It does not devalue the network contracts in any way, shape, or form.




Agreed!

NFL ST is not devaluing to the OTA Network partners in it's current form on DirecTV and available to a small number of subs. Maybe I didn't make my point cogently.If that is your point then we both agree.

If your point is that the OTA partners will still pony up increasing fees with ST available to the masses via cable then you couldn't be more wrong.

What will devalue the OTA package is having the mainstream cablers having access.

I've listened to the lame argument since the inception of ST that the cablers will have it and thus the NFL wants it's product everywhere.

It hasn't happened yet and never will. Mainstrean cable will NEVER have access to NFL ST, except for the charade of bidding on the package.

[bonscott87]

It is simply not true that MLB EI isn't all that much cheaper than Sunday Ticket. No matter how many times you come back and post this nonsense, it still won't be true. Extra Innings is significantly cheaper - about half of what Sunday Ticket costs. I debunked this baloney the last time you posted in and I'll be happy to debunk it again. If you want to make yourself believe the exclusive contract for Sunday Ticket doesn't make it more expensive, go right ahead. Most of us know better than that. What you're posting is same as it was the last time you posted it - a bunch of baloney.

Dude. Last year Extra Innings was $199 (regular price). Sunday Ticket $279 (regular price). Not that huge of a diff. Sunday Ticket has what, quadruple the number of subs as Extra Inning in total including cable. Thus it's much more popular and thus they can charge more for it. Just like how Extra Innings is more expensive then League Pass for Center Ice, because it's more popular. ST and EI charge for HD because they can. LP And CI they can't because they aren't popular enough. It's a rather simple to understand pricing structure.

If you live in a fantasy world where you think the price of ST will go *down* because all providers have it then that's a world that I want to live in. My prediction if everyone has ST is that prices may stay the same that first year, then will continue on up at $10 to $20 a year just like all the packages which are available on cable. Again, it's rather a simple concept.

Personally I hope cable gets it along with DirecTV, only gives me more options should I choose to leave. But I just don't fool myself into thinking it would save me money.

[bonscott87]

Simply not true. This absurd claim has been debunked any number of times. There is not a shred of truth to it. The network packages have only gone steadily up in price in the years that Sunday Ticket has been available. It does not devalue the network contracts in any way, shape, or form.

Tell that to the affiliates who were crying up a huge storm the last time cable had a shot at getting Sunday Ticket and continue to cry about ST eroding their ratings.

[dcowboy7]

also when the next nfl cba is negotiated they might add 2 more games to make it an 18 game / 19 week season....thats 2 more weeks of football to add to the price as well.

[ricochet]

If you live in a fantasy world where you think the price of ST will go *down* because all providers have it then that's a world that I want to live in. My prediction if everyone has ST is that prices may stay the same that first year, then will continue on up at $10 to $20 a year just like all the packages which are available on cable. Again, it's rather a simple concept.


Must be the same fantasy world where people think when providers stop making HD a line item charge that their bills will go down.

The ST price could go up (maybe way up) if ST is offered everywhere. I think the NFL has an idea of how many subscribers it wants and if you open up the pool of potential subscribers the only way to keep it limited is to increase the price. At $500 DirecTV would certainly lose a bunch of subscribers but there are probably more enough new cable customers willing to pay that to make up the difference. To keep the subscriber number the same they might have to go even higher.

[rcoleman111]

Dude. Last year Extra Innings was $199 (regular price). Sunday Ticket $279 (regular price). Not that huge of a diff. Sunday Ticket has what, quadruple the number of subs as Extra Inning in total including cable. Thus it's much more popular and thus they can charge more for it. Just like how Extra Innings is more expensive then League Pass for Center Ice, because it's more popular. ST and EI charge for HD because they can. LP And CI they can't because they aren't popular enough. It's a rather simple to understand pricing structure.

If you live in a fantasy world where you think the price of ST will go *down* because all providers have it then that's a world that I want to live in. My prediction if everyone has ST is that prices may stay the same that first year, then will continue on up at $10 to $20 a year just like all the packages which are available on cable. Again, it's rather a simple concept.

Personally I hope cable gets it along with DirecTV, only gives me more options should I choose to leave. But I just don't fool myself into thinking it would save me money.

The only one living in a fantasy world is you, dude, if you think you're not paying more for that exclusive contract. The early-bird price was $159 for EI on most cable systems last year, same as the year before. That's the price most subscribers are going to pay, not the list price. Add the $99 Superfan to the $279 subscription price for Sunday Ticket and it's roughly twice the price. That's twice the price for two packages that cost about the same a few years ago. And the price of EI certainly isn't going up by $20 a year like Sunday Ticket. These prices have been posted here before, but don't let the facts get in the way of what you really want to believe.

You posted this same baloney a few months ago. When confronted with the facts, you ran off with your tail between your legs. So you wait a few months and come back and post the same nonsense all over again, as if nobody is going to remember. Baloney is baloney, and know that you will be called on it every single time.

[rcoleman111]

Tell that to the affiliates who were crying up a huge storm the last time cable had a shot at getting Sunday Ticket and continue to cry about ST eroding their ratings.

The affiliates don't pay for the NFL packages, the networks do. In the the years the Sunday Ticket package has been available, the network contracts have only gone up in price, not down. That certainly doesn't jibe with the theory that Sunday Ticket reduces the value of network contracts. But again, don't let facts stand in your way.

[rcoleman111]

Agreed!

NFL ST is not devaluing to the OTA Network partners in it's current form on DirecTV and available to a small number of subs. Maybe I didn't make my point cogently.If that is your point then we both agree.

If your point is that the OTA partners will still pony up increasing fees with ST available to the masses via cable then you couldn't be more wrong.

What will devalue the OTA package is having the mainstream cablers having access.

I've listened to the lame argument since the inception of ST that the cablers will have it and thus the NFL wants it's product everywhere.

It hasn't happened yet and never will. Mainstrean cable will NEVER have access to NFL ST, except for the charade of bidding on the package.

And again, simply not true. The NFL's purpose in offering the package is to make as money from it as possible, which means having as many subscribers paying for it as possible. And if you want proof of that, simply look at the DirecTV contract for 2003-2007. It called for the deal to go non-exclusive after the 2005 season. There is only reason the NFL would negotiate that deal - they wanted the deal to go non-exclusive so they could sell it to cable as well as satellite. The only reason it stayed exclusive is that DirecTV offer to nearly double the rights fee to keep it exclusive. Who do you think is paying for that?

[davidatl14]

Fact still remains that cable doesn't have a piece of ST. NFL doesn't want them to have a piece of NFLST (IMO).

They may want the Cabler's to think they have a shot, but so far the answer is no. If the NFL wanted the deal to be non exclusive as you contend then why was there nothing in the current contract that runs through 2010 stating that. As for the 2003-2007 contract my guess would be that the out would coincide with the NFL trying to get their own Network picked up by as many outlets as possible and having leverage in that area.

More than likely a ploy to keep the always grandstanding pols like Kerry and Specter from their shameless demagougery of supposedly standing up for the "little man"

When they(Cablers) broadcast the first game of NFLST on their distribution platforms, then get back to me with something more than your suppositions.

[Satelliteracer]

Whatever drives the price of ST down I'm all for. I hope it gets opened up to all the cable carriers. I'm sick of seeing it go up $20 every year.

Quick question.....has the price gone down for NBA, NHL despite everyone carrying it? How about MLB in which everyone but DISH carries?

[bonscott87]

The only one living in a fantasy world is you, dude, if you think you're not paying more for that exclusive contract. The early-bird price was $159 for EI on most cable systems last year, same as the year before. That's the price most subscribers are going to pay, not the list price. Add the $99 Superfan to the $279 subscription price for Sunday Ticket and it's roughly twice the price. That's twice the price for two packages that cost about the same a few years ago. And the price of EI certainly isn't going up by $20 a year like Sunday Ticket. These prices have been posted here before, but don't let the facts get in the way of what you really want to believe.

You posted this same baloney a few months ago. When confronted with the facts, you ran off with your tail between your legs. So you wait a few months and come back and post the same nonsense all over again, as if nobody is going to remember. Baloney is baloney, and know that you will be called on it every single time.

No, I gave up on you after I posted facts from the various cable companies showing what their regular prices were and you chose to ignore it. Just like DirecTV the early bird is gone once the season starts and you pay full price. But you seem to want to ignore that fact. I don't care what their "early bird" price is. Compare apples to apples. If you want early bird EI then compare it to early bird ST. EI also has a Superfan on DirecTV if you want to compare that SF price. Again, compare it apples to apples. EI $199 plus $50 SF = $250. ST $279 plus $100 SF equals $379. EI is hardly half the cost of ST.

Of course Sunday Ticket is more expensive. But because it's 4 times more popular and they can charge that much more. It's simple math and capitalism. You've debunked nothing in anyone's eyes other then your own.

[dodge boy]

They charge what the market will bear. NFL fans are willing to pay more for Sunday Ticket than MLB fans are willing to pay for EI. There are a lot more of them as well.

They just gouge everyone every year, they know there are suckers who will pay their rediculous price for this. If people were smart, all their ST subs would drop it this year, tell 'em to stick their free SF and refuse to re up until it drops $100.00 a year, but people just are not that smart, or loyal to "a cause". The consumer has the power to make or brake the market, until they realize that they will continue to take "it" in the "Free Market System".

[bonscott87]

The affiliates don't pay for the NFL packages, the networks do. In the the years the Sunday Ticket package has been available, the network contracts have only gone up in price, not down. That certainly doesn't jibe with the theory that Sunday Ticket reduces the value of network contracts. But again, don't let facts stand in your way.

LOL.

Yea, the fact is that the network affiliates put up a huge stink when cable had a shot at Sunday Ticket back the last time it was for bid (around 2003) and stated that they probably wouldn't pay as much for their NFL contracts if cable got it. And links were provided the last time you came out of the woodwork with your bunk. And it's the affiliates who have forced the blackouts of games that they carry in market. You think DirecTV blacks out games for the fun of it? Affiliates force it because they fear for their ratings. They don't want ST to eat into their market share more then it already has. ST reduces the value of the networks contracts for sure *if* it's suddenly available on cable and 10 million people subscribe. Again, it's very simple math and backed up with news articles about affiliate concerns. I'm not going to dig them up again for you since you obviously ignore facts when presented to you. Yea, lets not let facts get in the way of a good argument. ;)

[bonscott87]

They just gouge everyone every year, they know there are suckers who will pay their rediculous price for this. If people were smart, all their ST subs would drop it this year, tell 'em to stick their free SF and refuse to re up until it drops $100.00 a year, but people just are not that smart, or loyal to "a cause". The consumer has the power to make or brake the market, until they realize that they will continue to take "it" in the "Free Market System".

You are exactly correct. Just like all prices it will only keep going up and will only keep being "expensive" if people will keep paying for it. If people stop paying for it then prices go down or rise slower. All the sports packages go up $10 to $20 a year. Sunday Ticket has *always* been more expensive, being the most popular sport by far. Nothing will change with that dynamic no matter who has Sunday Ticket until people stop subscribing to it. With the economy in the tank this may be a good year to test that and see where the sub numbers go. If the sub number remain steady around 2 to 2 and a half million despite the economy then the NFL will be smiling come contract renewal time with everyone.

[dcowboy7]

They just gouge everyone every year, they know there are suckers who will pay their rediculous price for this.

1. most bars, restaurants, clubs will still pay for it.
2. maybe if u werent so lousy on your fantasy football u could win $$ on it to pay for the sunday ticket.

[DCSholtis]

1. most bars, restaurants, clubs will still pay for it.
2. maybe if u werent so lousy on your fantasy football u could win $$ on it to pay for the sunday ticket.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Tom Robertson]

The last time there was a (slim) chance for cable to bid, they signaled very clearly they weren't going to bid. Too much money.

Does the NFL prefer an exclusive contract? Possibly. I don't really know.

Does DIRECTV prefer an exclusive? I sure bet they do.

If everyone carried NFL, would it go down? Yeah, right. The answer was given by someone who we know could know. Read between the lines. It would not drop, just the NFL would have more companies paying very large checks for it.

Is there any provider other than DIRECTV or C/Ku band that could easily handle the HD load? Dish might. Most cable systems really couldn't for a few more years. (Perhaps in time for the next negotiation?)

Who has worked with the NFL to really develop the product? DIRECTV. Together they have managed a fantastic product.

Would I like to pay more? Well, actually in a sense yes. If NFL would approve a "One Team" option and a "Single Division" option, I'd spend more and buy a couple "One teams" and a "Single Division" for myself. Net more for NFL. And appropriate more value (in my mind) for me. :)

Cheers,
Tom

[hasan]

It doesn't matter how much it costs DTV for the contract. They don't want anyone else to get the service and will pay anything to keep it. And all of you ST fans will keep paying the increased fees every year. I dropped ST 2 seasons ago and I have to say, I really don't miss it. If you get ST, ST with HD and the Super Fan pkg, you have to be paying close to $500 a season. If you're not, you will be soon. Now is the time to push back, before they sign a new contract. When is enough going to be enough? $1000 a season?

I canceled this year, after having NFL-ST since the BUD days. I didn't miss it. I recorded enough games OTA, NFL Network and ESPN to take care of my NFL jones. I doubt I'll ever sign up again, unless it becomes dirt cheap, like the first time I got it at 99 bucks.:)

[joshjr]

The affiliates don't pay for the NFL packages, the networks do. In the the years the Sunday Ticket package has been available, the network contracts have only gone up in price, not down. That certainly doesn't jibe with the theory that Sunday Ticket reduces the value of network contracts. But again, don't let facts stand in your way.

You are wrong affiliates do pay for the NFL games. I know this for a fact. I spoke to the GM of the CBS affiliate here and they have to pay weekly but are also able to pick the game they want to air here in my area. Now that money may go to the CBS headquarters but either way the affiliates do pay for them. Also I was reading that people who subscribe to ST dont count in the ratings and if cable was to get Sunday Ticket then their viewing numbers would decline dramatically since the viewer ratings would not count from ST subscribers.

Cable would rather have the advertisers money then to really get the rights to Sunday Ticket. Also its not just as simple as that either. The cable co's seem to be not interested in getting NFL Network as well. If I was the NFL I would not want to lower my products worth to a network by making their revenue lower and also I would not want to limit the fans of the sport to missing games on NFL Network because cable is to cheap to carry it.

With all that said and Cable not being able to show all the games in HD right now I really dont think Sunday Ticket on Cable is the right choice for now.

[kevinwmsn]

DirectTV needs to come off the $100 extra for Superfan just for HD Games. We already pay for the HD Access fee. If they want to recoup money for another package to get the HD Redzone, HD Mix, player tracker, etc fine, just not for having the game in HD. How about more packages like Tom's suggestion - teams, divisions, conference?

[rcoleman111]

Fact still remains that cable doesn't have a piece of ST. NFL doesn't want them to have a piece of NFLST (IMO).

They may want the Cabler's to think they have a shot, but so far the answer is no. If the NFL wanted the deal to be non exclusive as you contend then why was there nothing in the current contract that runs through 2010 stating that. As for the 2003-2007 contract my guess would be that the out would coincide with the NFL trying to get their own Network picked up by as many outlets as possible and having leverage in that area.

More than likely a ploy to keep the always grandstanding pols like Kerry and Specter from their shameless demagougery of supposedly standing up for the "little man"

When they(Cablers) broadcast the first game of NFLST on their distribution platforms, then get back to me with something more than your suppositions.

And again, simply not true. The facts are the facts. The contract for 2003-2007 called for non-exclusive rights after the 2005 season. That's because the NFL wanted the deal to go non-exclusive. It stayed exclusive because DirecTV offered to nearly double the rights fee to keep cable out. Those are facts, not a suppositions.

As for the "grandstanding pols", what an idiotic comment. If it weren't for those politicians, the NFL would still be blacking out home games and you wouldn't be able to watch even your local team when the games are sold out. You free marketeers are the reason this country is in the mess it's in today.

[Tom Robertson]

<Moderator hat is ON>
Remember, aside from mentioning the basic news that a particular politician has made a statement, please refrain from all political commentary.

And please do not discuss each other or insult each other.

Thank you.
Tom Robertson

[rcoleman111]

You are wrong affiliates do pay for the NFL games. I know this for a fact. I spoke to the GM of the CBS affiliate here and they have to pay weekly but are also able to pick the game they want to air here in my area. Now that money may go to the CBS headquarters but either way the affiliates do pay for them. Also I was reading that people who subscribe to ST dont count in the ratings and if cable was to get Sunday Ticket then their viewing numbers would decline dramatically since the viewer ratings would not count from ST subscribers.


The network contracts are negotiated and paid for by the networks. The value to the networks is in the advertising they can sell. The network advertising is the same whether you watch the games on Sunday Ticket or on the local channel. It's only the local stations that lose if you watch Sunday Ticket, and that's assuming you would have been watching the game on the local station if you didn't have Sunday Ticket.

[Tom Robertson]

Because the NFL and DIRECTV both allowed a contract with an out to potentially become exclusive, does not imply a want. They both want money, the how is far less important (so long as within their corporate value systems.)

And the NFL ended up wanting that money that DIRECTV wanted to make via an exclusive contract. Unless you talk to the people involved, in some fashion that reasonably assures you that you are able to be given the truth, making any assumptions is very dangerous.

For instance the NFL could have made it a ploy and never, ever wanted a non-exclusive deal. Or DIRECTV might have used it as a ploy to keep the costs down until they found away to fund the program thru now.

Heck, cable companies might have paid the NFL to let it be non-exclusive for the last few years so they could try to build a consortium to bid on it. (Don't think so, that likely would have been reported somewhere.)

Very likely, discussions of a sort are already underway. I know I'd talk to my partner after the season (during even) to discuss improvements to the package. Planning ways to improve marketing/postitioning. Reviewing the latest numbers, latest surveys, etc. In other words, how to make more money. :)

Peace,
Tom

[rcoleman111]

No, I gave up on you after I posted facts from the various cable companies showing what their regular prices were and you chose to ignore it. Just like DirecTV the early bird is gone once the season starts and you pay full price. But you seem to want to ignore that fact. I don't care what their "early bird" price is. Compare apples to apples. If you want early bird EI then compare it to early bird ST. EI also has a Superfan on DirecTV if you want to compare that SF price. Again, compare it apples to apples. EI $199 plus $50 SF = $250. ST $279 plus $100 SF equals $379. EI is hardly half the cost of ST.

Of course Sunday Ticket is more expensive. But because it's 4 times more popular and they can charge that much more. It's simple math and capitalism. You've debunked nothing in anyone's eyes other then your own.

How many people do you suppose are going to wait and pay the list price instead of the so-called "early-bird" price ("Gee, I think I'll wait 'til next week when the price goes up so can pay $199 instead of $159"). I posted the prices as well, but you simply ignored it, comparing the "early-bird" price for ST to the regular price for EI. To my knowledge, there isn't any Superfan package required by Comcast to watch the games in HD. That's another DirecTV exclusive - the Superfan package. You pay the $159 subscription price for EI, compared to about $350 for Sunday Ticket plus Superfan. I suppose that doesn't seem like much of a difference to someone who is living in a fool's paradise.

As far as football being 4 times more popular that baseball, that wouldn't exactly account for why they were priced the same a few years ago, would it? Or why ST goes up $20 a year while EI stays the same (maybe football is gaining in popularity at 4 times the rate of baseball?). Again, don't let the facts stand in the way of what you really want to believe. Keep the baloney coming - I had a lot of fun debunking it the last time around and I can have just as much fun this time.

[Satelliteracer]

Very likely, discussions of a sort are already underway. I know I'd talk to my partner after the season (during even) to discuss improvements to the package. Planning ways to improve marketing/postitioning. Reviewing the latest numbers, latest surveys, etc.

Peace,
Tom


;)


All I can say after reading this thread is that there are many incorrect statements about the networks, affiliates, exclusivity, etc. It will all play out and Tom, yes I think you may just be dead on correct.

[joshjr]

How many people do you suppose are going to wait and pay the list price instead of the so-called "early-bird" price ("Gee, I think I'll wait 'til next week when the price goes up so can pay $199 instead of $159"). You pay the $159 subscription price for EI, compared to about $350 for Sunday Ticket plus Superfan. I suppose that doesn't seem like much of a difference to someone who is living in a fool's paradise.

Its not a matter of people waiting. They are offering an early offer of 10 monthly payments right now that people are jumping all over that are more then the early bird price will be. So its not a matter of people waiting and then also D* has alot of new customers each yeat just for Sunday Ticket that wont all get the early bird offer either after the seasosn starts. Not sure what you are stating on the $350 for Sunday Ticket plus SuperFan. $350 covers Sunday Ticket and Superfan. The cable co here has EI for $199 and it says up to 10 games in HD a week. So if you want to see half of your games in SD then you can just be happy with $199 I guess.

[rcoleman111]

Because the NFL and DIRECTV both allowed a contract with an out to potentially become exclusive, does not imply a want. They both want money, the how is far less important (so long as within their corporate value systems.)

Peace,
Tom

Tom, it's certainly possible they were trying to hold down the cost of the contract, but the NFL had to at least be willing to see the deal go non-exclusive or they wouldn't have made the deal. We know DirecTV has always wanted the deal to stay exclusive, which is why they were willing to pay big money to keep it that way. If you go back and do some research on the history of the Sunday Ticket package (I've posted some of it in the past), the NFL has always maintained that they wanted the package to be available to as many subscribers as possible, which is what makes it worth a lot of money. The idea that they would offer and out-of-market package with the intention of having as few people subscribe as possible is really just kind of silly.

Sorry if I got a little testy in my previous post, but keep in mind I didn't start the discussion about politics. I was just replying to what the previous poster said and pointing out that it doesn't alway have negative effects when politicians get involved. Also, when someone starts a post by calling me "dude", I tend to react in a negative way.

[Tom Robertson]

...Sorry if I got a little testy in my previous post, but keep in mind I didn't start the discussion about politics. I was just replying to what the previous poster said and pointing out that it doesn't alway have negative effects when politicians get involved. Also, when someone starts a post by calling me "dude", I tend to react in a negative way.

<Mod hat>
No worries. Wasn't aimed particularly or solely at you. Just tryin' to steer the conversation a bit. :)

</Mod hat>

Cheers,
Tom

[rcoleman111]

Its not a matter of people waiting. They are offering an early offer of 10 monthly payments right now that people are jumping all over that are more then the early bird price will be. So its not a matter of people waiting and then also D* has alot of new customers each yeat just for Sunday Ticket that wont all get the early bird offer either after the seasosn starts. Not sure what you are stating on the $350 for Sunday Ticket plus SuperFan. $350 covers Sunday Ticket and Superfan. The cable co here has EI for $199 and it says up to 10 games in HD a week. So if you want to see half of your games in SD then you can just be happy with $199 I guess.


If I wanted to buy EI, I could do so for $159. It has been the same price the last two years. It wouldn't make any sense for me to wait until that price expired and pay $199 instead. I haven't checked to see how many games are in HD in this area with Comcast (probably not as many as DirecTV offers), but I know a lot of them are HD and you don't need Superfan to get the HD games. So it's $159 for EI compared to $350 for Sunday Ticket and Superfan. That's a big difference no matter how you slice it.

[Tom Robertson]

If I wanted to buy EI, I could do so for $159. It has been the same price the last two years. It wouldn't make any sense for me to wait until that price expired and pay $199 instead. I haven't checked to see how many games are in HD in this area with Comcast (probably not as many as DirecTV offers), but I know a lot of them are HD and you don't need Superfan to get the HD games. So it's $159 for EI compared to $350 for Sunday Ticket and Superfan. That's a big difference no matter how you slice it.

Do you have any comparison data as to the television contracts for MLB as compared to the huge $$ for the NFL? That might be a better comparison point than what the NFL gets for NFL/ST vs. what it might be should cable get it.

Cheers,
Tom

[rcoleman111]

;)


All I can say after reading this thread is that there are many incorrect statements about the networks, affiliates, exclusivity, etc. It will all play out and Tom, yes I think you may just be dead on correct.

Satelliteracer, I hope the folks DirecTV realize how fed up some of us are getting. I originally signed up for DirecTV specifically because of the Sunday Ticket package, but the year-after-year $20 increases plus the absurd SuperFan fee have made it so exorbitant that I'm about ready to dump it, and DirecTV with it. It seems pretty clear that DirecTV is willing to pay just about any price to keep the deal exclusive and will gouge subscribers with these repeated $20 price hikes, knowing they can't get the package elsewhere. It's time for either the NFL to take the package away from them or for Congress to outlaw these exclusive deals.

There are a lot of us who also don't appreciate the fact that while we pay these fees like Superfan, anyone who wants something for nothing can get it by just calling in repeatedly until one of the CSRs give them a credit. It really isn't any way to treat paying customers. I hope DirecTV also realizes that most of what I pay roughly $125 a month for I could get for the price of an OTA attena and a $20 Netflix subscription. For that matter, I could get a video feed of an out-of-market NFL game for a lot less than DirecTV is charging. So keep treating customers this way and DirecTV will get exactly what it deserves - subscribers leaving it in droves.

[inkahauts]

If Directv keeps it exclusive, or if Verizon gets a piece of it with Directv.. rates will probably only increase at the rate they have been so far..

If Everyone gets in on it.. Rates will really sky rocket. I'm guessing double, at least.. The NFL does NOT want to make all the networks mad by making it too easy for everyone to afford....

[rcoleman111]

Do you have any comparison data as to the television contracts for MLB as compared to the huge $$ for the NFL? That might be a better comparison point than what the NFL gets for NFL/ST vs. what it might be should cable get it.

Cheers,
Tom

Tom, I don't have any hard data on that. I do believe the NFL thought it could get a lot more revenue out of Sunday Ticket if they could sell it to cable as well as satellite. Since DirecTV has only a fraction of the total number of potential subscribers to the package, it should be worth a lot more on a non-exclusive basis.

Nobody knows for sure what the pricing would be like for a non-exclusive deal, but it does seem pretty clear that these $20 year-over-year price hikes plus the Superfan charge are DirecTV's way of recouping the enormous rights fee it pays for that exclusive deal. Remember, the reason Sunday Ticket was exclusive to begin with is that cable didn't have the capacity to carry it at the time. When Sunday Ticket first became available in 1994, I was on a 35-channel cable system that couldn't have carried it if it wanted to. It was also offered on C-band at the time.

When I first signed up for Sunday Ticket at $199 in 2003, it seemed like a bargain. Now the price has gotten so high that I'm about ready to just chuck it and switch my allegiance to the local market team, where I wouldn't have to put up with any of this nonsense. I could save myself a lot of money that way and not have to fuss with that Superfan nonsense any longer.

[joshjr]

Tom, I don't have any hard data on that. I do believe the NFL thought it could get a lot more revenue out of Sunday Ticket if they could sell it to cable as well as satellite. Since DirecTV has only a fraction of the total number of potential subscribers to the package, it should be worth a lot more on a non-exclusive basis.

Nobody knows for sure what the pricing would be like for a non-exclusive deal, but it does seem pretty clear that these $20 year-over-year price hikes plus the Superfan charge are DirecTV's way of recouping the enormous rights fee it pays for that exclusive deal. Remember, the reason Sunday Ticket was exclusive to begin with is that cable didn't have the capacity to carry it at the time. When Sunday Ticket first became available in 1994, I was on a 35-channel cable system that couldn't have carried it if it wanted to. It was also offered on C-band at the time.

When I first signed up for Sunday Ticket at $199 in 2003, it seemed like a bargain. Now the price has gotten so high that I'm about ready to just chuck it and switch my allegiance to the local market team, where I wouldn't have to put up with any of this nonsense. I could save myself a lot of money that way and not have to fuss with that Superfan nonsense any longer.
If you paid $199 in 2003 then it has only went up $50 in 5 years so $10 a year is to much for you to come up with? So dont get SuperFan if you dont want it or call in and get it free if you do. I understand that is not really a good way of doing business. You either decide to pay it and keep the package you love or drop it and move on. I for one and keeping it and SuperFan next year. I will get the early bird offer and try to get SuperFan free if I can but if not I will pay for it.

[rcoleman111]

;)

All I can say after reading this thread is that there are many incorrect statements about the networks, affiliates, exclusivity, etc. It will all play out and Tom, yes I think you may just be dead on correct.

Such as...? If you're claiming I've said anything that is incorrect, please provide the specifics instead of posting this kind of cryptic nonsense. What I've stated is based on publicly available information and is 100% factual. If you're referring to the fact that affililiates have to pay some money for the NFL games, I'm well aware of that. It has nothing to do with the fact that the contracts are bid on and paid for by the networks, not the affiliates. The value of the contracts is in the advertising the networks can sell, and not the ratings of the local stations. The fact you work for DirecTV doesn't make you any more knowledgeable about these issues.

DirecTV won't even publicly disclose how many subscribers they have for Sunday Ticket, but it's a good bet the number is declining as a result of the repeated price hikes. What was once a bargain is now a ridiculously priced extravagance. If they keep treating paying customers the way they have been, they are going to get exactly what they deserve - massive loss of subscribers to other carriers. I've just about had it with DirecTV, their crummy service, and their high prices. If they want to price Sunday Ticket so high that it isn't worth it to me, then I don't need DirecTV at all. I can get most of what DirecTV offers at little or no cost and I will do so if they don't clean up their act.

As to how it "plays out", I think most of us have a pretty good idea. They will continue to pay whatever it takes to keep the package exclusive and they will keep raising the price to pay for it until it reaches the point that most of us just won't pay it any longer. Screw DirecTV and their pathetic service.

[paulman182]

The value of the contracts is in the advertising the networks can sell, and not the ratings of the local stations. The fact you work for DirecTV doesn't make you any more knowledgeable about these issues.



And network advertising rates are based on the aggregate ratings of the local stations. Or are you saying that games watched thru Sunday Ticket are counted toward network ratings? Because I've never seen anything indicating that is the case.

[rcoleman111]

If you paid $199 in 2003 then it has only went up $50 in 5 years so $10 a year is to much for you to come up with? So dont get SuperFan if you dont want it or call in and get it free if you do. I understand that is not really a good way of doing business. You either decide to pay it and keep the package you love or drop it and move on. I for one and keeping it and SuperFan next year. I will get the early bird offer and try to get SuperFan free if I can but if not I will pay for it.

So if I don't like it, I shouldn't buy it? [Mod edit: Inappropriate comment removed.]

As far as what I can or can't come up with, I can afford to buy just about any programming I want, which is why I've carried DirecTV's top programming tier since I've had the service. I paid $199 for Sunday Ticket in 2003. I paid $350 this past season, just 5 seasons later. That's a lot more than $50 - that's a near doubling of the price in just 5 years. As far as not taking the Superfan and watching the games in HD, the PQ is so bad I wouldn't waste my time watching them when there are plenty of free HD games on OTA TV every Sunday. I didn't buy an HDTV to watch football in SD.

And no, it isn't a good way to do business. Charging one person $99 while another calls in and gets it free is actually a pretty lousy way to treat longtime customers. Why should I spend my time making repeated phone calls until I get a CSR who gives me the same deal others are getting?

I have a better idea for how I'll handle it this year - I'm going to send them an e-mail offer. They can either offer me the same deal others are getting on the Superfan or they can cancel out the package and I'll keep my money. $279 or $0 - their choice. They can keep the Sunday Ticket and I'll watch free OTA TV instead. We have a good team here in Atlanta now, so maybe I'll just forget about the out-of-market games. And who knows? Without Sunday Ticket, there isn't a whole lot of reason I need DirecTV.

[rcoleman111]

And network advertising rates are based on the aggregate ratings of the local stations. Or are you saying that games watched thru Sunday Ticket are counted toward network ratings? Because I've never seen anything indicating that is the case.

To my knowledge, the ratings do take into account people watching the Sunday Ticket feeds. Ratings are measured for all channels, not just the network affiliates. Eyeballs are eyeballs, whether they are watching the CBS feed on a local station or one of the Sunday Ticket channels. Advertisers care how many people are watching their commercials, not what channels they are watching on.

[paulman182]

To my knowledge, the ratings do take into account people watching the Sunday Ticket feeds. Ratings are measured for all channels, not just the network affiliates. Eyeballs are eyeballs, whether they are watching the CBS feed on a local station or one of the Sunday Ticket channels. Advertisers care how many people are watching their commercials, not what channels they are watching on.

The problem is that there is no "channel" to report that you are watching. Diary reports of a Sunday Ticket broadcast would probably go under "other" and not count for any channel. Last I knew, the ratings companies had no real provision for this sort of thing.

[joshjr]

The problem is that there is no "channel" to report that you are watching. Diary reports of a Sunday Ticket broadcast would probably go under "other" and not count for any channel. Last I knew, the ratings companies had no real provision for this sort of thing.

I posted earlier an article that said Sunday Ticket subs are not counted in the ratings and that is one reason the NFL does not want Cable co's to have it cause if the ratings dont count then their (cable companies) ad revenue will go way down.

[joed32]

Tom, I don't have any hard data on that. I do believe the NFL thought it could get a lot more revenue out of Sunday Ticket if they could sell it to cable as well as satellite. Since DirecTV has only a fraction of the total number of potential subscribers to the package, it should be worth a lot more on a non-exclusive basis.

Nobody knows for sure what the pricing would be like for a non-exclusive deal, but it does seem pretty clear that these $20 year-over-year price hikes plus the Superfan charge are DirecTV's way of recouping the enormous rights fee it pays for that exclusive deal. Remember, the reason Sunday Ticket was exclusive to begin with is that cable didn't have the capacity to carry it at the time. When Sunday Ticket first became available in 1994, I was on a 35-channel cable system that couldn't have carried it if it wanted to. It was also offered on C-band at the time.

When I first signed up for Sunday Ticket at $199 in 2003, it seemed like a bargain. Now the price has gotten so high that I'm about ready to just chuck it and switch my allegiance to the local market team, where I wouldn't have to put up with any of this nonsense. I could save myself a lot of money that way and not have to fuss with that Superfan nonsense any longer.

How do you switch your allegiance? If you're a fan of one team all of your life can you just say "I think I'll pull for a different team this year"? I live in SoCal and have been a Steeler fan since I was 10 and living in Pittsburgh. I love the whole NFL but I wear black and gold on Sundays. Sunday Ticket is the greatest thing I have ever seen on TV and worth every penny.

[Satelliteracer]

Satelliteracer, I hope the folks DirecTV realize how fed up some of us are getting. I originally signed up for DirecTV specifically because of the Sunday Ticket package, but the year-after-year $20 increases plus the absurd SuperFan fee have made it so exorbitant that I'm about ready to dump it, and DirecTV with it. It seems pretty clear that DirecTV is willing to pay just about any price to keep the deal exclusive and will gouge subscribers with these repeated $20 price hikes, knowing they can't get the package elsewhere. It's time for either the NFL to take the package away from them or for Congress to outlaw these exclusive deals.

There are a lot of us who also don't appreciate the fact that while we pay these fees like Superfan, anyone who wants something for nothing can get it by just calling in repeatedly until one of the CSRs give them a credit. It really isn't any way to treat paying customers. I hope DirecTV also realizes that most of what I pay roughly $125 a month for I could get for the price of an OTA attena and a $20 Netflix subscription. For that matter, I could get a video feed of an out-of-market NFL game for a lot less than DirecTV is charging. So keep treating customers this way and DirecTV will get exactly what it deserves - subscribers leaving it in droves.

Do you realize how much money D* has to pay the NFL each year? And that amount goes up every year. That might be the reason why the prices increase each season for customers. Just saying

[dcowboy7]

Do you realize how much money D* has to pay the NFL each year?

current contract is $3.5 billion for 5 years.

[Tom Robertson]

To my knowledge, the ratings do take into account people watching the Sunday Ticket feeds. Ratings are measured for all channels, not just the network affiliates. Eyeballs are eyeballs, whether they are watching the CBS feed on a local station or one of the Sunday Ticket channels. Advertisers care how many people are watching their commercials, not what channels they are watching on.

Um... Network adsales might be measured across Sunday Ticket, but local ads are not. That is purely local eyeballs, because DIRECTV gets adslots when carrying channels; including Sunday Ticket.

That is where the issue comes in play for the affiliates, reduced ad revenue.

NFL-ST does two things. It grows the pie (more people watch more games, giving a larger money pot) but also adjusts who gets what share of the pie. The NFL's goal is to grow the whole pie without sacrificing too much any one part of the pie.

Peace,
Tom

[bonscott87]

If I wanted to buy EI, I could do so for $159. It has been the same price the last two years. It wouldn't make any sense for me to wait until that price expired and pay $199 instead. I haven't checked to see how many games are in HD in this area with Comcast (probably not as many as DirecTV offers), but I know a lot of them are HD and you don't need Superfan to get the HD games. So it's $159 for EI compared to $350 for Sunday Ticket and Superfan. That's a big difference no matter how you slice it.

Ahhhh, but most people aren't you. :)

In the links I provided to you last year indicated that Comcast did early bird of EI for $159 while most other cablers and DirecTV did early bird of $169 or $179. So Comcast ran a sale of $10 for about 3 weeks (according to the article I posted). DirecTV also does autorenew at the early bird (or even cheaper) price, unsure about if cable does.

As for Superfan, you can't even compare the amount of HD on DirecTV vs. cable. Cable doesn't have hardly any games in HD. DirecTV has *all* the ones produced in HD available. I read the forums. There are many, many people that are EI subs that switched to DirecTV last year to get more HD games. Same goes for Center Ice. Cable doesn't even come close to the number of HD games. So DirecTV feels they can upcharge for HD games on EI. I don't like it any more then anyone else.

Again, compare apples to apples and not all this early bird stuff. And if you want to compare early birds then compare them both. If you have Comcast and were lucky enough to get in on their couple week window at $159 and get all of 10 HD games a week and are happy with that, rock on. But let's get real here, the price is $199 for EI. Cable gives you few HD games. DirecTV has the SF add-on for $50 which gives you virtually all HD games produced. Sunday Ticket was $279 regular price. And for $100 you get all HD games. Again, not making up these numbers here. But lets not get all confused because you got a deal that lasted 2-3 weeks and has virtually no HD games in comparison. Apples to apples please.

And that will be the end of my comments on this.

[jefbal99]

An additional note on the NBA LP, NHL CI and MLB EI HD games from the cable providers...

They all come from InDemand (the major cable cos own it...) They have two channels that they use for these HD feeds, one is called GameHD and the other is TeamHD. These channels will show two games on a given night, maybe three rarely.

Indemand NHL CI Schedule (http://www.indemand.com/sports/nhl/nhl_hd_schedule.pdf?090109164301889)
Indemand NBA LP Schedule (http://www.indemand.com/sports/nba/nba_hd_schedule.pdf?090106094610249)

I can say with 100% confidence that these channels are not carried by every MSO on every headend.

That is a major reason I switched to D*. Comcast (at the time I had spoken directly with Bill Connors who was the head of midwest Operations) had no intentions of adding either of those channels as their bandwidth was completely tapped and the demand didn't require the supply.

Also, typically an MSO will share the HD feeds for these TeamHD and GameHD on a single HD Channel. What I typically saw was alternating nights of NBA LP HD and NHL CI HD.

So if D* wants to charge a few dollars more for either of these packages, then I have no issue with it at all just based on the HD coverage. Beyond that, they have the ability to show both the home team and away team feeds (and HD when available) whereas InDemand only uses one feed for a game.

I'm not sure how InDemand handles MLB EI for HD, with no NHL CI or NBA LP, they have more flexibility with the HD games, but once again only showing 2-3 games per day is well below what D* provides. Once again D* has home and away feeds and HD for both when available.

[Red Dog]

The NFL is all about keeping a tight supply on its product. I'd be shocked if DirecTV doesn't retain the package, which sucks because the cost will be obscene. Also, I believe the OTA contracts run beyond the current ST contract so those would likely have to be redone were the NFL to open up ST to far more potential subscribers.

[dcowboy7]

Also, I believe the OTA contracts run beyond the current ST contract so those would likely have to be redone were the NFL to open up ST to far more potential subscribers.

current contract expires after seasons:

2010 DirecTV
2011 Fox, CBS
2012 NBC
2014 ESPN

[Tom Robertson]

Players 2009, 2010, and 2011...

[rcoleman111]

Do you realize how much money D* has to pay the NFL each year? And that amount goes up every year. That might be the reason why the prices increase each season for customers. Just saying


...which is exactly the point I've been making in response to these ridiculous posts claiming DirecTV's exclusive deal for Sunday Ticket doesn't make it more expensive for subscribers. They are willing to pay just about any price to keep the deal exclusive. In order to recoup as much of the cost as possible, they are hiking the price by $20 a year (and tacking on the $99 Superfan) in order to avoid mass cancellations.

The problem with that strategy is that it is alienating a lot of DirecTV's customers, myself included. There was a time when I heaped praise on DirecTV as a terrific TV service. Now I see them as a bunch of gougers who really don't deserve my business. So I'm thinking of chucking the Sunday Ticket and probably DirecTV as well. I may decide to just skip these expensive TV services and put up an OTA antenna. I can still get the vast majority of programming I watch, and in better-quality HD than what DirecTV has to offer.

I paid $350 last year for Sunday Ticket and Superfan, but I can state with 100% certainty that I won't be paying that much this year. I'm going to e-mail them a one-time offer. They can have $279 or whatever this year's renewal price is or they can have $0 from me. If they want the $99 Superfan, then I'll stick to free OTA games and keep my $279. See ya later, DirecTV.

[dcowboy7]

So I'm thinking of chucking the Sunday Ticket and probably DirecTV as well.

"bu-bye" (david spadeish)

[DCSholtis]

Players 2009, 2010, and 2011...

Possible lockout looming in 2010.......

[FLWingNut]

The original point I was responding to was the feeling that a non-exclusive ST package would make it less expensive. My point is, that hasn't happened with other packages. NHL CI is the same on Dish and DirectTv. I haven't checked InDemand, but I willing to bet it's the same. If non-exclusive is cheaper, why aren't providers "competing" on price with this package? What do they all charge the same? Don't the leagues set the price points on these packages?

I don't get ST because I think it's ridiculously overpriced, so I got no dog in this fight. I'm just not sure that non-exclusivity is the panacea some think it is.

[bonscott87]

The original point I was responding to was the feeling that a non-exclusive ST package would make it less expensive. My point is, that hasn't happened with other packages. NHL CI is the same on Dish and DirectTv. I haven't checked InDemand, but I willing to bet it's the same. If non-exclusive is cheaper, why aren't providers "competing" on price with this package? What do they all charge the same? Don't the leagues set the price points on these packages?

I don't get ST because I think it's ridiculously overpriced, so I got no dog in this fight. I'm just not sure that non-exclusivity is the panacea some think it is.

You are exactly correct.

Center Ice, Extra Innings and League Pass are all the exact same price on all providers that offer it. The only variations on that might be someone offering a cheaper "early bird" deal like Comcast did for Extra Innings last year (it was $10 cheaper then others for about 2-3 weeks).
And the price goes up every year, by the same amount, on all providers. I remember paying $79 for Center Ice a few years ago. Now it's nearly $100 more.

If/when Sunday Ticket is on both cable/InDemand and DirecTV the price will again be exactly the same on both. And anyone that thinks the price will go *down* is frankly a fool and lives in a fantasy land. Perhaps the price will "freeze" that first year, but it will then start going up every year like the other sports. Perhaps if we're lucky it would slow down to $10 a year instead of $20 a year for the increase and *maybe* DirecTV would lower their price on Superfan or eliminate it. However, history shows that they still charge for Superfan on Extra Innings and cable doesn't have it. So I would then think that DirecTV is still going to charge for a Superfan package. Unless they finally decide to drop the charge completely, which we all would rejoice. But so far history says they won't.

So perhaps it will increase at a lower rate and if that's true then that would be good obviously.

I honestly hope it goes to cable, again it would open up more options for me (and all of us). But I hold no views that it would actually lower the price and save me money.

[Tom Robertson]

In the Multichannel Video space, "Supply and Demand" are almost meaningless terms. The economics are completely different.

So if the market will bear $350/yr for NFL but only $200/yr for EI, that is the current value.

Adding a whole lotta demand (ie via other MVPD outlets) doesn't change the fact that the market apparently thinks $350 is the price. Price won't go down.

Ok, so one could argue that the NFL doesn't want all the money it could get from charging $350 per person when it has that many more people to sell it to. Apparently the NFL players and owners think they make enough, I guess is the logic. :)

Obviously the per head cost won't drop until the market says no. And adding more demand makes it less likely the market will say no. The pie gets bigger, not smaller. Price won't go down.

One other theory is that DIRECTV makes so much margin from the exclusive NFL ST, that competition will drive the price down. Yet we also have many people saying NFL ST is a loss leader and DIRECTV loses money on NFL-ST. (I don't imply that these are the same people, just there are some who feel that way as well.) Since I do not have sufficient details about this, my best guess is that breaking up the pie (even tho it does get bigger) DIRECTV won't be able to reduce the price. Certainly not the $150/year or $100/year people think it will drop. DIRECTV's margin just isn't that big. So, again, price won't go down.

I suppose one other theory is that with many more customers, the sunk costs are shared by more people so the price will go down. This goes back to the NFL will generously leave money on the table. Face it, the price won't go down.

Now, if the NFL really screws up and destroys the value of their product, yes, the price will go down. Lockouts and strikes could very easily piss off enough people that they won't pay to watch the rich fighting with the rich. The value could fall rather quickly.

Unfortunately, the price might just as quickly jump back up in a couple years.

Personally, as I've said before, the best hope for us the customer is different packages that are interesting and affordable to more people. Let the pie really grow again so more people are spending less. But todate the NFL hasn't had to face that market reality and so I don't think they're interested yet.

As always, things will be interesting. Thankfully, as the NFL ST goes up, my income has gone up faster. I just need to keep that trend going. :)

Peace,
Tom

[dcowboy7]

Yet we also have many people saying NFL ST is a loss leader and DIRECTV loses money on NFL-ST.

its impossible to really know if its a loss leader since bars, clubs etc. pay by their seating capacity so how can anyone really tell how much $$ directv is getting from them.

[alevine1986]

...which is exactly the point I've been making in response to these ridiculous posts claiming DirecTV's exclusive deal for Sunday Ticket doesn't make it more expensive for subscribers. They are willing to pay just about any price to keep the deal exclusive. In order to recoup as much of the cost as possible, they are hiking the price by $20 a year (and tacking on the $99 Superfan) in order to avoid mass cancellations.

The problem with that strategy is that it is alienating a lot of DirecTV's customers, myself included. There was a time when I heaped praise on DirecTV as a terrific TV service. Now I see them as a bunch of gougers who really don't deserve my business. So I'm thinking of chucking the Sunday Ticket and probably DirecTV as well. I may decide to just skip these expensive TV services and put up an OTA antenna. I can still get the vast majority of programming I watch, and in better-quality HD than what DirecTV has to offer.

I paid $350 last year for Sunday Ticket and Superfan, but I can state with 100% certainty that I won't be paying that much this year. I'm going to e-mail them a one-time offer. They can have $279 or whatever this year's renewal price is or they can have $0 from me. If they want the $99 Superfan, then I'll stick to free OTA games and keep my $279. See ya later, DirecTV.

I had both ST and EI in 2008, had the early bird for both, and free SF for both. The price difference was $80 ($249 for ST, $169 for EI). While it is lower for EI (EI is 2/3 the price of ST), it does make sense, since the NFL is a lot more popular than MLB. It seems in most of your comparisons in this thread, you've haven't faily compared these packages. You've compared Comcast's promotional EI price without SF to the full ST price with SF. I would think you'd need to do price comparisons like so to get apples to apples...

ST full price with SF vs EI full price with SF ($378/$249)
ST early bird with SF vs EI early bird with SF ($348/$219)
ST full price without SF vs EI full price without SF ($279/$199)
ST early bird without SF vs EI early bird without SF($249/$169)

[Red Dog]

Personally, as I've said before, the best hope for us the customer is different packages that are interesting and affordable to more people. Let the pie really grow again so more people are spending less. But todate the NFL hasn't had to face that market reality and so I don't think they're interested yet.



What would be nice is if they had options:
1. RZC only
2. A team subscription
3. Every game (present-day sunday ticket)
4. Every game + SF (with enhancements such as make-your-own 4-game (full screen) channel)

[rcoleman111]

Ahhhh, but most people aren't you. :)

In the links I provided to you last year indicated that Comcast did early bird of EI for $159 while most other cablers and DirecTV did early bird of $169 or $179. So Comcast ran a sale of $10 for about 3 weeks (according to the article I posted). DirecTV also does autorenew at the early bird (or even cheaper) price, unsure about if cable does.

As for Superfan, you can't even compare the amount of HD on DirecTV vs. cable. Cable doesn't have hardly any games in HD. DirecTV has *all* the ones produced in HD available. I read the forums. There are many, many people that are EI subs that switched to DirecTV last year to get more HD games. Same goes for Center Ice. Cable doesn't even come close to the number of HD games. So DirecTV feels they can upcharge for HD games on EI. I don't like it any more then anyone else.

Again, compare apples to apples and not all this early bird stuff. And if you want to compare early birds then compare them both. If you have Comcast and were lucky enough to get in on their couple week window at $159 and get all of 10 HD games a week and are happy with that, rock on. But let's get real here, the price is $199 for EI. Cable gives you few HD games. DirecTV has the SF add-on for $50 which gives you virtually all HD games produced. Sunday Ticket was $279 regular price. And for $100 you get all HD games. Again, not making up these numbers here. But lets not get all confused because you got a deal that lasted 2-3 weeks and has virtually no HD games in comparison. Apples to apples please.


The facts are clear. If I wanted EI, I could get it from Comcast for $159. There are a lot of cable companies, so it stands to reason that not all are charging the same. But it isn't going up $20 a year like Sunday Ticket, even on DirecTV. And while it's true DirecTV has more HD on EI, it's also true that even on DirecTV the price isn't going up as fast as Sunday Ticket. Even if I bought EI from DirecTV, I would be paying a total of $229, compared to the $350 it cost me last year for Sunday Ticket.

You've claimed on the one hand that Sunday Ticket hasn't gone up any faster than any other sports packages and isn't any more expensive. On the other hand, you claim it's more expensive because football is more popular. So which is it, more expensive or not more expensive. Or do you just make stuff up as it pops into your head?

You've posted the same baloney a number of times now. DirecTV's exclusive deal doesn't make the package more expensive to subscriber. The NFL wants to sell a package for hundreds of dollars but doesn't want many people to subscribe to it. The network contracts would become nearly worthless if cable carried Sunday Ticket. You can post this same nonsense as many times as you like and will still nonsense. And you will still be called out on it every single time. So if want to make yourself look silly, keep it up. After all, it's a message board and you're an anonymous poster. New thread, same baloney. Posted again, debunked again.



And that will be the end of my comments on this.

And once again, when confronted with the facts...

[rcoleman111]

;)


All I can say after reading this thread is that there are many incorrect statements about the networks, affiliates, exclusivity, etc. It will all play out and Tom, yes I think you may just be dead on correct.


Still waiting for you to provide any substantiation for this claim. If you're going make statements like this, you need to be prepared to back them up. You like to come into this forum acting like a DirecTV insider and authoritative voice, which is easy to do in an anonymous forum. I'd be willing to bet you're either a low-level DirecTV employee or a CSR. My money in on CSR, and we know how accurate the information we get from CSRs can be.

[Stuart Sweet]

Mr. Coleman,

I can vouch for satelliteracer, and if you read his prior posts, you will find that his information is always good.

[Piratefan98]

Mr. Coleman,

I can vouch for satelliteracer, and if you read his prior posts, you will find that his information is always good.

And I, even as a frequent critic of DirecTV (particularly on the lack of new national HD), will also vouch for Satelliteracer. His information is always dead-on. He's clearly not a CSR. The guy is DEFINITELY in the know, and it's pretty cool that he's willing to share information with us here.

Jeff

[rcoleman111]

Mr. Coleman,

I can vouch for satelliteracer, and if you read his prior posts, you will find that his information is always good.

If his comments are dead on, then he should be able to substantiate is claim that there are "many incorrect statements" in this thread.

[jefbal99]

Still waiting for you to provide any substantiation for this claim. If you're going make statements like this, you need to be prepared to back them up. You like to come into this forum acting like a DirecTV insider and authoritative voice, which is easy to do in an anonymous forum. I'd be willing to bet you're either a low-level DirecTV employee or a CSR. My money in on CSR, and we know how accurate the information we get from CSRs can be.

If his comments are dead on, then he should be able to substantiate is claim that there are "many incorrect statements" in this thread.

Have you ever considered the fact that due to his position at DirecTV, he is not able to "lay his cards" for all to see? In any contract there are significant privacy issues and non public negotiations. Why would D* put all their information on the table in a forum like this when we are talking about billion dollar contract deals. The Mods here trust him, so you should too.

I wouldn't want SatRacer to risk his job over a silly disagreement in a forum.

The fact that he gives us the info that he does is amazing.

[rcoleman111]

I had both ST and EI in 2008, had the early bird for both, and free SF for both. The price difference was $80 ($249 for ST, $169 for EI). While it is lower for EI (EI is 2/3 the price of ST), it does make sense, since the NFL is a lot more popular than MLB. It seems in most of your comparisons in this thread, you've haven't faily compared these packages. You've compared Comcast's promotional EI price without SF to the full ST price with SF. I would think you'd need to do price comparisons like so to get apples to apples...

ST full price with SF vs EI full price with SF ($378/$249)
ST early bird with SF vs EI early bird with SF ($348/$219)
ST full price without SF vs EI full price without SF ($279/$199)
ST early bird without SF vs EI early bird without SF($249/$169)

OK, look at it this way. I paid $350 for ST. If I wanted EI, I would have paid $179 + $50 = $229. That's a lot of difference. Bonscott is claiming there is little difference in price, while at the same citing football's greater popularity as the reason for the difference in price. It's one or the other -either the packages are comparably priced or they aren't. It's pretty clear from these numbers that they aren't. If you want to claim it's because football is more popular, that's fine, but why were they priced about the same just a few years ago?

The facts are clear. DirecTV will do just about anything to keep the package away from cable, even if that means gouging longtime subscribers. To keep the package exclusive, they have to pay as much as the NFL could get from a non-exclusive deal. The only way to recoup those costs is by passing it on to subscribers. Do the arithmetic - how much per subscriber does it cost for a $700M per year package? DirecTV doesn't give out the subscriber numbers, but it's believed to be in the neighborhood of 15% of DirecTV's subcribers. The cost is something in the vicinity of $350 per subscriber if those numbers are accurate.

[rcoleman111]

Have you ever considered the fact that due to his position at DirecTV, he is not able to "lay his cards" for all to see? In any contract there are significant privacy issues and non public negotiations. Why would D* put all their information on the table in a forum like this when we are talking about billion dollar contract deals. The Mods here trust him, so you should too.

I wouldn't want SatRacer to risk his job over a silly disagreement in a forum.

The fact that he gives us the info that he does is amazing.

I trust what I can verify myself, not what anonymous posters in a message board are saying. The moderators have been known to post incorrect information at times, so I don't have a high level of confidence in what they say unless I can verify it through other sources.

On that note, I'm signing off the forum for good. It's been nice chatting with all of you. Moderators: Please deactivate my account.

[bonscott87]

And once again, when confronted with the facts...

LOL. Might want to read the thread more carefully. Only one getting dubunked is you. :lol:

[davidatl14]

LOL. Might want to read the thread more carefully. Only one getting dubunked is you. :lol:

+1

Coleman debunked repeatedly, becomes bitter.Hopefully he can stick to his intentions and sign off for good.

[Ken S]

My prediction:

1. The annual cost of NFL ST is going to continue to go up.
2. The NFL will find a way to bring in more revenue from their TV/Video contracts. We also shouldn't forget that their own NFL Network and their NFL streaming online is going to be playing a bigger part. So, if continuing to allow DirecTV to have an exclusive deal is going to net them more money in total they'll do it...if not they won't.

[bonscott87]

So, if continuing to allow DirecTV to have an exclusive deal is going to net them more money in total they'll do it...if not they won't.

:biggthump

That is and always has been and always will be the correct answer. The NFL if anything knows how to market their product and make the most money and they won't ever leave money on the table. If they figure out a way to make more money and that includes Sunday Ticket on cable then it most certainly will be.

[Tomar]

I was just in a Verizon store and the guy told me that manager acknowledged that Verizon will carry Sunday Ticket next year. I have not been able to confirm this rumor. Has anyone heard similar lately?

[cariera]

I was just in a Verizon store and the guy told me that manager acknowledged that Verizon will carry Sunday Ticket next year. I have not been able to confirm this rumor. Has anyone heard similar lately?

No way, no how, no dice. Directv is the exclusive provider of the NFLST for television thru 2010, I believe.

Now if your talking about getting highlights or games through your phone, well I just don't know about that.:)

[Shades228]

I don't think there will be another exclusivity agreement again for sports. You can thank John Kerry for helping set a precedence with MLB EI. Now the other content providers will call foul after D* pays more then they all want to in order to keep it exclusive.

I also see the NFL following in MLB's footsteps and turning NFL network into what the RZC is on Sundays. If they do that and then can't negotiate for a game mix I think the SF package will disappear as well.

The main thing is I don't think NFLST will return to what it is now after this contract expires.

[bonscott87]

I was just in a Verizon store and the guy told me that manager acknowledged that Verizon will carry Sunday Ticket next year. I have not been able to confirm this rumor. Has anyone heard similar lately?

LOL. Yea, they'll say anything to get you to sign up. Charter has been telling me for 10 years that they will have Sunday Ticket "next year". Yea right! :)

[zimm7778]

My father to this day swears up and down Brighthouse cable carries NFL Sunday Ticket. I have told him over and over no they don't, he doesn't know what he is talking about, and that cable has never had it yet he keeps on telling me they do. The funniest part is BH doesn't even have NFL Network, much less NFL ST.

[Msguy]

If my memory serves me correctly the whole reason that NFL Sunday Ticket is not on cable is because years ago when Comcast Spectacor (At That Time) Now the Current Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia came onto the scene and started broadcasting the Phillies and the 76ers exclusively to cable they didn't want it to be on Satellite (DirecTv and Dish Network) So NFL Sunday Ticket signs a deal to keep The NFL Sunday Ticket Exclusive to Satellite only. Is that how it went or am i wrong? Anyways I wish the 2 could come to a deal. I Love My DirecTv and have loved it since i've had it way back since 1997. I think it's time for the 2 companies to come to an agreement and allow each provider to have there product. It would benefit everyone if Cable were able to have Sunday Ticket and Satellite to have Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia. This cat and mouse game has gone on to long and some kind of agreement should get done so everyone can benefit from these programs.

[dcowboy7]

If my memory serves me correctly the whole reason that NFL Sunday Ticket is not on cable is because years ago when Comcast Spectacor (At That Time) Now the Current Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia came onto the scene and started broadcasting the Phillies and the 76ers exclusively to cable they didn't want it to be on Satellite (DirecTv and Dish Network) So NFL Sunday Ticket signs a deal to keep The NFL Sunday Ticket Exclusive to Satellite only. Is that how it went or am i wrong? .

no....cable was $$ outbid by directv.

[Tom Robertson]

Depends on which timetable. Cable has been outbid and cable has also not bothered to come to the table. (Perhaps felt the cost wasn't worth it even after promising they would make it happen.)

This will be an interesting contract cycle. But aren't they all? :)

Cheers,
Tom

[Shades228]

Just to clarify a couple of things.

The reason that D* got exclusivity that the NFL didn't want originally was not because they paid $$ it's because D* is a national company. Cable companies are regional so not everyone in the us would have the option. With D* they got tons of cash and they didn't exclude anyone who wanted to get it.

Most cable companies at this point don't see the need for the NFLST. Most of the people who want it have already switched. They wouldn't really gain enough to get what they would have to pay for it.

VZN I could see making a huge bid for it but again I think the NFL would drop it's exclusivity due to VZN having such a small footprint. VZN has already proven they'll spend insane ammounts of money to try and make FIOS successful. Remember the free HD tv's they were giving away the first year of roll out?

[Crimson]

Whats the cheapest you can get ST for? Been a subscriber to D* for 5 years but never had ST.. now that I moved to Tampa, I need to watch my Packers.. :) I assume they might give a better deal to someone who has not had it before?

[Shades228]

I believe I read somewhere, news article ages ago, that the NFLST had a clause in it from Fox that limited the number of subscribers as well. I think it would be obvious that if the NFLST was say $150 that they would have more subs to it that would make up for the cost. I'll see if I can dig up the article again. Simple math would say that if you made it cheaper more people would sub to it and therefor keep the revenue. However if it was too cheap and not enough subbed to it then you wouldn't make as much. It would be a balancing act.

[carlsbad_bolt_fan]

Just to clarify a couple of things.

The reason that D* got exclusivity that the NFL didn't want originally was not because they paid $$ it's because D* is a national company. Cable companies are regional so not everyone in the us would have the option. With D* they got tons of cash and they didn't exclude anyone who wanted to get it.

Most cable companies at this point don't see the need for the NFLST. Most of the people who want it have already switched. They wouldn't really gain enough to get what they would have to pay for it.

VZN I could see making a huge bid for it but again I think the NFL would drop it's exclusivity due to VZN having such a small footprint. VZN has already proven they'll spend insane ammounts of money to try and make FIOS successful. Remember the free HD tv's they were giving away the first year of roll out?

I can't find the link, but D* did far outbid everyone for NFL-ST.

And it is exclusively a D* production. The NFL Red-Zone and Short Cuts are D* productions.

Now if E* were to outbid D* next time, that would make it interesting.

[joshjr]

I can't find the link, but D* did far outbid everyone for NFL-ST.

And it is exclusively a D* production. The NFL Red-Zone and Short Cuts are D* productions.

Now if E* were to outbid D* next time, that would make it interesting.
That wont happen but it would be interesting. I would predict alot of people breaking contract and others preparing to file law suits. I would jump ship and I really would not want to. It would be awsome for me though. I would then get NFL ST and locals both. That being said I still perfer D*

[paulman182]

I can't find the link, but D* did far outbid everyone for NFL-ST.

And it is exclusively a D* production. The NFL Red-Zone and Short Cuts are D* productions.

Now if E* were to outbid D* next time, that would make it interesting.

No way that will happen. Dish Network is not that interested in sports. And they don't seem too interested in paying for regular channels, much less ST.

[braven]

I was just in a Verizon store and the guy told me that manager acknowledged that Verizon will carry Sunday Ticket next year. I have not been able to confirm this rumor. Has anyone heard similar lately?


Funny, 10 years ago I was in a local satellite installation store in Lebanon, PA and was told that the NFLST would be on E* next year. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. It's really no different than a CSR saying whatever they need to-to get a new customer.

[braven]

Whats the cheapest you can get ST for? Been a subscriber to D* for 5 years but never had ST.. now that I moved to Tampa, I need to watch my Packers.. :) I assume they might give a better deal to someone who has not had it before?


If you wait until the 3rd quarter (that's when they give the sweet NFLST package to new customers) you can probably get it. I called and asked nicely for the new customer promotion and got it without a problem. I made it clear that I wasn't threatening to cancel and that I was a happy customer. They even thru in the Red Zone package. It did however restart my 2 year commitment. With that said, after having it last season... there's no way I'd be without it again. Not having to watch the local teams week in and week out is priceless. The wifey loved it too!

[dcowboy7]

Funny, 10 years ago I was in a local satellite installation store in Lebanon, PA and was told that the NFLST would be on E* next year. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. It's really no different than a CSR saying whatever they need to-to get a new customer.

it cant go to verizon....directv has it exclusively thru the 2010 season.

[WestDC]

it cant go to verizon....directv has it exclusively thru the 2010 season.

It can go to verizon and still be controlled by D* Verizon is a D* reseller over it's fios network so any "NEW" ST deal will also include them at a Additional cost (for Verizon).

I enjoy Super Fan of ST the best being a Redskin Fan, their preformance has a let a lot to be disired :lol:

REDZONE is the best NO COMMERCIALS and NO Blackouts ALL the action from around the NFL. I keep the Redskin game on the PIP and the redzone is on at my house 1pm--7PM every sunday.

Having been a Long time redskin Season ticket holder, To hear folks complain about the price (ST) is a real LAFF!!!! They have know idea what the Season Ticket Cost or how much for a beer and soda if you added all that up for 8 games plus, Fuel and your time to and from it's really priced right.

A lot cheaper than going to the game and I can watch them in the nude ;)

[braven]

REDZONE is the best NO COMMERCIALS and NO Blackouts ALL the action from around the NFL. I keep the Redskin game on the PIP and the redzone is on at my house 1pm--7PM every sunday.



You've got that right. I love the REDZONE channel. Whenever there wasn't a game I wanted to give 100% attention to, I'd watch the REDZONE. No commercials is just awesome.