Attempting to watch 1080p trailer

[drf23]

Hey everyone.

I am trying to demo the 1080p trailer on a friends house connected to a Sharp 46D62U 1080p TV.

When i go to play the trailer the TV gives me an incompatible signal error.

Any idea?

[Richierich]

If you get a bad signal then hit the Info Button to Enable 1080P.

Some HD Displays can't display 1080P/24 fps but can only display 1080P/60 fps.

Directv will only deliver 1080P in a 1080P/24 fps Resolution.

[drf23]

Where would it say that?
Here are the specifications for the TV.

Screen Size: 46-inch Class (45-63/64” Diagonal)
Pixel Resolution: 1920 x 1080
Brightness: 450cd/m2
Viewing Angles: 176º H x 176º V
Lamp Life: 60,000 hours
Audio System: 10W + 10W
Tuning System: ATSC/QAM/NTSC
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Response Time: 6ms
HDMI Input: 5 (1080p compatible)
HD Component Input: 2 (1080p compatible)
PC Input: 15-pin D-sub x 1
S-Video Input: 1
Composite Video Input: 2
RS-232C: 9-pin x 1
Audio Inputs (L/R): 3
Backlight System: 3-wavelength
Cabinet Color: High Gloss Black
Table Stand: Included and removable
Power Consumption AC: 245W
Power Source: 120V, 60 Hz
Limited Warranty: 1 year parts and labor from date of purchase
Dimensions--TV with Stand and Speakers: 43-53/64 inches x 30-3/64 inches x 12-13/16 inches
Dimensions--TV with Speakers only: 43-53/64 inches x 27-47/64 inches x 3-29/32 inches
TV Weight with Stand and Speakers: 52.9 lbs.
TV Weight with Speakers only: 41.9 lbs.

[waynebtx]

Everything i have found on this set says its 1080P/60 no ref to any 1080P/24 at all.

[drf23]

Wow - that stinks. Do they expect people who have made investments in HD TV's to go out and purchase another one? Or will the come around and adapt to the field?

[Michael D'Angelo]

Wow - that stinks. Do they expect people who have made investments in HD TV's to go out and purchase another one? Or will the come around and adapt to the field?

The problem is the chip in the HR2x's can not do 1080p/60. I have the same problem with my TV.

[rahlquist]

Wow - that stinks. Do they expect people who have made investments in HD TV's to go out and purchase another one? Or will the come around and adapt to the field?
No DirecTV designed the HR to the 1080p spec, if you have issue with the lack of /24 support you should take it up with the manufacturer of the TV (they may even have a firmware update that addresses it).

1080p/60 was just the easiest way for tv manufs to go. They went that was an ignored the /24 until somewhat recently.

Keep in mind too that until recently DirecTV made no noises about 1080p, now that they do they are perfectly clear (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/faqPage.jsp?assetId=3490041 see What effect does this have on picture quality?) that 1080p/24 is their standard. If someone bought a TV prior to DirecTV's announcement of support for 1080p then they took a risk, whether it paid off or not is up to their judgement.

[dettxw]

Hey everyone.

I am trying to demo the 1080p trailer on a friends house connected to a Sharp 46D62U 1080p TV.

When i go to play the trailer the TV gives me an incompatible signal error.

Any idea?A 46D85U and some versions of 46D64U would have done the trick per this link (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155), and even without the video judder induced from the usual 3:2 pulldown done to convert 24 frame film mode to display on a standard 60Hz refresh TV.

It's a shame that the friend's TV doesn't even accept the 1080p/24 signal and convert it.

[drf23]

No DirecTV designed the HR to the 1080p spec, if you have issue with the lack of /24 support you should take it up with the manufacturer of the TV (they may even have a firmware update that addresses it).

1080p/60 was just the easiest way for tv manufs to go. They went that was an ignored the /24 until somewhat recently.


:-) This sounds like my company. I work in a VOIP company and we would argue that our homegrown switch followed the SIP spec to the tilt and when something didnt work, it was the off-the-shelf-vendor who ignored the spec. We quickly learned that the spec didnt matter as much as what the general public is using.

While the 1080 "spec" (is there an offical RFC or the like) states that hardware should support /24 and /60, most TV's up to now have not supported.

Thus DTV arrogance to not support what the general public has will infuriate consumers who will have to purchase new hardware or not enjoy "true" 1080p

[DogLover]

Thus DTV arrogance to not support what the general public has will infuriate consumers who will have to purchase new hardware or not enjoy "true" 1080p

Perhaps it is not arrogance to only support 1080p/24, when your hardware will not do 1080p/60. Perhaps over 2 years ago they did not predict that they would need a chip that would do 1080p/60.

I don't know what the state of the industry was at the time, was there a chip that they could have put in their DVR's that would have done 1080p/60? If there was, how much did it cost, compared to what they used?

I would think that the worst that you could accuse them of is short-sightedness. And, it might have been impossible for anyone to predict that they would want hardware to do 1080p/60.

[drf23]

Fair enough. Thanks for the forum to voice in. :-)

[BattleZone]

Read this post; it should help clarify the issues:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=146765&highlight=1080p

This one too:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=144894&highlight=1080p

[bonscott87]

1080p/24 has been the "standard" for a while now. Both DirecTV *and* Dish offer 1080p and only support the 24 standard. And as I've read 1080p by other providers will also be 24 only (just as Blu-ray is). Cheap TV's don't support 24 and the very first 1080p sets on the market also don't support 24 simply because they (in my opinion) jumped the gun.

I remember the very first HDTVs with a digital interface had DVI which was very quickly replaced with HDMI to support HDCP. So if you were an early adopter and got DVI only that sucked.

Tis the danger of being an early adopter.

[drf23]

Tis the danger of being an early adopter.

The friend purchased the TV a couple months ago - we are not talking about the 1st HDTV on the market.

[drf23]

Read this post; it should help clarify the issues:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=146765&highlight=1080p

This one too:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=144894&highlight=1080p

EXCELLENT info IIP - thanks!
The problem is (not your fault), it doesnt help my friend. :-(

[bonscott87]

The friend purchased the TV a couple months ago - we are not talking about the 1st HDTV on the market.

Understood, but like I said, the TV manufacturers are still putting out 60 sets because they are cheaper. If you go to Costco or Walmart and get that cheapo Vizio HDTV I highly doubt it's going to support the 24 standard.

Personally I did a *ton* of research on models before making a purchase a couple weeks ago and I made sure that 1080/24 support was in any model I was looking at. Just like I made sure that they were all true 1080p (not 720p) and for LCD's I looked at I made sure they had 120hz support (cheaper ones only have 60hz). Now the Plasma I have from what I understand doesn't really show 1080p/24 natively but it does accept a 24 input and converts it to 60. Thus I can still do the 1080p/24 VOD because it will accept and detect 24.

Basically there is so much going on in terms of features and standards you gotta be educated and not just show up to Wally World and buy the first nice looking set you see. :) Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make fun of your friend or anyone else but trying to get the point across that education is key. Then again I believe it is in any big purchase. I try to become a mini-expert in any big purchase I make, water heater is my next education. ;)

[BattleZone]

The new higher-end Vizios have 120 Hz support, but do NOT refresh 24p content correctly, so just because the panel is capable of alternative refresh rates doesn't guarentee that the implementation of 24p support is correct.

The best way to be sure is to check the list in my linked posts, which list every known TV with proper 24p support.

[V'ger]

Just a reminder, if you are trying to watch DirecTV 1080p material, it will be 24 fps film sourced. A properly working TV will display the 1080p material bit for bit identical as if it was upconverted by the DVR to 1080p/60 or 1080i!

To understand this, you have to understand that DirecTV is transmitting the datastream at 1080p24. Any other resolution/mode will require scaling/conversion inside the DVR. It cannot create additional detail that is not there to begin with.

If the DVR could output 1080p60, it would simply repeat the 24 frames in the signal source more times to reach 60 frames a second. There is no new data.

To display 1080i, the DVR interlaces the 1080p/24 signal and repeats field pairs necessary to get 60 fields per second. A properly working TV will be able to deinterlace and reproduce a bit for bit identical image on a 60Hz panel. The only difference is whether the DVR or the TV does the work.

The advantage of true 1080p24 is that each frame is repeated the same number of times as the next. Newer/better TVs can actually refresh the screen at a multiple of 24 frames per second (48, 72, or 120 Hz). This means each frame in the film is repeated the same number of times, giving a movie theater experience.

TVs that have panels that can only work at 60Hz must repeat frames in a multiple of 3:2 ratio. With a 60 Hz panel, one frame will be displayed more than the next, causing visible hesitation on fast moving pans and end credit scrolls. This is called judder.

Advanced TVs whose panels are capable of 24fps or some multiple can also take a 1080i or 1080p60 signal and do the 3:2 conversion and be visually equivalent to 1080p24, but the set would have 1080p24 capability anyway so it would be better to watch in the native mode to prevent conversion errors.

If you had 1080p60 video-based source material, then indeed 1080p60 would be better and preferable to any other resolution. Unfortunately, don't expect that anytime soon from the satellite companies as that means they have to give up twice the transponder space to send 1080p60, and they are bandwidth limited for the forseeable future. Video on Demand is another possibility and if DVRs supported it, I could see them doing 1080p60 on VOD only.